Lawyers, Guns and Money- [TOWN WINS!]

[robyn]

1) doc was obviously on dennis
2) i'm gonna play more tomorrow cause i'm still frustrated we have had v/v wagons for 2 cycles

Why is that so obvious?

Everyone who has said something about me minus Scotty has said civ. Also it would've made Lucy look really bad after we had our fight, which assuming Lucy is civ would make it obvious to her.

I will be very surprised if the kill target was not me.

why lmao, what have you done

[Scotty]

i'd just like to take a moment to say that you're very curvaceous @Scotty

thanks

I had a whole sheet of peppermint bark yesterday

[robyn]

@Dennis

I already partially answered this. You didn’t always get the answers. That didn’t read like you had BTS partners to me. Also if your faking naivety, you wouldn’t have kept asking questions for fear of looking TOO naive.

I played a long time, and catching BTS slips is kinda my thing. I don’t think you have BTS.

And I played with your mom for many years, we ran a site together for a time, we hosted together, we were pretty close irl. When we play together, one of the first things i do is sort her, and I bet she does the same.

I am not seeing anything to make me think she’s bad. She’s more serious and her fun posts feel more forced. Not seeing that.

Now really bbl

This reminds me of Lucy's "slip" or not slip when she said not to lynch scotty on a false dichotomy or something like that. No one responded to me and I failed to go back to it, partially because I was thinking if lucy and scotty were 2 wolves that Sabi was the 3rd.

ratio

[Scotty]

Got through almost all posts in game, will be somewhat around rest of day but have a D&D session then will be watching football, so divided focus.

Gone back to read it again:

Kate - holy bad countertrain, wtf guys.
Sabi - Sean, golden, SVS or Lucy contains a wolf. Also, ties are bad.
Scotty = not committing, sure looks like a seanzie save to me. Rejects "SVS is obvtown" arguments.

Dennis - "with marmot dead, I'm not certain how to read the Wilgy wagon"
Seanzie - "not gonna dome sabi, that's derailing the thread, also SVS is obvitown"
SVS - Just explains her thinking

Instinct says Kate might just be caught up in that first bundle, it's not like examination of that group is bad. But it's quite central to why scotty and sabi are forefront of my mind today.

Conversely, the bottom group (people on the wilgy train) don't try to control the narrative at all.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

I find the bolded rather amusing as controlling the narrative has been a large part of your play this game, including this post.

If at least one of scotty and sabi isn’t a wolf I’ll bite my hat twice.

One down, one to go. Don't see a Scotty push so far this day though, curious.

-He racked up a ton of votes by midday and no one was seemingly budging
-He refused to offer alternatives with any merit or explanation
-He remained aloof and simultaneously snippy at times
-His unvoting means nothing because he was already in the lead looking to croak. But doing so broadcasts “I’m not afraid to die, come at me” which is legitimate gambit that I see mafia do all the time.

But yeah; there’s not a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf

Dude...

Scotty: Seanzie, Who is a good alternative? Sabi? Me?

Me: You apparently already know what my answer would be.

Scotty: Seanzie won't give an alternative.

Think for a second, what did I actually say to your question?

I’ve been down this path with you before. Time is a circle jfc

When I go to the doctor for a pain in my chest, I don’t want the doctor to ask me what I think the problem is.

I offered you the chance yesterday to do some casing and alternative names, and offered a few names that I was assuming you suspected. Your response was very similar to this one.

This is how I get prescribed liver medication for my plaque psoriasis

This is my new favorite post in this game

Townie feeling frustration

Not at all

I used sarcastic orange for that statement by the by

Not gonna lie I'm still confused. Do you think Seanzie is doing things that make sense as wolf or not?

Sorry. My sarcasm was coming on strong.

It was a response to Golden not finding a single shred of evidence that Seanzie could be wolf, and I was listing legitimately wolfy things that one could stop and go “yeah, that doesn’t sound towny”

Whether or not I think he is wolf at the present? Im not sure. Leaning not? I think a lot of those could just be Seanzie. I have horrible memory and don’t remember if that is behavior he normally exhibits as town

Yeah it comes off rather disingenuous to act as if there are no valid reasons to suspect Seanzie.

Oh, it's a gut read. Duly noted

Yeah, I have said if one isbad its Lucy.

Marmot is flipped
I know it’s not me
Seanzie is my top town at this point
SVS is also my top town at this point. They’re fighting for it.
I feel like the Dennis vote is clean.

I’m vibing town on Lucy but there’s some little reasons for doubt.

Also let me add to this that a clean wilgy wagon developing is the wolves wet dream. I'm not sure why any of them would jump on. Having it clean creates such a good opportunity to steer direction, which is exactly why I think it happened.

Reasons are simple : in a wolf Sean world, they obviously want to save their packmate. In a town Sean world, they're hoping to off a potential threat in Wilgy while the opportunity is ripe and they can act like they didn't think it'd go over, and then hope that town wants to flip the counterwagon the next day for the 2 for 1 special.

Everyone who has said something about me minus Scotty has said civ. Also it would've made Lucy look really bad after we had our fight, which assuming Lucy is civ would make it obvious to her.

I will be very surprised if the kill target was not me.

By the way, my point in saying this is not 'the kill target was me'.

It's that self-perceiving that you were at risk and that the doc saved you is normal.

But I don't think the answer is obvious. Could be you, could be me, could be someone else. The doc might have saved themselves for all we know.

It's normal for a townie when they have reason to believe wolves think of them as a threat, which can be just felt as a known power town, but after being on two mislim wagons to start you'd think there would be some self-doubt that doc/wolves are prioritizing you.

I could vote soneji independent of my sabi read.

