The Syndicate

Do you think our host is gone forever? That would be sad, to be trapped for an eternity with an evil baddie on the loose.

If you want, I can just host Twin Peaks Mafia again. Maybe with a Fire Walk With Me theme! C'mon guys, let's do that!

I'm just sittin' here watching the wheels go 'round and 'round.

Sign me up for your mafia-within-a-mafia, Eddie.

What happened? It's not day yet?

And INH, I want to play in the MD game, so I can't help you host

What if there was a mafia game where everyone thought they had roles, but really they didn't?

FZ, the suspense might literally kill me: who did you NK?

thellama73 wrote:Do you think our host is gone forever? That would be sad, to be trapped for an eternity with an evil baddie on the loose.

No, you just have an irresponsible host who's gotten a little Irish.

Turnip Head wrote:What if there was a mafia game where everyone thought they had roles, but really they didn't?

Don't tempt me. This game isn't over yet.

I'm sorry, TH! I should have listened to you about FZ yesterday. Don't worry, though. You will be avenged.
I investigated FZ and got innocent, meaning I am the Naive Cop. Lizzy was the Sane Cop. INH is either paranoid or insane (no surprises there). And I'm voting for FZ.

thellama73 wrote:I'm sorry, TH! I should have listened to you about FZ yesterday. Don't worry, though. You will be avenged.
I investigated FZ and got innocent, meaning I am the Naive Cop. Lizzy was the Sane Cop. INH is either paranoid or insane (no surprises there). And I'm voting for FZ.

On Night 0, I investigated TH, and I got a result of guilty. Obviously, that was incorrect. Last night, I investigated FZ, and got a result of innocent. I see no other solution other than I am the insane cop, and FZ is the baddie. Definitely voting her.

I know this looks bad for me, but llama, you have to trust me on this. I said I was going to investigate you, but I investigate INH, because he was really quiet this game after last game. So I thought if Lizzie was really messing with us, and wanted the baddie to win, the only person she didn't say could be the baddie was INH. She started with voting you. Then said was a genius baddie, and then voted for me. I think she wanted to mess with us, and I don't know who she investigated the first night, but maybe she bluffed.

Anyway, I thought that if she did bluff, that would mean you and me could both be telling the truth about TH, and INH was lying. I thought I'd say I'm going to look into you so he won't be afraid to say what he "found". I really investigated him, and found out he's the baddie, so I think I'm actually the sane cop, and he's just the baddie. I guess Lizzie was a naive or paranoid cop, but we just didn't get anything from her.

I know you don't want to trust me, but I also think that INH killed TH to make me look really bad.
Listen to me. If you vote me, you're losing the game for us with your own two hands. I beg you to reconsider!!!

Lizzy wrote:TH, come join me at the zombie bar! What can I get you?

I'll have one of everything.

FZ. wrote:I know this looks bad for me, but llama, you have to trust me on this. I said I was going to investigate you, but I investigate INH, because he was really quiet this game after last game. So I thought if Lizzie was really messing with us, and wanted the baddie to win, the only person she didn't say could be the baddie was INH. She started with voting you. Then said was a genius baddie, and then voted for me. I think she wanted to mess with us, and I don't know who she investigated the first night, but maybe she bluffed.

Anyway, I thought that if she did bluff, that would mean you and me could both be telling the truth about TH, and INH was lying. I thought I'd say I'm going to look into you so he won't be afraid to say what he "found". I really investigated him, and found out he's the baddie, so I think I'm actually the sane cop, and he's just the baddie. I guess Lizzie was a naive or paranoid cop, but we just didn't get anything from her.

I know you don't want to trust me, but I also think that INH killed TH to make me look really bad.
Listen to me. If you vote me, you're losing the game for us with your own two hands. I beg you to reconsider!!!

