Mortal Kombat Mafia [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Glorfindel on lapluie, Night 4:

Spoiler: show

I sure did. What is your greatest disagreement?

It frankly astounds me that anyone could read Lapluie’s ISO and deduce from that she is anywhere near Town. You said this of Jack:

Jack is red because he continues to push dubious cases with a tone of exaggerated assertiveness while resisting other dubious cases with the same tone, and I question the legitimacy of any civilian mindset he has attempted to portray.

Precisely the same thing could be said of Lapluie (only I think it applies more so in her case).

Don’t get me going on Simon. There’s massive red-herring potential there. If he was Mafia coming in at the last second, surely he’d have nailed TSP’s coffin shut once and for all. But no, he voted for Lapluie which is an encouraging look in my view.

It would seem logical that any POE needs to focus on the LC and TSP wagons. THAT is where we should start looking.

In any case, this will be left up to you guys to determine. I believe that it would be cruel and inhumane of our Mafia team to keep me alive any longer in this game so I hope my game does end here in the next few hours. No one would listen to me when it counted, I don’t expect that’s like to change.

If by your last question Jay, you mean someone else that I knew for certain to be a Townie, no.

I can understand why you'd be perturbed given your strong civilian read on Long Con. Whatever brings you to that read, consider how others are going to approach Long Con without the same rationale in mind that you have in yours. He hasn't done very much in this game. He's flown under the radar. I think it's fair to suspect him in the absence of special insight. In lapluie's case, I am pretty sure Long Con voted for her in a tally which could have easily destroyed her. He moved to TSP in the end, but for a long stretch he was on lapluie. Play devil's advocate with yourself and assume lapluie is a civilian -- how is she likely to respond when an under-the-radar Long Con is trying to get her lynched close to EOD?

Now, consider your own role in this incident. You were loudly shouting for LC to be saved. You didn't want that lynch. Anyone who knows you well would be well-advised to listen to you on that front. Does lapluie know you? Does your reputation hold any weight with a player who has never played with you before? What about the LC voters who do know you and still ignored you? Would you agree that there is a more obvious problem with that picture?

Very well, Jay - you have my attention.

Glorfindel on lapluie, Day 5:

Spoiler: show

Also, apologies to you Lapluie. Jay has made me see the light.

Its best to lynch mafia players who are still active now, rather than an inactive player imo.

That's a fair argument. I would consider them both to be active at least in that they can send night actions. You'll note that Simon voted late in the last day phase, and for you.

I voted for Lapluie too and I was wrong. I don’t think Simon making a wrong choice particularly in that instance (sorry, Lapluie) wasn’t necessarily understandable.

One thing that is blindingly clear:

If Simon is mafia then lapluie is not.

Lapluie is NOT Mafia.

You can see a clear transition between phases. On Night 4 he started with strong suspicion of lapluie, and even though he was willing to listen to my argument in her favor he didn't 180 it. When the new day phase began though, he was immediate in absolving her and resolute in defending her.

I'm not lynching that.

[Kylemii]

this is what i love about this era of mafia players, all I have to do is make an assertion of something i think is probably true/important and then an hour later someone will have done the legwork to determine whether or not i was right. B)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, in case anyone is concerned about the token resurrection/recruitment combination -- I don't think you need to be. Refer to the "least favorite game mechanics" thread in the lounge:

Another, somewhat related one, is a secret simultaneous resurrection and recruitment to the Mafia, a civilian getting resurrected to the Mafia's team. Such a player almost certainly won't be lynched, and it makes for an easy victory for the Mafia.

I agree by the way. The intrigue and sorcery may be neat, but it is pretty much never balanced.

[Elohcin]

Kyle, I see in your post that you suspect lap as well, but that Glorf thinking she(?) is civ causes you to rethink. So, obviously Glorf was civ since he was night-killed. But why does his opinion causes you pause? Civ's can be wrong. Am I missing something?

in summary, glorfindel's view on lapluie changed overnight. he went from believing lap was definitely mafia and a top priority for lynching to believing they were definitely civ literally overnight. Iirc there wasn't any real in thread reason for him to change his view on lapluie during that time frame so it's possible his view was changed by a night action.

@Elohcin what are your thoughts on marmot?

When I do something like this, no one trusts me. They call me wishy-washy crazy and lynch me as a civ.

I don't have many thoughts on marmot. He isn't memorable except for his self-vote until he moved it. Honestly, I don't even remember who he moved it to. I know people think he is bad. I would have to go and read him to know why. I might be able do that today since I doubt he has many posts.

