Highway Heist (MAFIA WIN)

[c4e5g3d5]

I don't really care about Wilgy's hammer read, villagers have wack reads

I do care that Wilgy has 0 reads that don't involve the word "hammer"

That's just incorrect. I TR Hally, NAA and Marmot.

NAA I even vocalized.

Oh my god.

Okay, so it turns out that this does in fact imply Wilgy hasn't said anything about his Hally and Marmot reads
And in this case "vocalized" means he said "I think Axe is town because he townread me"

This is pretty dumb

[Hally]

I will ask. People who have correctly read Dizzy before. Why aren't they scum rn?

I find that I'm just bad at reading them.

i’m not sure

i agree with where his head’s been at generally but i feel his vibe/presence is off in the sense that as a villager i feel like tries not to care but then gets sucked into it anyway whereas here i feel like he’s almost overplaying how little he cares in a way that might actually be wolfy for him

i’ve seen wolves lay on the idc vibe too thick because they think that if they’re so blatant about it people will actually level themselves out of wolf reading them for it (w!alexa does this for example)

but i don’t know actually know if that’s the line dizzy would take here as a wolf and it’s entirely possible his mood is off and it means nothing

[c4e5g3d5]

@c4e5g3d5

I’m not sure I would associate town Alison with a see-what-sticks approach; regardless, I find this manner of complex metagaming to be too specific to tell a reliable story about any player.

If I expect anything of town Alison, it’s that I will understand what she is doing regardless of whether or not I agree. I don’t entirely understand her play here. I think I view her similarly to how others were viewing Mac when he showed up.

I get that my reads can be convoluted, but I wouldn't call that read complex metagaming. It was like 80% just describing why I think thing is town indicative and then noting that it checks out from a meta angle. Just doesn't seem like you get what I'm saying. Not mad, I'm used to it lol, but can you give it another try or something, and if that fails we can call it quits until I figure out some better wording?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@c4e5g3d5

I’m not sure I would associate town Alison with a see-what-sticks approach; regardless, I find this manner of complex metagaming to be too specific to tell a reliable story about any player.

If I expect anything of town Alison, it’s that I will understand what she is doing regardless of whether or not I agree. I don’t entirely understand her play here. I think I view her similarly to how others were viewing Mac when he showed up.

I get that my reads can be convoluted, but I wouldn't call that read complex metagaming. It was like 80% just describing why I think thing is town indicative and then noting that it checks out from a meta angle. Just doesn't seem like you get what I'm saying. Not mad, I'm used to it lol, but can you give it another try or something, and if that fails we can call it quits until I figure out some better wording?

I'll take another look when I am able to focus. Hard to do much at the moment

[Marmot]

Mmmff, mff

[Hally]

Mmmff, mff

finally someone said it

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Btw running people up is kind of pointless if you're vocally unwilling to hammer lol, the whole point of running people up is to see what happens when they get close to a hammer, but there's no tension to it if everyone knows there are only two or three people in this game whod actually hammer lol

Who is vocally unwilling to hammer?

Literally everyone saying things like "I don't want a hammer" lol

Who has said that though?

Alison Jay you hally dizzy radishes I think have said some form of it

Idk I'm not fact checking right now that's just offhand

[DrWilgy]

jay, why is radishes the towniest town to ever town?

I bet I can answer this and if Jay explains what's in my head I'll return the lock town read on him.

Radish hypes up the whole did he think what I thought he thought thing, making it sound like there's a high bar for Jay to clear here

jay, why is radishes the towniest town to ever town?

his reception of Nanook doing the "Jay and Mac are outed" thing and conversion of that into "Nanook and Mac are outed" looked very real to me, even if he didn't intend for it to be taken as incredibly serious. The brain that happened in MR's brain to facilitate that read is something I don't figure mafia are braining on Page 1

All Jay has to offer is describing what Radish did and saying "this feels like town"

Yep Jay town.

And that's enough for Radish apparently

Bit of a letdown

and you’re also town

Hally explain this one to me plz.

