GAME OF CHAMPIONS 2021 Endgame (town and 3p win)

[ilario]

fine here’s why I think ur scum

First the whole alison naa thing. It just doesn’t make sense for you to rush that shot, I don’t see you doing that. You’re much more meticulous with handling these things and I feel like town you would want all the info out before you commit to a shot. My issue isn’t that you shot alison, it’s that you rushed the entire procedure. You held the gun shot for the entire day but the moment naa comes out with his claim you arbitrarily decide that he has to rescind his claim by 2:55 or you’re gonna shoot. You weren’t focused on solving him, you weren’t focused on solving alison it felt like your entire focus was on getting naa to confirm that he wasn’t going to rescind his claim. Because by doing so it gives you plausible deniability to shoot a strong villa and set up another villa known to troll to take the fall for it. And then you kept denying blame for it, which imo I found towny at first but it kept happening so much that it wrapped around to being wolfy again. Like you said over and over you didn’t think a role like that would exist, but you specifically designed the EXACT same role in a game you hosted, and whether this is advertised as bastard or not doesn’t disregard the fact that I think you would have taken a few minutes to consider the existence
Of such a role since you yourself hosted a game with it in the game.

I think your claim on d1 from a wolf pov was amazing. You played it perfectly and it felt towny as shit and that’s why I said earlier I applaud you for your d1. But as the game goes on the story with your claim gets muddy. You have a green check on guillo that’s not really a green check? Like idk why would think it’s beneficial to make up a green on guillo, it’s not like he was your top tr so I don’t see the benefit in doing that. I think the way you went about that whole thing felt inconsistent and Nutella noticed that before she died, and I think that’s why she was day vigged over me. I can defs see a world where you’re concerned nutella is about to embark on a classic Nutella tunnel and you wanted that dealt with. Sigs shot was just so sudden and there’s no build up to it so yeah I do think it was a panic shot to get rid of her. Also you later claimed to
Have a vest and again I don’t see why u outed that the time you did. You love being clear, if you kept the info to yourself and someone shot you then you become clear so I don’t see the point of outing the vest when you did, but claiming a vest does give a reason for you to be alive late game. People can ask why isn’t Alexa dead and you can just cos of a vest

I was struggling to come up with a solve last night. I had town cleared alota slots in my head and we reached a point where slots like c4 started to come into question just because we don’t know where else to look. But even when I put slots like c4 or jpic in my poe it just doesn’t feel right to me. And then when I reflected on the other points and I started to build a team around you the game started to make more sense. Suddenly tsp being a wolf made sense too. I don’t think tsp approaches u the way he has this game if ur town and he’s a wolf. But I can defs see alota ur interactions being possible if ur wolves together. Tsp is highpostiing but like 70% of the posts are about you. And yeah I can see a world where scum captain tsp feels obligated to not be a potato this game. And the way u responded to me earlier everytime when I felt like tsp was kinda towny, your responses felt rigid, like you
Knew he’s a wolf and your gameplay has been set on softly bussing/distancing him throughout the game. Like even when I considered that tsp high posting might be clearing for him you said it’s nai because u wolfed with him before but the game we wolfed together he wasn’t even a high poster in the sense he has been this game, so it just feels fabricated.

I’m coming around to guillo
Maybe being town and I think ur approach to him has been pockety. You’ve consistently done a classic scumtell throughout the game in the way you’ve approached his slot but I’m gonna keep what that tell is to myself cos ur wolf game too OP and this tell helped me catch Katze in dvale and generally works on strong wolves. Also I think you perspective slipped earlier in the game when you said the way I was pushing guillo showed that I lacked tmi on guillo.

