The Syndicate

RNG chose you to die.

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:05 pm Wasn't it you NAA who said Mafia should just stick together and vote with their numbers?
And 3 mafia did that day 1 and 2 got scum read hard for it.

Yes, I said that. I think every play is situationally dependent.

I mean, they were scum-read for it, but it's something they would be likely to do as town, so ... People have scum reads that have no bearing on alignment sometimes and they can be right for the wrong reasons. I'm not sure what the % mafia flips are on a M->T CFD... So I can't really comment on that (Mac suggested it's high, but I'm not sure).

Looking at the results of this game isn't indicative of a trend.

it's definitely wolf indic for nanook and not wolf indic for tsp but we weren't expecting running into a watch on dizzy which sorta throws the entire thing off

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:31 pm I could vote sabie sig or maybe nanook

tsp is mafia god

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:10 pm it's definitely wolf indic for nanook and not wolf indic for tsp but we weren't expecting running into a watch on dizzy which sorta throws the entire thing off

Yeah, that's the other thing that's hard to overlook... Sabie was outed D2, but often the D1 counter wagon to a CFD doesn't get killed D2.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:03 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:00 pm That was surprisingly anticlimatic. 3 out of 4 Mafia died to night kill choices.
Only Nanook was actually scum read and caught.

In fairness, it was also because they were heavily scum-read in a role madness game, no bueno.

Watches don't count

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:14 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:03 pm

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:00 pm That was surprisingly anticlimatic. 3 out of 4 Mafia died to night kill choices.
Only Nanook was actually scum read and caught.

In fairness, it was also because they were heavily scum-read in a role madness game, no bueno.

Watches don't count

Oh right... Watcher is the other way, lol. Yeah, I think we can just summarise this game by saying Role Madness = Swingy.

possible mech change: for the more town friendly roles, red powers only work on odd nights, blue on even nights for town

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:10 pm it's definitely wolf indic for nanook and not wolf indic for tsp but we weren't expecting running into a watch on dizzy which sorta throws the entire thing off

Eh, I bus partners in that situation too sometimes

And I do tend to sheep axe

But yes definitely well within my range to save a partner

sig wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:00 pm GG all and thanks for the game DDL.

We had very bad luck and I'll forever advocate killing @Marmot d1 from here on out

And not to start a fight, buuuuuut Gullio whole caught me on the second post thing was and will always be nonsense that was standard Sig messing around posting and if I wasn't mafia would be a standard mischop reasoning.

Nah, that was wolfy

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:02 pm Guillo played really well this game, possibly the best town performance IMO.

Marmot best PR.

Well… thanks. I wish you didnt do that cfd or maybe we would have had a perfect sweep but it worked out and caught Nanook off of it.

ggs

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:16 pm possible mech change: for the more town friendly roles, red powers only work on odd nights, blue on even nights for town

The's one possible fix yeah.

Another one is giving canteens to mafia like candy, or extra roleblocks, sort of what the idea of that Balance Patch was. More tools for mafia to spam and punish town for massclaiming.

Basically, it goes like this: in full role madness, mafia roles HAVE to be more powerful than town roles. I've known that for years, hence mafia getting their bonuses that you can see in the setup.

But in practice, those bonuses proved to be situational and not strong enough to offset the difference, particularly in late-game. I didn't also predict the size of the snowball effect this game would have. So I apologize for the imperfect balancing of this game. I've made some better setups before. But well, role madness is experimentation, and sometimes things go boom in hilarious ways.

Either way, it seems the majority of players enjoyed this a lot, so I'm happy. I also have to say the result is mainly because town played VERY well. I didn't read every post, but what I read contained some superb team work, player reading, and mech discussion. I make setups like this hoping to see them used by players like these. Thank you very much for playing my game and engaging with it, folks. And also kudos for the mafia for trying hard, because no one can say you guys did not, all four of you. It just wasn't meant to be.

Mphahahahahaha Mhahahahahahahahaha

Also fun fact: if this were an actual TF2 match, it would be a massive victory of the Red Team. Only 3 deaths in their side, while the Blue Team got 7 deaths.

