The Syndicate

I'd like to know Mac's excuses for missing the last two votes. Not accusing him of anything but it stands out to me on my spreadsheet, as boisterous as he's been when he's around.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:56 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:31 pm I'd like to know Mac's excuses for missing the last two votes. Not accusing him of anything but it stands out to me on my spreadsheet, as boisterous as he's been when he's around.

Spoiler: show

Hey G, did you comment on my question last night? Regarding your suspicion on me, do you think letting non-play persist is acceptable? Do you know who'd I'd vote if I was more sure of the low posters?

It's one thing to grumble about once the game reaches a certain point but it's another thing to park on that subject all game long. I can't recall the last time someone was so singularly focused on it like you've been.

I just hope this game is over by next Friday. I'll be heading to the beach that night.

If you have to be asked to share that kind of background information, then you are shady and toying with us.

It's too late for your story to help you any because you already played the "you never asked" defense.

I remember when the srsbsnss smiley was named after bigsimpsin..

If you really wanted to share that perspective, you'd have shared it long before now.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:24 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:51 pm If you really wanted to share that perspective, you'd have shared it long before now.

Not when I think its of little importance. Now it's of importance due to either 1. You misurderstanding that persperctive, or 2. You are tying to be opportunistic around that perspective.

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= I'm intoxicated AMA. =
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I'm not looking for a power play here. I'm just having a little fun poking and prodding you before the night post drops.

I do find the whole thing odd but you flatter me with the insinuation that I'm crafty enough to try to turn everyone against you over this.

It's been a very bad game for me. I'm lost without my full vote analysis shtick and the participation has been dreadful. Real life has been frantic as well between catching up on things and prepping for vacation.

Linki: shoot. RIP Mac.

It's 6v2v1. We're running out of time and margin for error.

I'm not rushing into anything today.

I want everyone to start thinking ahead of the current day. Let's focus on combinations. If DFaraday is lynched and flips mafia, which player makes the most sense to you as the last baddie? If DFaraday flips indy or civvie, what two players make the most sense as the last two baddies?

Reasons to support your thoughts are preferable.

I don't have a read on Neverwhere yet but I see plenty of little things that could point to Wilgy being a baddie. Can anyone other than Wilgy point to anything that is substantial enough to clear Wilgy from suspicion?

It feels like you are the defacto choice for today's lynch. I understand with the reasons why people think you need to go but I don't agree with planting their votes down right out of the gate without using the day for discussion. Their minds are made up it seems.

I've got a question for DDL, since he's knowledgeable in Pokemon. You theorized that the types might somehow determine tiebreakers in lynches. Check your fancy Poke-Chart and tell me if this jives.

On Day 1, three people tied for first place. They were Jack, Tony, and Timmer. Tony was lynched and flipped Gible. Jack flipped Charmander and Timmer flipped Bulbasaur.

If you put Gible, Charmander, and Bulbasaur together in Thunderdome, does Gible lose?


Also, on Day 2, Timmer and Boo were tied. Timmer was Bulbasaur. The following base Pokemon are still alive (though some have probably evolved by now): Pidgey, Snover, Torchic, Igglybuff, Riolu, Mew, Inkay, Gastly, Mewtwo. Assuming Boo was still his base Pokemon at the time, which of those base Pokemon could have beaten Bulbasaur?


Apply the same scenario to Day 3 when we got Sprityo. Sprityo was Meowth. He tied with Tink and lost. Which of the base Pokemon left could have beaten Meowth?

I'm heading out to dinner shortly, but I want to bring these lists back up. From the lynched and the NK's, the middle list isn't being cleaned out. There are just two names left on the list Sprityo called dumb and the people he failed to mention at all. Does that change your perception of how Sprityo classified his teammates?

