The Syndicate

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:02 pm I'm just saying, a healthy dose of suspicion directed at anyone is a good thing.

Tunneling is not.

No one knows each other's roles or alignments, heck even our "cop" role is a shot in the dark. So unless you have BTSC, anything can trigger a bad feeling if you're town.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:59 pm Can anyone tell me why I have a bad read on Sloonei? I want to see what you think.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:08 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:59 pm Can anyone tell me why I have a bad read on Sloonei? I want to see what you think.

I don't know why you had a bad read on sloonei. But I think the thread has pretty much confirmed him town now. I cannot remember the exact reason why, though. Too much to remember.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:53 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:46 pm On the Bob thing.

I don't feel anything bad about Bob. But so far I've just read Sloonei's posts and thought "he had a point". I agree with Sloonei's points, but not hard enough to think Bob is definite scum. I'm suspecting Bob by proxy. But I don't want to ISO Bob myself because I'll probably just confirmation bias my way into voting him.

But while I was showering now, I had a thought. It's weird that Sloonei is tunneling so hard on Bob and yet nobody else is caring too much. There have been some skirmishes with Bob here and there, but hardly anybody voicing a strong suspicion on him. Maybe Jack, but Jack suspected everyone. Sloonei made a mega post about Bob on Day 2 and only I voted with him. He did it again on Day 4 and we went for Malakim.

And this is where I put my tinfoil hat and think "if Bob is a civ, baddies would have seized this chance by now". I mean, look at the malakim lynch. Resistance to it was pitiful. Scum probably either voted for malakim or made sure not to oppose it too hard.

So guys, let's put this on the table. Sloonei believes Bob is bad, and seems to believe harder than anyone believes in anything in this game. How are the rest of you reading Bob? Do you see yourselves lynching Bob tomorrow? Opinions, please.

I've been tossing the same thought around, but surely we can't say that the general lack of attention he's received outside of me is indicative of all other players being scum. At most there can be only two others. But you put a spin on it that gives me an added confidence: I'm a big loud doofus and I won't shut up about Bob. If I'm wrong about him, it would be very easy for a scum player to apply a little pressure as well and hope that the dominos might fall. That has not happened. I feel like I've been screaming into a vacuum.

I've been waiting (practically begging) for somebody to make this post all game. Thank you.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:25 pm Tunneling has its uses.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:38 pm That observation by DDL might just be the strongest evidence against colonialbob in this entire thread, honestly. I'm psyched about it.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:52 pm Actually either way DDL's observation is fairly weak in the face of the Mal wagon. Given how early the lynch was more or less a foregone conclusion (and I think most players knew they wouldn't be around for EOD and were happy piling on Mal early), even if Mal had been bad it would have been far too easy to bus him and I just don't think I could imagine a version of yesterday involving a serious push against the Mal lynch. I honestly think DDL's observation is fairly NAI for Bob considering how the last couple lynches have actually gone down. I think in other situations I would readily agree with Sloonei that it's pretty strong evidence, but in the context of this game specifically I don't think it holds much water.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:59 pm Can anyone tell me why I have a bad read on Sloonei? I want to see what you think.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:59 pm Can anyone tell me why I have a bad read on Sloonei? I want to see what you think.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:08 pm

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:04 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:01 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:53 pm I've tried to see what Sloonei is seeing in colonialbob, but I'm not seeing it or feeling it.

I think he's a very strong intuitive player. In Pirates, he was a force not to be reckoned with and that was as a replacement.

If I'm wrong, Sloonei, then I'm wrong and owe you an apology. I've been wrong in this game before *jack ahem*, but I feel if you lay off bob for a day and look for the other two, you can see if you still feel the same way about Bob later.

I already laid off Bob while we looked wt Jay. I'm leaving the door wide open for him or anyone else to convince me I'm wrong. I am tunneling on him, but I want to be shown that I'm wrong if that's the case. I can't see it.
also: colonial bong

All I'm asking is that you spend the night world-building those scenarios. Assuming I'm mafia, who are my teammates and who looks town. Assuming I'm town, who looks worse and who looks better. You can't lynch me until tomorrow anyway, might as well spend some of that time doing something productive instead of just repeating how bad I am.