You also have this thing where your trs in general are more nuanced imo and thought out than your srs. Like I think people with super strong villa games like you and ladd when you roll wolf you tend to have great towncases on other town, good wolf cases on other wolves but your pushes onto townies seems to be lacking and when they do come they generally feel kinda reachy/scummy. It’s how I felt when ladd cased vanity right away in that game and why I thought he was a wolf. Your play just feels like your focusing more on positioning and pocketing people like c4, 112 etc and I feel that way because whilst you are tr’ing them for what I believe to be the right reasons, I don’t really see you pushing any townies. And yes I know this argument seems wtf “ur scum reading me because I’m not hard pushing townies” but it’s true. It happens in games. No matter how good of a villa you or anyone else is are at times In everyone’s game as town theyre just gonna be pushing a townie in a game at one point or another. I haven’t really seen you gone out of your way to push anybody with the same vigor I generally do when you’re town. I think you’re kinda just treading on eggshells and buttering people up imo

I think the way you were reading my slot on d2 was kinda scummy. People got all caught on up some level 0 bs that me reacting to you instead of the 5 people voting me was bad but it isn’t. I expect different things from different people and ur the best illario reader. My d1 Was a textbook towny approach for me. You know how you said earlier that tsp is scummy because normally he just locks u in as town and doesn’t really fuss around too much. Well yeah you do the same normally, when I’m not scum by d1 u just know I’m town and lock me in. It didn’t make sense for you to all of a sudden become nervous that I’m scum just because I was subdued or posting when barely even 12 hours of a 72 h day had passed. I think when you have two people who know each other well and one is scum, the one whose scum tries to hide tmi by looking like they’re tossing and turning on the other slot and then they decide on them being town or they just insta townlock them and hope for the best but I think ur more versatile than to go for that approach. I think if ur town u just know I’m town there and don’t bother tinfoiling me just because some people who have no idea how to read me were wary, I don’t see how you would let that trumph over your own read on me when you know ur much better than everyone at reading me.

Despite all this, I stand by what I said. I’m not gonna push you, I’m not gonna vote you, I want you to win regardless, towns annoyed me so Idc about carrying them. And Dw about this post having an effect on the game it’s way too long that I doubt anybody is gonna read it properly and the ones who do will just gloss over

[Creature]

Was Dyslexicon's role above or below average?

[ilario]

Anyways it’s 12 am and I only made that post since you were curious. I got another busy day tomorrow so I gtg

[Master Radishes]

Tl;dr

[ilario]

Oh yeah there’s also the dizzy thing, ur a really great reader of dizzy and I don’t think you would clear dizzy for emotional posts esp since you’re aware that’s what I made the mistake of doing when I first met dizzy and I even told you about that after that game. Anyways gtg for real, ciao

[Master Radishes]

Ngl though ilario is voicing tinfoil thoughts that have briefly visited my head except he's well articulated and my brain isn't.

But I do think it's still too based in WIFOM to give serious merit at this stage. Like occams razor still applies even for good wolves more often than not. Alex's actions still make sense from a town pov so I'll see it that way till we get all green flips tonight and I panic.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Was Dyslexicon's role above or below average?

We’re one more vig claim away from the answer being below but probably in general above

[TonyStarkPrime]

Newly twins hug for @ilario after shooting Dizzy not-mafia, so either town or 3p. I just assume town, cuz now Dizzy is death we are the new twins.

What does this meeeeeeaaannnn

Is your name ilario?

@ilario what does this meannn

[Belzy]

Anyways it’s 12 am and I only made that post since you were curious. I got another busy day tomorrow so I gtg

Sleep well

[Creature]

Would sabie and sig be given vig roles if they were wolves?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Ooh interesting idea

[TonyStarkPrime]

If they’re 1 or 2 shot, yeah, probably

[Creature]

This game is taking too much time

[alexa]

Holy shit I wrote up a whole response then somehow clicked something and lost it because I'm typing from my phone, I'm going to cry

[alexa]

I will just wait until I can get to a computer but you are wrong ilario and I have a lot of words

[Creature]

We'll probably have Phil abd Gloria as wolf here, right?

[Creature]

We should have just randomized the top 8 tbh

[Belzy]

We'll probably have Phil abd Gloria as wolf here, right?