Let's think about this. If I assume that you, I and TH all told the truth, then you have to be sane, I have to be naive, TH has to be paranoid or insane, leaving one paranoid or insane cop left and one baddie, split between LIzzy and INH. We know lizzy wasn't the baddie, so she would have been either paranoid or insane, and gotten a guilty result when investigating TH. You're alleging that she got a guilty result and reported innocent for no reason. This would also require INH to report a guilty result when he really had none. He then would have had to lie about getting an innocent result for you, pretending to be the insane cop, which would make sense if what you say is true.

I simply do not believe Lizzy would deliberately throw the game for the civs when she is a civ. She is crazy, but not that crazy.

Your story would also require a level of lucid cunning from INH that doesn't fit in with what I know of him as a somewhat daring and unconventional player.

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:I know this looks bad for me, but llama, you have to trust me on this. I said I was going to investigate you, but I investigate INH, because he was really quiet this game after last game. So I thought if Lizzie was really messing with us, and wanted the baddie to win, the only person she didn't say could be the baddie was INH. She started with voting you. Then said was a genius baddie, and then voted for me. I think she wanted to mess with us, and I don't know who she investigated the first night, but maybe she bluffed.

Anyway, I thought that if she did bluff, that would mean you and me could both be telling the truth about TH, and INH was lying. I thought I'd say I'm going to look into you so he won't be afraid to say what he "found". I really investigated him, and found out he's the baddie, so I think I'm actually the sane cop, and he's just the baddie. I guess Lizzie was a naive or paranoid cop, but we just didn't get anything from her.

I know you don't want to trust me, but I also think that INH killed TH to make me look really bad.
Listen to me. If you vote me, you're losing the game for us with your own two hands. I beg you to reconsider!!!

Let's think about this. If I assume that you, I and TH all told the truth, then you have to be sane, I have to be naive, TH has to be paranoid or insane, leaving one paranoid or insane cop left and one baddie, split between LIzzy and INH. We know lizzy wasn't the baddie, so she would have been either paranoid or insane, and gotten a guilty result when investigating TH. You're alleging that she got a guilty result and reported innocent for no reason. This would also require INH to report a guilty result when he really had none. He then would have had to lie about getting an innocent result for you, pretending to be the insane cop, which would make sense if what you say is true.

I simply do not believe Lizzy would deliberately throw the game for the civs when she is a civ. She is crazy, but not that crazy.

Sadly, I can't stay and discuss this, because I have deadline for a job I took, and I'm so behind on it, and it's someone's thesis, so I can't play with that. But I don't want us to lose so I'll say what I can. All my interpretations are ad-hock, because I'm basing it on what's happened. I don't know INH very well, so I have no idea how conniving he or can be, but if there was ever an opportunity to try that out, this is just the type of game to do it. Don't forget about his Malhulland Drive mafia idea. Seems kind of conniving to me. Last game he was very proactive. I don't see him doing that this game. He's reacting...and in this game, the baddies needs to be reacting, because he has to sit and wait.
I don't know if Lizzie is the kind of player to throw a game, but if she was bluffing, then she probably realized INH was lying, and maybe that's why he's the only one she didn't mention could be a baddie. At this point, she wanted the baddie to win. I have no idea why, but she said so. I think that since MM said that info dumping is encouraged and more so if it's lying, she went with it. With the little I got to know her, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

I've said all I can. If it doesn't convince you I can't do anything about it, but it's the truth. Do with that what you will.
I don't know if I'll be here until the day ends.
It's all up to you llama.

I would be a fool to change my vote in the face of all evidence, just based on your word. But I have to give you credit, you make a very compelling and impassioned argument. Your Latin is wrong though, so if nothing lse, it's worth lynching you for that.

If you end up being right, I will be very sorry, but I have to make the logical decision here.

thellama73 wrote:I would be a fool to change my vote in the face of all evidence, just based on your word. But I have to give you credit, you make a very compelling and impassioned argument. Your Latin is wrong though, so if nothing lse, it's worth lynching you for that.

