Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:50 amMac hard!spewed Fext town well before Mac "saw 3". Legit, thinking Mac might be town because of whatever, okay... but you are ignoring my cases. You are finding ways to not listen to me. You are doing the thing that wolves do when they can't sus a person, but can't work with them either. Nothing I say will sway you, and it isn't because you're tunnelled (weither on town or scum).
You're just scum.
The number of holes in this... is huge. Like I can give evidence if need be. Alison is not actually considering mac here. Probably they both wolves, but minimally this is Alison always wolf. Alison always wolf.
When did Mac hardspew Fext town? He only did the townread on Fext after I had already cased Fext.
Go on, show me the holes in the logic.
do you think I'm town still?
I am starting to think you are mafia. You have been engaging in bad faith, claiming there's holes in my logic, and that Mac did something at a certain date, when I look back at the posts and he only townread Fext after I cased Fext. I've been going back and forth with you on this for dozens of posts and you haven't engaged with my logic, while accusing me of not engaging with yours (when I have).
What is the hole in logic? you made posts about Fext before Fext had eyes on him. I even made a snide post towards you asking you if Fext was the D1 miselim because I thought your treatment of Fext was kinda sus. Do you want to bring that up? we can?
"he only townread Fext after I cased Fext"... after you cased him the first or second time? Did his views change the second time you cased Fext? (because his weird read-change but not vote-change happened between the first and second)
I think Mac would have hard defended (as in moved his vote off Fext and voted the counterwagon) Fext if Mac was wolf. The reason I think he would do this is that he saw me tunnelling Fext. If Mac was a wolf, he would have sat back, defended Fext, and counted on me to do the dirty work of burying Fext.
What part of this argument is full of holes/categorically false/whatever you want to call it?
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:07 am
i have decided seanzie is in fact mafia with creature
Lol, good try. I am so pure it is kinda funny. creature meh, me, pure.
you are not pure you are evil and taking refuge in audacity, you have made no good points at all and have instead just insisted in a blunt way that has left no room for reeval, you went into this entire thing with an agenda and the only rational explanation after #5hours is that you are doing this to save creature
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:50 amMac hard!spewed Fext town well before Mac "saw 3". Legit, thinking Mac might be town because of whatever, okay... but you are ignoring my cases. You are finding ways to not listen to me. You are doing the thing that wolves do when they can't sus a person, but can't work with them either. Nothing I say will sway you, and it isn't because you're tunnelled (weither on town or scum).
You're just scum.
The number of holes in this... is huge. Like I can give evidence if need be. Alison is not actually considering mac here. Probably they both wolves, but minimally this is Alison always wolf. Alison always wolf.
When did Mac hardspew Fext town? He only did the townread on Fext after I had already cased Fext.
Go on, show me the holes in the logic.
do you think I'm town still?
I am starting to think you are mafia. You have been engaging in bad faith, claiming there's holes in my logic, and that Mac did something at a certain date, when I look back at the posts and he only townread Fext after I cased Fext. I've been going back and forth with you on this for dozens of posts and you haven't engaged with my logic, while accusing me of not engaging with yours (when I have).
What is the hole in logic? you made posts about Fext before Fext had eyes on him. I even made a snide post towards you asking you if Fext was the D1 miselim because I thought your treatment of Fext was kinda sus. Do you want to bring that up? we can?
"he only townread Fext after I cased Fext"... after you cased him the first or second time? Did his views change the second time you cased Fext? (because his weird read-change but not vote-change happened between the first and second)
I think Mac would have hard defended (as in moved his vote off Fext and voted the counterwagon) Fext if Mac was wolf. The reason I think he would do this is that he saw me tunnelling Fext. If Mac was a wolf, he would have sat back, defended Fext, and counted on me to do the dirty work of burying Fext.
What part of this argument is full of holes/categorically false/whatever you want to call it?
When would Mac have done this? before or after he tied Fext to LC?
i sit here for 5 hours trying to reason with you and every time i explain the reality of the situation you just ignore it and then find something new or worse just continue to say the same shit that i already explained
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:07 am
i have decided seanzie is in fact mafia with creature
Lol, good try. I am so pure it is kinda funny. creature meh, me, pure.
you are not pure you are evil and taking refuge in audacity, you have made no good points at all and have instead just insisted in a blunt way that has left no room for reeval, you went into this entire thing with an agenda and the only rational explanation after #5hours is that you are doing this to save creature
If you sheeped me D1 we would have sufficient votes to kill seanzie too.