This day phase would have been much more interesting if he was in the current poll.

[Belzy]

We should have just randomized the top 8 tbh

Sure, and every other day also.

[TonyStarkPrime]

We'll probably have Phil abd Gloria as wolf here, right?

the “Mac hasn’t killed a wolf in 24 hours” timer is buzzing

[Creature]

Randomized top 8:

Paopan
Justplayingitcool
Guillotine
Belzy
sig
ilario
112
sabie12

Go

[Guillotine]

Town:
Alexa
Ilario
Belzy
Guillo
Sean
Nutella
Alison (think she cares about the game in a town way)
Paopan (don't know them, but surface level this just seems like town)

Jpic and Radish also seem ok.

If you are night killed and flip town, i will sheep your reads.

Went through guillos ISO. With regard to dizzy they went from super suspecting each other to then townreading each other. The wording here made sure to say night killed assuming dizzy could be night killed. Are the town reads on guillo for his claim about his role? Meh that's all I have time and energy for I need to go back to sleep.

I didnt townread Dizzy there, where does it say ok, i townread you or made a list putting him in my towncore?

I said that because when he rands town and is right people usually fear kill him for his legacy.

[Guillotine]

i mean logically speaking guillo is the person who currently has the less likelihood to having wolves voting for him which inherently makes him the most likely to be a wolf so he should probably have many more votes on him

not me though

That's because im obvious town, you keep throwing shade at me without commitment, what's up with that?

[Paopan]

9h... Mmmm kk
72h day is meh

[sabie12]

Well if I were a mafia vig I had no reason to claim that shot. I wouldn't have. I think mafia wants me out because now that they know I am a threat to them they don't want me to proceed to night phase. I'd rather die via soup or nk than by being mischopped today.

[Guillotine]

@ilario also please remember

1. I came into this game with n0 mechanical information on nutella's role (flipped arsonist). I knew what it was right away and thought she was maf or 3P so i tried to fake a red. and softed it hard. i thought her reaction was towny so i changed my mind but the way i started this game would not make sense for me as scum.

2. Dizzy flipped scum rolecop and there's a soup this setup so i am clearly not scum despite my bad read on dizzy

You don’t have to appeal to me lol I want u to win this town is annoying anyways

Can you please open my ISO then and read me instead of acting like I am lock wolf for nebulous reasons.

i can express my concerns on you if you like but tbh id rather not and i want u to win regardless of what i think ur alignment is since this town (minus jpic) has been annoying me lol and u havent

What is this post?

Express your concerns now instead of pocketing her while also throwing shade on her.

If Alexa is not reacting to this or have not when i finish catching up, i will begin believing this is just an act and in fact Alexa is a wolf.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Randomized top 8:

Paopan
Justplayingitcool
Guillotine
Belzy
sig
ilario
112
sabie12

Go

That’s just this top 8 with more steps
Pao

[Guillotine]

So basicly I see HK Sig and Sabie as goners. HK as 3p should be gone. Sig and Sabie are two names I cannot find enough reason to try to avoid their lynches. So that leaves my final vote on c4, because as of now he is my first choice of the remaining options in the current poll. There are a bunch of players I wanna investigate, but most of them are not in the current poll, so today is a good day for a relatively raincheck, save my energy for the next day when we have more info, because more flips. Game is hard, and I have so many if if's.

If there are players you want to investigate and most are not in the poll, what does that tell you?

[Belzy]

So basicly I see HK Sig and Sabie as goners. HK as 3p should be gone. Sig and Sabie are two names I cannot find enough reason to try to avoid their lynches. So that leaves my final vote on c4, because as of now he is my first choice of the remaining options in the current poll. There are a bunch of players I wanna investigate, but most of them are not in the current poll, so today is a good day for a relatively raincheck, save my energy for the next day when we have more info, because more flips. Game is hard, and I have so many if if's.

If there are players you want to investigate and most are not in the poll, what does that tell you?

Town is losing.