Why?

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

Would you not say that if wolfchat was guiding someone coming into d2, going after Seanzie at the time of my post would be advised against considering there were multiple people defending him and momentum wasn't towards a Seanzie elim?

Do find it amusing that anyone thinks I'm being coached in general.

Pingy ping ping pingy ping

What’s pingy about it?

I found myself nodding along with it, like I’ve seemed to do with most of Soneji’s posts this game

It has exactly one purpose:

“Don’t listen to golden, he’s miseliming civs, stuff he says is probably bad”

Most of all, ‘nah, golden, you weren’t the kill target’ well fuckity fuck fuck fuck, why even go there?

Only… come on soneji, tell me who the wolf is on the wilgy wagon?

The whole post wasn’t about you, but I hear you.

I think having a mild level of suspicion on you is healthy in general

[robyn]

Scotty

I badly want scotty to be town, and there's a decent chance I'm just paranoid. I'm just sticking him in a category of his own because I'm finding it very difficult to find the centre around which to trust him.

Falcon

Falcon has given me plenty of content to actually get a decent read, and I can't get one at all. Others giving me meta takes on Falcon would be helpful.

so you want to trust scotty but you have no reason to?

i find falcon a hard read myself but i lean town on him rn, he's been continuously applying pressure to me and others and i don't see mafia incentive for it because he hasn't been doing it unnecessarily, and mafia would've preferred me getting lynched instead of sabi (but this depends on scotty's alignment, if me and scotty are v/v it's a death sentence for either of us if the other dies)

[robyn]

i'd just like to take a moment to say that you're very curvaceous @Scotty

thanks

I had a whole sheet of peppermint bark yesterday

i will bed you

[Scotty]

Actually, I read back the post, it is all about you. I’m going to work and need a break from reading because I can’t formulate arguments.

It happens with my wife too- her super power is framing arguments in such a way that makes sense and my eyes glaze over. It’s Covid brain fog, even though I’ve had it since like 2007

[Golden]

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning.

So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

If anyone brought this up before now, then a cookie for them.

cookie for you. I didn’t think of this and I think this is an excellent point. Town cred for you

[VOTE: splints] aubergine

Is this like giving me town cred if I coulda solved the wolf tildes in anniversary?

I’m not sure why articulating a wolf mindset it necessarily town-leaning. Feels to me like a thing wolf me would do for town cred.

[robyn]

@Dennis

I already partially answered this. You didn’t always get the answers. That didn’t read like you had BTS partners to me. Also if your faking naivety, you wouldn’t have kept asking questions for fear of looking TOO naive.

I played a long time, and catching BTS slips is kinda my thing. I don’t think you have BTS.

And I played with your mom for many years, we ran a site together for a time, we hosted together, we were pretty close irl. When we play together, one of the first things i do is sort her, and I bet she does the same.

I am not seeing anything to make me think she’s bad. She’s more serious and her fun posts feel more forced. Not seeing that.

Now really bbl

This reminds me of Lucy's "slip" or not slip when she said not to lynch scotty on a false dichotomy or something like that. No one responded to me and I failed to go back to it, partially because I was thinking if lucy and scotty were 2 wolves that Sabi was the 3rd.

It was sabi who said not to do that. And it was one of the things I didn't like about their exit, because just because I was saying "I think at least one of sabi/scotty is a wolf", does not mean I was setting up a dichotomy. I was setting up a theory of the game. But perhaps sabi, as something of a self-confessed tunneler, sees the game through the lens of others setting up to tunnel. I did actually think that was a mindset slip, it was part of why I kept my vote firmly there.

Enemies strengthen you. Allies weaken.

[Scotty]

Scotty

I badly want scotty to be town, and there's a decent chance I'm just paranoid. I'm just sticking him in a category of his own because I'm finding it very difficult to find the centre around which to trust him.

Falcon

Falcon has given me plenty of content to actually get a decent read, and I can't get one at all. Others giving me meta takes on Falcon would be helpful.

so you want to trust scotty but you have no reason to?

i find falcon a hard read myself but i lean town on him rn, he's been continuously applying pressure to me and others and i don't see mafia incentive for it because he hasn't been doing it unnecessarily, and mafia would've preferred me getting lynched instead of sabi (but this depends on scotty's alignment, if me and scotty are v/v it's a death sentence for either of us if the other dies)

Nah, if you die and flip civ I think I look pretty good, considering I did a little flipperooni yesterday to save you

[robyn]

Actually, I read back the post, it is all about you. I’m going to work and need a break from reading because I can’t formulate arguments.

It happens with my wife too- her super power is framing arguments in such a way that makes sense and my eyes glaze over. It’s Covid brain fog, even though I’ve had it since like 2007

are u poly/open

[Scotty]

i'd just like to take a moment to say that you're very curvaceous @Scotty

thanks

I had a whole sheet of peppermint bark yesterday

i will bed you

my wife might have an issue with that

[Golden]

I'mma unvote in a minute if nothing changes

Uhh keep in mind a tie is a no elim

So I kind of like here that Seanzie didn’t want the tie, but then the second post. I’m making assumptions based on the final vote, but it would have seemed to be tied here wilgy 5 - Sean 5. Wouldn’t his “unvote” make him be eliminated? I’m all for the “info is better than no info” (it’s why I hate the sleep option) but if you are town wouldn’t it be better (in your opinion) for anyone to be eliminated other than you who you know is town? The suspicious part of me is wondering about Seanzie’s motive for this

What does the suspicious part of you think Seanzie's motive was?

That maybe he’s mafia? I’m not sure what clarification you are looking for here

what is the mafia motive for saying I was going to unvote to avoid a tie? How does it help mafia!Seanzie? Walk me through that.