[c4e5g3d5]

Mmmff, mff

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This seems kinda Alison 101 lmao

Also I think the main reason for my Alison tr is presentation, still having trouble describing it but there's an efficiency to it, she gets to the point quickly and bluntly in a way that looks designed to hit harder when you read it
Just makes me actually believe she's trying to stir the thread, and I also think it describes what I've seen of v!Alison better than what I've seen of w!Alison

And generally she seems to not have any kind of schedule for who she pressures and when but these reads are always wrong from me so take that one with a grain of salt

I'm revisiting this per your request, c4. What you describe in orange is, to me, Alison rather than town Alison or mafia Alison. I am not sure I have seen Alison present her views of a game "inefficiently"; that is perhaps one of her core values as a player. I think it's plausible that she has tried to "stir the thread", and that such a description can be associated with some specific posts she has made if they are viewed with the most favorable available interpretation. Things like the elongated process of "reaction testing" Hally apply. To me, the important question is not "is this stylistically a town Alison action?" but rather it is "do I believe Alison is doing things for the reasons that she says she is doing things?".

An example: I am not sure Alison's treatment of Hally can really be described as a "reaction test" or that I believe her when she claims it as such. There are certain motions in the general consensus that can be placed over Alison's handling of Hally like a stencil, and I think the fit would be close. Alison's read changed, abruptly and strongly, in a stage of play in which Hally's general stance of being threatened by the player base at large was concurrently waning outside of Alison's influence. I might be convoluting my explanation, so let me know if this doesn't make sense. I don't have a ton of confidence in this stuff, but I am trying to articulate why I might doubt Alison's play to this point. The Hally example is just one among a couple or a few that I could babble on about had I the time or inclination.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Town reads
c4e5g3d5
Hally
MacDougall
Marmot

There's some dissonance here, but gun to head town
Dyslexicon
Master Radishes

Not town reads
Alison
DrWilgy
Nanook
NAA

At 9 vs. 2, an ordinary set of roles would call for a POE pool of 5 players (2 mafia + 3 mischops). The arrangement of this game's matrix provides the likelihood (certainty?) of a mischop being lost to an extra mafia kill or beloved princess, so reduce the POE to 4. We'd then need 6 town reads to square the game away, which for the moment does seem like a genuine challenge. I have a theoretical POE built above, but I would like to be more confident about it than I am.

[Hally]

@DrWilgy i explained it here

just to check myself, did anyone else have difficulty understanding my read on c4 besides NAA?

me

alright, i’ll spoon feed it i guess

i think wolves generally aren’t bold enough to go that hard against jay declaring someone lock v and the content of c4’s case is one of those subtle things wolves don’t pick up on (unless they’re w/w)

also think it’s villagery from c4 specifically because i think it’s the sort of thing he tends to look for when solving and the way he followed up with it to me reads like how he gets when he believes he’s caught something, but i’d v read it from anyone

[Hally]

This seems kinda Alison 101 lmao

Also I think the main reason for my Alison tr is presentation, still having trouble describing it but there's an efficiency to it, she gets to the point quickly and bluntly in a way that looks designed to hit harder when you read it
Just makes me actually believe she's trying to stir the thread, and I also think it describes what I've seen of v!Alison better than what I've seen of w!Alison

And generally she seems to not have any kind of schedule for who she pressures and when but these reads are always wrong from me so take that one with a grain of salt

I'm revisiting this per your request, c4. What you describe in orange is, to me, Alison rather than town Alison or mafia Alison. I am not sure I have seen Alison present her views of a game "inefficiently"; that is perhaps one of her core values as a player. I think it's plausible that she has tried to "stir the thread", and that such a description can be associated with some specific posts she has made if they are viewed with the most favorable available interpretation. Things like the elongated process of "reaction testing" Hally apply. To me, the important question is not "is this stylistically a town Alison action?" but rather it is "do I believe Alison is doing things for the reasons that she says she is doing things?".