[Elohcin]

Glorfindel was highly suspicious of lapluie until I talked it over with him. He seemed convinced by my arguments in her favor, though I was still surprised by his level of confidence in her after that point. I'll have to determine whether a night phase ended somewhere during that period to facilitate his having received information.

Please do so. Because if his change of thoughts came just because you convinced him, then I am not convinced.

[lapluie]

[ytubehd][/ytubehd]

Bloopp

hi, what's your reasoning for jack?

[Elohcin]

Glorfindel on lapluie, Night 4:

Spoiler: show

I sure did. What is your greatest disagreement?

It frankly astounds me that anyone could read Lapluie’s ISO and deduce from that she is anywhere near Town. You said this of Jack:

Jack is red because he continues to push dubious cases with a tone of exaggerated assertiveness while resisting other dubious cases with the same tone, and I question the legitimacy of any civilian mindset he has attempted to portray.

Precisely the same thing could be said of Lapluie (only I think it applies more so in her case).

Don’t get me going on Simon. There’s massive red-herring potential there. If he was Mafia coming in at the last second, surely he’d have nailed TSP’s coffin shut once and for all. But no, he voted for Lapluie which is an encouraging look in my view.

It would seem logical that any POE needs to focus on the LC and TSP wagons. THAT is where we should start looking.

In any case, this will be left up to you guys to determine. I believe that it would be cruel and inhumane of our Mafia team to keep me alive any longer in this game so I hope my game does end here in the next few hours. No one would listen to me when it counted, I don’t expect that’s like to change.

If by your last question Jay, you mean someone else that I knew for certain to be a Townie, no.

I can understand why you'd be perturbed given your strong civilian read on Long Con. Whatever brings you to that read, consider how others are going to approach Long Con without the same rationale in mind that you have in yours. He hasn't done very much in this game. He's flown under the radar. I think it's fair to suspect him in the absence of special insight. In lapluie's case, I am pretty sure Long Con voted for her in a tally which could have easily destroyed her. He moved to TSP in the end, but for a long stretch he was on lapluie. Play devil's advocate with yourself and assume lapluie is a civilian -- how is she likely to respond when an under-the-radar Long Con is trying to get her lynched close to EOD?

Now, consider your own role in this incident. You were loudly shouting for LC to be saved. You didn't want that lynch. Anyone who knows you well would be well-advised to listen to you on that front. Does lapluie know you? Does your reputation hold any weight with a player who has never played with you before? What about the LC voters who do know you and still ignored you? Would you agree that there is a more obvious problem with that picture?

Very well, Jay - you have my attention.

Glorfindel on lapluie, Day 5:

Spoiler: show

Also, apologies to you Lapluie. Jay has made me see the light.

Its best to lynch mafia players who are still active now, rather than an inactive player imo.

That's a fair argument. I would consider them both to be active at least in that they can send night actions. You'll note that Simon voted late in the last day phase, and for you.

I voted for Lapluie too and I was wrong. I don’t think Simon making a wrong choice particularly in that instance (sorry, Lapluie) wasn’t necessarily understandable.

One thing that is blindingly clear:

If Simon is mafia then lapluie is not.

Lapluie is NOT Mafia.

You can see a clear transition between phases. On Night 4 he started with strong suspicion of lapluie, and even though he was willing to listen to my argument in her favor he didn't 180 it. When the new day phase began though, he was immediate in absolving her and resolute in defending her.

I'm not lynching that.

perhaps I should not post until I catch up. Even still. I see this change...but it doesn't totally convince me. I mean....what if Glor got wrong info? I have seen things like this happen before. I don't trust any "info" to be 100% true in mafia.

[Marmot]

Marmot,

Why were you resistant to a tie at the very end of the day phase?

I'm always resistant to ties. This game is no different to others.

[Marmot]

Wow, a resurrection! Rare. I like them.

i definitely liked this one.

alright i have three questions regarding the events that took place after my tragic and sad murder,

1. how does everyone currently feel about lapluie? are they cool?

2. @Marmot how are you? what are your thoughts on Jay?

3. @JaggedJimmyJay same question here as number 2 only about Marmot instead.

Jay is not of the Order of Light.

At first I didn't care that he continued to be a significant part of this game. I thought his contributions would help the players in general. But his latest actions have been detrimental to my own cause. He should be destroyed.