G-Man's Suss List, Which Was Called Dumb By Sprityo:

Fredwood
Neverwhere
Nutella
Sprityo
Tink

Sprityo's Preferred Lynch List:

Boo
Quin/Dom
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Eloh
G-Man

People Sprityo Omitted From His List:

DFaraday
Dragon D. Luffy
Long Con
MacDougall

I'm comfortable enough voting for Wilgy now. His vote will tie things up, so it's going to come down to Dyslexicon, Quin, and Tink. I'll be back before the deadline for some conversation if anyone is around and willing. My vote isn't a final one but it is a comfortable one.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:29 pm G-Man generally had three options on Day 4.

A) Vote for Fredwood
B) Vote for Elohcin
C) Vote (and assumedly promote) another candidate

His posts would make A or B counterproductive options, so I would have expected him to go with C. But he never mentioned any other name that might be getting his vote that day. He named his opposition to both Fredwood and Eloh lynches, gave reasoning behind it and proposed an exercise he didn't participate in himself.

Ironically, I did the very thing on Day 4 that I criticized Fredwood of doing on Day 2. I was just more annoying vocal about agonizing over my decision. I don't fault you for voting for me, Quin. I don't deny that my behavior has been different this game.

If I'm bad, Quin, who is my remaining partner? If I am bad, what is my logic behind turning on Sprityo when my team is still in a position of near absolute strength?

I like most of your thought process there, Quin.

It's wrong, but I still like it.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:27 pm I voted for G-Man, he's my hardest scum read. I do feel kinda burnt that I'm going to be lynched before Dizzy, I feel like I've put too much effort into the game for that.

The fact that our discussion ended on a "haha I'm having a shit game" claim G-Man and your non inquisitive "this person can be bad, but I'll limit my questioning" really makes me think you aren't hunting, rather your sitting back as an observer.

I never mean to walk away from the game when I do. Mafia is my mistress and sometimes you have to ditch the mistress suddenly to avoid being caught. Weekends are perilous like that.

I'll refresh my spreadsheet in the morning. BIH Faraday.

We just bought ourselves extra time and margin for error. Good night all.

It's currently 6v1v1. Tomorrow it will likely be 5v1v1.

I'm going to look at any lists made by DFaraday and see if we can cross-reference them with Sprityo to find their teammate.

ISO'ing DFaraday reveals a revolving list of suspicions. One thing that stands out is a pretty consistent civ read on Boo. I need to pull out all his lists and put them in one post for us to pick apart.

I am not interested in lynching Boo either. DFaraday was probably laying the foundation for an 'I told you so' in case we came back around on Boo after the Day 2 vote. Faraday voted for Boo on Day 2, which makes his later civ reads strange but not necessarily teamwork indicative. No reason whatsoever to make a cred grab that early when the civvies are flailing.

I'm feeling much better about Wilgy after Faraday's flip as well. Faraday voted for Wilgy three days in a row, two of which saw Wilgy in jeopardy or close to it. Again, at that stage in the game, it's not to the baddies' advantage to try to bus a teammate. Having two baddies alive mid and late-game is the way to go.

Also, while Wilgy did a little of the "fine, lynch me!" pout thing Day 7, he came back after kicking the sandcastle down. He didn't just fume off and not come back. That means he's not willing to give up.

I also come back to what I said about Jack's death being an unforced error by the baddies. Perhaps Sprityo has played enough with Jack to be nervous of his civ game. If Faraday was as spotty in BTSC as he was in the game, then that helps me believe that Sprityo didn't have consistent discourse with his teammates.

If Wilgy were a baddie, I can see him talking Sprityo out of killing Jack. Wilgy has gone up against Jimmy and Epi enough times to know that you don't have to kill the super-civs right out of the gate. Sprityo either didn't have anyone around to bounce his Jack kill off of or he was able to convince a teammate who wasn't as engaged or concerned about such things.

That leaves me with Boo, Tink, and Wilgy in the Cautiously Trust column moving forward. That leaves DDL, Dyslexicon, Neverwhere, and Quin to sort out in my head.

I think we're actually doing what we're supposed to do- discussing things and narrowing down our suspicions. It sure beats voting at the start of the day and going AWOL until after the lynch post.

Besides, we all know the baddies are going to try to kill an active player. You already had a target on your back for having posted more than Tink and voting more than Dyslexicon.