An example: I am not sure Alison's treatment of Hally can really be described as a "reaction test" or that I believe her when she claims it as such. There are certain motions in the general consensus that can be placed over Alison's handling of Hally like a stencil, and I think the fit would be close. Alison's read changed, abruptly and strongly, in a stage of play in which Hally's general stance of being threatened by the player base at large was concurrently waning outside of Alison's influence. I might be convoluting my explanation, so let me know if this doesn't make sense. I don't have a ton of confidence in this stuff, but I am trying to articulate why I might doubt Alison's play to this point. The Hally example is just one among a couple or a few that I could babble on about had I the time or inclination.

exactly my thoughts

[Master Radishes]

'Reaction test' has to be the most overused phrase in Mafia.

I suspect most such 'tests' are simply post hoc justifications for bad pushes.

[Hally]

every time i’m wrong is actually just a reaction test

[Marmot]

'Reaction test' has to be the most overused phrase in Mafia.

I suspect most such 'tests' are simply post hoc justifications for bad pushes.

It's funny you say that because I was reviewing mac's iso and noticed he said his farting was intended as a reaction test for Hally.

[Marmot]

I mean... just ask

it’s really mostly that i haven’t followed your read on me and how it’s progressed but i’m kinda sick of people talking about me already

I intentionally made fart posts to get a reaction from you. You ignored it which I found sus because I figured it was because you were confused how to respond to me fart posting as town. Then you got moderately townier after you started trying to resolve me.

This here post.

[Hally]

correction naa's entire iso is townie

this post reminds me of how i caught mac in GoC when he declared sabie was lock v for no reason

like idk how anyone could think this lol

[Master Radishes]

My post was just a reaction test.

[Master Radishes]

Hally and Marmot outed.

[Dyslexicon]

FAAART

[Master Radishes]

For real though, Hally / Jay / Marmot Town core LET'S GO

[Master Radishes]

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

This is a reaction test.

[Dyslexicon]

Simply this:
if MR flips RED, I don't think these are wolves
c4e5g3d5, Alison, MacDougall, NotAnAxehole

I think there's a likely chance MR is red because of them not being hammered for what, a 10-12 hour period of floating 4?

If MR is red, Mac is probably more likely wolf lol. But MR is town anyways so waheveh

[Dyslexicon]

The fact that Wilgy says the "team" could be actively avoiding it when a wolf MR could only have one teammate is actually a little townie imo, because I think scum!Wilgy would be more aware of the fact that there could only be one teammate which is not much of a team.

I thought the same thing, and this is the Marmot analysis I subscribed to. Thank you.

[Dyslexicon]

The fact that Wilgy says the "team" could be actively avoiding it when a wolf MR could only have one teammate is actually a little townie imo, because I think scum!Wilgy would be more aware of the fact that there could only be one teammate which is not much of a team.

I thought the same thing, and this is the Marmot analysis I subscribed to. Thank you.

This here is why Marmot is town btw

[Dyslexicon]

nobody has any thoughts on this?

Can I get a tldr on Axe that doesn't revolve around "not towny"

- treatment of alison is wolfy - opens saying he wants to sheep her while not yet having a read on her then v reads her for a weak reason that doesn’t really apply to her and makes no effort engage with/understand the suspicion surrounding her i.e. what villagers do when someone they v read is getting wolf read a ton. just don’t see any critical thought or drive to figure things out in his treatment of her and it reads more like he’s just trying to ingratiate himself to her.

- treatment of his nonconsensus suspects is wolfy - keeps throwing you out as a wolf read but does nothing about it. again, not what villagers do when someone they wolf read is getting widely v read. i think at one point he even threw out you/jay/dizzy as his suspects and you’re all being cleared pretty much, meaning from his pov town’s consensus is way off, yet i don’t see any of the concern in his posts that villagers have when they think everything is upside down.