Saying it and doing it are NOT the same thing. You were trying to avoid getting lynched and it worked, regardless of alignment.

Sure, but I asked fingersplints not you

Fingersplints reply was more like ‘because, umm, I dunno I didn’t think that far’.

[robyn]

Nah, if you die and flip civ I think I look pretty good, considering I did a little flipperooni yesterday to save you

debatable, but i don't think anyone would understand my argument here

[robyn]

i'd just like to take a moment to say that you're very curvaceous @Scotty

thanks

I had a whole sheet of peppermint bark yesterday

i will bed you

my wife might have an issue with that

consider me a utility monster

[robyn]

Lucy certainly thinks he's bad. Something to think about for sure.

so you value my reads? why?

[Golden]

1) doc was obviously on dennis
2) i'm gonna play more tomorrow cause i'm still frustrated we have had v/v wagons for 2 cycles

Why is that so obvious?

Everyone who has said something about me minus Scotty has said civ. Also it would've made Lucy look really bad after we had our fight, which assuming Lucy is civ would make it obvious to her.

I will be very surprised if the kill target was not me.

why lmao, what have you done

Been friends with a large percentage of this group for a long time?

[robyn]

Here's that rainbow list that no one asked for. Players are listed alphabetically in tiers.

Town

S~V~S
Dennis

Light Town

falcon45ca
Kate
Sabiplz
Scotty

Null or No Content

bea
DrWilgy
fingersplints
jack shepherd
lucy
Roxy
Seanzie
Soneji

Mafia Lean

Golden
Matahari



And to include a recap on players I haven't talked about yet that I have now sorted into tiers:

falcon45ca: I also don't really trust Golden, albeit might be for different reasons. His vibes don't strike me as hitting the notes of his scum game.

Scotty: Has been active and prodding, and also mostly harmless. I think of the townleans I have, his is the least strongest, but GTH, I do think he's town, and I have seen enough content from him to slot him here for now.

Matahari: Some of her thoughts that she posted in #529 lack direction. That is fine. But I get the feeling that she is pushing herself to talk about players when she doesn't have anything specific to say about them. Soneji in particular.

I just did an iso of matahari.

I have to say that a mata/falcon/soneji team would check out based on her posts alone. And I think this post from marmot about mata is actually pretty good.

bad post

[Scotty]

I'm still reading through parts of the thread but I want to bring forth a thought on the set-up that could certainly have an effect on wolves mindset in this game. I didn't see wolves win condition listed anywhere but assuming it's to reach vote parity, or even just killing all town, then so long as all three members are alive then they win as soon as there are only five town members left due to being able to vote silence two townies each night. At that point town can only tie elim votes, so has no path to winning.

So more than normal wolves will want to ensure all members make it to endgame, and keeping the Lawyer alive is top priority as even with just one other wolf they lower the number needed for vote parity. Bussing is very unlikely, and hard defenses of packmates very likely.

If anyone brought this up before now, then a cookie for them.

cookie for you. I didn’t think of this and I think this is an excellent point. Town cred for you

[VOTE: splints] aubergine

Is this like giving me town cred if I coulda solved the wolf tildes in anniversary?

I’m not sure why articulating a wolf mindset it necessarily town-leaning. Feels to me like a thing wolf me would do for town cred.

Sorta.

But you didn’t solve it. You were intentionally vague about everything in that game, and in part tried to control information that was out and about, which had me seething in private.

Soneji offers this view unprompted and it actually does help town to know this. I give him brownie points for it and I’ll buy 3 dozen boxes of thin mints

[Scotty]

Actually, I read back the post, it is all about you. I’m going to work and need a break from reading because I can’t formulate arguments.

It happens with my wife too- her super power is framing arguments in such a way that makes sense and my eyes glaze over. It’s Covid brain fog, even though I’ve had it since like 2007

are u poly/open

No, but I do spoon with my dog

[Golden]

Got through almost all posts in game, will be somewhat around rest of day but have a D&D session then will be watching football, so divided focus.

Gone back to read it again:

Kate - holy bad countertrain, wtf guys.
Sabi - Sean, golden, SVS or Lucy contains a wolf. Also, ties are bad.
Scotty = not committing, sure looks like a seanzie save to me. Rejects "SVS is obvtown" arguments.

Dennis - "with marmot dead, I'm not certain how to read the Wilgy wagon"
Seanzie - "not gonna dome sabi, that's derailing the thread, also SVS is obvitown"
SVS - Just explains her thinking

Instinct says Kate might just be caught up in that first bundle, it's not like examination of that group is bad. But it's quite central to why scotty and sabi are forefront of my mind today.

Conversely, the bottom group (people on the wilgy train) don't try to control the narrative at all.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

I find the bolded rather amusing as controlling the narrative has been a large part of your play this game, including this post.

If at least one of scotty and sabi isn’t a wolf I’ll bite my hat twice.

One down, one to go. Don't see a Scotty push so far this day though, curious.

Dude...

Scotty: Seanzie, Who is a good alternative? Sabi? Me?

Me: You apparently already know what my answer would be.

Scotty: Seanzie won't give an alternative.

Think for a second, what did I actually say to your question?

I’ve been down this path with you before. Time is a circle jfc

When I go to the doctor for a pain in my chest, I don’t want the doctor to ask me what I think the problem is.

I offered you the chance yesterday to do some casing and alternative names, and offered a few names that I was assuming you suspected. Your response was very similar to this one.

This is how I get prescribed liver medication for my plaque psoriasis

This is my new favorite post in this game

Townie feeling frustration

Not gonna lie I'm still confused. Do you think Seanzie is doing things that make sense as wolf or not?