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:07 am
i have decided seanzie is in fact mafia with creature
Lol, good try. I am so pure it is kinda funny. creature meh, me, pure.
you are not pure you are evil and taking refuge in audacity, you have made no good points at all and have instead just insisted in a blunt way that has left no room for reeval, you went into this entire thing with an agenda and the only rational explanation after #5hours is that you are doing this to save creature
If you sheeped me D1 we would have sufficient votes to kill seanzie too.
bruh i didn't even know what your reads were on day 1... i basically just like made some snap reads and then came back a few times and shitposted. who was i meant to sheep you on?
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:29 am
It's a matter of how people think, really
If you're gathering early votes as mafia in a game with no PRs in particular I'm sure the very last thing you want is to avoid giving people a fact that may help to lower their suspicion of you. Ergo, I would have found NAA not doing that to have been quite towny.
Basically, it's not a matter of me thinking he'd not have an explanation for why he voted me, but instead just the fact that if he chose to essentially redirect pressure on himself into positive force elsewhere without including a semi-relevant fact in his defense that doesn't actually do anything to help determine anyone's alignment, it would be indicative to me of a focus on solving over self-defense at a time when that would conventionally be completely unnecessary to go out of your way to project.
Considering he did not, and so I have not made any definitive statements on his alignment, I'm confused what you're all up in arms about - even if you disagree with my logic there, I'm not using it to make any actual reads in this game at the moment lol
So you're saying that NAA is town for not defending himself when he could have, because as town he'd care more about solving than defending himself, and as scum he wouldn't care about solving and would only care about defending himself. Except that's a false dichotomy, because as town he could easily go "Well, I voted Mac first, but if you wanna know why I voted Fext, here's why: blah blah".
I'm "up in arms" about your logic because I think it doesn't make sense. You were presenting it as part of your thought process, a conditional you were using to evaluate NAA's alignment. If your thought process/conditional isn't coherent, then I'm inclined to think it was never part of a genuine solving process and was just something you made up to look like you were trying to solve NAA.
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:33 pm
also it's not a nitpick if you're pushing me because "regardless of whether creature is scum or town, you reading him in your townier group is always malicious" to call that out as being gross
he can either be one or the other and you choosing to always ascribe that to pointing towards me being evil is senseless at best and outright malicious itself at worst
[VOTE:
Fext] aubergine
This is nonsense. If you have an incoherent or illogical read on someone, that is suspicious behavior regardless of the alignment of the person you were reading.
It is upon reading this series of posts that a wolf Mac would think "I should just defend Fext for towncred, Alison will clearly do my job for me".
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:07 am
i have decided seanzie is in fact mafia with creature
Lol, good try. I am so pure it is kinda funny. creature meh, me, pure.
you are not pure you are evil and taking refuge in audacity, you have made no good points at all and have instead just insisted in a blunt way that has left no room for reeval, you went into this entire thing with an agenda and the only rational explanation after #5hours is that you are doing this to save creature
If you sheeped me D1 we would have sufficient votes to kill seanzie too.
bruh i didn't even know what your reads were on day 1... i basically just like made some snap reads and then came back a few times and shitposted. who was i meant to sheep you on?
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:07 am
i have decided seanzie is in fact mafia with creature
Lol, good try. I am so pure it is kinda funny. creature meh, me, pure.
you are not pure you are evil and taking refuge in audacity, you have made no good points at all and have instead just insisted in a blunt way that has left no room for reeval, you went into this entire thing with an agenda and the only rational explanation after #5hours is that you are doing this to save creature
If you sheeped me D1 we would have sufficient votes to kill seanzie too.
bruh i didn't even know what your reads were on day 1... i basically just like made some snap reads and then came back a few times and shitposted. who was i meant to sheep you on?
Alison.
but she made big posts that seemed town and i decided to sheep her instead lol
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:11 am
i sit here for 5 hours trying to reason with you and every time i explain the reality of the situation you just ignore it and then find something new or worse just continue to say the same shit that i already explained
meanwhile creature coasting.
Lol good job trying to recycle my fookin' great read on Alison just now (Also shoutout to @Kito because... yeah, good call).
Creature may or may not be coasting, but you being like super scum... kinda think.. I kinda think... yeah...
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:11 am
i sit here for 5 hours trying to reason with you and every time i explain the reality of the situation you just ignore it and then find something new or worse just continue to say the same shit that i already explained
meanwhile creature coasting.
Lol good job trying to recycle my fookin' great read on Alison just now (Also shoutout to @Kito because... yeah, good call).