If you have to lynch me on Day 8 in order to find the last baddie on Day 9, then that's the cost of victory.

I'm posting the latest update to these lists:


G-Man's Suss List, Which Was Called Dumb By Sprityo:

Fredwood
Neverwhere
Nutella
Sprityo
Tink

Sprityo's Preferred Lynch List:

Boo
Quin/Dom
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Eloh
G-Man

People Sprityo Omitted From His List:

DFaraday
Dragon D. Luffy
Long Con
MacDougall

DDL is the last player remaining that Sprityo omitted from his lists. If DDL is the final baddie, that was an astoundingly reckless move on Sprityo's part.

Interesting that the last baddie took out Tink. Maybe they think we can talk each other in circles. Or maybe they felt Tink was a legitimate threat in case she popped in and voted like she has.

Do you think this kill was meant to make us think the baddie is one of the less active or more active players? Or could it just be an easy, efficient kill?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:05 pm Skimming through G-Man's ISO.

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:36 pmsprityo: Fluffy McFlufferson. You upped your game recently but I still don't trust you. I might like to watch you die.

This was G's call out on Sprit being fluffy.

G-Man wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:16 pm I'm voting Sprityo. Top suss, best bet. Good discussion today, Fred.

I remembered why I had G-Man on my civ list for so long. I agreed with what he had said the day we lynched Sprit. Now as I reread, I see that there was pressure from both DDL and Fred and I believe Tink still had the lead at this time. I can see incentive to bus Sprit when there was only a chance for him to be lynched.

Spoiler for convenience:

Spoiler: show

G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:45 pm I've gathered the following in chronological order. Some are Sprityo's words and some are my thoughts.

sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:22 pm So I don't get the purpose of putting 6 names down. From what I can read in the OP it's just one person you vote for. But my list is as follows:

Speedchuck - because we're CPI buddies
Dom - because I'm afraid of Dom. Always.
Jack - because I "like" jack as a person
DrWigly - because he's a doctor
LC - because I like LC as a person
Mac - because I haven't seen Mac in forever it feels like

He was an early-adopter of the "Boo is twisting words" crew and voted for Boo. Early cred grab or a lazy attempt at a mis-lynch? Not long after, he says Nutella looks better (possibly if we go the Boo v. Nutella route?).

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:26 pm In my gut i want to say i trust DDL a lot even though looking at his ISO didnt give me a whole lot to go off of outside of his dislike for timmer and a scuffle with jack.

I saw some things about LC and speed being tossed around too. LC mostly, like nutella was against boo on his whole concept, which is correct. but i think why i keep seeing the names together is how he discusses with speedchuck a sort of vote alliance thing for tonight. and.... thats really it? not much else i can go on, he's essentially same level as nutella in terms of what he's doing. only nutella has been more argumentative about it and LC was taking pot shots here and there.

Speedchuck, starts out with some nice pro-towny things. he at least talks about it and not too much (which in retrospect makes him look better than how jack was arguing it) but thats because theres not much. and then he just kinda misses out and asks for a recap, so eh.

and then i wanted to cover jack since i just HAVE to, being he is who he is. we've gotten quite the "friendship". (i also just realized this post is half the people on my list, hmph. interesting) So overall jack actually.... looks good. i mean his disagreement with DDL wasnt a two sided thing, they both have their reasons. i would side with DDL on it based my personal opinion since having all vanilla towns is lame. but jack makes some decent posts in his actual banter, and he also throws down his opinions of people which is more than a lot of players have put out (then again it's day 1 and i can relate that it's hard to get reads sometimes)

I think that should be good, in retrospect, if i was to go into my list of 6, the other three, Dom, Mac, and DrWilgy, well i couldnt do the former two, and will change them if they dont show up tomorrow (the phase), and DrWilgy doesnt have enough for me to judge him im pretty sure. (at least, if im remembering right)

In these next two, he changes his list of folks for evo votes:

sprityo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:24 am @DrWilgy, my list has changed. Quite drastically in fact due to 1/3 being dead. I would add DDL to the list since he is a prominent player in my opinion, And I would take off Dom since he has yet to appear. You are hesititantly on there still solely because I need 5-6 players but you haven't done anything spectacular to have me want to keep you there. I'll also add Nutella as a hesitant since she appears to be wanting to do the right thing but I'm not 100% sold on it. I think. This all coming without checking back on information is what I'd have my list at now. I'm keeping mac on the list since he has at least appeared and I'm interested in seeing what he does.