English is not my native language, so since I don't write Latin, that is a very poor excuse for lynching me, not to mention the fact that your spelling is wrong, and English is your mother tongue.

Joking aside, while I can see why you are seeing things this way, and I'm not sure I would listen to me either, it's the truth! And not only will you be lynching me, but you'll be getting yourself killed and losing us all the game. If you want to joke about that, go ahead.

Mafia isn't always about logic, but I guess I can't fault you. It's really kind of sad, because we were 4 and he's just one, and TH's idea was great. I can't believe we blew it. Sucks.


Okay, I can't stay anymore.

FZ. wrote:Mafia isn't always about logic, but I guess I can't fault you. It's really kind of sad, because we were 4 and he's just one, and TH's idea was great. I can't believe we blew it. Sucks.


Okay, I can't stay anymore.

Just think about how I would feel if I voted against all logic and ended up being wrong. I would never live it down.

There's three problems with your theory FZ.

1: Why wouldn't Lizzy say "Hey, I checked INH and he was bad" when the game began? There was still a pretty decent amount of time and posts before she apparently gave up on the game, if she wanted to help the civvies, why not at least mention my name?

2: I think that Lizzy was joking when she said that she wanted the baddie to win. I've played with her before, and she has never struck me as the type to ruin a whole teams game just because she got lynched.

3: I wish I was that good at playing mafia to pull off a move like that. My "talents" trend more towards the hosting side of things, and when I do participate in some crazy fucking scheme or something, it's usually an off-the-cuff, "Hey, why not?" type play. For example, I pretended to have some magical program that looked at players posting history, ran it through an algorithm, and was able to tell whether or not a player was bad using statistics. I didn't know at the time that one of the other players made computer algorithms that used statistics for his job, and saw through my bullshit immediately. That's maybe the most thought-out game I've played so far.

FZ. wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I would be a fool to change my vote in the face of all evidence, just based on your word. But I have to give you credit, you make a very compelling and impassioned argument. Your Latin is wrong though, so if nothing lse, it's worth lynching you for that.

English is not my native language, so since I don't write Latin, that is a very poor excuse for lynching me, not to mention the fact that your spelling is wrong, and English is your mother tongue.

And since we're being pedantic, my spelling isn't bad, my typing is. There exists a difference. Not having English as your first language gives you even less of an excuse to not know Latin and to misspell ad hoc.

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:Mafia isn't always about logic, but I guess I can't fault you. It's really kind of sad, because we were 4 and he's just one, and TH's idea was great. I can't believe we blew it. Sucks.


Okay, I can't stay anymore.

Just think about how I would feel if I voted against all logic and ended up being wrong. I would never live it down.

I'm so going to pay for this. I don't like losing as a civvie, so if I end up getting lynched and won't finish my work, I'm never going to let you live this down. Just because TH said I was the baddie, doesn't make it more logical. Check my answer to INH for the rest of this logic explanation...

insertnamehere wrote:There's three problems with your theory FZ.

1: Why wouldn't Lizzy say "Hey, I checked INH and he was bad" when the game began? There was still a pretty decent amount of time and posts before she apparently gave up on the game, if she wanted to help the civvies, why not at least mention my name?

2: I think that Lizzy was joking when she said that she wanted the baddie to win. I've played with her before, and she has never struck me as the type to ruin a whole teams game just because she got lynched.

3: I wish I was that good at playing mafia to pull off a move like that. My "talents" trend more towards the hosting side of things, and when I do participate in some crazy fucking scheme or something, it's usually an off-the-cuff, "Hey, why not?" type play. For example, I pretended to have some magical program that looked at players posting history, ran it through an algorithm, and was able to tell whether or not a player was bad using statistics. I didn't know at the time that one of the other players made computer algorithms that used statistics for his job, and saw through my bullshit immediately. That's maybe the most thought-out game I've played so far.