Yayyyy the first time I've put 0 effort into the game and town got the win for me! I figured everyone was going to sort everything out.

Good work to the rest of you. GGs to everyone.

Also though I blocked Mac N3, I ended up sending in Guillo on accident. Sorry about that, didn't matter anyways.

Honestly it was kind of hard to properly balance that game.
It wasn't really just that it was role madness either, but more the fact every role was quite powerful and the Mafia didn't really have substantial buffs and some could be considered detrimental.
Even though it never came up because no one really wanted to test it, the Engineer could have easily be solved as Town or Mafia with a single roleblock. Engineer probably could have gotten a different buff entirely such as stronger buildings rather than them not being destroyed.
I also think with there being 8 roleblocking roles in Engineer, Demo, Sniper, and Medic mafia could have possibly just always had their faction kill roleblock immune or something since the kill being roleblocked is actually quite likely. Frankly if the crit canteens were available from the start of the game and instead of being limited just allowing them to chose one of the effects for the night could have gone a long way helping the Mafia play around all the roleblock, healing, and redirecting.
The last thing I'd possibly consider would have been adding more restrictions to all the roles for Town at least. Notably if in general a player couldn't chose the same action twice in a row or if each action has an actual downside to them. The Medic's Solem Vow was a good balance choice I feel, but I think more could have been done for some other classes. I think only really Scout and Soldier had legitimate negitives to spamming their abilities and Soldier was pretty easy to mitigate honestly.
I mean at the end of the day it's hard to say exactly how best to improve a role madness game, but that's just my thoughts. Maybe you could also have limited the number of abilities each role had from 3 to 2. Pretty much everyone just did the most effective ability always. Demoman never used anything but the roleblock, Pyro's never used the vote manipulation, Engineer never built Teleporters, I don't think Spies ever would have used the Sapper (not to mention no one wanted to enter the bases). Really just a lot of stuff went unused because they weren't super useful. I think Demoman was most egregious since the unconditional roleblock was just so powerful.

overall I don't think it was that bad though and was enjoyable trying to think about how everything interacts.

I had the unfortunate circumstance of my car blowing up on me. I feel bad that I wasn't able to put forth my best effort, but if I hadn't self pres voted and made it through the tie then the kill still would have been watched so I guess it was unavoidable. Oh well it's okay it happens. Good game all!

Guillotine wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:14 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:07 pm

Gavial wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:50 am

Dolby wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:43 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:34 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 8:49 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:53 pm

Mphh

How is this player allowed to just post this and get by in beyond comprehension.

Mh mphm mhfn. Mhph mph mh mf mph.

Wilgy, maybe you can make a reads list, with less mphhs being more towny, and more mphhs being more scummy

if you can't list a player, then do separate lines, with the 1st line being teh first player on the player list, second line being second, and so on (skipping dead people, or you could include them)

I conquer @DrWilgy

Mn, Mn, Mn, Mfna, Mn, Mn, Mn, Mn, Mn, Mn, Mn, Mfna, Mn m mnmneh, Mfna, mn Mfna.

So you think Gavial, Nanook, Sig and Tony are scum.

Mph Mhamp

MhMh mhphremdy.

Mph mh mhr mhophn MhMhMhl!!

glad to know it was TSP

I was getting sus of the very moment he called my logic bad

Maybe that would've ended up being CFTWR, but I've seen TSP last to end-game as wolf and win. Its just something he has done in the past.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:05 pm actually I will, we messed up using the crit on day 1 because I misread what the crit did and we had sabie carrying the kill and I was scared that sabie would be blocked, turns out crit doesn't even stop that whoops

I thought crit dodged role-blocks as well because from some of the places I've come from any sort of role-block is considered either a protection or "defense" as the setup puts it:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:34 am making it ignore all protections and defenses

Not to mention it words it as "all", which could've either meant multiple protections or all forms of protection.

I didn't mention it during the game though in the hopes that it was actually that case but mafia mis-read it as not doing that

Mafia chat: https://discord.gg/xSbJVGvv3G

Spec chat: https://discord.gg/tP4uTVpeFq

Gg \o/

Thanks for the game, DDL!