Finally, the original list I made, was for all the reasons I listed. Nothing more nothing less. Hence why you're now a hesitant instead of "lol cause he's a doctor"

sprityo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:25 am So if you wanted an updated list it'd be

LC
DDL
Nutella
Mac
*DrWilgy

He finally starts opining on people. Here he's criticizng my list of five (Fred, Neverwhere, Nutella, Sprityo, Tink):

sprityo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:48 pm Question, why is Nutella and fredwood in that list?

Fredwood in general is looking better than you Gman.

I haven't really noticed Nutella much today, but I'm confident almost no one would vote for her. I feel like you added her in the for no apparent reason.

sprityo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:57 pm I'd like to throw in, that I'm not entirely sure where you're getting the whole list from in the first place. Sidestepping a good half of the player base? Like you place either a "doesn't look good" or a "looks good, but then bad" on most everyone in the list you made. Excluding DF and DDL as the most prominent looking among the bunch. Back to the 5 people you mentioned though. In my eyes you've listed them as follows:

Disagreement man (Fred)
Somewhere (Neverwhere)
Hazelnut friend (Nutella)
Fluffy (Sprityo)
I do what I want. (Tink)

Realistically, you could've replaced 3 or 4 of these people with other players and still be about the same kind of list

The tin foil in my wants to say he's trying to protect more than just himself. I want to believe there is a teammate in my list of five.

sprityo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:01 pm To directly answer your question, I'd pick tink, I don't think I'd pick everywhere since I haven't checked on their content. But I'd much rather lynch someone like DrWilgy, boo, Dom/Dyslexicon/Eloh, and Gman. Not to say I have evidence on them, but that I don't feel it in my gut that they're whole-y town sided. Something more so I should review over tonight since I'll be driving home and more than likely miss the lynch. In which case, I'm leaving my vote on tink.

Bingo. Pay dirt. Here we go! He says my list is dumb:
-Fredwood
-Neverwhere
-Nutella
-Sprityo
-Tink

And would rather hit someone on this list:
-Boo
-Dom
-DrWilgy
-Dyslexicon
-Eloh
-G-Man

Which leaves out these four:
-DFaraday
-Dragon D. Luffy
-Long Con
-MacDougall

If there was a teammate in my list, who do you think it is most likely to be?

If there is a teammate on his preferred hit list, who do you think it is most likely to be?

If there is a teammate on his list of omissions, who do you think it is most likely to be?

Here we see G-man's notes related to Sprityo and I see 3 questions following. Several players responded immediately, but I don't recall seeing any use of these questions from G-Man or any hard opinions based on these lists or questions.

G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:15 pm I think we're going to want to return to these lists overnight and also on Day 5. For now, I don't trust the Eloh option.

G-Man wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:19 pm I'm going against my better judgement anyway. Voting Eloh.

Why though? Why?

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:16 am It seems the first mention of 'black hole' Pokemon came after that post of mine. Perhaps I just screwed it up from the beginning with Faraday asking about Mew & Mewtwo getting evo votes. Neither one of them are baddies though, so that was a piss poor reading/assumption on my part. I've been pretty bad about keeping roles straight in my head lately, but this is a new low, as that post was the very first post from a player in the game.

KK, theory, what if the 'black hole' of evolution votes was discussed in btsc between Faraday and G-man before any of this popped up in the thread? Perhaps that would explain G-Man's confusion.

I'm going to take a break and resume after lunch.

Questions for G-Man -

• Why should I not think that your Sprityo vote was a bus?

• What have you gained from those three questions you made when you first ISO'd Sprityo post mortem?