[Elohcin]

If Jay is civ, why isn't he dead yet?

[Marmot]

If Jay is civ, why isn't he dead yet?

Does anyone actually think that Jay is civilian?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Marmot,

Why were you resistant to a tie at the very end of the day phase?

I'm always resistant to ties. This game is no different to others.

Then you're mafia. Period.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

perhaps I should not post until I catch up. Even still. I see this change...but it doesn't totally convince me. I mean....what if Glor got wrong info? I have seen things like this happen before. I don't trust any "info" to be 100% true in mafia.

I wouldn't call it 100% either. I might call it 95% though. At what point does this extend beyond sensible skepticism and into the realm of paranoia or fear-mongering?

[Marmot]

Marmot,

Why were you resistant to a tie at the very end of the day phase?

I'm always resistant to ties. This game is no different to others.

Then you're mafia. Period.

Whatever you say.

[Elohcin]

Marmot,

Why were you resistant to a tie at the very end of the day phase?

I'm always resistant to ties. This game is no different to others.

Then you're mafia. Period.

I don't mean to be all "defend marmot!!" because I have no clue what y'all have on him (and if you don't mind telling me what y'all have on him @JaggedJimmyJay, that would be great), but I feeel the same damn way about ties in mafia whether I am bad or good. I hate them. They may me crazy uneasy for some reason.

[Elohcin]

perhaps I should not post until I catch up. Even still. I see this change...but it doesn't totally convince me. I mean....what if Glor got wrong info? I have seen things like this happen before. I don't trust any "info" to be 100% true in mafia.

I wouldn't call it 100% either. I might call it 95% though. At what point does this extend beyond sensible skepticism and into the realm of paranoia or fear-mongering?

like, paranoid that you've been given the wrong info? I wouldn't call it that. I would just call it ignoring the info altogether because you don't know if it's true or not. No reason toe even entertain it, imo.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't mean to be all "defend marmot!!" because I have no clue what y'all have on him (and if you don't mind telling me what y'all have on him JaggedJimmyJay, that would be great), but I feeel the same damn way about ties in mafia whether I am bad or good. I hate them. They may me crazy uneasy for some reason.

I don't object to someone resisting ties in general. So do I. I care about Marmot resisting that tie, and that's all I'm going to say about it. If you'd like a more general case:

Marmot refused to listen to Glorfindel, the guy who never lies, when he was screaming to prevent a Long Con lynch. Marmot just kept asking him "what do you know??" and "why??" as if those are answerable questions, all while leaving his vote planted firmly on LC's face. Fake.

Marmot "tried" to sway the lynch from nutella to Simon (civilian to mafia), but only by begging for vote switches from players who had made it clear all day long that they were voting for nutella and not Simon. Fake.

[lapluie]

Glorfindel on lapluie, Night 4:

Spoiler: show

I sure did. What is your greatest disagreement?

It frankly astounds me that anyone could read Lapluie’s ISO and deduce from that she is anywhere near Town. You said this of Jack:

Jack is red because he continues to push dubious cases with a tone of exaggerated assertiveness while resisting other dubious cases with the same tone, and I question the legitimacy of any civilian mindset he has attempted to portray.

Precisely the same thing could be said of Lapluie (only I think it applies more so in her case).

Don’t get me going on Simon. There’s massive red-herring potential there. If he was Mafia coming in at the last second, surely he’d have nailed TSP’s coffin shut once and for all. But no, he voted for Lapluie which is an encouraging look in my view.

It would seem logical that any POE needs to focus on the LC and TSP wagons. THAT is where we should start looking.

In any case, this will be left up to you guys to determine. I believe that it would be cruel and inhumane of our Mafia team to keep me alive any longer in this game so I hope my game does end here in the next few hours. No one would listen to me when it counted, I don’t expect that’s like to change.

If by your last question Jay, you mean someone else that I knew for certain to be a Townie, no.

I can understand why you'd be perturbed given your strong civilian read on Long Con. Whatever brings you to that read, consider how others are going to approach Long Con without the same rationale in mind that you have in yours. He hasn't done very much in this game. He's flown under the radar. I think it's fair to suspect him in the absence of special insight. In lapluie's case, I am pretty sure Long Con voted for her in a tally which could have easily destroyed her. He moved to TSP in the end, but for a long stretch he was on lapluie. Play devil's advocate with yourself and assume lapluie is a civilian -- how is she likely to respond when an under-the-radar Long Con is trying to get her lynched close to EOD?