- i find his treatment of me wolfy too but obviously biased there. just don’t feel like he’s been trying to solve me in a good faith way.

also he and nanook know each other well afaik + nanook has been getting a lot of heat, but NAA has largely ignored him i think

i dunno, just not feeling the villager in the way he’s approaching anything but i’ve never played with him so maybe i’m backwards here

Nah

[c4e5g3d5]

This seems kinda Alison 101 lmao

Also I think the main reason for my Alison tr is presentation, still having trouble describing it but there's an efficiency to it, she gets to the point quickly and bluntly in a way that looks designed to hit harder when you read it
Just makes me actually believe she's trying to stir the thread, and I also think it describes what I've seen of v!Alison better than what I've seen of w!Alison

And generally she seems to not have any kind of schedule for who she pressures and when but these reads are always wrong from me so take that one with a grain of salt

I'm revisiting this per your request, c4. What you describe in orange is, to me, Alison rather than town Alison or mafia Alison. I am not sure I have seen Alison present her views of a game "inefficiently"; that is perhaps one of her core values as a player. I think it's plausible that she has tried to "stir the thread", and that such a description can be associated with some specific posts she has made if they are viewed with the most favorable available interpretation. Things like the elongated process of "reaction testing" Hally apply. To me, the important question is not "is this stylistically a town Alison action?" but rather it is "do I believe Alison is doing things for the reasons that she says she is doing things?".

An example: I am not sure Alison's treatment of Hally can really be described as a "reaction test" or that I believe her when she claims it as such. There are certain motions in the general consensus that can be placed over Alison's handling of Hally like a stencil, and I think the fit would be close. Alison's read changed, abruptly and strongly, in a stage of play in which Hally's general stance of being threatened by the player base at large was concurrently waning outside of Alison's influence. I might be convoluting my explanation, so let me know if this doesn't make sense. I don't have a ton of confidence in this stuff, but I am trying to articulate why I might doubt Alison's play to this point. The Hally example is just one among a couple or a few that I could babble on about had I the time or inclination.

Mkay

As per tradition it's a more specific feeling than I think I'm describing but I get why it could easily be more Alison-indicative than anything else

[Dyslexicon]

I will ask. People who have correctly read Dizzy before. Why aren't they scum rn?

I find that I'm just bad at reading them.

This is like super towny for Wilgy for me. Wilgy says this and other stuff he's said by now as town.

[Dyslexicon]

I will ask. People who have correctly read Dizzy before. Why aren't they scum rn?

I find that I'm just bad at reading them.

i’m not sure

i agree with where his head’s been at generally but i feel his vibe/presence is off in the sense that as a villager i feel like tries not to care but then gets sucked into it anyway whereas here i feel like he’s almost overplaying how little he cares in a way that might actually be wolfy for him

i’ve seen wolves lay on the idc vibe too thick because they think that if they’re so blatant about it people will actually level themselves out of wolf reading them for it (w!alexa does this for example)

but i don’t know actually know if that’s the line dizzy would take here as a wolf and it’s entirely possible his mood is off and it means nothing

Lol. You should've seen my last couple of town games ig.

I'm not taking any line. I'm just existing. And I'm trying to solve the game so

[MacDougall]

correction naa's entire iso is townie

this post reminds me of how i caught mac in GoC when he declared sabie was lock v for no reason

like idk how anyone could think this lol

I read his iso and it was townie... explain how it wasn't? first 9 posts.

[Dyslexicon]

Btw running people up is kind of pointless if you're vocally unwilling to hammer lol, the whole point of running people up is to see what happens when they get close to a hammer, but there's no tension to it if everyone knows there are only two or three people in this game whod actually hammer lol

Who is vocally unwilling to hammer?

Literally everyone saying things like "I don't want a hammer" lol

Who has said that though?

Alison Jay you hally dizzy radishes I think have said some form of it

Idk I'm not fact checking right now that's just offhand

It goes without saying though. We all know who would actually push a hammer early and who wouldn't. S H R U G

[Dyslexicon]

correction naa's entire iso is townie

this post reminds me of how i caught mac in GoC when he declared sabie was lock v for no reason

like idk how anyone could think this lol

I read his iso and it was townie... explain how it wasn't? first 9 posts.

How about you explain how it's towny?