Sorry. My sarcasm was coming on strong.

It was a response to Golden not finding a single shred of evidence that Seanzie could be wolf, and I was listing legitimately wolfy things that one could stop and go “yeah, that doesn’t sound towny”

Whether or not I think he is wolf at the present? Im not sure. Leaning not? I think a lot of those could just be Seanzie. I have horrible memory and don’t remember if that is behavior he normally exhibits as town

Yeah it comes off rather disingenuous to act as if there are no valid reasons to suspect Seanzie.

Yeah, I have said if one isbad its Lucy.

Marmot is flipped
I know it’s not me
Seanzie is my top town at this point
SVS is also my top town at this point. They’re fighting for it.
I feel like the Dennis vote is clean.

I’m vibing town on Lucy but there’s some little reasons for doubt.

Also let me add to this that a clean wilgy wagon developing is the wolves wet dream. I'm not sure why any of them would jump on. Having it clean creates such a good opportunity to steer direction, which is exactly why I think it happened.

Reasons are simple : in a wolf Sean world, they obviously want to save their packmate. In a town Sean world, they're hoping to off a potential threat in Wilgy while the opportunity is ripe and they can act like they didn't think it'd go over, and then hope that town wants to flip the counterwagon the next day for the 2 for 1 special.

I will be very surprised if the kill target was not me.

By the way, my point in saying this is not 'the kill target was me'.

It's that self-perceiving that you were at risk and that the doc saved you is normal.

But I don't think the answer is obvious. Could be you, could be me, could be someone else. The doc might have saved themselves for all we know.

It's normal for a townie when they have reason to believe wolves think of them as a threat, which can be just felt as a known power town, but after being on two mislim wagons to start you'd think there would be some self-doubt that doc/wolves are prioritizing you.

Why?

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

Would you not say that if wolfchat was guiding someone coming into d2, going after Seanzie at the time of my post would be advised against considering there were multiple people defending him and momentum wasn't towards a Seanzie elim?

Do find it amusing that anyone thinks I'm being coached in general.

Pingy ping ping pingy ping

What’s pingy about it?

I found myself nodding along with it, like I’ve seemed to do with most of Soneji’s posts this game

It has exactly one purpose:

“Don’t listen to golden, he’s miseliming civs, stuff he says is probably bad”

Most of all, ‘nah, golden, you weren’t the kill target’ well fuckity fuck fuck fuck, why even go there?

Only… come on soneji, tell me who the wolf is on the wilgy wagon?

The whole post wasn’t about you, but I hear you.

I think having a mild level of suspicion on you is healthy in general

I don’t think there was a mild level of suspicion. Just discrediting.

[robyn]

1) doc was obviously on dennis
2) i'm gonna play more tomorrow cause i'm still frustrated we have had v/v wagons for 2 cycles

Why is that so obvious?

Everyone who has said something about me minus Scotty has said civ. Also it would've made Lucy look really bad after we had our fight, which assuming Lucy is civ would make it obvious to her.

I will be very surprised if the kill target was not me.

why lmao, what have you done

Been friends with a large percentage of this group for a long time?

okay, that means it's a chain of friends and you're one link among many with the same qualities as kate/svs, what differentiates you from them in terms of eating the nightkill?

[robyn]

Actually, I read back the post, it is all about you. I’m going to work and need a break from reading because I can’t formulate arguments.

It happens with my wife too- her super power is framing arguments in such a way that makes sense and my eyes glaze over. It’s Covid brain fog, even though I’ve had it since like 2007

are u poly/open

No, but I do spoon with my dog

that's illegal, i'm calling peta

[Golden]

Scotty

I badly want scotty to be town, and there's a decent chance I'm just paranoid. I'm just sticking him in a category of his own because I'm finding it very difficult to find the centre around which to trust him.

Falcon

Falcon has given me plenty of content to actually get a decent read, and I can't get one at all. Others giving me meta takes on Falcon would be helpful.

so you want to trust scotty but you have no reason to?

i find falcon a hard read myself but i lean town on him rn, he's been continuously applying pressure to me and others and i don't see mafia incentive for it because he hasn't been doing it unnecessarily, and mafia would've preferred me getting lynched instead of sabi (but this depends on scotty's alignment, if me and scotty are v/v it's a death sentence for either of us if the other dies)

There are reasons i trust scotty and reasons I don’t and I can’t decide which to listen to.

[robyn]

Not if Lucy had anything to do with it. And I still think she did. Her vote yestetday and wanting to eliminate a low poster.

apparently town is starting to finally lynch a lowposter, what do u make of that? why is it townie now and not yesterday?

[Scotty]

Got through almost all posts in game, will be somewhat around rest of day but have a D&D session then will be watching football, so divided focus.

Gone back to read it again:

Kate - holy bad countertrain, wtf guys.
Sabi - Sean, golden, SVS or Lucy contains a wolf. Also, ties are bad.
Scotty = not committing, sure looks like a seanzie save to me. Rejects "SVS is obvtown" arguments.

Dennis - "with marmot dead, I'm not certain how to read the Wilgy wagon"
Seanzie - "not gonna dome sabi, that's derailing the thread, also SVS is obvitown"
SVS - Just explains her thinking

Instinct says Kate might just be caught up in that first bundle, it's not like examination of that group is bad. But it's quite central to why scotty and sabi are forefront of my mind today.

Conversely, the bottom group (people on the wilgy train) don't try to control the narrative at all.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

I find the bolded rather amusing as controlling the narrative has been a large part of your play this game, including this post.

If at least one of scotty and sabi isn’t a wolf I’ll bite my hat twice.