My thought process this whole game: I have no idea who's mafia since I'm barely reading the thread, so I'll just watch the people I want alive. :wowee:

told y'all

told y'all they tried to kill me n2 as well lmao

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:26 pm glad to know it was TSP

I was getting sus of the very moment he called my logic bad

Maybe that would've ended up being CFTWR, but I've seen TSP last to end-game as wolf and win. Its just something he has done in the past.

that was just bad logic tbh but I was getting very upset in the moment that mafia did not get hand selected roles

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:11 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:31 pm I could vote sabie sig or maybe nanook

tsp is mafia god

*proceeds to vote on counterwagon to sabie*

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:14 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:07 pm Laying down slank cover for day zero also someone please read the setup and say some false things about it so I can contribute

[VOTE: tsp] aubergine

ah the old vote a mafia in my first post of the game old chestnut

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:54 pm My thought process this whole game: I have no idea who's mafia since I'm barely reading the thread, so I'll just watch the people I want alive. :wowee:

This was also my approach.

My approach to the game was to just barely pay attention and call out what i thought was bullshit... turns out TSP bullshits a lot lol

and i wouldn't have gotten away with it too if it weren't for light role madness

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:23 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:11 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:31 pm I could vote sabie sig or maybe nanook

tsp is mafia god

*proceeds to vote on counterwagon to sabie*

tsp is mafia god

LinearPoint wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:00 pm That was surprisingly anticlimatic. 3 out of 4 Mafia died to night kill choices.
Only Nanook was actually scum read and caught.

Nanook was roleblocked by Dolby but he wasn’t the attacking mafia but could have been.
Because Dolby roleblocked Nanook it caused him to be highly likely to be executed.

Unless Nanook was the mafia that went to attack Mac?
But I don’t think so.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:11 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:31 pm I could vote sabie sig or maybe nanook

tsp is mafia god

Lol I had so much on you and more I was gonna post if I didn’t die yet I didn’t even notice you posted that.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:53 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:53 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:49 pm Guess 1 - Guillo was a townsiding bisnitch all game and bussed all his team
Guess 2 - TSP is just mafia (caveat seems to be nobody else thinks this for probably some good reason I'm unaware of)
Guess 3 - It's LC

Did MacDougall just acknowledged that i've had great reads in this game?

if town absolutely best I've seen you play

good job guillo

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:49 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:53 pm

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:53 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:49 pm Guess 1 - Guillo was a townsiding bisnitch all game and bussed all his team
Guess 2 - TSP is just mafia (caveat seems to be nobody else thinks this for probably some good reason I'm unaware of)
Guess 3 - It's LC

Did MacDougall just acknowledged that i've had great reads in this game?

if town absolutely best I've seen you play

good job guillo

Thank you mate

GG all,thanks for the host DDL!

GG everyone.

Do we get winner banners?

When does the next Job go into sign ups? - Seems inefficient to not have one up yet.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:51 pm When does the next Job go into sign ups? - Seems inefficient to not have one up yet.

I think we are having an issue of lack of hosts lately, particularly for Jobs. They were okay with me leaving my game over a month in sign ups because there was no one else wanting to use the slot.

So if any of you wants to host a big game, now is a great time because the queue is short.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 2:10 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:51 pm When does the next Job go into sign ups? - Seems inefficient to not have one up yet.

I think we are having an issue of lack of hosts lately, particularly for Jobs. They were okay with me leaving my game over a month in sign ups because there was no one else wanting to use the slot.

So if any of you wants to host a big game, now is a great time because the queue is short.

I'm confused as to how the queue works, I'm ready to host any of my games lol.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:51 pm When does the next Job go into sign ups? - Seems inefficient to not have one up yet.

We're holding off until after the Game of Champions starts. Any Job that goes into signups now likely won't get any attention due to the GoC's presence, and it being a roughly similar format, so we'll hold off until then.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:34 am GG everyone.

Do we get winner banners?

Here they are!

Courtesy of @Syn

Noice!