[Creature]

imo we shouldn't lynch sabie12 especially because she's claiming another vig shot

[Belzy]

We got 2 dead wolves, and with HK 1 3p dead soon, and hoping for more, so things could be worse, but we need to put on our A game if we wanna beat all the scum.

[Creature]

Like, look at who is voting sabie right now

[Creature]

We got 2 dead wolves, and with HK 1 3p dead soon, and hoping for more, so things could be worse, but we need to put on our A game if we wanna beat all the scum.

Like lynching our town vig?

[Belzy]

imo we shouldn't lynch sabie12 especially because she's claiming another vig shot

Didn't she shot town before, and what if she is a non-town vig? Especially 3p are often multi shots vigs.

[Belzy]

We got 2 dead wolves, and with HK 1 3p dead soon, and hoping for more, so things could be worse, but we need to put on our A game if we wanna beat all the scum.

Like lynching our town vig?

What's the evidence of that? If i missed it, then please show it to me.

[sabie12]

Town:
Alexa
Ilario
Belzy
Guillo
Sean
Nutella
Alison (think she cares about the game in a town way)
Paopan (don't know them, but surface level this just seems like town)

Jpic and Radish also seem ok.

If you are night killed and flip town, i will sheep your reads.

Went through guillos ISO. With regard to dizzy they went from super suspecting each other to then townreading each other. The wording here made sure to say night killed assuming dizzy could be night killed. Are the town reads on guillo for his claim about his role? Meh that's all I have time and energy for I need to go back to sleep.

I didnt townread Dizzy there, where does it say ok, i townread you or made a list putting him in my towncore?

I said that because when he rands town and is right people usually fear kill him for his legacy.

Okay just making an observation and asking questions trying to look through ISOs of the 8 people and figure things out. I initally saw that post as saying you thought dizzy would flip town and you trust their reads. I get what you're saying now

[Creature]

imo we shouldn't lynch sabie12 especially because she's claiming another vig shot

Didn't she shot town before, and what if she is a non-town vig? Especially 3p are often multi shots vigs.

She shot Ender who was widely suspected. If she is wolf she townsided in that kill.

[Creature]

sabie claiming another vig shot is worth listening to

It's probably way worse for us to lynch our town vig than risk leaving a townsiding wolf vig alive

[TonyStarkPrime]

Ok I’m over the hill and now concerned about the possibility aggressively anti-town wolf masons

[Guillotine]

@ilario also please remember

1. I came into this game with n0 mechanical information on nutella's role (flipped arsonist). I knew what it was right away and thought she was maf or 3P so i tried to fake a red. and softed it hard. i thought her reaction was towny so i changed my mind but the way i started this game would not make sense for me as scum.

2. Dizzy flipped scum rolecop and there's a soup this setup so i am clearly not scum despite my bad read on dizzy

You don’t have to appeal to me lol I want u to win this town is annoying anyways

Can you please open my ISO then and read me instead of acting like I am lock wolf for nebulous reasons.

i can express my concerns on you if you like but tbh id rather not and i want u to win regardless of what i think ur alignment is since this town (minus jpic) has been annoying me lol and u havent

Eh okay, I can't be chopped today anyways and I'll likely be soup killed by tomorrow, TBH you expressing them or whatever may increase the chance I survive. And I kind of want to die to remove tinfoil. I am literally the most self resolving role ever

“Ehh ok”? Why are you appeasing him? Ilario is literally sussing you without telling you why and you just accept it?

I believe if you two were wolves together would be doing a better job at distancing so this is not it. Are you two scum from different factions? @ilario @alexa

Alexa why are you appeasing him? Because he is a vig and he is right about you? Or because it does not matter cause you will night kill him tonight anyway? Why are you not reacting the way i expect you to react if you were town?


Ate you two wolves

[Belzy]

imo we shouldn't lynch sabie12 especially because she's claiming another vig shot

Didn't she shot town before, and what if she is a non-town vig? Especially 3p are often multi shots vigs.