Creature may or may not be coasting, but you being like super scum... kinda think.. I kinda think... yeah...
i aint recycling shit man i am bleeding my emotions to you but you're being a weiner about it
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:29 am
It's a matter of how people think, really
If you're gathering early votes as mafia in a game with no PRs in particular I'm sure the very last thing you want is to avoid giving people a fact that may help to lower their suspicion of you. Ergo, I would have found NAA not doing that to have been quite towny.
Basically, it's not a matter of me thinking he'd not have an explanation for why he voted me, but instead just the fact that if he chose to essentially redirect pressure on himself into positive force elsewhere without including a semi-relevant fact in his defense that doesn't actually do anything to help determine anyone's alignment, it would be indicative to me of a focus on solving over self-defense at a time when that would conventionally be completely unnecessary to go out of your way to project.
Considering he did not, and so I have not made any definitive statements on his alignment, I'm confused what you're all up in arms about - even if you disagree with my logic there, I'm not using it to make any actual reads in this game at the moment lol
So you're saying that NAA is town for not defending himself when he could have, because as town he'd care more about solving than defending himself, and as scum he wouldn't care about solving and would only care about defending himself. Except that's a false dichotomy, because as town he could easily go "Well, I voted Mac first, but if you wanna know why I voted Fext, here's why: blah blah".
I'm "up in arms" about your logic because I think it doesn't make sense. You were presenting it as part of your thought process, a conditional you were using to evaluate NAA's alignment. If your thought process/conditional isn't coherent, then I'm inclined to think it was never part of a genuine solving process and was just something you made up to look like you were trying to solve NAA.
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:33 pm
also it's not a nitpick if you're pushing me because "regardless of whether creature is scum or town, you reading him in your townier group is always malicious" to call that out as being gross
he can either be one or the other and you choosing to always ascribe that to pointing towards me being evil is senseless at best and outright malicious itself at worst
[VOTE:
Fext] aubergine
This is nonsense. If you have an incoherent or illogical read on someone, that is suspicious behavior regardless of the alignment of the person you were reading.
It is upon reading this series of posts that a wolf Mac would think "I should just defend Fext for towncred, Alison will clearly do my job for me".
1.) why should I believe you're V here?
2.) What do you think of mac's takes before this point?
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am
tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am
tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:29 am
It's a matter of how people think, really
If you're gathering early votes as mafia in a game with no PRs in particular I'm sure the very last thing you want is to avoid giving people a fact that may help to lower their suspicion of you. Ergo, I would have found NAA not doing that to have been quite towny.
Basically, it's not a matter of me thinking he'd not have an explanation for why he voted me, but instead just the fact that if he chose to essentially redirect pressure on himself into positive force elsewhere without including a semi-relevant fact in his defense that doesn't actually do anything to help determine anyone's alignment, it would be indicative to me of a focus on solving over self-defense at a time when that would conventionally be completely unnecessary to go out of your way to project.
Considering he did not, and so I have not made any definitive statements on his alignment, I'm confused what you're all up in arms about - even if you disagree with my logic there, I'm not using it to make any actual reads in this game at the moment lol
So you're saying that NAA is town for not defending himself when he could have, because as town he'd care more about solving than defending himself, and as scum he wouldn't care about solving and would only care about defending himself. Except that's a false dichotomy, because as town he could easily go "Well, I voted Mac first, but if you wanna know why I voted Fext, here's why: blah blah".
I'm "up in arms" about your logic because I think it doesn't make sense. You were presenting it as part of your thought process, a conditional you were using to evaluate NAA's alignment. If your thought process/conditional isn't coherent, then I'm inclined to think it was never part of a genuine solving process and was just something you made up to look like you were trying to solve NAA.
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:33 pm
also it's not a nitpick if you're pushing me because "regardless of whether creature is scum or town, you reading him in your townier group is always malicious" to call that out as being gross
he can either be one or the other and you choosing to always ascribe that to pointing towards me being evil is senseless at best and outright malicious itself at worst
[VOTE:
Fext] aubergine
This is nonsense. If you have an incoherent or illogical read on someone, that is suspicious behavior regardless of the alignment of the person you were reading.
It is upon reading this series of posts that a wolf Mac would think "I should just defend Fext for towncred, Alison will clearly do my job for me".
1.) why should I believe you're V here?
2.) What do you think of mac's takes before this point?
1) Why would Mac act differently if I was W? If I was W with Mac, he'd know for a fact I'd do his job for him. Same logic applies, maybe even more so.
2) The only take I've seriously disagreed with mac on was his townread on Fext, and he was right about that I guess, so... they've been pretty good.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am
tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
What do you mean pre Mac vs post Mac?