I love how you're saying there are problems with my theory, yet you're not calling me a baddie. It's like you're afraid to push this too hard, or llama will think you're sweating.
1. I think Lizzie decided to make things interesting long before she was voted for. You can even see it in her attitude before she even got one vote. So she didn't say anything like you're suggesting. Plus, I have no idea if she investigated you or not. She could have investigated TH and just lied about the results to mix things up. When I said she might have known you were lying, I was assuming it was based on your "results"

2. I have no idea how she is, because I've barely played with her, but she seems like a funky person (I'm bad at English slang), who would do crazy things, especially in a small game where it's not that serious, and no harm will really be done.

3. When people say "I wish I were that good", it just makes me think they are, but I guess we'll just have to see.

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I would be a fool to change my vote in the face of all evidence, just based on your word. But I have to give you credit, you make a very compelling and impassioned argument. Your Latin is wrong though, so if nothing lse, it's worth lynching you for that.

English is not my native language, so since I don't write Latin, that is a very poor excuse for lynching me, not to mention the fact that your spelling is wrong, and English is your mother tongue.

And since we're being pedantic, my spelling isn't bad, my typing is. There exists a difference. Not having English as your first language gives you even less of an excuse to not know Latin and to misspell ad hoc.

Since we're elaborating on this, I'll just have you know, that I actually wrote ad hoc, yet the stupid spell checker told me I was wrong, and it suggested the "ad hock", so I thought that's how it's written when "said" in English. So will you now change your vote?

FZ. wrote:So will you now change your vote?

No. :P

Bottom line is, your theory requires more assumptions than mine. I don't see a reason to make those assumptions.

Suit yourself I did my best. Loss is on you, not me. I was the only one seeing the truth.

One last try, and then I'm moving to the other game or going to sleep.

llama, are you sure there's nothing that can change your mind? I think INH has been playing an incredible game, and he knew who to kill as well. But you're making a terrible mistake and now would be a good time to wake up and smell the coffee

I guess not....

Okay INH, you have my blessing for killing llama at night

At least I won't be here when you hang me in the city square...
Bad decision

Good night

Early lynch post?

FZ. wrote:Loss is on you, not me.

If there is a los, it's on Lizzy, not me. I made the only logical choice. I stand by my actions, even if it turns out I am wrong.

I thought this farce would be over by now and I could say I told you so. Oh well, I'll just have to wait...

We have a listless, irresponsible host.

thellama73 wrote:We have a listless, irresponsible host.

He's just disappointed at you like I am

thellama73 wrote:We have a listless, irresponsible host.

The day isn't quite over yet sillies. I'm also on Pacific time, so these times aren't all that late for me.

Here are everyone's assigned roles. INH happened to be the insane one.

1) insertnamehere - Insane Cop
2) thellama73 - Naïve Cop
3) Turnip Head - Paranoid Cop
4) FZ. - Baddie
5) Lizzy - Sane Cop

:\ Looks like the baddie was in worse shape than the cops who called me a liar. I liked the fact that I've been used up until the last minute.
FZ, I think I deserve a late 'thanks' for rooting for you.

What? I was the baddie? I was sure I was just insane

Congrats to the civvies

Lizzie, I do thank you though it didn't help.

I was doomed the second TH came up with that plan on night 0. While it was a very clever plan (it was, you can be proud of yourself), for fairness' sake, I don't think it should have been used on the first night. The only option was for two answers from each type. Once there were three innocent, it was evident that the baddie was one of the three who said innocent, so it took two out of the race. And I couldn't have said I checked someone else because that would have made me look even more scummy. So maybe closing the thread for discussion the first night was the right decision. Too bad it happened too late

I still enjoyed the game, and my apologies to everyone I used and manipulated. I actually hate doing that. That's part of what makes me a very bad scum.

Thanks for the game, MM

At least we now know how you behave when naughty.

Cheers for the game, Marshy!