I don't like doing interactive reads for living players except in rare cases where I'm 99-100% certain they're bad.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:00 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:47 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:41 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:37 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:28 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:25 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:57 pm Well shit. That result is disappointing. And specifically the Chimborazo flip kills a few of my theories on what happened on day 2... but I think there are still more sloonei-civ explanations that make more sense than sloonei-bad ones.

I feel like you are treating this additional information, which could be a crucial piece to solving the game and/or nailing down Sloonei's alignment, as a negative. Sure, lynching a Civ is not good, but this knowledge might help us win.

eeegeeggggghhhhh

And do you consider this to be possibly alignment indicative?

For whom?

nutella

Well, since you brought it up, it moves the needle two hairs from 'Town' to 'Scum' for nutella, based on the idea that a reaction that doesn't seem quite right to me evokes feelings of possible fakery.

You brought it up bruh. And I didn't like how you did it.

Framing suspicion in a way that town can pick up on, but that doesn't state it directly. I don't like that.
And then nutella's post was obviously lamenting that we got a town flip rather than scum. In most games, a town flip is worst scenario. This game is different, with lynched failing almost half the time, but it's NOT GOOD, even as you said.
And then the way you presented the obversavion, making sure to place yourself as a part of 'us' and reemphasize the bright side and the town win condition.

These weak bits come together to make me feel like you're trying too hard to be the nonchalant townie and fly under the radar while casting shade on nutella.

So, no, I don't like your post. If you had said "no, not alignment indicative" I would have assumed that it was just a post for the sake of posting. But the way you framed your suspicion is sleazy and suspicious.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:26 pmLC this is bullshit and you know it, lol. Of course I'm disappointed that we lynched a townie. But you're right, the flip is interesting information, which is exactly what I was puzzling out in that post.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:26 pmLC this is bullshit, but you're right...

alternatenutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:57 pm Well shit. That result is disappointing. On the flip side, the Chimborazo flip kills a few of my theories on what happened on day 2... but I think there are still more sloonei-civ explanations that make more sense than sloonei-bad ones.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:13 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:51 pm
don't open that can of worms. She's 100% confirmed Townie. :P

no she ain't

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:51 pm I didn't bring up suspicion of nutella. My post wasn't about suspecting nutella.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:10 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:52 pm Actually either way DDL's observation is fairly weak in the face of the Mal wagon. Given how early the lynch was more or less a foregone conclusion (and I think most players knew they wouldn't be around for EOD and were happy piling on Mal early), even if Mal had been bad it would have been far too easy to bus him and I just don't think I could imagine a version of yesterday involving a serious push against the Mal lynch. I honestly think DDL's observation is fairly NAI for Bob considering how the last couple lynches have actually gone down. I think in other situations I would readily agree with Sloonei that it's pretty strong evidence, but in the context of this game specifically I don't think it holds much water.

I started pushing bob on Night 3

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:04 am

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:26 pmLC this is bullshit and you know it, lol. Of course I'm disappointed that we lynched a townie. But you're right, the flip is interesting information, which is exactly what I was puzzling out in that post.

Ok, first off, here's what I see:

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:26 pmLC this is bullshit, but you're right...

But let's dissect the whole thing to make sure I'm understanding.

1. What is bullshit, if I'm right? Are you talking about speedchuck's idea that I'm suspecting you for something? In that case, I agree 100% - that's bullshit, and I do indeed know it.

2. Where did I imply that lynching a townie is ok? Of course you're disappointed we lynched a townie. I know that. What I didn't understand was your negativity toward the Chim-whatever flip killing certain theories. That's a good thing.

To put it another way: Your post would have made more sense to me if it had looked like this:

alternatenutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:57 pm Well shit. That result is disappointing. On the flip side, the Chimborazo flip kills a few of my theories on what happened on day 2... but I think there are still more sloonei-civ explanations that make more sense than sloonei-bad ones.

Very slight difference, but it highlights your feelings on the info in a totally different way.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:29 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:51 pm I didn't bring up suspicion of nutella. My post wasn't about suspecting nutella.

This is exactly my point. If not that, then what was it about??

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:38 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:10 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:52 pm Actually either way DDL's observation is fairly weak in the face of the Mal wagon. Given how early the lynch was more or less a foregone conclusion (and I think most players knew they wouldn't be around for EOD and were happy piling on Mal early), even if Mal had been bad it would have been far too easy to bus him and I just don't think I could imagine a version of yesterday involving a serious push against the Mal lynch. I honestly think DDL's observation is fairly NAI for Bob considering how the last couple lynches have actually gone down. I think in other situations I would readily agree with Sloonei that it's pretty strong evidence, but in the context of this game specifically I don't think it holds much water.