Now, consider your own role in this incident. You were loudly shouting for LC to be saved. You didn't want that lynch. Anyone who knows you well would be well-advised to listen to you on that front. Does lapluie know you? Does your reputation hold any weight with a player who has never played with you before? What about the LC voters who do know you and still ignored you? Would you agree that there is a more obvious problem with that picture?

Very well, Jay - you have my attention.

Glorfindel on lapluie, Day 5:

Spoiler: show

Also, apologies to you Lapluie. Jay has made me see the light.

Its best to lynch mafia players who are still active now, rather than an inactive player imo.

That's a fair argument. I would consider them both to be active at least in that they can send night actions. You'll note that Simon voted late in the last day phase, and for you.

I voted for Lapluie too and I was wrong. I don’t think Simon making a wrong choice particularly in that instance (sorry, Lapluie) wasn’t necessarily understandable.

One thing that is blindingly clear:

If Simon is mafia then lapluie is not.

Lapluie is NOT Mafia.

You can see a clear transition between phases. On Night 4 he started with strong suspicion of lapluie, and even though he was willing to listen to my argument in her favor he didn't 180 it. When the new day phase began though, he was immediate in absolving her and resolute in defending her.

I'm not lynching that.

perhaps I should not post until I catch up. Even still. I see this change...but it doesn't totally convince me. I mean....what if Glor got wrong info? I have seen things like this happen before. I don't trust any "info" to be 100% true in mafia.

Well nobody's gonna stop you for voting for me if that was the last result for your decision, but rumor here goes around that glorfindel doesn't lie?

[lapluie]

Marmot,

Why were you resistant to a tie at the very end of the day phase?

I'm always resistant to ties. This game is no different to others.

Then you're mafia. Period.

Whatever you say.

If I vote for you will you defend yourself & change my mind?

[Kylemii]

Jay is not of the Order of Light.

yeah, probably not.

At first I didn't care that he continued to be a significant part of this game. I thought his contributions would help the players in general. But his latest actions have been detrimental to my own cause. He should be destroyed.

interesting.............

[Marmot]

Marmot,

Why were you resistant to a tie at the very end of the day phase?

I'm always resistant to ties. This game is no different to others.

Then you're mafia. Period.

Whatever you say.

If I vote for you will you defend yourself & change my mind?

No. Not that you'll really care what I say anyway.

Strong tinfoil theory, Jay has managed to buddy the mafia somehow.

Jay usually gets what he wants because he's a good mafia player.



After Tony was lynched, Jay came out of that asserting that myself, Simon, and nutella were mafia. He also claimed that you and Long Con, the two counter-lynches, were civilian. I don't buy those claims.

Also this ongoing "Glorfindel doesn't lie" motto has been taken out of context. I said it early in the game, because Glorfindel doesn't lie about his own alignment. That this sort of behavior transfers to every word he says is opportunistic.

I don't really care about defending myself. He should burn, and so should his allies.

[Kylemii]

"latest actions have been detrimental to *my own* cause" only makes sense in the context that you have a unique cause, but "I thought his contributions would help the players in general." implies that you previously thought he was an indie role

the implication you're trying to push here seems to be that you and Jay are both independent, but Jay is a more inconvenient independent, am I very far off the mark?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

After Tony was lynched, Jay came out of that asserting that myself, Simon, and nutella were mafia. He also claimed that you and Long Con, the two counter-lynches, were civilian. I don't buy those claims.

Also this ongoing "Glorfindel doesn't lie" motto has been taken out of context. I said it early in the game, because Glorfindel doesn't lie about his own alignment. That this sort of behavior transfers to every word he says is opportunistic.

I don't really care about defending myself. He should burn, and so should his allies.

Horseshit. Glorfindel's refusal to lie is well-known as a moral choice. That means he doesn't pick and choose where he is honest. You're full of it. Get lynched.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

"latest actions have been detrimental to *my own* cause" only makes sense in the context that you have a unique cause, but "I thought his contributions would help the players in general." implies that you previously thought he was an indie role

the implication you're trying to push here seems to be that you and Jay are both independent, but Jay is a more inconvenient independent, am I very far off the mark?

I guarantee Marmot is not independent.

[Kylemii]

Strong tinfoil theory, Jay has managed to buddy the mafia somehow.

what in the world?