Great game! FZ, I agree with you about the plan being a little unfair since the thread was supposed to be closed, but even so you came vanishingly close to winning. You made such an impassioned plea that you almost convinced me, and there was always a chance people would have thought me the other liar instead of you (which I am grateful they did not.) Without TH's plan, you would have destroyed us for sure. It wouldn't even have been close.

I'm on a role, aren't I? First Willow, and now this! This is my highest streak ever.

FZ, you had me worried for a second there that Llama wouldn't make the obviously right choice. Question, why did you try and get me eliminated instead of Llama?

Lizzy wrote:At least we now know how you behave when naughty.

Cheers for the game, Marshy!

How do I behave?
I would like to know too, because I can't judge objectively.

thellama73 wrote:Great game! FZ, I agree with you about the plan being a little unfair since the thread was supposed to be closed, but even so you came vanishingly close to winning. You made such an impassioned plea that you almost convinced me, and there was always a chance people would have thought me the other liar instead of you (which I am grateful they did not.) Without TH's plan, you would have destroyed us for sure. It wouldn't even have been close.

Thanks I couldn't go with you because INH got innocent on me and he got baddie on TH. TH and INH were the only ones who got "guilty" the first night, and TH was a confirmed civ, so if INH was telling the truth (and he was), I had to be the baddie, because he got baddie for TH and innocent for me. It meant he was the innocent for sure. So I had to make him the liar. If he'd come out and said he got guilty on me, I could still persuade him I was the civvie and you the baddie. But, he didn't and the rest is history...
Good job sticking to your intuition and logic Sorry I made you feel bad.

linki @ yeah, you are. Great job! The answer to your question is in my reply to llama. But maybe I was analyzing this too much and thought you would too. I thought there was no way I could make you think you were wrong.

Fun game! Sorry for accidentally ruining it. :P

You played a good game though FZ. Shoulda kept me alive; if anyone could have been swayed by your impassioned and valiant effort, it was probably me. And I got a "guilty" read on you meaning I was the paranoid cop, so I would have been super paranoid the whole day.

I was pretty sure it was you though

I hope other games like this will be played. It was a fun concept and I could see it playing out differently every time.

Also I didn't expect everyone to actually go through with my plan! But the thread got locked so people didn't have time to argue about the merits of it. I fully expected to get called out as the baddie for trying to manipulate everyone.

Turnip Head wrote:Fun game! Sorry for accidentally ruining it. :P

You played a good game though FZ. Shoulda kept me alive; if anyone could have been swayed by your impassioned and valiant effort, it was probably me. And I got a "guilty" read on you meaning I was the paranoid cop, so I would have been super paranoid the whole day.

I was pretty sure it was you though

I knew it was a chance I had to take. I didn't know which one was the paranoid and which was the insane, so I thought since you came up with the plan, you would be more attentive to the results and options. In truth, the minute Lizzie was gone, there was no other way but for me to be the baddie

TH investigated llama- guilty
Lizzie investigated TH-innocent
llama inv. TH- innocent
INH inv. TH- guilty
I "inv." TH- innocent

1. One of those saying "innocent" was the baddie.
2. If llama was the baddie and was lying, it would mean that TH was either the sane or paranoid cop. If he was the sane or paranoid cop, it would mean there was no way in which both me and lizzie would get an "innocent" and INH a "guilty" reply, because if he was the sane, the naive could get an innocent reply on TH, but neither the paranoid, nor the insane could get that on TH (which would mean there should be only one innocent). If TH was the paranoid, it means the sane and naive could get an "innocent" reply on TH, but then the insane, would get the "innocent" as well.

So basically, after Lizzie's lynch the game should have been over.

I enjoy this kind of game because it's very much logic-based. I've once played one where each role was doubled (10 players and baddies have BTSC, but only one kill I think). That was quite complicated to figure out, so this one is far simpler.

FZ. had the right idea in pursuing the logic. It's too bad you recognized you were kinda screwed though, so you couldn't use that in your argument too well.

Thanks everyone for playing, and my apologies for any mistakes I made, which I know there were a couple.