I started pushing bob on Night 3

So? Notice how I said "how the last couple lynches have gone" -- Day 4 also went down in such a way that I'm not surprised there wasn't more of a push against bob.

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:04 am

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:26 pmLC this is bullshit and you know it, lol. Of course I'm disappointed that we lynched a townie. But you're right, the flip is interesting information, which is exactly what I was puzzling out in that post.

Ok, first off, here's what I see:

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:26 pmLC this is bullshit, but you're right...

But let's dissect the whole thing to make sure I'm understanding.

1. What is bullshit, if I'm right? Are you talking about speedchuck's idea that I'm suspecting you for something? In that case, I agree 100% - that's bullshit, and I do indeed know it.

2. Where did I imply that lynching a townie is ok? Of course you're disappointed we lynched a townie. I know that. What I didn't understand was your negativity toward the Chim-whatever flip killing certain theories. That's a good thing.

To put it another way: Your post would have made more sense to me if it had looked like this:

alternatenutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:57 pm Well shit. That result is disappointing. On the flip side, the Chimborazo flip kills a few of my theories on what happened on day 2... but I think there are still more sloonei-civ explanations that make more sense than sloonei-bad ones.

Very slight difference, but it highlights your feelings on the info in a totally different way.

This is such a waste of time. If you believe I'm town why are you putting time and effort into this incredibly anal argument rather than hunting scum? I'll answer just because your points don't make any sense and I stand for nothing if not truth and clarity.

1. The bullshit was your claim that I was being overly negative. I expressed a negative reaction to the result, which we seem to agree is warranted. I then expressed that the result affected some thoughts I had on roles/mechanics/previous game events. Maybe part of the disappointment carried over just in that I had thought I had Day 2/some roles figured out and was disappointed that I was wrong. But since I stated my conclusion that I still think Sloonei is most likely town, it didn't end up making that huge a difference either way.

2. Where did I imply that you implied that lynching a townie is ok? Wtf? I do not even understand what is prompting your question. Nowhere did I imply that you implied that. And again, you are greatly exaggerating my "negativity" in the rest of my comment. Your rephrase does nothing for me and I stand by the way I phrased it as making more sense in my mind. Like I said, it's reasonable that I would have been somewhat disappointed to find out that I was wrong, not to mention somewhat disappointed at the loss of the specific town role that we had lynched in addition to the fact that we lynched a townie. And I will admit that the rest of my post is the result of a thought process that I didn't write out -- for a few minutes I was thinking that the Chimborazo flip made Sloonei much more likely to be bad, but another look through the roles reminded me of other town possibilities for him and Jack (fwiw I had thought Jack was Chimborazo, not Sloonei, but it connects don't worry too much about it).


Anyway I'm done with this conversation and with your empty nitpicky nonsense. It's distracting from actually solving the game. What do you think about bob?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:45 pm I have a couple of issues with some of the things Long Con said on the last page.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:25 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:57 pm Well shit. That result is disappointing. And specifically the Chimborazo flip kills a few of my theories on what happened on day 2... but I think there are still more sloonei-civ explanations that make more sense than sloonei-bad ones.

I feel like you are treating this additional information, which could be a crucial piece to solving the game and/or nailing down Sloonei's alignment, as a negative. Sure, lynching a Civ is not good, but this knowledge might help us win.

This is not the sense that I got from nutella's post. That in itself is not a reason for suspicion. But it's not exactly encouraging that this whole conversation is staring off on what could be read as a soft attempt to scrutinize nutella for a point which (I think) does not really exist. I took her negative response to be purely toward Mal's town flip, and the remarks about needing to reconsider Day 2 activities was an afterthought. LC seems to have conflated the two together. I'm only highlighting this here because it's the foundation of the conversation that would ensue, and by my judgment nutella is clearly the subject.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:27 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:46 pm On the Bob thing.

I don't feel anything bad about Bob. But so far I've just read Sloonei's posts and thought "he had a point". I agree with Sloonei's points, but not hard enough to think Bob is definite scum. I'm suspecting Bob by proxy. But I don't want to ISO Bob myself because I'll probably just confirmation bias my way into voting him.