• Why the hell did you vote Eloh? there were plenty of voting options that day, but for some reason you were inclined to vote against what you had said one moment before. Why?

And lastly a quote from Nutella that caught my eye.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:25 pm Morons.

Let's lynch, in no particular order: Fredwood, DFaraday, and G-Man. Two out of three of them are the baddies.

G-Man, when I'm done flipping through you who do you want me to look at? I think it's only fair for you to make the call on who I ISO next.

I've been monitoring those three lists and questions. I've been wrestling with them in my head as people are lynched and NK'd. Very few people responded to my questions, so I've been dealing with it internally. If it feels like it was dropped, that may be because I'm trying no to over-think it like I'm prone to doing. We're now left with just one person in the list of people I suspected (Neverwhere), one person in the list Sprityo omitted from his list (DDL), and the rest of us are on his list of "I'd rather we lynch one of these folks." We're now past the point of asking two of those three questions. It's now a matter of these:

1) Do you think Sprityo was defending himself only or himself and a teammate by calling my list dumb?
2) Do you think Sprityo omitted both of his teammates from his desired hit list?
3) If neither of the above, who among Sprityo's list makes the most sense as a cred-grab bus option?

Re: evolution black hole- That was poor comprehension on my part. Your theory will remain valid until I am dead.

As for your direct questions:

-There is no point for me to bus a teammate on Day 3, especially not an active one. If my catching up on the thread were just an act, why actually post my player notes that day if I am not in the cross-hairs? I kept my word. I posted thoughts on everyone, finished my re-read, and made an educated vote. With five people in my suspect list, why would I go for the only one that hurts my chances of winning the game when my team is well on our way to curb-stomping the civvies? On Day 3, Tink was a perfectly acceptable choice. You yourself voted for her in the hopes of eliminating a low-participating player. If I was bad, I wouldn't bus that early. It would have made more sense to vote sideways, for Tink to get in with the low-participation haters, or miss/abstain again for "not being caught up."

-Looks like I addresses this one above.

-I did exactly what I criticized Fred for doing. My back and forth with Fred Day 3 was by design. I was fishing. I was testing him. He came out looking good enough to me that I wanted to try to avoid a Fred lynch, so I voted Eloh to save Fred. I don't know what made me vote for him on Day 5. That was just stupidity brought on by the wide vote-spread. Frankly, this game should be used as evidence against ever letting me represent The Syndicate at the Mafia Championships.

-I've more or less cleared you and Boo in my mind, which leaves DDL, Dyslexicon, Neverwhere, and Quin. I'd say comb through Quin and DDL. I don't know how much can be gleaned from Neverwhere or Dyslexicon. DDL almost feels too convenient for me to believe, because he's the last person left on Sprityo's list of omissions. That list was nothing but players who you wouldn't be surprised to see flip baddie though, which is odd. DDL also cast the scantest of shade on my assumption that Jack's NK was a mistake, by saying it was probably because Jack wasn't being suspected by anyone but that was on Day 3, well after the fact. But he's a proud one, that Dragon. I could see him not taking well to the suggestion that he done goofed if the assertion was repeated like it was. But he did correct himself just minutes later. I don't know. Suppressing my natural distrust of him is getting harder to do.

Quin might fit the bill if all Sprityo had to help him on the early kills was the inconsistent presence of DFaraday and the absent Dom. Then again, so could Dyslexicon.

ISO'ing Dyslexicon isn't getting me anywhere. I barely remember the beginning of the game. What say you?

I struggle to read Neverwhere as well. I can't really get on a high horse and preach the virtues of staying up to date in games because I've fallen behind a few times myself. Having no memories of her to pull from, I don't know what she is capable of. She sounds sincere, and that just means she'll never get an inch of slack in future games if she's lying now. But that doesn't help us now.

It just dawned on me that we may actually see everyone vote today. That hasn't happened all game.