One down, one to go. Don't see a Scotty push so far this day though, curious.

I’ve been down this path with you before. Time is a circle jfc

When I go to the doctor for a pain in my chest, I don’t want the doctor to ask me what I think the problem is.

I offered you the chance yesterday to do some casing and alternative names, and offered a few names that I was assuming you suspected. Your response was very similar to this one.

This is how I get prescribed liver medication for my plaque psoriasis

This is my new favorite post in this game

Townie feeling frustration

Sorry. My sarcasm was coming on strong.

It was a response to Golden not finding a single shred of evidence that Seanzie could be wolf, and I was listing legitimately wolfy things that one could stop and go “yeah, that doesn’t sound towny”

Whether or not I think he is wolf at the present? Im not sure. Leaning not? I think a lot of those could just be Seanzie. I have horrible memory and don’t remember if that is behavior he normally exhibits as town

Yeah it comes off rather disingenuous to act as if there are no valid reasons to suspect Seanzie.

Also let me add to this that a clean wilgy wagon developing is the wolves wet dream. I'm not sure why any of them would jump on. Having it clean creates such a good opportunity to steer direction, which is exactly why I think it happened.

Reasons are simple : in a wolf Sean world, they obviously want to save their packmate. In a town Sean world, they're hoping to off a potential threat in Wilgy while the opportunity is ripe and they can act like they didn't think it'd go over, and then hope that town wants to flip the counterwagon the next day for the 2 for 1 special.

By the way, my point in saying this is not 'the kill target was me'.

It's that self-perceiving that you were at risk and that the doc saved you is normal.

But I don't think the answer is obvious. Could be you, could be me, could be someone else. The doc might have saved themselves for all we know.

It's normal for a townie when they have reason to believe wolves think of them as a threat, which can be just felt as a known power town, but after being on two mislim wagons to start you'd think there would be some self-doubt that doc/wolves are prioritizing you.

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

Would you not say that if wolfchat was guiding someone coming into d2, going after Seanzie at the time of my post would be advised against considering there were multiple people defending him and momentum wasn't towards a Seanzie elim?

Do find it amusing that anyone thinks I'm being coached in general.

Pingy ping ping pingy ping

What’s pingy about it?

I found myself nodding along with it, like I’ve seemed to do with most of Soneji’s posts this game

It has exactly one purpose:

“Don’t listen to golden, he’s miseliming civs, stuff he says is probably bad”

Most of all, ‘nah, golden, you weren’t the kill target’ well fuckity fuck fuck fuck, why even go there?

Only… come on soneji, tell me who the wolf is on the wilgy wagon?

The whole post wasn’t about you, but I hear you.

I think having a mild level of suspicion on you is healthy in general

I don’t think there was a mild level of suspicion. Just discrediting.

Potato/tomato

A lot of suspicion is formed from light discrediting. Even if a witness is discredited by the prosecution, i as a jury member still can see that witness knows some stuff

[robyn]

[VOTE: Soneji] aubergine

For saying the right things and I find myself nodding along.

I feel like I’ve been wrong a lot this take so far

This is incredibly twisted logic and idk if a civvie would want to second guess themselves so easily.

not everyone has confidence

[Golden]

Got through almost all posts in game, will be somewhat around rest of day but have a D&D session then will be watching football, so divided focus.


The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

I find the bolded rather amusing as controlling the narrative has been a large part of your play this game, including this post.


One down, one to go. Don't see a Scotty push so far this day though, curious.


This is my new favorite post in this game

Townie feeling frustration


Yeah it comes off rather disingenuous to act as if there are no valid reasons to suspect Seanzie.


Reasons are simple : in a wolf Sean world, they obviously want to save their packmate. In a town Sean world, they're hoping to off a potential threat in Wilgy while the opportunity is ripe and they can act like they didn't think it'd go over, and then hope that town wants to flip the counterwagon the next day for the 2 for 1 special.


It's normal for a townie when they have reason to believe wolves think of them as a threat, which can be just felt as a known power town, but after being on two mislim wagons to start you'd think there would be some self-doubt that doc/wolves are prioritizing you.


Would you not say that if wolfchat was guiding someone coming into d2, going after Seanzie at the time of my post would be advised against considering there were multiple people defending him and momentum wasn't towards a Seanzie elim?

Do find it amusing that anyone thinks I'm being coached in general.

Pingy ping ping pingy ping

What’s pingy about it?

I found myself nodding along with it, like I’ve seemed to do with most of Soneji’s posts this game

It has exactly one purpose:

“Don’t listen to golden, he’s miseliming civs, stuff he says is probably bad”

Most of all, ‘nah, golden, you weren’t the kill target’ well fuckity fuck fuck fuck, why even go there?

Only… come on soneji, tell me who the wolf is on the wilgy wagon?

The whole post wasn’t about you, but I hear you.

I think having a mild level of suspicion on you is healthy in general

I don’t think there was a mild level of suspicion. Just discrediting.

Potato/tomato

A lot of suspicion is formed from light discrediting. Even if a witness is discredited by the prosecution, i as a jury member still can see that witness knows some stuff

That’s not how juries work which is why I’m pro jury abolition.

[robyn]

LUCY - sweet lucy - thank you for giving me shit for being inactive. You were the only one. After the anni game when I flipped civ, i feel like my firends are giving me a pass. I agree with you btw - my gameplay has sucked donkey ass. Not knowing me personally, i love that you called me on that. What do you think of other lower participants like mata, roxy and songei?

no read on any, i'll gladly kill them off

► Show Spoiler

are you a masochist by chance?

[Golden]

Here's that rainbow list that no one asked for. Players are listed alphabetically in tiers.