Jay usually gets what he wants because he's a good mafia player.

if jay truly is indie then he doesn't need to be lynched or "destroyed". his death doesn't help us get closer to wincon and he is a possible ally at times. with the way things are going he's more likely to achieve his wincon by helping civs anyways since whittling down the mafia allows for more night kills and deaths overall that might end up snagging his two specified civilian marks.

[Marmot]

Fine with me.

I'm getting really emotionally charged these last few mafia games, and I can only step away and recollect so many times. I'd rather just be removed than continue to defend myself day-after-day.

Lynch me please.

[Marmot]

Strong tinfoil theory, Jay has managed to buddy the mafia somehow.

what in the world?

Jay usually gets what he wants because he's a good mafia player.

if jay truly is indie then he doesn't need to be lynched or "destroyed". his death doesn't help us get closer to wincon and he is a possible ally at times. with the way things are going he's more likely to achieve his wincon by helping civs anyways since whittling down the mafia allows for more night kills and deaths overall that might end up snagging his two specified civilian marks.

There's likely four mafia left. It'd be quicker to mislynch a couple non-mafia then it would be to lynch four actual mafia.

Additonally, if Jay's accurate in his mafia guesses, he's more likely to be nightkilled.


Do I think Jay needs to be lynched? No, I think that's counter-productive too. But the man wants my head, so of course I want him destroyed.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Fine with me.

I'm getting really emotionally charged these last few mafia games, and I can only step away and recollect so many times. I'd rather just be removed than continue to defend myself day-after-day.

Lynch me please.

How did you feel about the potential of a nutella lynch before it occurred?

[Kylemii]

I guarantee Marmot is not independent.

probably not,

i mostly just want clarification on the narrative he's writing

[Elohcin]

I don't mean to be all "defend marmot!!" because I have no clue what y'all have on him (and if you don't mind telling me what y'all have on him JaggedJimmyJay, that would be great), but I feeel the same damn way about ties in mafia whether I am bad or good. I hate them. They may me crazy uneasy for some reason.

I don't object to someone resisting ties in general. So do I. I care about Marmot resisting that tie, and that's all I'm going to say about it. If you'd like a more general case:

Marmot refused to listen to Glorfindel, the guy who never lies, when he was screaming to prevent a Long Con lynch. Marmot just kept asking him "what do you know??" and "why??" as if those are answerable questions, all while leaving his vote planted firmly on LC's face. Fake.

Marmot "tried" to sway the lynch from nutella to Simon (civilian to mafia), but only by begging for vote switches from players who had made it clear all day long that they were voting for nutella and not Simon. Fake.

The first part of this general case just screams marmot to me. Everyone plays mafia differently and I think this is meta for marmot and it gives me no alarms.

The second part of the case is just confusing to me. He wanted people to vote for Simon (mafia) and not nutella (civ). I don't get how that is pingy.

Glorfindel on lapluie, Night 4:

Spoiler: show

I sure did. What is your greatest disagreement?

It frankly astounds me that anyone could read Lapluie’s ISO and deduce from that she is anywhere near Town. You said this of Jack:

Jack is red because he continues to push dubious cases with a tone of exaggerated assertiveness while resisting other dubious cases with the same tone, and I question the legitimacy of any civilian mindset he has attempted to portray.

Precisely the same thing could be said of Lapluie (only I think it applies more so in her case).

Don’t get me going on Simon. There’s massive red-herring potential there. If he was Mafia coming in at the last second, surely he’d have nailed TSP’s coffin shut once and for all. But no, he voted for Lapluie which is an encouraging look in my view.

It would seem logical that any POE needs to focus on the LC and TSP wagons. THAT is where we should start looking.

In any case, this will be left up to you guys to determine. I believe that it would be cruel and inhumane of our Mafia team to keep me alive any longer in this game so I hope my game does end here in the next few hours. No one would listen to me when it counted, I don’t expect that’s like to change.

If by your last question Jay, you mean someone else that I knew for certain to be a Townie, no.

I can understand why you'd be perturbed given your strong civilian read on Long Con. Whatever brings you to that read, consider how others are going to approach Long Con without the same rationale in mind that you have in yours. He hasn't done very much in this game. He's flown under the radar. I think it's fair to suspect him in the absence of special insight. In lapluie's case, I am pretty sure Long Con voted for her in a tally which could have easily destroyed her. He moved to TSP in the end, but for a long stretch he was on lapluie. Play devil's advocate with yourself and assume lapluie is a civilian -- how is she likely to respond when an under-the-radar Long Con is trying to get her lynched close to EOD?

