Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[zeek]

Naughty cybersabie

[Bass_the_Clever]

I agree with Snow Dog that MM was recruited, and that it wasn't The Master that recruited him. You can see a tie between Roxy and MM if you go back and read both of they're posts. Roxy and MM voted together for Epig. Hedgie was the last for for MM. If Hedgie was the recruiter, she just killed he recruited player.

Nope. Hedgie is not the recruiter.

But I'm pretty sure I've worked out who is.

I understand what you are saying but Roxy made it clear that she was voting Epi until either he died or she died and MM voted Epi to try and save himself. So I don't really see those as being that strong of ties between Roxy and MM. I mean what makes you think it wasn't the master that recruited MM ?

[Chris]

Wut?

I'm not trying to show any connection between Roxy and MM. (Although there was...) I was showing that Hedgie can't be who recruited MM.

As for what you're saying about MM being recruited by The Master... we worked on that yesterday. It doesn't seem like something that would be said if Lucy Saxon found The Master. As BWT said, Lucy started out with a LMS win condition. Her job as a role in this game was to search for The Master. I don't think that if she found him, it would be termed as "recruited", since Lucy is his wife and all...

It was also speculated that The Master having 3 kill protections, a kill and a chance at BTSC would be too powerful if he could recruit as well.

See, this is the problem I had with your vote. You seemed to come in, make a vote for whoever was the hot topic, and then leave. Like you have no stake in the outcome of the lynch... That sounds very... Indy.

bass, are you The Master?

*diclaimer. this is not an accusation, it is a discussion.

[birdwithteeth11]

I will be out hiking at a state park a few hours away all day. Ideally, the best chance of you all getting a night post on time would mean you all get your PMs in to bea and myself in as timely a manner as possible. Jen, if you could just make sure that our master spreadsheet is updated for me, I should be able to take care of the rest. Thank you everyone and have a good Sunday!

[Snow Dog]

Snow... please read my posts from last night.

But, to save you some time, Hedgie was the last vote for MetalMarsh the day he got lynched. He was recruited. So what you are saying is, Hedgie recruited MetalMarsh, and then lynched him rather than vote for Epig?

Do I have that right?

I'm not saying she recruited MM, I'm saying she recruited Roxy. Why one recruiter?

[Elohcin]

Good job guys! Bye Sabie! WB MP! I pick Biblios.

[Chris]

Snow... please read my posts from last night.

But, to save you some time, Hedgie was the last vote for MetalMarsh the day he got lynched. He was recruited. So what you are saying is, Hedgie recruited MetalMarsh, and then lynched him rather than vote for Epig?

Do I have that right?

I'm not saying she recruited MM, I'm saying she recruited Roxy. Why one recruiter?

Because we already discussed that The Master having recruiting abilities would be too strong. And Lucy finding The Master really doesn't sound like something that would be called "recruited".

Why are you so insistent that there's more than 1 recruiter? Don't you think two recruiters in one game would be a bit much?

Also:

Three secret roles.

Lucy Saxon - Not a recruiter

The Mystery Recruiter - Is a recruiter

The Cyber Body - This one is only a strong suspicion from me. But I REALLY doubt it's ANOTHER recruiter.



Also also:

I asked the hosts if there were any more secrets for the roles other than the ones lists. They answered there were not. The Master's role says nothing about recruiting.

[Snow Dog]

Well I think there is more than one recruiter. I think Hedgeowl is one. For all I know you are another or one of the secret roles. For now though my bet is you are The Master.

[Long Con]

I think that panoplied Master Black Rock Lucy Saxon thing could very well be indecorous a "recruit".

I reword target believe overhaul the Cyberman Body scherif a secret gymnosophist.

[juliets]

YES, we did it! RIP to you sadie, it was good to play with you but BIH to your character. I feel so good that we finally got a cyberg!

I haven't even read about the planets yet but I lol'd when someone said it's time for Gotrees to make an appearance. Is he staying away because he doesn't want to answer my suspicions or is this just how he plays? Dana knows him and might have good insight if she would come back to the thread. Anyway, I'll pick a planet later.

And whopee to MP being back! The post was just full of good news!

[Chris]

Well, just like other players who ping me... I went back and looked at Bass...

Interesting stuff.

Vote record:

Day 1 - Enrique
Day 2 - Enrique
Day 3 - Made
Day 4 - Enrique
Day 5 - Enrique
Day 6 - Epig
Day 7 - No vote
Day 8 - Hedgie - Bass is the one who put out the suggestion that Roxy dropped her suspicion of Hedgie, and that seemed to be an indication of Hedgie being the recruiter.

This post shows what caught my eye today:

I think it's interesting that LC dodged the NK but not the insanity bug. Surely there's some explanation for that.

I'm trying to go back through voting records and figure out where the Cybers have been hiding their votes while civs and Daleks were lynched, but it's tough sledding. Not many patterns.

Bass's record maybe stands out. He voted for known Daleks on Days 1-5: Enrique (5th and last vote), Enrique (3rd and last vote), Made (4th out of 5), Enrique (3rd, and this was the Enrique vs. Made lynch), Enrique again (he's finally lynched), and then he votes for Epi2.0 (6th, putting Epi in the lead over MM by one vote). He missed yesterday's Roxy vote.

So based on that voting record, Bass is either a really tuned in civvie, a baddie with a rolecheck, or the Master (based on his Epi vote, which could have been saving MM).

I don't see why my voting pattern stands out more then black rocks. I voted Rico from day one the only time I switched it was to vote Made who I thought Rico was defending earlier in the game. I also went back and read some of Made's older games where he acted completely different then he did in this game. Then I voted epig because the whole thing with the lie detector and the answer he gave mad me feel like he was avoiding giving an answer that could be check checked.

You certainly did vote Rico from day one. You have an even better record than Sabie! So you vote for Rico for two days, then vote for Made, using this:

Bass voted Enrique D1 and D2 and essentially everything else he has said was that Epig was acting like his normal self

He said he was considering a vote for Epig, then one line later he was his "normal self." I definitely thought this was pingy and, had Epignosis flipped bad, Bass would definitely have gotten my vote. But he was good after all so I don't know what to make of that

Has LC been around since that post? I thought it was weird that splints specifically asked him for his opinion on Chris, but I dunno. She did offer a reason, because apparently Elsie is really good at reading Chris, but it still seemed odd to me that she'd single him out.

Top 3 suspects? I'm gonna say:

1. Dom
2. keys
3. Chris, maybe? Elo (backing off this one a little bit since her survival)? I want to hear more from Sabie, too.

Not super confident about any of these, but that's all I got.

DF is flying wayyy under the radar but I don't know if that's enough to get my vote yet. I want to give him a chance to show up and see what he has to say.

Sorry I don't post a lot but I have been trying to get back in the swing of things. But I have one question for you what do you think of Made?
I had to look back at past games both you and Made played to learn how you guys play and I notice he changed his play style this game which make me think I will prob be voting him over you this lynch.

I going to stick with what I said a vote Made. I feel like the case on Hedge and Elo are nit the strongest so I would rather vote for someone I think is a baddie.

What happened to Rico? Didn't you vote for him for two days? But, at least you want to vote for a baddie, so you're changing your vote to Made.

But, you've been voting for Rico for two days, so I have to assume you feel somewhat sure about him as well. If you want to vote for a baddie, why not even mention him? Then, because you notice a change in Made's play style, you decide that you'll switch from Rico, to Made. (Notice, no mention of Rico seeming to be Made's teammate. )

After Snow Dog gets lynched, you post this:

Sick burn But damn at least I'm trying.

I mean thats what I'm doing. I said who I thought was bad . I gave my reasons sorry but this is how I play. Once I get a feel of how everyone is playing I will get more active.

Penny for your thoughts?

Thoughts on what?

Anything game related?

Well like I said I'm going to look at the people who voted Snow Dog . I still think made is bad reading his pass games when people were talking about lynching him when he was civ he would pretty much just say lynch me and you will see im civ this game he kinda did the opposite when he was talking to you so that caught my eye. I also am looking at Rico because of him defending Made I didn't really notice him doing that in the other games they played together so it makes me think they are on the same team. Thats all I got so far what about you.

So he's talking about Made like he intends to vote there next chance he gets. He even says at that point that he feels that they are on the same team.

Then, the next day, after Epig comes back:

Posted at 1:15 pm EST.

epig you make some good points about enrique i am going to be voting him also today . Just so everyone knows I'm going to dinner at a friends house tonight and won't be on till later and now I am trying to post on a phone with a broke screen thats i'm keeping it short now.

So, the night after Rico slips, your team decided to check Made, and "OH SHIT! We can't lynch Made. But we can lynch Rico, and NK Made with our NK tonight!" So you change your vote, AGAIN, back to Rico. And it's not for your previous reasons, it was the case that Epig made...

And, we see the beginning of a "voting-without-be-able-to-answer-questions-about-it" tactic that Bass seems to like to use.

Then, after Made came back unlynchable:

I really think that Made is the Emperor Dalek and thats why he didn't get lynched and I also think he voted himself to say Enrique from being exposed as a baddie.

Granted, there was a lot of speculation that Made was the Emperor. But you did say it...

Next lynch, you say we need to go after Rico, Made and him are on the same team, etc. Again, this was popular thread talk at this point. Obviously you would want to vote for Rico again, after Made survived the lynch, but your switch from Rico, to Made, and then back to Rico is what caught my eye.

You vote for Rico day 5, and manage to stay around afterward.

Day 6, I'll admit, get's a bit sticky.

Ok where to start . The two cases that make the most sense to me is the case on MM and the case on Epig 2.0. MP made some good points about MM maybe distancing from possible teammates. But the case on Epig is what I find myself agreeing with the most. The fact that he is an English teacher and knows how to word phrases is what makes me second guess him and his explanation for why he gave the statement he gave for the LD. I think he was trying to give a good enough answer without seeming like a liar to the LD.

You mention both MM and Epig. You end up putting your vote on Epig at 7:18 pm. But the thing is, I don't believe anyone, with the exception of one (TH? Snow?), knew the lynch was going to end at 8:30. So I think you could have been planning on changing your vote. Also, at the time you voted, MetalMarsh had 5 votes already, and you were Epig's 4th vote. Safe to do there, especially if you have the extra votes of the Cyber Head. Or, you're the recruiter, and you tried to save MM. But I don't think you're the recruiter.

Then, you miss the day 7 vote.

Then you vote for Hedgie on day 8... when Epig was in the lead with votes. Wait... didn't you just vote Epig on day 6? What changed? Why wouldn't you vote for Epig again? Instead, you give a hasty vote to Hedgie, and bolt.

Ok so I'm going out of town and won't get to the hotel till after the poll ends so I'm going to go ahead and vote hedgeowl because I think there is a good chance that that she was recruited Roxy or was recruited to the same team as Roxy.

There's that "I've-got-to-vote-now-and-leave-and-not-be-able-to-discuss-it-afterward" vote again.

Why vote Hedgie? If you had been paying attention to the thread, we were right in the middle of discussing who the recruiter could have been, and which of the three roles, the recruiter, The Master, and the Cybers, were the best to go after.

You march in, vote for Hedgie saying that you think she's the recruiter or has been recruited, then split.

TWO minutes after your post, I express a firm belief that Hedgie is not the recruiter. FOUR minutes after that, i provide solid evidence that makes it VERY difficult for her to be the recruiter.

But you were gone already, just like when you made that vote and dash for Rico after you switched from Rico to Made, and then back to Rico.

Also, I have to wonder if you put your vote on Hedgie to hide the extra votes from the Cyber body... But that's secondary to your seeming support of Epig, and voting in line with Epig, Sabie and Snow Dog.

I think you can be on team Cyber.

[Tangrowth]

It feels so good to be back!

Although a bit strange. But definitely good.

Who likes my new look???? I'm absolutely loving it!

Have to say, really nice job on Sabie. So awesome to finally nab a Cyberman! I feel this will help find some others too.

Not sure what I think of Epig 2.0 still, but I fear he isn't really baddie hunting (Chris as bad, really? I mean, he still could be the Master for all I know, but...) and his lack of opinion on Sabie could indicate a somewhat disinterested teammate. Not sure if I believe that's the case though because I didn't think that phrase was ever possible for Epig. I also doubt he would have said he didn't suspect her at the point in which he did. I will have to reexamine the way the lynch went down and also read over Sabie's posts to get a better idea of possible teammates, but surely they're out there. Probably at least one other "under the radar" type player. I will say though that based on a read of how D8 progressed, my eye is probably most firmly on Bass and Snow Dog for possible teammates, but I do need to look at it again.

I've thought about Gotrees, and in conjunction with the Sabie reveal, I just don't see him being on that team. I think he's a civvie just by matter of elimination.

Chris, I can tell you that your theory about Daisy being the 4th Dalek is completely off the mark. It was MR, I'm sure of it. Not only did Dana defend Daisy hard, I also defended both of them hard, and I'll explain why at a later time, but just take my word for it that I'm 99% sure it has been proven through certain actions that neither of them is bad. Since the Daleks are dead anyway, it's a bit of a moot point since we need to be looking for connections to Roxy and Cybers. That said, I do think you are right about the secret roles, or at least about there being one main secret recruiter. Having multiple recruiters would balance the game away from the civilians too much and it wouldn't align with what we know so far. I think the three secret roles make the most sense as separate independents.

Regarding thoughts some said about Rox dropping her Hedge suspicion meaning that Hedge is a recruiter, that could be a possibility I suppose, but I'm not seeing it as likely at all. Rox is a MUCH better player than that, even when she gets really busy, and given the way her post volume decreased in general, I don't think it was an attempt to flip flop on a suspicion after being recruited, even though I was initially inclined to think so. I also think it'd be really silly for Hedge to recruit her main accuser (remember John Hughes mafia, Dom? ). Both of these evaluations just makes it unlikely for Hedge to have recruited Rox, as it would be silly. I did think Hedge deserved examination before my death, but again, given recent results, I am not sure she is high on the priority list of being a Cyber or the recruiter for that matter. In regards to finding the recruiter... it seems akin to finding a needle in the haystack, but maybe a more thorough look at Roxy's posts might reveal a lead? Though something tells me Roxy wouldn't be that careless... Maybe a better question is who would want to recruit Roxy?

Snow Dog and Bass, can you elaborate why you think the opposite?

I don't remember seeing much from S~V~S this past cycle, so I'd like to hear where her thoughts are currently. I also really, really wish Dana and Gotrees would actually post.

And... I think that's all I have for now! It's awesome to be back.

Linki: Woah, holy caseitis Batman! Going to read that in a second here, Chris.

[Chris]

Well I think there is more than one recruiter. I think Hedgeowl is one. For all I know you are another or one of the secret roles. For now though my bet is you are The Master.

You think Hedgeowl is a recruiter, and you think that I can also be one, or a secret role.

Secret roles:

Lucy Saxon - That was MM, not me.

The Recruiter - According to you, that's Hedgie

??? - According to you, me. And you say that it's a recruiter role as well?

But what happened to me being Amy Pond or The Master?



Shit, you've found me out.

I'm a night killing, NK surviving, recruiting, vote manipulator with a secret role.


You guys are all fucked.

[Tangrowth]

That's a really intriguing case, Chris, there actually seems to be some good substance there.

Do you think that maybe team Cyber role checked Enrique or Made really early on, and then checked the other?

Linki: Also, Chris, why did you mention Amy Pond? I thought you were claiming to have Sarah Jane or Jack Harkness's role.

[Snow Dog]

Well I think there is more than one recruiter. I think Hedgeowl is one. For all I know you are another or one of the secret roles. For now though my bet is you are The Master.

You think Hedgeowl is a recruiter, and you think that I can also be one, or a secret role.

Secret roles:

Lucy Saxon - That was MM, not me.

The Recruiter - According to you, that's Hedgie

??? - According to you, me. And you say that it's a recruiter role as well?

But what happened to me being Amy Pond or The Master?



Shit, you've found me out.

I'm a night killing, NK surviving, recruiting, vote manipulator with a secret role.


You guys are all fucked.

No. I still think you are the Master. i was just being you and coming up with multiple ideas. for my next trick I will accuse everyone of being bad.

[Snow Dog]

That's a really intriguing case, Chris, there actually seems to be some good substance there.

Do you think that maybe team Cyber role checked Enrique or Made really early on, and then checked the other?

Linki: Also, Chris, why did you mention Amy Pond? I thought you were claiming to have Sarah Jane or Jack Harkness's role.

HE claims that. I call it BS

[Chris]

That's a really intriguing case, Chris, there actually seems to be some good substance there.

Do you think that maybe team Cyber role checked Enrique or Made really early on, and then checked the other?

Linki: Also, Chris, why did you mention Amy Pond? I thought you were claiming to have Sarah Jane or Jack Harkness's role.

Yes MP, I think that is very likely to be what happened. It's all lining up to be that so far...

No, Snow Dog said he thought I was Amy Pond, and I survived the NK because Rory saved me. But that would mean I was a civ, and he was interested in lynching a civ. So he had to back off of that fast, and go back to me being The Master.

Me bringing up Amy Pond was just a shot at all the different roles Snow is trying to put me in.

Well I think there is more than one recruiter. I think Hedgeowl is one. For all I know you are another or one of the secret roles. For now though my bet is you are The Master.

You think Hedgeowl is a recruiter, and you think that I can also be one, or a secret role.

Secret roles:

Lucy Saxon - That was MM, not me.

The Recruiter - According to you, that's Hedgie

??? - According to you, me. And you say that it's a recruiter role as well?

But what happened to me being Amy Pond or The Master?



Shit, you've found me out.

I'm a night killing, NK surviving, recruiting, vote manipulator with a secret role.


You guys are all fucked.

No. I still think you are the Master. i was just being you and coming up with multiple ideas. for my next trick I will accuse everyone of being bad.

Uh huh. It seems more like a desperate smear campaign as a last ditch effort.

Well I think there is more than one recruiter. I think Hedgeowl is one. For all I know you are another or one of the secret roles. For now though my bet is you are The Master.

You think Hedgeowl is a recruiter, and you think that I can also be one, or a secret role.

Secret roles:

Lucy Saxon - That was MM, not me.

The Recruiter - According to you, that's Hedgie

??? - According to you, me. And you say that it's a recruiter role as well?

But what happened to me being Amy Pond or The Master?



Shit, you've found me out.

I'm a night killing, NK surviving, recruiting, vote manipulator with a secret role.


You guys are all fucked.

No. I still think you are the Master. i was just being you and coming up with multiple ideas. for my next trick I will accuse everyone of being bad.

Well I think there is more than one recruiter. I think Hedgeowl is one. For all I know you are another or one of the secret roles. For now though my bet is you are The Master.

You think Hedgeowl is a recruiter, and you think that I can also be one, or a secret role.

Secret roles:

Lucy Saxon - That was MM, not me.

The Recruiter - According to you, that's Hedgie

??? - According to you, me. And you say that it's a recruiter role as well?

But what happened to me being Amy Pond or The Master?



Shit, you've found me out.

I'm a night killing, NK surviving, recruiting, vote manipulator with a secret role.


You guys are all fucked.

No. I still think you are the Master. i was just being you and coming up with multiple ideas. for my next trick I will accuse everyone of being bad.

LINKI @ Snow: I've "claimed" that since I was basically forced to say it. Nobody's really had anything solid to refute my claim.

And if you thought I was bullshitting, why didn't you vote for me on day 7? Was it because in lynching Roxy, you'd be eliminating her team, and gain their kill?

So you think Roxy is bad?

i do. And i am beginning to have doubts about Chris despite keys making me wan t to vote for him.

For now my vote is going on Roxy.

I had already claimed those roles, so if you didn't doubt me then, what changed that you doubt me now?

Keys, why are you suddenly so sure Mp was Civ?

I was sure for quite a while, just faked suspecting him in the hope of convincing the bad guys that he might be lynchable, so they wouldn't straight-up NK him. Doesn't appear to have worked. :/

How long? Was your first suspicion fake or genuine? And why did you wait to be asked about this? Why not say in your first post after MP's death that it had been a ruse?

Something is not right here.

But I think most of my suspicion is on Hedge. Roxy was recruited and cooled off on Hedge suddenly. I think she may be a recruiter.

Thank you BWT.

That clarifies things.

So reading back through MM's posts, he knew he had to find The Master, and he had a last man standing win condition.

Ok, so that means there probably won't be any posts from MM where we can notice a difference in attitude.




LC. Who do you think would be the best option for lynch tonight? A Cyberman? The Master? Or the mystery recruiter?


LINKI @ Snow: No, not always... I'll admit... it's odd. I'm having trouble buying his story lately as well.

I already suggested that MM might have been recruited by someone other than the Master. I think it quite possible that the Master doesn't recruit her but just finds her.

If I knew who the Master was I'd go for him. Otherwise a recruiter and third a Cyber. But any baddie is fine.

So hedge will possibly get my vote.

Then I make my case on Sabie and Epig, and suddenly:

I can see the point of a Chris vote. He could be the master and if so better to get the failed attempts out of the way early. Leave it too late and we'll be most of us dead and The Master will be unkillable. The sooner we chip away at him the better I feel. I don't want another Smaug scenario.

Out of nowhere, after talking about Hedgie... I get your vote?

Snow, can you explain this?

[Tangrowth]

Chris, thanks for elaborating, I must have missed that.

[Tangrowth]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

[Tangrowth]

I'm going to go read through D8 and the surrounding events again when I have a chance, but I'm leaning towards Snow Dog and Bass as possible Cyberman teammates and Epig as a ? (I just have a hard time believing he would behave the way he has with Sabie if they were teammates). What you bring to the picture, Chris, only makes me think we're both in agreement for good reason, and I think there's definitely something there. I would like to see what others think too though.

I have to go now, I have a lot to do today. So I'll try to get around to that whenever I can but it might be a while.

[Chris]

I really felt it was important to look into the Cybers, since they have a kill, and if the recruiter can get the kill like they did with Roxy.

If we take out the Cyber team, then the recruiter can't get their kill. (I hope)

Next, we need to figure out who The Master is. That's going to be a lot harder. With The Master seemingly only having one connection, who may or may not have made contact with him, it's not going to be as easy to find him based on thread or vote evidence.

It's going to be a bit of a "needle in a haystack" situation.

I guess I'll start reading MetalMarsh...

[Snow Dog]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

[Turnip Head]

My Cyberdude guesses, in order of most likely to least likely:

Epi2.0, Bass, Ninjabloopz, Gotrees, Snow Dog.

I've got my eye on Snowy but he's buried at the bottom of my suspect list.

[Black Rock]

I think that panoplied Master Black Rock Lucy Saxon thing could very well be indecorous a "recruit".

I reword target believe overhaul the Cyberman Body scherif a secret gymnosophist.

Excuse me?

[Dom]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

I do not understand your conjecture that Chris is Amy Pond given that no one died in place of him. My understanding is that Rory would have died instead.

[Turnip Head]

Because Bass asked at one point why his voting record was sketchier than BR's... The difference between Bass and Black Rock:

Day 2 votes:
Enrique
3
Epignosis (3), Black Rock (14), Bass_the_Clever (16)
14%


Day 3 votes:
Enrique
1
Black Rock (25)
3%

Made
5
Dom (4), sabie12 (5), nijuukyugou (13), Bass_the_Clever (17), Snow Dog (20)
17%


Day 4 votes:
Enrique
10
Epignosis (2), Black Rock (6), Bass_the_Clever (7), Snow Dog (8), sabie12 (12), Chris (15), Hedgeowl (22), keys56000000000 (23), Long Con (24), Spacedaisy (26) 36%


Analysis: BR consistently votes for her suspect Enrique until he's dead. Bass flip flops between Made and Enrique, he goes with whoever has a better chance of being lynched on a given day, and usually votes with Sabie.

[Chris]

My Cyberdude guesses, in order of most likely to least likely:

Epi2.0, Bass, Ninjabloopz, Gotrees, Snow Dog.

I've got my eye on Snowy but he's buried at the bottom of my suspect list.

What about Snow's voting for Rico on days 1 & 2, then voting Made day 3, then going back to Rico day 4?


And Dom, I understand that Rory would survive a night kill aimed at Amy.

ny negative night actions directed at Amy will be absorbed by Rory, up to and including nightkills. However, given Rory’s bravery and fortitude, he shrugs off the first nightkill attempt directed at either himself or Amy.

[Turnip Head]

Relevant quote from Day 3:

Sorry I don't post a lot but I have been trying to get back in the swing of things. But I have one question for you what do you think of Made?
I had to look back at past games both you and Made played to learn how you guys play and I notice he changed his play style this game which make me think I will prob be voting him over you this lynch.

Did Bass actually look back at past games to learn Made and Enri's playstyles in order to accuse them, or is Bass on the team that rolechecked them?

Bass cites Made changing his style from previous games as a reason to vote for Made over Rico. That's something Sabie did too, but Sabie actually has had game experience with Made, Sabie did not need to "look back at past games" to back up her suspicions.

[S~V~S]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

I do not understand your conjecture that Chris is Amy Pond given that no one died in place of him. My understanding is that Rory would have died instead.

Also don't get why Chris would role hint one of two civvies if he was a third civvie. That would make him look very suspish to the real Sarah Jane & Cap'n Jack, for no real gain.

Linki~ good point.

[Chris]

BR, did you say you felt very confident of Elo being a civ?

Can you elaborate?


LINKI @ TH: Good point. I agree Bass is likely Cyber. We just need to come together on who that last one is...

[Chris]

Also, SVS, any idea on who The Master or the recruiter could be?

Guesses even?

[Black Rock]

BR, did you say you felt very confident of Elo being a civ?

Can you elaborate?


LINKI @ TH: Good point. I agree Bass is likely Cyber. We just need to come together on who that last one is...

Unless she's recruited I am confidant that she is a civvie. It's hard to elaborate as it's hard to explain ones beliefs. When she was targeted for a kill she was a civvie. I don't know what's going on with these recruitments, I don't know if it was just one recruitment or unlimited. For now I trust her.

[Turnip Head]

My Cyberdude guesses, in order of most likely to least likely:

Epi2.0, Bass, Ninjabloopz, Gotrees, Snow Dog.

I've got my eye on Snowy but he's buried at the bottom of my suspect list.

What about Snow's voting for Rico on days 1 & 2, then voting Made day 3, then going back to Rico day 4?

I'll look into it after I watch some football.

[Chris]

BR, did you say you felt very confident of Elo being a civ?

Can you elaborate?


LINKI @ TH: Good point. I agree Bass is likely Cyber. We just need to come together on who that last one is...

Unless she's recruited I am confidant that she is a civvie. It's hard to elaborate as it's hard to explain ones beliefs. When she was targeted for a kill she was a civvie. I don't know what's going on with these recruitments, I don't know if it was just one recruitment or unlimited. For now I trust her.

I trust you in this game BR.

In doing some research, I've uncovered a scenario that could show Elo to possibly be The Master. It's a touch thin, but there's some meat too... Vote evidence type shit.

But if you're pretty certain, I'll put that one away.


How do you feel about Dana then? MP has vouched really heavily for her. And she's been MIA for days and days. Do you have reason to trust MP's assessment of her. And shit, while we're at it, MP is also saying Daisy was 100% civ. Do you agree with that?

[Turnip Head]

In doing some research, I've uncovered a scenario that could show Elo to possibly be The Master. It's a touch thin, but there's some meat too... Vote evidence type shit.

Wait what

[Chris]

Here's the thing. I know I'm not The Master. And if all the other players who survived NKs are not The Master... well, we've got troubles then. That would mean that The Master has all three life protections.

It's going to be tough to kill him. And with Strax having one more no civvie kill, another survival of his kill can be called a civ save again.

This is going to be tough to find and kill The Master. That's why I was sort of hoping that Elo could have been The Master. Then at least one life protect is gone.


LINKI @ TH: I said it's a touch thin. It's mostly voting records and a theorized scenario. I can lay it out, but I don't want to confuse things. Like I said, I trust BR, and if BR is saying that she feels pretty sure that Elo is civ, then I'll drop it.

[Black Rock]

BR, did you say you felt very confident of Elo being a civ?

Can you elaborate?


LINKI @ TH: Good point. I agree Bass is likely Cyber. We just need to come together on who that last one is...

Unless she's recruited I am confidant that she is a civvie. It's hard to elaborate as it's hard to explain ones beliefs. When she was targeted for a kill she was a civvie. I don't know what's going on with these recruitments, I don't know if it was just one recruitment or unlimited. For now I trust her.

I trust you in this game BR.

In doing some research, I've uncovered a scenario that could show Elo to possibly be The Master. It's a touch thin, but there's some meat too... Vote evidence type shit.

But if you're pretty certain, I'll put that one away.


How do you feel about Dana then? MP has vouched really heavily for her. And she's been MIA for days and days. Do you have reason to trust MP's assessment of her. And shit, while we're at it, MP is also saying Daisy was 100% civ. Do you agree with that?

If she's the Master I have been completely snowed. I don't think she is.

What do you think about Dom?

[Epignosis]

... could indicate a somewhat disinterested teammate...

I am never a disinterested teammate.

In doing some research, I've uncovered a scenario that could show Elo to possibly be The Master. It's a touch thin, but there's some meat too... Vote evidence type shit.

Wait what

If by now you are not convinced that Chris is bad news, I don't know what to tell you.

Off to D&D and FF. Go Panthers! lol

[Turnip Head]

I want to hear your scenario Chris.

[Chris]

What do you think about Dom?

I'm not sure. he's a player that I always suspect is bad, just like SVS. It's just with SVS, I've learned to stay away from her unless I feel really sure. I felt really sure about her in the last game I played with her, and DH and I got her lynched, and she was a baddie. I'm pretty sure I've learned how to read her. I thought that she was able to read me as well, which is why I asked for back from her. And when she didn't give it, I was worried about her. But then she started seeing what I was saying, and I think she sees that I'm playing my civ game.

Dom, however, it different. I see him doing his baddie hunting stuff, but then every once in a while, he'll say or do something that just sticks out. Unfortunately for me, the times he stuck out were when he seemed to put support behind a lynch for me when I thought that is was pretty obvious that I wasn't bad. So naturally I then start to think that he's purposefully ignoring facts, and gunning for me. And of course that then makes me feel he's bad.

I thought he could be a Cyber, and he still can be, but if he is, he's the body that's been found. And I'm not even sure that's how it works, so I'm hesitant to plug him in there.

I thought he could be the recruiter, but I didn't find ANYTHING between him and Roxy, except for the fact that he kept his vote on me on day 7, and didn't vote for her. But, that's kinda thin too... Then I thought about him being The Master. I suppose he could be. He's certainly seems to be doing his own thing. I can't tie his voting record to anything or anyone, but then again, I didn't analyze it yet either.

In summation, he could be a civ. (but everyone in this game is trying to come across as a civ) He could be the recruiter, but I don't think so. He could be Cyber, but I really don't think so. He could be The Master, and I wouldn't be shocked... but like I said... I thought I found some voting evidence in Elo...

I guess I'm off to examine Dom's voting record....


LINKI @ TH: Ok... let me build it. But first I'd like to take a look at Dom's votes

[Dom]

My Cyberdude guesses, in order of most likely to least likely:

Epi2.0, Bass, Ninjabloopz, Gotrees, Snow Dog.

I've got my eye on Snowy but he's buried at the bottom of my suspect list.

What about Snow's voting for Rico on days 1 & 2, then voting Made day 3, then going back to Rico day 4?


And Dom, I understand that Rory would survive a night kill aimed at Amy.

ny negative night actions directed at Amy will be absorbed by Rory, up to and including nightkills. However, given Rory’s bravery and fortitude, he shrugs off the first nightkill attempt directed at either himself or Amy.

Hm. I get it now. I forgot Rory is also not easy to kill.

[Snow Dog]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

I do not understand your conjecture that Chris is Amy Pond given that no one died in place of him. My understanding is that Rory would have died instead.

Also don't get why Chris would role hint one of two civvies if he was a third civvie. That would make him look very suspish to the real Sarah Jane & Cap'n Jack, for no real gain.

Linki~ good point.

I presume because he wouldn't be allowed to say who he was? So if he was Amy, he couldn't say so, but he wanted ppl to know he was civ so he offered to roles that he was not with similsr reason for surviving.

but maybe you are right and he wouldn't do that and he is indeed the Master.

Hosts Is it allowed for a player to say "I am either A or B"?

[Black Rock]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

I do not understand your conjecture that Chris is Amy Pond given that no one died in place of him. My understanding is that Rory would have died instead.

Also don't get why Chris would role hint one of two civvies if he was a third civvie. That would make him look very suspish to the real Sarah Jane & Cap'n Jack, for no real gain.

Linki~ good point.

I presume because he wouldn't be allowed to say who he was? So if he was Amy, he couldn't say so, but he wanted ppl to know he was civ so he offered to roles that he was not with similsr reason for surviving.

but maybe you are right and he wouldn't do that and he is indeed the Master.

Hosts Is it allowed for a player to say "I am either A or B"?

Really? Game play is game play and you shouldn't ask the hosts to play the game for you.

[Snow Dog]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

I do not understand your conjecture that Chris is Amy Pond given that no one died in place of him. My understanding is that Rory would have died instead.

Also don't get why Chris would role hint one of two civvies if he was a third civvie. That would make him look very suspish to the real Sarah Jane & Cap'n Jack, for no real gain.

Linki~ good point.

I presume because he wouldn't be allowed to say who he was? So if he was Amy, he couldn't say so, but he wanted ppl to know he was civ so he offered to roles that he was not with similsr reason for surviving.

but maybe you are right and he wouldn't do that and he is indeed the Master.

Hosts Is it allowed for a player to say "I am either A or B"?

Really? Game play is game play and you shouldn't ask the hosts to play the game for you.

I find myself unsure of the rules of mafia. i simply want it clarified whether this is role dropping or not. But if you like i withdraw the question and invite players opinions on the matter.

[Chris]

For starters, Dom's record is impeccable. (With the exception of day 7 of course )

Dom votes

Day 1 - Rico (baddie)
Day 2 - Made (baddie)
Day 3 - Made (baddie)
Day 4 - Made (baddie)
Day 5 - Rico (baddie)
Day 6 - Epig (baddie) But seriously... he's bad.
Day 7 - Chris (civvie)
Day 8 - Sabie (baddie)

While this is an excellent record, it's a touch suspicious just because it's SO good... The vote for me can be argued that it was contrived. And the for Sabie could have been distancing. He was the 4th vote for Epig, while MM had 2. But by that time MM was recruited. So if The Master had established BTSC with Lucy (MM), then it would have been broken once recruited. (i assume anyway) So if Dom was The Master, and they had a broken BTSC, I would think that The Master would be voting for MM. Dom didn't.

That doesn't exonerate him from being The Master, but it makes it less likely.

I think MM was recruited on day 5. I think that by day 5, he may have found The Master. Not great chances, but he may have.

Which leads me to Hedgie and Elo. If The Master did have a broken BTSC with Lucy (MM), I think there would be a vote to lynch him as well. Elo and Hedgie were the last two to vote for MM. Hedgie hasn't survived a NK, but Elo did. That made me look into Elo's voting.

Elo Votes

Day 1 - Juliets (civ)
Day 2 - Dana (?)
Day 3 - Dana (?)
Day 4 - Made (baddie)
Day 5 - Dana (?)
Day 6 - MetalMarsh (recruited Indy)
Day 7 - Roxy
Day 8 - Dana (?)

There's a LOT of Dana attention. A LOT! Elo even voted for Dana on day 8, when Dana hasn't been playing in days. But the only breaks in her Danaquest was for Made, who was the obvious vote for most, and for MM. Do I remember the case on MM right? MP built it based on MM's voting during the Rico lynch? Oh yeah, cuz he changed his vote from Made or Rico to Snow. I remember thinking it was a bit thin. Then I think Epig expounded on it, but we all know he was saving his own ass...

Anyway, this quote caught my eye:

I've been pushing the lynching of Dana (as my activity would allow) since Day 3.

Elo was really the only other one pushing for Dana so hard. I mean, it was damn near relentless. Then, MM starts to suspect her? His voting record says otherwise.

MetalMarsh votes

Day 1 - Missed
Day 2 - Elo (?)
Day 3 - Snow (civ)
Day 4 - Self
Day 5 - Snow (baddie)
Day 6 - Epig

I don't know. As I work on this, I'm starting to have questions. I think I'll post it anyway, just to bounce it off of TH.

My point was, it seemed to me that MM was recruited while he had BTSC with either Hedgie or Elo. Elo surviving that NK lends support to her being The Master. But it's starting to get cloudy. (I am watching football right now too)

It's those votes for him that I keep coming back to. But if Elo was The Master with broken BTSC with MM, I'm not seeing it in the thread evidence. The vote suggests it, but at one point, she said if everyone would vote for Dana, she would too. But between MM and Epig, she felt there was a better chance of Epig being good.

Hedgies vote seemed a little contrived as well... but I don't see anything tying Hedgie to MM. With me thinking that Daisy was bad, it makes Hedgies record look good in my eyes. If Daisy was good, it makes Hedgies voted for her look bad. I saw other strong evidence that makes me think Daisy was bad, so that makes me feel better about Hedgie's voting record.

I've confused the shit outta myself with this one. I've got some time to think on it some more. If I was pressed to guess who i thought was The Master right now, I'd guess Elo.

[Long Con]

I Yin Kahlan wrong with roleclaiming. It's part of hysterical. It's one of the best reasons to give the baddies Achilles dead role checker!

[Black Rock]

I do think you might be onto something, Chris. Honestly, I was starting to wonder about Snow Dog as D8 developed and I was dead, because he is vastly different from earlier, civvie Snow Dog 1.0 who was very unsure of himself -- and then, together with Bass, was trying to push Hedge being the recruiter, and I don't think I saw any real reason other than the obvious Rox-Hedge connection which doesn't make sense to me. This would have been maybe to keep heat off of their teammate, Sabie?

I am still unsure. My worry is that Chris is Amy Pond. My bigger worry is that he is the Master. As for Hedge....well it's a hunch. Not absolutely sure of it but what can one do? I've been told i follow other people leads. Well i've been doing that since Snow dog 1.0 and look what happene
d to me there. If I don't have any ideas myself of course i follow other peoples suspicions. Always have. always will.

SD 1 found it hard to get in the game. Big cast, new personalities, I had not played a while and i was rusty. i got lynched for that.
Now there are fewer here and i've warmed up.

I do not understand your conjecture that Chris is Amy Pond given that no one died in place of him. My understanding is that Rory would have died instead.

Also don't get why Chris would role hint one of two civvies if he was a third civvie. That would make him look very suspish to the real Sarah Jane & Cap'n Jack, for no real gain.

Linki~ good point.

I presume because he wouldn't be allowed to say who he was? So if he was Amy, he couldn't say so, but he wanted ppl to know he was civ so he offered to roles that he was not with similsr reason for surviving.

but maybe you are right and he wouldn't do that and he is indeed the Master.

Hosts Is it allowed for a player to say "I am either A or B"?

Really? Game play is game play and you shouldn't ask the hosts to play the game for you.

I find myself unsure of the rules of mafia. i simply want it clarified whether this is role dropping or not. But if you like i withdraw the question and invite players opinions on the matter.

I guess everyone has their own opinion on this. Role claiming can be true or false and it's up to the individual player to believe it or not. One team had a dead role checker which would help them false role claim knowing what civvies were dead or not.

[Snow Dog]

Fair enough BR.

[Turnip Head]

Chris, have you had time to check Dom's voting record and put together your theorized scenario about Eloh?

[Turnip Head]

Wow somehow I didn't catch it