Town

S~V~S
Dennis

Light Town

falcon45ca
Kate
Sabiplz
Scotty

Null or No Content

bea
DrWilgy
fingersplints
jack shepherd
lucy
Roxy
Seanzie
Soneji

Mafia Lean

Golden
Matahari



And to include a recap on players I haven't talked about yet that I have now sorted into tiers:

falcon45ca: I also don't really trust Golden, albeit might be for different reasons. His vibes don't strike me as hitting the notes of his scum game.

Scotty: Has been active and prodding, and also mostly harmless. I think of the townleans I have, his is the least strongest, but GTH, I do think he's town, and I have seen enough content from him to slot him here for now.

Matahari: Some of her thoughts that she posted in #529 lack direction. That is fine. But I get the feeling that she is pushing herself to talk about players when she doesn't have anything specific to say about them. Soneji in particular.

I just did an iso of matahari.

I have to say that a mata/falcon/soneji team would check out based on her posts alone. And I think this post from marmot about mata is actually pretty good.

bad post

Why?

[robyn]

That’s not how juries work which is why I’m pro jury abolition.

single judges being the judge, jury, and not executioner

or do you have a better idea?

[robyn]

Why?

legacy analysis 2 days after the fact is just weird, and pre flipping associations is terrible play, like forming a team in your mind and slaughtering within that is just very poor play and you'll always be wrong

i don't know whether it's scummy, or if you simply don't know this

[Golden]

That’s not how juries work which is why I’m pro jury abolition.

single judges being the judge, jury, and not executioner

or do you have a better idea?

The better idea is the problem lol, but I think a mix of apolitically appointed judges (trained in law) and professional laypeople (trained in procedure and civics)

[robyn]

@lucy and splinsy. I am sorry i missed one. I am so tired

splints/sonej/mata in any order are fine

i'll copy svs's read on roxy for the moment

[robyn]

The better idea is the problem lol, but I think a mix of apolitically appointed judges (trained in law) and professional laypeople (trained in procedure and civics)

no such thing as a lack of bias or political motivation

was this an original thought by you?

[Golden]

Why?

legacy analysis 2 days after the fact is just weird, and pre flipping associations is terrible play, like forming a team in your mind and slaughtering within that is just very poor play and you'll always be wrong

i don't know whether it's scummy, or if you simply don't know this

Lol ok then.

1) who says I’m committed to slaughtering within them? I think splints might be the answer right now

2) “you’ll always be wrong” is a pretty condescending thing to say. What if I solved the wolfteam? You think this hasn’t happened?

Building worlds and finding associative teams is what I do, and it’s helpful for me. But don’t mistake me for a tunneler unless I suspect svs.

[Golden]

The better idea is the problem lol, but I think a mix of apolitically appointed judges (trained in law) and professional laypeople (trained in procedure and civics)

no such thing as a lack of bias or political motivation

was this an original thought by you?

Yeah I can’t be arsed doing research

[robyn]

Crashing your car is scary and I can't stop crying lol

sorry about that, i hope you feel better

[Golden]

I have people to do my research for me now it’s great lol

[Golden]

Also let me just say if mata IS bad that day one post is useful. And if she’s not it’s irrelevant anyway. I’m not going to kill soneji or Falcon for my suspicion of mata, that’s dumb.

[robyn]

Why?

legacy analysis 2 days after the fact is just weird, and pre flipping associations is terrible play, like forming a team in your mind and slaughtering within that is just very poor play and you'll always be wrong

i don't know whether it's scummy, or if you simply don't know this

Lol ok then.

1) who says I’m committed to slaughtering within them? I think splints might be the answer right now

2) “you’ll always be wrong” is a pretty condescending thing to say. What if I solved the wolfteam? You think this hasn’t happened?

Building worlds and finding associative teams is what I do, and it’s helpful for me. But don’t mistake me for a tunneler unless I suspect svs.

ah, guess you aren’t, i nonetheless find pre flipping very silly

i'm sure that you haven't solved the team, pre flipping is always wrong, i'm 100% sure you haven't solved the team. the rest of my arguments were even more condescending so i'll end this here

i've been taught to find associatives only after flips, never before, while i understand it might be helpful have you ever been 100% right?

[robyn]

I have people to do my research for me now it’s great lol

doing actual research by hand almost always changes my opinion on a subject, what job has you not doing your own research lol

[robyn]

i want to post my thoughts so far, while I have a minute. They are definitely not deep thoughts, but how deep can they be on day 1?
New players get a pass, until later in the game. Absent players, as well.
if I don't mention you, its because I have you as town for now.

Falcon45ca- I didn't find it suspicious that you chose someone quickly because with movable votes, it seems like a lot of players throw votes around in a slap-happy fashion. then you were questioned about it, and you promptly posted quotes for why you made your vote. This looked legit to me at the time. Later it occurred to me that maybe you did all that too quickly, Pre-planned? But someone, Sabiplz, I think, said this was normal for your town game.

Soneji posted, I think, but I'll need to go back and look to make sure. ???

Lucy- so far, is reminding me of Dr. Wilgy. Too random to read, and weird posting just annoys me because I don't know what to do with it. I'd like to hear from players who are familiar with them.

Seanzie made a very risky statement for a town player to make. Or just an 'I can't be bothered' statement. Since it was preceded by an 'Ugh', I'm going with the former.

Sabiplz drew attention to his post, then backed away from it, then said she rarely voted early or often, then 17 minutes later she voted for Seanzie. None of this feels right.

Golden got a vote from Falcon, and although Falcon's reasons would not be enough to convince me to vote someone, I thought they were ok for a day 1. However after post 486 ( I think, I'll go back and check later and do an ebwop if necessary), I have Golden as town.