Now, consider your own role in this incident. You were loudly shouting for LC to be saved. You didn't want that lynch. Anyone who knows you well would be well-advised to listen to you on that front. Does lapluie know you? Does your reputation hold any weight with a player who has never played with you before? What about the LC voters who do know you and still ignored you? Would you agree that there is a more obvious problem with that picture?

Very well, Jay - you have my attention.

Glorfindel on lapluie, Day 5:

Spoiler: show

Also, apologies to you Lapluie. Jay has made me see the light.

Its best to lynch mafia players who are still active now, rather than an inactive player imo.

That's a fair argument. I would consider them both to be active at least in that they can send night actions. You'll note that Simon voted late in the last day phase, and for you.

I voted for Lapluie too and I was wrong. I don’t think Simon making a wrong choice particularly in that instance (sorry, Lapluie) wasn’t necessarily understandable.

One thing that is blindingly clear:

If Simon is mafia then lapluie is not.

Lapluie is NOT Mafia.

You can see a clear transition between phases. On Night 4 he started with strong suspicion of lapluie, and even though he was willing to listen to my argument in her favor he didn't 180 it. When the new day phase began though, he was immediate in absolving her and resolute in defending her.

I'm not lynching that.

perhaps I should not post until I catch up. Even still. I see this change...but it doesn't totally convince me. I mean....what if Glor got wrong info? I have seen things like this happen before. I don't trust any "info" to be 100% true in mafia.

Well nobody's gonna stop you for voting for me if that was the last result for your decision, but rumor here goes around that glorfindel doesn't lie?

maybe that is what he wants you to think? :P

seriously though....I am not saying glorf lied. I am saying I don't think we can fully trust his info even if he got it from the host himself.

[Marmot]

Fine with me.

I'm getting really emotionally charged these last few mafia games, and I can only step away and recollect so many times. I'd rather just be removed than continue to defend myself day-after-day.

Lynch me please.

How did you feel about the potential of a nutella lynch before it occurred?

I didn't think she should be lynched.

I didn't expect her to be lynched.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The first part of this general case just screams marmot to me. Everyone plays mafia differently and I think this is meta for marmot and it gives me no alarms.

The second part of the case is just confusing to me. He wanted people to vote for Simon (mafia) and not nutella (civ). I don't get how that is pingy.

I don't see how "ignore the pleas of the man who never lies" is either a strategy or a play style. It's a refusal to heed the words of someone you claim to trust when it matters most. That's yuck.

I don't really buy that he "wanted" people to vote for Simon. He was making that request of players who had said all day phase long that they were voting for nutella and not Simon. It was pointless.

[Kylemii]

There's likely four mafia left. It'd be quicker to mislynch a couple non-mafia then it would be to lynch four actual mafia.

I guess that's technically true, 2 civ lynches and 2 nightkilled has the same degree of success in catching his two marks as four straight mafia lynches. Jay can really do whatever he wants.

Additonally, if Jay's accurate in his mafia guesses, he's more likely to be nightkilled.

mmmmm maybe. but the mafia probably won't kill Jay, because the mafia knows that Jay is a potential late game swing vote. why kill a variable when you can kill a constant?

[Marmot]

The first part of this general case just screams marmot to me. Everyone plays mafia differently and I think this is meta for marmot and it gives me no alarms.

The second part of the case is just confusing to me. He wanted people to vote for Simon (mafia) and not nutella (civ). I don't get how that is pingy.

I don't see how "ignore the pleas of the man who never lies" is either a strategy or a play style. It's a refusal to heed the words of someone you claim to trust when it matters most. That's yuck.

I don't really buy that he "wanted" people to vote for Simon. He was making that request of players who had said all day phase long that they were voting for nutella and not Simon. It was pointless.

I wasn't paying attention most of the day. I entered the thread near the end of the day, saw the tally, and made a move.

I was not targeting any specific players with my requests. I asked everyone on the nutella wagon to move.

[Marmot]

mmmmm maybe. but the mafia probably won't kill Jay, because the mafia knows that Jay is a potential late game swing vote. why kill a variable when you can kill a constant?

What would you do if you were mafia in this scenario?

[Elohcin]

The first part of this general case just screams marmot to me. Everyone plays mafia differently and I think this is meta for marmot and it gives me no alarms.

The second part of the case is just confusing to me. He wanted people to vote for Simon (mafia) and not nutella (civ). I don't get how that is pingy.