She shot Ender who was widely suspected. If she is wolf she townsided in that kill.

Hard to say, can still mean anything. I know Ender was suspected, but that shot doesn't prove anything cuz Ender is simply town.

I unvoted sabie btw ftr

[Creature]

imo we shouldn't lynch sabie12 especially because she's claiming another vig shot

Didn't she shot town before, and what if she is a non-town vig? Especially 3p are often multi shots vigs.

She shot Ender who was widely suspected. If she is wolf she townsided in that kill.

Hard to say, can still mean anything. I know Ender was suspected, but that shot doesn't prove anything cuz Ender is simply town.

I unvoted sabie btw ftr

Yeah. Now it's up for us to decide whether we want to risk lynching the fucking town vig at the hope they're a wolf vig that shot a widely suspected target and claimed vig for lolsies.

[Guillotine]

So basicly I see HK Sig and Sabie as goners. HK as 3p should be gone. Sig and Sabie are two names I cannot find enough reason to try to avoid their lynches. So that leaves my final vote on c4, because as of now he is my first choice of the remaining options in the current poll. There are a bunch of players I wanna investigate, but most of them are not in the current poll, so today is a good day for a relatively raincheck, save my energy for the next day when we have more info, because more flips. Game is hard, and I have so many if if's.

If there are players you want to investigate and most are not in the poll, what does that tell you?

Town is losing.

No, it should be telling you “maybe i should be voting less people to lynch today and only vote people i truly believe in”.

[Guillotine]

I retract my townread from Alexa.

[Guillotine]

imo we shouldn't lynch sabie12 especially because she's claiming another vig shot

Didn't she shot town before, and what if she is a non-town vig? Especially 3p are often multi shots vigs.

She shot Ender who was widely suspected. If she is wolf she townsided in that kill.

Hard to say, can still mean anything. I know Ender was suspected, but that shot doesn't prove anything cuz Ender is simply town.

I unvoted sabie btw ftr

Yeah. Now it's up for us to decide whether we want to risk lynching the fucking town vig at the hope they're a wolf vig that shot a widely suspected target and claimed vig for lolsies.

Does the same apply for Sig in your opinion?

[Belzy]

So basicly I see HK Sig and Sabie as goners. HK as 3p should be gone. Sig and Sabie are two names I cannot find enough reason to try to avoid their lynches. So that leaves my final vote on c4, because as of now he is my first choice of the remaining options in the current poll. There are a bunch of players I wanna investigate, but most of them are not in the current poll, so today is a good day for a relatively raincheck, save my energy for the next day when we have more info, because more flips. Game is hard, and I have so many if if's.

If there are players you want to investigate and most are not in the poll, what does that tell you?

Town is losing.

No, it should be telling you “maybe i should be voting less people to lynch today and only vote people i truly believe in”.

Sig c4 HK are my current votes. 3p HK, c4 I don't trust, and Sig I don't trust also.

[alexa]

@ilario also please remember

1. I came into this game with n0 mechanical information on nutella's role (flipped arsonist). I knew what it was right away and thought she was maf or 3P so i tried to fake a red. and softed it hard. i thought her reaction was towny so i changed my mind but the way i started this game would not make sense for me as scum.

2. Dizzy flipped scum rolecop and there's a soup this setup so i am clearly not scum despite my bad read on dizzy

You don’t have to appeal to me lol I want u to win this town is annoying anyways

Can you please open my ISO then and read me instead of acting like I am lock wolf for nebulous reasons.

i can express my concerns on you if you like but tbh id rather not and i want u to win regardless of what i think ur alignment is since this town (minus jpic) has been annoying me lol and u havent

Eh okay, I can't be chopped today anyways and I'll likely be soup killed by tomorrow, TBH you expressing them or whatever may increase the chance I survive. And I kind of want to die to remove tinfoil. I am literally the most self resolving role ever

“Ehh ok”? Why are you appeasing him? Ilario is literally sussing you without telling you why and you just accept it?