Marmot, no clue. I'd like to hear what other players think of him. ???

Everyone else, I have as probably town. I have no absolutes this early, but I'm watching the players above who pinged me. I'd like to hear what other players think of my not so deep thoughts, please.

this post?

[robyn]

[VOTE: Bea] aubergine

i don't like the mata wagon, ole' reliable vote since d1, that is suspiciously hard to vote out

[Soneji]

Boy does this post go a long way down the path of trying to get people not to listen to what I’m saying… creating some big straw men there.

So my ‘sabi or scotty’ post is both steering the thread but also curiously I’m not pushing for Scotty today. Hmm, very curious.

And there’s a straw man against why wilgys vote train being clean wouldn’t be mafia’s wet dream. Really, you don’t think so? You don’t think they’d love it if day two focussed on a wagon full of civs? Or do you just prefer my idea is discounted?

I'd feel better about your chances of being town if you were pushing Scotty today, or at least gave a good reason to back off.

A clean wagon onto Wilgy would be the ideal for wolves, but when wagons are close at EoD they're likely to have had to get their hands dirty to secure that mislim.

Got through almost all posts in game, will be somewhat around rest of day but have a D&D session then will be watching football, so divided focus.

Gone back to read it again:

Kate - holy bad countertrain, wtf guys.
Sabi - Sean, golden, SVS or Lucy contains a wolf. Also, ties are bad.
Scotty = not committing, sure looks like a seanzie save to me. Rejects "SVS is obvtown" arguments.

Dennis - "with marmot dead, I'm not certain how to read the Wilgy wagon"
Seanzie - "not gonna dome sabi, that's derailing the thread, also SVS is obvitown"
SVS - Just explains her thinking

Instinct says Kate might just be caught up in that first bundle, it's not like examination of that group is bad. But it's quite central to why scotty and sabi are forefront of my mind today.

Conversely, the bottom group (people on the wilgy train) don't try to control the narrative at all.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

I find the bolded rather amusing as controlling the narrative has been a large part of your play this game, including this post.

If at least one of scotty and sabi isn’t a wolf I’ll bite my hat twice.

One down, one to go. Don't see a Scotty push so far this day though, curious.

-He racked up a ton of votes by midday and no one was seemingly budging
-He refused to offer alternatives with any merit or explanation
-He remained aloof and simultaneously snippy at times
-His unvoting means nothing because he was already in the lead looking to croak. But doing so broadcasts “I’m not afraid to die, come at me” which is legitimate gambit that I see mafia do all the time.

But yeah; there’s not a single aspect of his game that makes sense as wolf

Dude...

Scotty: Seanzie, Who is a good alternative? Sabi? Me?

Me: You apparently already know what my answer would be.

Scotty: Seanzie won't give an alternative.

Think for a second, what did I actually say to your question?

I’ve been down this path with you before. Time is a circle jfc

When I go to the doctor for a pain in my chest, I don’t want the doctor to ask me what I think the problem is.

I offered you the chance yesterday to do some casing and alternative names, and offered a few names that I was assuming you suspected. Your response was very similar to this one.

This is how I get prescribed liver medication for my plaque psoriasis

This is my new favorite post in this game

Townie feeling frustration

Not at all

I used sarcastic orange for that statement by the by

Not gonna lie I'm still confused. Do you think Seanzie is doing things that make sense as wolf or not?

Sorry. My sarcasm was coming on strong.

It was a response to Golden not finding a single shred of evidence that Seanzie could be wolf, and I was listing legitimately wolfy things that one could stop and go “yeah, that doesn’t sound towny”

Whether or not I think he is wolf at the present? Im not sure. Leaning not? I think a lot of those could just be Seanzie. I have horrible memory and don’t remember if that is behavior he normally exhibits as town

Yeah it comes off rather disingenuous to act as if there are no valid reasons to suspect Seanzie.

Oh, it's a gut read. Duly noted

Yeah, I have said if one isbad its Lucy.

Marmot is flipped
I know it’s not me
Seanzie is my top town at this point
SVS is also my top town at this point. They’re fighting for it.
I feel like the Dennis vote is clean.

I’m vibing town on Lucy but there’s some little reasons for doubt.

Also let me add to this that a clean wilgy wagon developing is the wolves wet dream. I'm not sure why any of them would jump on. Having it clean creates such a good opportunity to steer direction, which is exactly why I think it happened.

Reasons are simple : in a wolf Sean world, they obviously want to save their packmate. In a town Sean world, they're hoping to off a potential threat in Wilgy while the opportunity is ripe and they can act like they didn't think it'd go over, and then hope that town wants to flip the counterwagon the next day for the 2 for 1 special.

Everyone who has said something about me minus Scotty has said civ. Also it would've made Lucy look really bad after we had our fight, which assuming Lucy is civ would make it obvious to her.

I will be very surprised if the kill target was not me.

By the way, my point in saying this is not 'the kill target was me'.

It's that self-perceiving that you were at risk and that the doc saved you is normal.

But I don't think the answer is obvious. Could be you, could be me, could be someone else. The doc might have saved themselves for all we know.

It's normal for a townie when they have reason to believe wolves think of them as a threat, which can be just felt as a known power town, but after being on two mislim wagons to start you'd think there would be some self-doubt that doc/wolves are prioritizing you.

I could vote soneji independent of my sabi read.

Why?

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

Would you not say that if wolfchat was guiding someone coming into d2, going after Seanzie at the time of my post would be advised against considering there were multiple people defending him and momentum wasn't towards a Seanzie elim?

Do find it amusing that anyone thinks I'm being coached in general.

Pingy ping ping pingy ping

What’s pingy about it?

I found myself nodding along with it, like I’ve seemed to do with most of Soneji’s posts this game

It has exactly one purpose:

“Don’t listen to golden, he’s miseliming civs, stuff he says is probably bad”

Most of all, ‘nah, golden, you weren’t the kill target’ well fuckity fuck fuck fuck, why even go there?

Only… come on soneji, tell me who the wolf is on the wilgy wagon?

Seanzie, Lucy and you all have good chances of being wolves. If Seanzie is a wolf, potentially all three wolves were on Wilgy to save him.

Got through almost all posts in game, will be somewhat around rest of day but have a D&D session then will be watching football, so divided focus.

Gone back to read it again:

Kate - holy bad countertrain, wtf guys.
Sabi - Sean, golden, SVS or Lucy contains a wolf. Also, ties are bad.
Scotty = not committing, sure looks like a seanzie save to me. Rejects "SVS is obvtown" arguments.

Dennis - "with marmot dead, I'm not certain how to read the Wilgy wagon"
Seanzie - "not gonna dome sabi, that's derailing the thread, also SVS is obvitown"
SVS - Just explains her thinking

Instinct says Kate might just be caught up in that first bundle, it's not like examination of that group is bad. But it's quite central to why scotty and sabi are forefront of my mind today.

Conversely, the bottom group (people on the wilgy train) don't try to control the narrative at all.

The first group is rightly calling for accountability from the Wilgy voters, while the second has every reason to not want to rock the boat. Dennis is a newbie, what narrative is he going to try and control? Plus several players rushed to proclaim him townie for his EoD. Seanzie just narrowly escaped the noose, of course they'd avoid a thunder dome. SVS does look good from how they explained their vote, and how they wanted a tie.

I find the bolded rather amusing as controlling the narrative has been a large part of your play this game, including this post.

If at least one of scotty and sabi isn’t a wolf I’ll bite my hat twice.

One down, one to go. Don't see a Scotty push so far this day though, curious.

I’ve been down this path with you before. Time is a circle jfc

When I go to the doctor for a pain in my chest, I don’t want the doctor to ask me what I think the problem is.

I offered you the chance yesterday to do some casing and alternative names, and offered a few names that I was assuming you suspected. Your response was very similar to this one.

This is how I get prescribed liver medication for my plaque psoriasis

This is my new favorite post in this game

Townie feeling frustration

Sorry. My sarcasm was coming on strong.

It was a response to Golden not finding a single shred of evidence that Seanzie could be wolf, and I was listing legitimately wolfy things that one could stop and go “yeah, that doesn’t sound towny”

Whether or not I think he is wolf at the present? Im not sure. Leaning not? I think a lot of those could just be Seanzie. I have horrible memory and don’t remember if that is behavior he normally exhibits as town

Yeah it comes off rather disingenuous to act as if there are no valid reasons to suspect Seanzie.

Also let me add to this that a clean wilgy wagon developing is the wolves wet dream. I'm not sure why any of them would jump on. Having it clean creates such a good opportunity to steer direction, which is exactly why I think it happened.

Reasons are simple : in a wolf Sean world, they obviously want to save their packmate. In a town Sean world, they're hoping to off a potential threat in Wilgy while the opportunity is ripe and they can act like they didn't think it'd go over, and then hope that town wants to flip the counterwagon the next day for the 2 for 1 special.

By the way, my point in saying this is not 'the kill target was me'.

It's that self-perceiving that you were at risk and that the doc saved you is normal.

But I don't think the answer is obvious. Could be you, could be me, could be someone else. The doc might have saved themselves for all we know.

It's normal for a townie when they have reason to believe wolves think of them as a threat, which can be just felt as a known power town, but after being on two mislim wagons to start you'd think there would be some self-doubt that doc/wolves are prioritizing you.

Approach to Seanzie feels like someone who understands day one more through wolfchat than thread to me

Would you not say that if wolfchat was guiding someone coming into d2, going after Seanzie at the time of my post would be advised against considering there were multiple people defending him and momentum wasn't towards a Seanzie elim?

Do find it amusing that anyone thinks I'm being coached in general.

Pingy ping ping pingy ping

What’s pingy about it?

I found myself nodding along with it, like I’ve seemed to do with most of Soneji’s posts this game

It has exactly one purpose:

“Don’t listen to golden, he’s miseliming civs, stuff he says is probably bad”

Most of all, ‘nah, golden, you weren’t the kill target’ well fuckity fuck fuck fuck, why even go there?

Only… come on soneji, tell me who the wolf is on the wilgy wagon?

The whole post wasn’t about you, but I hear you.

I think having a mild level of suspicion on you is healthy in general

I don’t think there was a mild level of suspicion. Just discrediting.

If it's unclear, I do have a mild moving on medium suspicion of you.

[Scotty]

@lucy and splinsy. I am sorry i missed one. I am so tired

splints/sonej/mata in any order are fine

i'll copy svs's read on roxy for the moment

[VOTE: Bea] aubergine

i don't like the mata wagon, ole' reliable vote since d1, that is suspiciously hard to vote out

Where does bea fit into this

[robyn]

Where does bea fit into this

i haven't a preference, and bea didn't include herself into the list, which i categorize her in

[Soneji]

Matahara's response to pressure was...uninspiring, and I still don't feel good about them. Now that they've answered though, I'd rather be voting one of Golden or Seanzie rather than being on a wagon with them.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

[robyn]

@Soneji are you submissive and breedable

[Kate]

Lucy certainly thinks he's bad. Something to think about for sure.

so you value my reads? why?

Because I tend to think y9ure bad so if you're hollering that scotty is bad, there is a very specific reason for it.