I don't see how "ignore the pleas of the man who never lies" is either a strategy or a play style. It's a refusal to heed the words of someone you claim to trust when it matters most. That's yuck.

I don't really buy that he "wanted" people to vote for Simon. He was making that request of players who had said all day phase long that they were voting for nutella and not Simon. It was pointless.

I think we have to agree to disagree, sorry. I definitely see a marmot playstyle in your case-part 1. And in part 2, it seems like a civ marmot who is really sees a civ nutella and wants people to vote for Simon instead. It's like your process of elimination crap. He saw that he trusted nutella more and so he wanted people to vote Simon. EVERYONE who did not vote for Simon, voted for Nutella. Who was he going to ask other than those who had decided they were voting nutella? Deadies cannot vote, non-players cannot vote.

Honestly...I 100% am scared out of my mind right now because I hate defending people so hard in games because I know it can come back to bite me in the ass. But I have to call bullshit on your claims against marmot. I think they are stupid and feel like it's my responsibility to tell you so.

[Elohcin]

If marmot is bad....it is NOT for the reasons you are saying. That is all.

[Marmot]

The first part of this general case just screams marmot to me. Everyone plays mafia differently and I think this is meta for marmot and it gives me no alarms.

The second part of the case is just confusing to me. He wanted people to vote for Simon (mafia) and not nutella (civ). I don't get how that is pingy.

I don't see how "ignore the pleas of the man who never lies" is either a strategy or a play style. It's a refusal to heed the words of someone you claim to trust when it matters most. That's yuck.

I don't really buy that he "wanted" people to vote for Simon. He was making that request of players who had said all day phase long that they were voting for nutella and not Simon. It was pointless.

I think we have to agree to disagree, sorry. I definitely see a marmot playstyle in your case-part 1. And in part 2, it seems like a civ marmot who is really sees a civ nutella and wants people to vote for Simon instead. It's like your process of elimination crap. He saw that he trusted nutella more and so he wanted people to vote Simon. EVERYONE who did not vote for Simon, voted for Nutella. Who was he going to ask other than those who had decided they were voting nutella? Deadies cannot vote, non-players cannot vote.

Honestly...I 100% am scared out of my mind right now because I hate defending people so hard in games because I know it can come back to bite me in the ass. But I have to call bullshit on your claims against marmot. I think they are stupid and feel like it's my responsibility to tell you so.

I mean... I had no reason not to vote Simon.



People I would not lynch right now: Jack

People I would lynch right now: laplue, Long Con, JaggedJimmJay, Made

[Marmot]

Actually, I would not lynch Jay right now. He's off the dang lynch poll.

[lapluie]

Fine with me.

I'm getting really emotionally charged these last few mafia games, and I can only step away and recollect so many times. I'd rather just be removed than continue to defend myself day-after-day.

Lynch me please.

hey don't say that =[
pls help us figure out who the other bad guys are other than jay? Who do you think ?
What're your thoughts on made?

[Elohcin]

so I just looked at the lynch poll. I had no clue Dom was playing and I don't even know a Dave. Have they even posted?

[Marmot]

Who's Dave? :3

[JaggedJimmyJay]

EVERYONE who did not vote for Simon, voted for Nutella. Who was he going to ask other than those who had decided they were voting nutella? Deadies cannot vote, non-players cannot vote.

Honestly...I 100% am scared out of my mind right now because I hate defending people so hard in games because I know it can come back to bite me in the ass. But I have to call bullshit on your claims against marmot. I think they are stupid and feel like it's my responsibility to tell you so.

He didn't ask "everyone" who didn't vote for Simon. He asked the specific few people who indicated that they would not vote for Simon.

Go read it and then tell me my claims are bullshit.

[lapluie]

so I just looked at the lynch poll. I had no clue Dom was playing and I don't even know a Dave. Have they even posted?

I think Dave has only 1 or 2 posts, but dom has been MIA from start of game

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It makes zero sense for Marmot to believe Glorfindel has a moral aversion to lying about his alignment, but no moral aversion to lying about someone else's alignment. That's nonsense. To defend him after he tried to say that is nonsense. Lynch the man.

[Elohcin]

EVERYONE who did not vote for Simon, voted for Nutella. Who was he going to ask other than those who had decided they were voting nutella? Deadies cannot vote, non-players cannot vote.