"My cases don't involve reflection" is a vague, generic argument that is entirely used to discredit me without specifying the specific parts of my arguments that are wrong or lacking and why they're wrong or lacking. Your repeated insistence on attacking me in this way is why I am starting to scumread you; they don't make sense, they don't fit your town playstyle, and they are esesentially focused on trying to make me look bad more than they're actually engaging with my points.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am
tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
What do you mean pre Mac vs post Mac?
"My cases don't involve reflection" is a vague, generic argument that is entirely used to discredit me without specifying the specific parts of my arguments that are wrong or lacking and why they're wrong or lacking. Your repeated insistence on attacking me in this way is why I am starting to scumread you; they don't make sense, they don't fit your town playstyle, and they are esesentially focused on trying to make me look bad more than they're actually engaging with my points.
your case on Fext before Mac showed up to the thread vs what happend post-Mac showing up to the thread. you conflate this shit with so much agenda and then ignore my points...
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am
tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
I'm not fucking mafia God damn it
If you aren't, then realize what she's doing. Just look at it. Plz.
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am
tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
What do you mean pre Mac vs post Mac?
"My cases don't involve reflection" is a vague, generic argument that is entirely used to discredit me without specifying the specific parts of my arguments that are wrong or lacking and why they're wrong or lacking. Your repeated insistence on attacking me in this way is why I am starting to scumread you; they don't make sense, they don't fit your town playstyle, and they are esesentially focused on trying to make me look bad more than they're actually engaging with my points.
your case on Fext before Mac showed up to the thread vs what happend post-Mac showing up to the thread. you conflate this shit with so much agenda and then ignore my points...
What are the alleged differences in my case on Fext before and after Mac showed up to the thread? Why are those differences relevant?
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am
tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
What do you mean pre Mac vs post Mac?
"My cases don't involve reflection" is a vague, generic argument that is entirely used to discredit me without specifying the specific parts of my arguments that are wrong or lacking and why they're wrong or lacking. Your repeated insistence on attacking me in this way is why I am starting to scumread you; they don't make sense, they don't fit your town playstyle, and they are esesentially focused on trying to make me look bad more than they're actually engaging with my points.
your case on Fext before Mac showed up to the thread vs what happend post-Mac showing up to the thread. you conflate this shit with so much agenda and then ignore my points...
What are the alleged differences in my case on Fext before and after Mac showed up to the thread? Why are those differences relevant?
No! you acknowledge differences but do not CONSIDER MAC!
I don't even know what differences you are referring to, which is why I said "alleged differences". Consider Mac for what? I took his suspicions on Fext into account, and mentioned them by name as being one of the reasons I was so sure on Fext. What the fuck are you even talking about?
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am
tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
What do you mean pre Mac vs post Mac?
"My cases don't involve reflection" is a vague, generic argument that is entirely used to discredit me without specifying the specific parts of my arguments that are wrong or lacking and why they're wrong or lacking. Your repeated insistence on attacking me in this way is why I am starting to scumread you; they don't make sense, they don't fit your town playstyle, and they are esesentially focused on trying to make me look bad more than they're actually engaging with my points.
your case on Fext before Mac showed up to the thread vs what happend post-Mac showing up to the thread. you conflate this shit with so much agenda and then ignore my points...
What are the alleged differences in my case on Fext before and after Mac showed up to the thread? Why are those differences relevant?
I do not feel like you've given me a fair exchange in regards to Fext and Mac. Give me a fair exchange and we can talk. I am not willing to talk otherwise.
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am
tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
I've given you page after page explaining my logic as extensively as humanly possible. If you want to talk, be extremely clear, specific and precise about what it is you want. I've had enough with you throwing vague nonsense at me and pretending it means something and I am scum for not responding to it enough. If you want a fair exchange from me so we can talk, then define it. Tell me what a fair exchange is, and what you want from me. No more "you haven't reflected enough", "you haven't considered the differences", etc. Be specific.
There's nothing that says a fake can't surpass the real thing.
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:48 am
I've given you page after page explaining my logic as extensively as humanly possible. If you want to talk, be extremely clear, specific and precise about what it is you want. I've had enough with you throwing vague nonsense at me and pretending it means something and I am scum for not responding to it enough. If you want a fair exchange from me so we can talk, then define it. Tell me what a fair exchange is, and what you want from me. No more "you haven't reflected enough", "you haven't considered the differences", etc. Be specific.
You don't understand how Mac changed on Fext, and that is telling.
Would you mind doing me a favor and pretending like Mac is scum and I'm right, and letting me know how such a world would look?
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am
tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am
tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
@MacDougall this is going on. Thoughts?
@MacDougall
Why don't you ask someone else dude cuz your posts just read like white noise to me