I believe if you two were wolves together would be doing a better job at distancing so this is not it. Are you two scum from different factions? @ilario @alexa

Alexa why are you appeasing him? Because he is a vig and he is right about you? Or because it does not matter cause you will night kill him tonight anyway? Why are you not reacting the way i expect you to react if you were town?


Ate you two wolves

Because it means nothing. I'm not in danger right now and neither is he. I think he's a villager and he does this same fucking thing every game. We do not need to deal with this until tomorrow and one or both of us can be dead by then. And you saw Ghosts, no one gives a fuck about our legacy reads on each other

There is only one wolf faction

I will respond to his big paragraph bjt I wrote up a whole response from my phone then it got eaten so I need to wait until I can get to my laptop

[Creature]

imo we shouldn't lynch sabie12 especially because she's claiming another vig shot

Didn't she shot town before, and what if she is a non-town vig? Especially 3p are often multi shots vigs.

She shot Ender who was widely suspected. If she is wolf she townsided in that kill.

Hard to say, can still mean anything. I know Ender was suspected, but that shot doesn't prove anything cuz Ender is simply town.

I unvoted sabie btw ftr

Yeah. Now it's up for us to decide whether we want to risk lynching the fucking town vig at the hope they're a wolf vig that shot a widely suspected target and claimed vig for lolsies.

Does the same apply for Sig in your opinion?

tbh I'm not sure if sig has another vig shot

If they do I'd consider leaving them alive but also their shot was pretty far from POE as opposed to sabie's

[alexa]

I retract my townread from Alexa.

Why? Because I'm not acting like a crazy person in response to ilario pushing me when I'm likely to be resolved as soon as scum does their soup kill and am in 0 danger today?

[Guillotine]

@ilario also please remember

1. I came into this game with n0 mechanical information on nutella's role (flipped arsonist). I knew what it was right away and thought she was maf or 3P so i tried to fake a red. and softed it hard. i thought her reaction was towny so i changed my mind but the way i started this game would not make sense for me as scum.

2. Dizzy flipped scum rolecop and there's a soup this setup so i am clearly not scum despite my bad read on dizzy

You don’t have to appeal to me lol I want u to win this town is annoying anyways

Can you please open my ISO then and read me instead of acting like I am lock wolf for nebulous reasons.

i can express my concerns on you if you like but tbh id rather not and i want u to win regardless of what i think ur alignment is since this town (minus jpic) has been annoying me lol and u havent

Eh okay, I can't be chopped today anyways and I'll likely be soup killed by tomorrow, TBH you expressing them or whatever may increase the chance I survive. And I kind of want to die to remove tinfoil. I am literally the most self resolving role ever

“Ehh ok”? Why are you appeasing him? Ilario is literally sussing you without telling you why and you just accept it?

I believe if you two were wolves together would be doing a better job at distancing so this is not it. Are you two scum from different factions? @ilario @alexa

Alexa why are you appeasing him? Because he is a vig and he is right about you? Or because it does not matter cause you will night kill him tonight anyway? Why are you not reacting the way i expect you to react if you were town?


Ate you two wolves

Because it means nothing. I'm not in danger right now and neither is he. I think he's a villager and he does this same fucking thing every game. We do not need to deal with this until tomorrow and one or both of us can be dead by then. And you saw Ghosts, no one gives a fuck about our legacy reads on each other

There is only one wolf faction

I will respond to his big paragraph bjt I wrote up a whole response from my phone then it got eaten so I need to wait until I can get to my laptop

There is a 3P faction Alexa! A 3P FACTION.

How players we started with? 33?

7 wolves. 7 times 3 = 21, that is the amount of town.

7 + 21 equals 28. Meaning 5 could be werewolves or aliens or some other group scum faction. Maybe.

(Hmm! If there is another group scum faction does it mean they also have a captain?)

So it is not unlikely that you two sus each other but are trying to appease each other out of fear of each other.