If I move Neverwhere to a yellow color, I am left looking at DDL, Dyslexicon, and Quin. Of the three, I feel like Dyslexicon or Quin could be the final baddie. Dyslexicon disappeared sometime during Night 1, not to be seen again for ages. Dom was absent until Quin took over mid-game, a-la Golden the Coward 2.0 in Economics Mafia.

I'm expressing surprise at the notion that we may all actually vote finally. This game has been nightmare.

Also, Golden the Coward subbed into Economics and hit the ground running. His tenacity to read and understand made him seem good when we were trying to find the last baddie- him. Hitting a game mid-stream is great cover for a baddie because it takes forever to build up the kind of content required for people to form opinions about you. You also get the benefit of the doubt because you have to catch up on a deeper level. In other words, you may have earned a seat on the back burner as a baddie. By the time I caught on to Golden the Coward, we had maybe 10 minutes left to vote and I had posted in pics and memes all game, so I got lynched at Lylo and the baddies won.

I know what you mean. The tinfoil-loving conspiracy theorist in me is tempted to vote Quin but Dyslexicon pulling a drive-by on him is odd. Heck, Dyslexicon voting at all is kind of odd. Know what I mean?

We could always vote for Dyslexicon. If we're wrong, at least we'll have talkers left. That doesn't help with Neverwhere though. She talks, just not much. With it being 5v1v1, we could be at risk of Day 9 being the final day. Any way you slice it, being wrong today still leaves a lot of questions for tomorrow.

I think Dyslexicon might be the least bad choice of the bunch. Even if we're wrong, the game isn't over and the last baddie can't keep Dyslexicon around as a potentially missing vote for the next day. That way the baddie has to win against nothing but players who have been present all game long. Clearing the non-participant smokescreen will even the playing field and make it a battle of wits.

I won't be awake for the lynch post. I'm going to vote for Dyslexicon. Quin may want to move his vote unless he's open to Dyslexicon coming back to tie it up.

I guess it was worth a shot. Back to the drawing board.

I see we were a talkative bunch today.

If I were to rank everyone from civvie to baddie, it looks more or less like this:

G-Man
Boo & DrWilgy
Neverwhere
DDL & Quin

Anyone else want to make a rainbow?

i like this. If the baddie was blocked, someone knows who they are. If the baddie abstained or failed to send in the kill, they just gave us an extra day to hunt them down.

I evo voted for the following:

D0: Timmer
N1: Dom
N2: Boo
N3: Dom
N4: Boo
N5: Tink
N6: Neverwhere
N7: Tink
N8: [Abstained]

I threw votes at Dom back when he was AWOL because it seemed safe to vote for a non-player rather than risk voting for an active baddie by accident. Then Quin replaced Dom on Day 4, which ended that plan. I abstained last night just to be safe. There's a chance that everyone here has evolved already anyway but I abstained in case the last baddie still needed one more vote.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:45 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:27 am I evo voted for the following:

D0: Timmer
N1: Dom
N2: Boo
N3: Dom
N4: Boo
N5: Tink
N6: Neverwhere
N7: Tink
N8: [Abstained]

I threw votes at Dom back when he was AWOL because it seemed safe to vote for a non-player rather than risk voting for an active baddie by accident. Then Quin replaced Dom on Day 4, which ended that plan. I abstained last night just to be safe. There's a chance that everyone here has evolved already anyway but I abstained in case the last baddie still needed one more vote.

Why not just abstain all those other nights?

It would have been boring that way. I voted where I saw something I liked, minus the Dom votes.

I could vote for Quin. Dom being Sprityo and DFaraday's teammate makes some sense.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:11 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:08 pm I could vote for Quin. Dom being Sprityo and DFaraday's teammate makes some sense.

No it doesn't. How does it make sense?

I refer you to my "Jack's NK Night 1 was an unforced error" theory.

I voted for Tink twice after we lynched Eloh because it clicked that Eloh had info on Tink. At least that's how I chose to interpret it. Neverwhere on Night 6 for the heck of it. Paranoia was setting in and I didn't trust any of the actives.

I wasn't paranoid about Dom's status until someone subbed in for him. Then I did a