[Hally]

correction naa's entire iso is townie

this post reminds me of how i caught mac in GoC when he declared sabie was lock v for no reason

like idk how anyone could think this lol

I read his iso and it was townie... explain how it wasn't? first 9 posts.

i’ve already explained in great detail why i don’t think it is

[c4e5g3d5]

Town reads
c4e5g3d5
Hally
MacDougall
Marmot

There's some dissonance here, but gun to head town
Dyslexicon
Master Radishes

Not town reads
Alison
DrWilgy
Nanook
NAA

At 9 vs. 2, an ordinary set of roles would call for a POE pool of 5 players (2 mafia + 3 mischops). The arrangement of this game's matrix provides the likelihood (certainty?) of a mischop being lost to an extra mafia kill or beloved princess, so reduce the POE to 4. We'd then need 6 town reads to square the game away, which for the moment does seem like a genuine challenge. I have a theoretical POE built above, but I would like to be more confident about it than I am.

More on Mac? I haven't seen you say anything to imply a strong Mac read, is it just that you thought on your resons for a weak read and decided they were strong?

Generally agree with the rest

[Dyslexicon]

This seems kinda Alison 101 lmao

Also I think the main reason for my Alison tr is presentation, still having trouble describing it but there's an efficiency to it, she gets to the point quickly and bluntly in a way that looks designed to hit harder when you read it
Just makes me actually believe she's trying to stir the thread, and I also think it describes what I've seen of v!Alison better than what I've seen of w!Alison

And generally she seems to not have any kind of schedule for who she pressures and when but these reads are always wrong from me so take that one with a grain of salt

I'm revisiting this per your request, c4. What you describe in orange is, to me, Alison rather than town Alison or mafia Alison. I am not sure I have seen Alison present her views of a game "inefficiently"; that is perhaps one of her core values as a player. I think it's plausible that she has tried to "stir the thread", and that such a description can be associated with some specific posts she has made if they are viewed with the most favorable available interpretation. Things like the elongated process of "reaction testing" Hally apply. To me, the important question is not "is this stylistically a town Alison action?" but rather it is "do I believe Alison is doing things for the reasons that she says she is doing things?".

An example: I am not sure Alison's treatment of Hally can really be described as a "reaction test" or that I believe her when she claims it as such. There are certain motions in the general consensus that can be placed over Alison's handling of Hally like a stencil, and I think the fit would be close. Alison's read changed, abruptly and strongly, in a stage of play in which Hally's general stance of being threatened by the player base at large was concurrently waning outside of Alison's influence. I might be convoluting my explanation, so let me know if this doesn't make sense. I don't have a ton of confidence in this stuff, but I am trying to articulate why I might doubt Alison's play to this point. The Hally example is just one among a couple or a few that I could babble on about had I the time or inclination.

Evertime I try to read some over complicated Jimmay-post, I'm considering if using overly convoluted explanations and sentences and words and shit is scum indicative for Jimmay. I just had that feeling.

[c4e5g3d5]

I had the thought that if Axe were 2020 Schweppes I'd be townreading him

[Dyslexicon]

Town reads
c4e5g3d5
Hally
MacDougall
Marmot

There's some dissonance here, but gun to head town
Dyslexicon
Master Radishes

Not town reads
Alison
DrWilgy
Nanook
NAA

At 9 vs. 2, an ordinary set of roles would call for a POE pool of 5 players (2 mafia + 3 mischops). The arrangement of this game's matrix provides the likelihood (certainty?) of a mischop being lost to an extra mafia kill or beloved princess, so reduce the POE to 4. We'd then need 6 town reads to square the game away, which for the moment does seem like a genuine challenge. I have a theoretical POE built above, but I would like to be more confident about it than I am.

Wilgy is town.

What's the dissonance with me?

[Hally]

i don’t get your wilgy read dizzy

[Hally]

I had the thought that if Axe were 2020 Schweppes I'd be townreading him

villagery

[c4e5g3d5]

Town reads
c4e5g3d5
Hally
MacDougall
Marmot

There's some dissonance here, but gun to head town
Dyslexicon
Master Radishes

Not town reads
Alison
DrWilgy
Nanook
NAA

At 9 vs. 2, an ordinary set of roles would call for a POE pool of 5 players (2 mafia + 3 mischops). The arrangement of this game's matrix provides the likelihood (certainty?) of a mischop being lost to an extra mafia kill or beloved princess, so reduce the POE to 4. We'd then need 6 town reads to square the game away, which for the moment does seem like a genuine challenge. I have a theoretical POE built above, but I would like to be more confident about it than I am.