Honestly...I 100% am scared out of my mind right now because I hate defending people so hard in games because I know it can come back to bite me in the ass. But I have to call bullshit on your claims against marmot. I think they are stupid and feel like it's my responsibility to tell you so.

He didn't ask "everyone" who didn't vote for Simon. He asked the specific few people who indicated that they would not vote for Simon.

Go read it and then tell me my claims are bullshit.

Were those the specific people who were actually in the thread when he was asking? Did you think of that? Maybe that's why he was asking those people.

linki: Jay "It makes zero sense for Marmot to believe Glorfindel has a moral aversion to lying about his alignment, but no moral aversion to lying about someone else's alignment." This is the ONLY think I agree with you about. But this was NOT in your two-part case against Marmot.

[Elohcin]

so I just looked at the lynch poll. I had no clue Dom was playing and I don't even know a Dave. Have they even posted?

I think Dave has only 1 or 2 posts, but dom has been MIA from start of game

we cannot rule them out as mafia....just sayin'

[Elohcin]

@marmot....those you were asking to vote Simon instead nutella....were those the people in the thread at the time? If not...why were you asking those people specifically?

[Elohcin]

I told you I would be back when the number of players decreased. Are you sure you still want me?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Glorfindel, kindly move your vote to Simon, please.

Let's see how interested Glorfindel was in voting for Simon:

Spoiler: show

Don’t get me going on Simon. There’s massive red-herring potential there. If he was Mafia coming in at the last second, surely he’d have nailed TSP’s coffin shut once and for all. But no, he voted for Lapluie which is an encouraging look in my view.

I’d have to go back and check. I can certainly see Nutella as being Mafia. And if read what you said earlier correctly, I agree - the whole Simon thing seems like a bad deal to me and I am skeptical of anyone pushing that agenda right now.

You guys don't actually think Simon's is bad, youre voting him off because he's inactive, there's no real evidence that he's mafia, the real evidence is in nutella.
Tony was very adamant in nutella being bad.
But I feel like I'm talking to myself now & nobody's listening so ...rip....

What if there's very similar evidence against Simon as there is against nutella?

There is no case against simon, I for one am certain simon isn't bad, there's no reason to even lynch him. He's inactive!!!!

=/

I don’t share your level of certainty, my friend but I’d wager that your assessment of the situation is correct. At this point of the game with our numbers (theoretically, at least) approaching balance, I’m especially wary of ‘easy options’ like Simon.

lapluie Made ! Get on over to Simon.

How about lapluie? Was she into it?

Spoiler: show

Hang on a second..why are we voting simon again?

If we are voting Simon tonight, we will mislynched & kill another townie, (possibly). So genuine reads from those two are better than a confused & unsure read on simon.

You guys don't actually think Simon's is bad, youre voting him off because he's inactive, there's no real evidence that he's mafia, the real evidence is in nutella.
Tony was very adamant in nutella being bad.
But I feel like I'm talking to myself now & nobody's listening so ...rip....

Lol ofcourse Elohcin votes simon, omy to save her mafia partner. I always knew it & dunya did say to keep an eye on her

I was all for lynching simon a few days ago tbh, there's no reason for me not to at the time? For now I'm afraid if we lynch simon it'll be a mishap that happend to dunya & she flipped civilian, I don't wanna take those chances.

It's very clear how nutella is bad idk how you're not seeing it, youre voting simon bcos hes inactive, you don't actually have reasons to vote him Elohcin you're just following the train.

You also purposely killed dunya when the votes were tied with other 2 lynches & asked who to vote- you chose dunya ofc for no reaaon other than voting for the most votes tallied. Im onto you.

Okay. How about Made?

Spoiler: show

wow y'all a tie? for realzies?
gonna re read simon, cuz i don't remember anything from him at all, but my thought process right now is bad things from one player with good things vs no good things from another player and absents isn't a black and white policy lynch but depends on context of the absents and how bad the bad things are.

voting nutella now

lmao that was a short read. i could go either way. i'd wager that simon is unfamilar with the "baddies post more emojis' train of thought, and i'm typically against it, but like that's a thing that exist for a reason, i mean probably.

the fact that simon hasn't come in to defend himself, today, yesterday, last night etc etc etc makes a bit nervous tho. I'd be very sure that should he be bad his teammates would bus the shit out of him cuz easy civ cred. I feel like a civvie simon would be less likely to play defense than a mafia simon.

And I'm supposed to believe that Marmot really expected these people to change their votes? It's bullshit. He was being transparently fake. Kill him.