But while I was showering now, I had a thought. It's weird that Sloonei is tunneling so hard on Bob and yet nobody else is caring too much....

For the record, I always considered myself as potentially following a bob lynch, based on a leap of faith in Sloonei's ability... but I never felt my skirt blown up by the case against him.

This is a separate thought, but again one that alarmed me a little. He qualifies himself a bit too carefully here. "For the record, I always considered myself as potentially...". That's three different expressions of hesitation. A confident townie could just as easily have said "I could also follow Sloonei on a bob lynch", but LC here took a whole lot of extra time getting that leap of faith out.
Also not a big fan of the way he sets up the hypothetical Bob vote in such a way that the responsibility is placed significantly on my shoulders rather than his own.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:47 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:41 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:37 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:28 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:25 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:57 pm Well shit. That result is disappointing. And specifically the Chimborazo flip kills a few of my theories on what happened on day 2... but I think there are still more sloonei-civ explanations that make more sense than sloonei-bad ones.

I feel like you are treating this additional information, which could be a crucial piece to solving the game and/or nailing down Sloonei's alignment, as a negative. Sure, lynching a Civ is not good, but this knowledge might help us win.

eeegeeggggghhhhh

And do you consider this to be possibly alignment indicative?

For whom?

nutella

Well, since you brought it up, it moves the needle two hairs from 'Town' to 'Scum' for nutella, based on the idea that a reaction that doesn't seem quite right to me evokes feelings of possible fakery.

The highlighted section reflects the same attitude I just talked about above. Unless I'm misreading this whole exchange, Speedchuck did not bring this topic up, or else what was Long Con's initial post even supposed to mean? These posts just feel like we're pulling teeth to get reads out of Long Con. That's not something I associate with town behavior.

So yeah. There's that.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:55 am How about you stop dwelling on how useless your content has been and answer my question about bob?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:56 am I suppose it warrants questioning why you put up so many bullshit accusations against me early on, LC. Buddying Mesk over a legitimate view and colonialbob over lyrics and intimidating Sloonei. Why?

What did you expect to gain from that bullshit?

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:02 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:56 am I suppose it warrants questioning why you put up so many bullshit accusations against me early on, LC. Buddying Mesk over a legitimate view and colonialbob over lyrics and intimidating Sloonei. Why?

What did you expect to gain from that bullshit?

Helped me get a read on you early. I have never committedly believed you were bad, but it was a possibility. And I do love to help my Civ friends out by casting suspicion their way. I don't really know what you're going to do without my help from here on in.

diarmyhowley wrote:guys can we resolve this dispute in a mannerly fashion

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:29 am LOL go for it, and be wrong. It'll be fun. Just promise to win it after I'm gone.

K2 wrote:Dear Mountains,

Alright, so we made a bad call. It happens sometimes. Let's take it slower this time and talk more before coming to decision. It's times like these where it's best to rethink what we've already taken for granted.

cBob, DDL, LC. Those are my top suspects.

cBob is probably the best option of those but I would appreciate if some townie mountains would look into LC and DDL today as well.

LC in particular has been laying back in a way that makes me uncomfortable. He doesn't have that hungry for justice civvie drive that I associate with a civvie LC. He's giving opinions on things but he's not personally taking ownership for anything, and that scares me. I would appreciate if others would keep him in consideration.

This may be wrong but I sensed some level of insincerity from DDL regarding his feelings about the Malikim lynch. After the flip, DDL posted that he had been worried that Malakim might flip civ because of his 'fuck you' outburst. DDL's earlier posts support this but it's strange that he wasn't more vocal about his concern, and it seems scummy that he felt the need to mention it.

Small mountains can hide under avalanches, so don't let this be another landslide vote. Discussion is our strongest weapon, let's use it.

Also, if K2 sees another player speculating in the thread about K2's identity, that player will be publicly shamed in the next K2 post, so cut that out.

Love,
K2

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:44 am Is it.... possible the mafia is actually just missing the deadline a lot?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:49 am I mean.... it's possible one of the role secrets is a protect or a roleblock but.... 2/5 is a really bad murder success record.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:59 am Anyone got any good reasons to choose either sig or inh over the other?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:09 amI still feel like voting for bob or maybe Long Con if we prefer to go after an active player. There does have to be at least one active scum remaining, after all.