Wilgy is town.

What's the dissonance with me?

Entirely for that one post? Big meh.

[Dyslexicon]

I will ask. People who have correctly read Dizzy before. Why aren't they scum rn?

I find that I'm just bad at reading them.

This is like super towny for Wilgy for me. Wilgy says this and other stuff he's said by now as town.

@Hally I don't think Wilgy ever cares about wanting to read me correctly as scum or asks around. He usually slaps a scum read on me or just doesn't care at all. You could say "But pretending", but nah. I just think he's town and I've decided. His thoughts are weird, but that is not uncommon.

[c4e5g3d5]

jay, why is radishes the towniest town to ever town?

I bet I can answer this and if Jay explains what's in my head I'll return the lock town read on him.

@Master Radishes hopefully if I ask this way it's slightly less tail-chasing

What would Jay have had to say for you to not townread him?

[Dyslexicon]

Entirely for that one post? Big meh.

It is that, and I just feel it.

I have more success reading town from micro tells (one off posts)
But not a lot of success reading scum from micro tells (cause town says weird and scummy shit or stuff that is insincere all the time)

Town read micro and scum read macro or something.
This is a rant that's not really relevant, but just something I thought about today.

Anyway, I still think Wilgy is town so sue me.

[Hally]

I will ask. People who have correctly read Dizzy before. Why aren't they scum rn?

I find that I'm just bad at reading them.

This is like super towny for Wilgy for me. Wilgy says this and other stuff he's said by now as town.

@Hally I don't think Wilgy ever cares about wanting to read me correctly as scum or asks around. He usually slaps a scum read on me or just doesn't care at all. You could say "But pretending", but nah. I just think he's town and I've decided. His thoughts are weird, but that is not uncommon.

really? i feel like asking the thread for their read on someone is so easy to fake as a wolf

also i gave a lengthy reply to him that he ignored, which makes me think he didn’t really care about his question

[Dyslexicon]

Town:
Marmot
c4
Wilgy
Hally
MR

Everyone else should get townier if they are town.

[Dyslexicon]

I will ask. People who have correctly read Dizzy before. Why aren't they scum rn?

I find that I'm just bad at reading them.

This is like super towny for Wilgy for me. Wilgy says this and other stuff he's said by now as town.

@Hally I don't think Wilgy ever cares about wanting to read me correctly as scum or asks around. He usually slaps a scum read on me or just doesn't care at all. You could say "But pretending", but nah. I just think he's town and I've decided. His thoughts are weird, but that is not uncommon.

really? i feel like asking the thread for their read on someone is so easy to fake as a wolf

also i gave a lengthy reply to him that he ignored, which makes me think he didn’t really care about his question

Sure.

Go with that.

But he's town.

[Dyslexicon]

Wilgy is obviously town who next, Alison?

I don't think he is

I re-read MR though and some stuff pings me (specifically the flat-sounding attempt to sound like an egoistical townie angry that people are assuming they're out of their scum range, and the repetition of "witty opening post" making for a kinda stilted entrance). So I [VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine.

Orange just reads like such bs.

This is the post in question:

Screw you I can be mafia still

Which is an obvious joke. I don't think town!Alison reads this as a "flat-sounding attempt to sound like an egotistical towny angry that people are assuming they're out of their scum range". Too many words anyway.

Alison was super awkward in the spat with Hally as well. And the "never mind I town read you now" is classic Wolfison.

So I think I'm just going to tunnel here until she be dedded.

[Hally]

think dizzy is probably not a wolf unless it’s with exactly wilgy, but i also don’t think he would really read wilgy like that as w/w, so he’s probably just v

[Dyslexicon]

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine