Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Hedgeowl]

Black Rock was also killed by The Master very soon after stating that she thinks Dom is The Master, but has no proof.

Thought that might factor in.

I do not remember that post from her. It would seem weird for Dom to kill her if that were the case though...

I'm curious, Hedge, what do you mean by "weird"?

Weird, odd, strange, obvious, peculiar.

I'm curious Hedge, what do you mean by odd, strange, obvious, peculiar?



Just kidding.

I always felt that people who automatically discount a kill because it would be obvious are missing the beauty of hiding in plain site.

[Hedgeowl]

Black Rock was also killed by The Master very soon after stating that she thinks Dom is The Master, but has no proof.

Thought that might factor in.

I do not remember that post from her. It would seem weird for Dom to kill her if that were the case though...

I'm curious, Hedge, what do you mean by "weird"?

Weird, odd, strange, obvious, peculiar.

I just mean, do you think it is something I wouldn't do?

Ah, ok. I actually am not sure, but I am wondering whether you would or not.

[Chris]

*EBWOP
Ha ha... ok, you did, the next day, but then you never did again.

My point was... your point didn't mean anything.

[Epignosis]

Epig, why did you vote for me on day 7, and never vote for me again? And the company you're keeping in that vote doesn't look too great....

Until you get your facts right, I'm not answering this.

[keys56000000000]

BR who are your top suspects and why?

I suspect DFaraday. Something weird happened last night that I can't find how it would happen so I am still unsure about him. I also suspect Epig and Dom. Dom is actually my main suspect for The Master. I just can't pull anything together to support my gut feel on that.

There ya go!

The weird thing could be The Ood's power working on BR.

[Chris]

We're both bad, but you vote for me. And then, after MM is lynched, you never vote for me again? Ever?

That's distancing 101. "My teammate and Player E are both bad, but I'm going to vote Player E for now."

Literally five other people voted for you just like Dom and never voted you again. Are we all bad too?

Opinions change.



Aren't you the guy who voted for me twice in a row and now just recently said you thought I was civ?

[Epignosis]

We're both bad, but you vote for me. And then, after MM is lynched, you never vote for me again? Ever?

That's distancing 101. "My teammate and Player E are both bad, but I'm going to vote Player E for now."

Literally five other people voted for you just like Dom and never voted you again. Are we all bad too?

Opinions change.



Aren't you the guy who voted for me twice in a row and now just recently said you thought I was civ?

Opinions change.

Facts don't.

[Epignosis]

And I'm not accusing Dom of being bad (for the second time). I'm accusing him of being The Master. So no, Chris, not all of you are The Master.

Holy shit.

[Chris]

But Dom not voting for you again doesn't make him The Master any more than it makes the rest of us.

I'm trying to see your point of view Epig. I want Dom dead as much as you do, but I want him to be bad when he dies.

Your case does nothing to say that he's The Master.

It just showed that he thought you were bad at one point, and then didn't later. Or he prioritized someone ahead of you.

Holy shit indeed.

[Chris]

By the way, what is this, like the third person you said was The Master tonight alone?

[Epignosis]

But Dom not voting for you again doesn't make him The Master any more than it makes the rest of us.

I'm trying to see your point of view Epig. I want Dom dead as much as you do, but I want him to be bad when he dies.

Your case does nothing to say that he's The Master.

It just showed that he thought you were bad at one point, and then didn't later. Or he prioritized someone ahead of you.

Holy shit indeed.

I didn't say Dom not voting for me again makes him The Master. Was that my claim? No.

Now you're telling me what Dom is thinking. Do you know what Dom is thinking Chris?

[Epignosis]

By the way, what is this, like the third person you said was The Master tonight alone?

You're welcome to read my posts if you want. It's certainly less of a challenge than reading through the swamps you post.

[Chris]

I didn't say Dom not voting for me again makes him The Master. Was that my claim? No.

Now you're telling me what Dom is thinking. Do you know what Dom is thinking Chris?

You didn't? I could swear that's what this was:

And I'm not accusing Dom of being bad (for the second time). I'm accusing him of being The Master. So no, Chris, not all of you are The Master.

Holy shit.

Dom, why did you vote for me this Day, but you never voted for me again?

Epignosis 2.0
7
Roxy (9), S~V~S (10), Chris (11), Dom (12), Long Con (14), Bass_the_Clever (19), Metalmarsh89 (22) 32%

MetalMarsh
7
MovingPictures07 (7), DFaraday (8), juliets (13), Epignosis (16), Snow Dog (17), Elohcin (20), Hedgeowl (21) 32%

I believe that was the lynch I was in NYC for and was not really paying attention tbh

Perhaps.

OK guys! I'm here right now. However, today I am doing quite a bit. I'm going up to Morningside Heights, coming back down for dinner, and then seeing Hedwig. That puts me at around 10:00 get back time. I have no idea if we're gonna do anything else, so I must vote now. I feel really crappy for not participating today, but this is my mini-vacation, so I don't actually feel bad.

Thank you for the summaries, everyone. I read those. I feel quite compelled about both MM and Epig, to be honest. I think Epig is being a bit too pedantic, a bit too difficult, and a bit too rude to actually be trying to lynch baddies at this point. I also think MM could have been distancing. I will now vote for Epig. I honestly think they're both bad.

We're both bad, but you vote for me. And then, after MM is lynched, you never vote for me again? Ever?

That's distancing 101. "My teammate and Player E are both bad, but I'm going to vote Player E for now."

[Epignosis]

Nope. Try again.

[Chris]

So...

Eloh died the first time. She ain't The Master.

DF apparently hinted at something or other (I don't understand how, but apparently there's a lot of that going around). So he ain't The Master.

According to my spreadsheet, that means The Master is either Dom or Nijuu.

And one of these two people shall be receiving my vote.

Epig's evidence has spoken.

His spreadsheet says Dom is The Master, and that's all the evidence he needs.

That, and Dom voted fro him on day 6, and then never again.



That's about all I can take for tonight.

[Dom]

Dom, why did you vote for me this Day, but you never voted for me again?

Epignosis 2.0
7
Roxy (9), S~V~S (10), Chris (11), Dom (12), Long Con (14), Bass_the_Clever (19), Metalmarsh89 (22) 32%

MetalMarsh
7
MovingPictures07 (7), DFaraday (8), juliets (13), Epignosis (16), Snow Dog (17), Elohcin (20), Hedgeowl (21) 32%

I believe that was the lynch I was in NYC for and was not really paying attention tbh

Perhaps.

OK guys! I'm here right now. However, today I am doing quite a bit. I'm going up to Morningside Heights, coming back down for dinner, and then seeing Hedwig. That puts me at around 10:00 get back time. I have no idea if we're gonna do anything else, so I must vote now. I feel really crappy for not participating today, but this is my mini-vacation, so I don't actually feel bad.

Thank you for the summaries, everyone. I read those. I feel quite compelled about both MM and Epig, to be honest. I think Epig is being a bit too pedantic, a bit too difficult, and a bit too rude to actually be trying to lynch baddies at this point. I also think MM could have been distancing. I will now vote for Epig. I honestly think they're both bad.

We're both bad, but you vote for me. And then, after MM is lynched, you never vote for me again? Ever?

That's distancing 101. "My teammate and Player E are both bad, but I'm going to vote Player E for now."

I'm sorry you feel that way.

But Dom not voting for you again doesn't make him The Master any more than it makes the rest of us.

I'm trying to see your point of view Epig. I want Dom dead as much as you do, but I want him to be bad when he dies.

Your case does nothing to say that he's The Master.

It just showed that he thought you were bad at one point, and then didn't later. Or he prioritized someone ahead of you.

Holy shit indeed.

You want me dead?

[Dom]

I need to do homework. Bie.

[Chris]

It was a joke Dom...

[Epignosis]

So...

Eloh died the first time. She ain't The Master.

DF apparently hinted at something or other (I don't understand how, but apparently there's a lot of that going around). So he ain't The Master.

According to my spreadsheet, that means The Master is either Dom or Nijuu.

And one of these two people shall be receiving my vote.

Epig's evidence has spoken.

His spreadsheet says Dom is The Master, and that's all the evidence he needs.

That, and Dom voted fro him on day 6, and then never again.



That's about all I can take for tonight.

When a clown laughs at you, you have to laugh back?

[Epignosis]

Yes, I believe I am correct.

Sorry Dom, you can't defend against being the LMS independent, but that's the nature of the role.

[zeek]

I'm not saying I buy Epignosis' "case," but it made me think of this post:

In addition, while I love the secrets discussion going on, let's not forget that we have to lynch someone and that there are PLENTY of baddie roles to decode here.
I'm actually eyeing zeek for his focus on the Master, ignoring all other baddie roles, and even pointing out that the other baddies' secrets were up...

Which led to my early argument with Dom. Half the day period was left and a part of me still thinks he didn't want us decoding. He accused me of focusing on the Master, worried perhaps? And got pretty pissy with me when I suggested he was discouraging us working on the secrets.

Epignosis 2.0
7
Roxy (9), S~V~S (10), Chris (11), Dom (12), Long Con (14), Bass_the_Clever (19), Metalmarsh89 (22) 32%

Quite frankly, looking at those who voted Epignosis when Metalmarsh was lynched, almost all of those roles are known or heavily hinted at. This has got my attention tbh.

[Dom]

I'm not saying I buy Epignosis' "case," but it made me think of this post:

In addition, while I love the secrets discussion going on, let's not forget that we have to lynch someone and that there are PLENTY of baddie roles to decode here.
I'm actually eyeing zeek for his focus on the Master, ignoring all other baddie roles, and even pointing out that the other baddies' secrets were up...

Which led to my early argument with Dom. Half the day period was left and a part of me still thinks he didn't want us decoding. He accused me of focusing on the Master, worried perhaps? And got pretty pissy with me when I suggested he was discouraging us working on the secrets.

Epignosis 2.0
7
Roxy (9), S~V~S (10), Chris (11), Dom (12), Long Con (14), Bass_the_Clever (19), Metalmarsh89 (22) 32%

Quite frankly, looking at those who voted Epignosis when Metalmarsh was lynched, almost all of those roles are known or heavily hinted at. This has got my attention tbh.

I'm sorry that's what you think, because it's gonna lead you to a shitty conclusion.

I was right in our argument-- a civvie was lynched because the entire day was spent decoding and none of the day was spent baddie hunting until the last few hours. I believe that was the Epig lynch? Maybe Snow Dog? I don't remember, but I was right. I am interested in killing baddies. I am interested in getting results. Decoding is fine, but we spent almost a whole day doing it just to have a civvie lynched.
I don't know how that's relevant. I thought you were focussing on the Master because you could have been bad. I think I was wrong about that. Sorry?

[Tangrowth]

[zeek]

I'm sorry that's what you think, because it's gonna lead you to a shitty conclusion.

I was right in our argument-- a civvie was lynched because the entire day was spent decoding and none of the day was spent baddie hunting until the last few hours. I believe that was the Epig lynch? Maybe Snow Dog? I don't remember, but I was right. I am interested in killing baddies. I am interested in getting results. Decoding is fine, but we spent almost a whole day doing it just to have a civvie lynched.
I don't know how that's relevant. I thought you were focussing on the Master because you could have been bad. I think I was wrong about that. Sorry?

You were not right. A poor result is a poor result. We could have spent the entire day period talking and nothing could have changed the outcome.

You don't see how somebody criticising somebody else for decoding the Master's secrets is relevant?

[zeek]

Dom, respond to the MM-Epi lynch votes. I almost let you get away with ignoring them

[zeek]

Epignosis 2.0
7
Roxy (9), S~V~S (10), Chris (11), Dom (12), Long Con (14), Bass_the_Clever (19), Metalmarsh89 (22) 32%
Roxy - Dalek
SVS - heavily hinted civ, nobody calling her out on her hint
Chris - heavily hinted civ, nobody calling him out on his hint
Dom - ?
Long Con 1.0 - CIV, or couldn't replace back in
Bass - Cyber
Metalmarsh - The Master's best pal.

Only one missing peice to that jigsaw.

[zeek]

Am I going fucking mad here? Nobody else is going to say anything?

He is, isn't he? Dom's the fucking Master.

[Dom]

I'm sorry that's what you think, because it's gonna lead you to a shitty conclusion.

I was right in our argument-- a civvie was lynched because the entire day was spent decoding and none of the day was spent baddie hunting until the last few hours. I believe that was the Epig lynch? Maybe Snow Dog? I don't remember, but I was right. I am interested in killing baddies. I am interested in getting results. Decoding is fine, but we spent almost a whole day doing it just to have a civvie lynched.
I don't know how that's relevant. I thought you were focussing on the Master because you could have been bad. I think I was wrong about that. Sorry?

You were not right. A poor result is a poor result. We could have spent the entire day period talking and nothing could have changed the outcome.

You don't see how somebody criticising somebody else for decoding the Master's secrets is relevant?

I didn't criticize you for releasing specifically the Master's secrets, but rather for seemingly to be exclusively focussed on the Master. I wondered why you seemed to avert attention away from other teams' secrets. If I were the Master, hello WIFOM, I likely would have helped you solve those secrets given that I would have known them.

But I did not.

I was absolutely right though. You can deny it all you want, have fun.



What would you like me to say?
I did respond to them, Zeek, please do not act like I did not.
I was in NYC for Columbus Day weekend and spent the entire weekend with my best friend. I hardly paid attention. I had an amazing time. I voted Epig because I honestly didn't really know either case all that well. I can defend against this with WIFOM, but that's entirely unproductive. I don't know what you'd really expect from that.


Holy shit, zeek, let me post!
And other people ARE saying things?

[keys56000000000]

zeek, I'm confused.

[Dom]

Epignosis 2.0
7
Roxy (9), S~V~S (10), Chris (11), Dom (12), Long Con (14), Bass_the_Clever (19), Metalmarsh89 (22) 32%
Roxy - Dalek
SVS - heavily hinted civ, nobody calling her out on her hint
Chris - heavily hinted civ, nobody calling him out on his hint
Dom - ?
Long Con 1.0 - CIV, or couldn't replace back in
Bass - Cyber
Metalmarsh - The Master's best pal.

Only one missing peice to that jigsaw.

I'm sorry but this is a bit of a misleading thing to say.
Just because you know everyone else's role in a group of people that voted for Epig... means that I'm the Master based on other lynch candidates?
There's a lot of WIFOM loaded into this statement.

[zeek]

There's three people reading this thread, not including hiddens. They're not saying anything.

I'm talking about the fact that every vote has a heavily implied or known alignment, except yours.

As for the rest of it, we can argue till the cows come home. You weren't right though and it's funny to me that you're not getting angry like last time we disagreed. You're so caught.

linki - keys, he's the Master.
more linki - Okay, WIFOM. Doesn't make it untrue. Everyone can come to their own conclusion, Master.

[Epignosis]

I'm sorry that's what you think, because it's gonna lead you to a shitty conclusion.

I was right in our argument-- a civvie was lynched because the entire day was spent decoding and none of the day was spent baddie hunting until the last few hours. I believe that was the Epig lynch? Maybe Snow Dog? I don't remember, but I was right. I am interested in killing baddies. I am interested in getting results. Decoding is fine, but we spent almost a whole day doing it just to have a civvie lynched.
I don't know how that's relevant. I thought you were focussing on the Master because you could have been bad. I think I was wrong about that. Sorry?

You were not right. A poor result is a poor result. We could have spent the entire day period talking and nothing could have changed the outcome.

You don't see how somebody criticising somebody else for decoding the Master's secrets is relevant?

I didn't criticize you for releasing specifically the Master's secrets, but rather for seemingly to be exclusively focussed on the Master. I wondered why you seemed to avert attention away from other teams' secrets. If I were the Master, hello WIFOM, I likely would have helped you solve those secrets given that I would have known them.

But I did not.

I was absolutely right though. You can deny it all you want, have fun.



What would you like me to say?
I did respond to them, Zeek, please do not act like I did not.
I was in NYC for Columbus Day weekend and spent the entire weekend with my best friend. I hardly paid attention. I had an amazing time. I voted Epig because I honestly didn't really know either case all that well. I can defend against this with WIFOM, but that's entirely unproductive. I don't know what you'd really expect from that.


Holy shit, zeek, let me post!
And other people ARE saying things?

Ah-ah-ah.

You voted me because you didn't really know either case that well? That's not what you said then. "I feel quite compelled about both MM and Epig, to be honest."

That's the fucking OPPOSITE of "I honestly didn't really know either case all that well."

[Dom]

Ah-ah-ah.

You voted me because you didn't really know either case that well? That's not what you said then. "I feel quite compelled about both MM and Epig, to be honest."

That's the fucking OPPOSITE of "I honestly didn't really know either case all that well."

Not particularly.
I was quite compelled based on what I knew. I knew not a lot. I read summaries quickly and honestly didn't give a fuck because it was one of the best weekends I've had in a long while.
As a master of language, I would expect you realize that those two statements are not mutually exclusive.

[Dom]

Epig, I am curious, why the sudden realization that I must be the Master? Why didn't you realize this about the difference between myself and blooper earlier? Why so suddenly in the middle of day 11?

[zeek]

And because he knows he can't paint me as the Master, he switches to the focus to Epignosis. Nice, shrewd move.

[Dom]

And because he knows he can't paint me as the Master, he switches to the focus to Epignosis. Nice, shrewd move.

No?
I don't see why me asking that makes me want to lynch Epig?
Why would I paint you as the Master?
WTF?

[Epignosis]

Epig, I am curious, why the sudden realization that I must be the Master? Why didn't you realize this about the difference between myself and blooper earlier? Why so suddenly in the middle of day 11?

Because I went to work and got home and watched a movie and cooked supper and watched Gotham and wrote the Zelda post?

You call it sudden. I call it thinking.

[zeek]

And that is a response to me saying he isn't getting angry this time, another shrewd move.

Use your hypnosis elsewhere, Time Lord.

[keys56000000000]

Zeek, Dom is most lkely the only player not accounted for that voted Epig, I agree, but how do you know The Master voted Epig that day?

[Dom]

Epig, I am curious, why the sudden realization that I must be the Master? Why didn't you realize this about the difference between myself and blooper earlier? Why so suddenly in the middle of day 11?

Because I went to work and got home and watched a movie and cooked supper and watched Gotham and wrote the Zelda post?

You call it sudden. I call it thinking.

Just curious. I wanted to see if your thinking would line up with what I'd expect.
It did.

And that is a response to me saying he isn't getting angry this time, another shrewd move.

Use your hypnosis elsewhere, Time Lord.

What?

[zeek]

We don't. The fact MM said he wanted the Master dead (for now) makes me believe he he was recruited by the Master.

[Dom]

Zeek, to address something that I don't think I addressed earlier you said that I didn't address:

WIFOM does not make an argument wrong; however, basing an argument on WIFOM makes it an inarguable argument in either direction.

[zeek]

WIFOM does not make an argument wrong; however, basing an argument on WIFOM makes it an inarguable argument in either direction.

Stating that you cared who was lynched when we were decoding, but didn't when you were voting to lynch Epig 1.0, is illogical.

You're argument that it is WIFOM is argument enough, is it not?

[Dom]

WIFOM does not make an argument wrong; however, basing an argument on WIFOM makes it an inarguable argument in either direction.

Stating that you cared who was lynched when we were decoding, but didn't when you were voting to lynch Epig 1.0, is illogical.

You're argument that it is WIFOM is argument enough, is it not?

I didn't care because of RL circumstances tbh. I mean.. I cared, but my real life was way too entertaining to actually make any real decision. I did my best.


I don't really know what you're saying below this though.

[zeek]

I have stated my argument. You have said it's WIFOM. Your argument against my argument, is argument enough.

[Dom]

I have stated my argument. You have said it's WIFOM. Your argument against my argument, is argument enough.

What?

I am saying that a lot of the allegations against me are based in WIFOM because they are.
I am saying that I can't really defend against that nor can anyone really further that argument more than just an allegation based on possibilities.

[Dom]

I have stated my argument. You have said it's WIFOM. Your argument against my argument, is argument enough.

What?

I am saying that a lot of the allegations against me are based in WIFOM because they are.
I am saying that I can't really defend against that nor can anyone really further that argument more than just an allegation based on possibilities.

replace possibilities with circumstance.

[zeek]

Dom, enough of this, you are the Master.

You're the only unaccounted for vote in my book. You're not even arguing that Metalmarsh was recruited by the recruiter. Why? Because you know he wasn't, because you recruited him.

[zeek]

Okay guys, you're unconvinced he's the Master? What about the recruiter?

I still think there's something to him trying to stop me decoding the Master's secrets, but look at the Epi 1.0 lynch again.

Roxy and Metalmarsh voting the same way. A big question mark over Dom.

I think he's the Master, but there's a chance he's the recruiter even if I am wrong.

[Dom]

Dom, enough of this, you are the Master.

You're the only unaccounted for vote in my book. You're not even arguing that Metalmarsh was recruited by the recruiter. Why? Because you know he wasn't, because you recruited him.

Why would I argue about something I know literally nothing about?
I criticized several players for assuming information about this exact situation.

Okay guys, you're unconvinced he's the Master? What about the recruiter?

I still think there's something to him trying to stop me decoding the Master's secrets, but look at the Epi 1.0 lynch again.

Roxy and Metalmarsh voting the same way. A big question mark over Dom.

I think he's the Master, but there's a chance he's the recruiter even if I am wrong.

You are.
I believe we are at an impasse.