The Syndicate

I remember boomslang irking my buttons early on, this seems like a good opportunity to revisit why

Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:26 am k

vote sprityo aubergine

I think Boomslang looks fine. Cbob would be my next choice, but I don’t feel educated enough

then why are you voting for sprityo?

I gotta vote in the next two hours before work, likely voting for cbob or boomslang

I'm dropping a vote on [VOTE: boomslang] aubergine aubergine. I'll try to check in during my lunch break and see if anything's developed, but that'll probably be after the day ends

huh

did anyone vote after golden announced sprityo's votal penalty

:/

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:59 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:35 am:/

Who else should we lynch?

if it weren't for the fact that I have 2 lives remaining I'd almost be okay with dying just for the PoE benefits. if everything we think we know is true then the real killer of sprityo has to be among you, epi, spacedaisy or Scotty.

My gut feeling says it's Scotty, if it's not him then my second guess would be you. You've been the one pushing the "it's probably Scotty or Kyle" narrative the hardest with relatively weak reasons for clearing spacedaisy, epi, and yourself.

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:42 amHe hasn’t capitalized on any of the information he’s gathered and those that we have helped him with. He decided to take his own game in his hands by making cases himself. Or so he said. It’s still more of the same.

hey quick question what the fuck does this paragraph even mean?

what information have I gathered and what does it mean to capitalize on it? when have I ever said I was going to take the game into my own hands and make cases myself? I've never said any of that

like i said id make an effort to catch up but like.... you made it sound like I was planning to put on a jaggedjimmyjay mask and get really unnecessarily serious and start running the game or something.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:48 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:02 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:59 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:35 am:/

Who else should we lynch?

if it weren't for the fact that I have 2 lives remaining I'd almost be okay with dying just for the PoE benefits. if everything we think we know is true then the real killer of sprityo has to be among you, epi, spacedaisy or Scotty.

My gut feeling says it's Scotty, if it's not him then my second guess would be you. You've been the one pushing the "it's probably Scotty or Kyle" narrative the hardest with relatively weak reasons for clearing spacedaisy, epi, and yourself.

Ignore my last post, I'm an idiot and somehow looked right past this.
I'm not going to offer reasons for clearing myself. That's not my job. The reason for clearing Epi is that he was instrumental in the cases against LC and nutella, as far as I can tell. I also truly do not believe that he would have killed sprityo there, and independent of all this, he is a strong town read.
I've been firmly town reading Daisy all game and nothing has really changed that. I really don't see her being bad either.

So it's you or Scotty, and Scotty is right up there with Epi and Daisy in the battle for my strongest town read if you take this whole POE thing out. So I'm landing on you, but I've also spent a good deal of time wondering aloud whether this path is really worth following. I still think it could be the case that the nightkills were not restricted to targets within a player's tribe.

okay but what is it about spacedaisy's gameplay in particular that's given you a strong and consistent townread

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:34 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:30 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:52 am Sloonei dancing around the "why is SD town" question makes me want to vote for him.

Why?

Because civs generally have a reason for civ-reading somebody so strongly. Nobody was asking for a case with posting history laid out chapter and verse, but you didn't even say "I feel her reads are genuine, particularly of X and Y" or whatever. Your read of her is a smooth surface that we can't interact with.

this is what bugs me as well. I don't have a problem with sloonei townreading SD for vague reasons by itself, but the fact that she's being excluded from the process of elimination pool with no presented reason other than good vibes seems shady, when he's presenting the narrative that it has to be Scotty or me because it can't be the other two or himself

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:54 pm Do you suspect daisy, kyle?

I don't have any reason in particular to suspect or trust daisy. I think daisy is a skilled and experienced player and very well capable of feigning civviness. most of my method of reading SD derives from watching how and when she presentd reads on me. that's not the topic we're discussing.

it's strange to me that you've been putting such effort into pushing SD away from the PoE box when almost everything you've just said about why you trust SD can loosely apply to Scotty as well and don't necessarily cut someone off from being a member of the Even Stevens

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:33 pm Who are you gonna vote for and why?

probably you or scotty but like.... realistically I'll most likely vote in whatever way allows me to not die

unless I'm up against someone I townread who's on their second life in which case I think the pragmatic choice would be to sacrifice my first life I guess

reviewing spacedaisy brb

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:36 pm Why did scum sloonei campaign to save scotty and push to lynch kyle for multiple phases in a row, even when kyle wasn't on the poll?

why would that be civ exclusive behavior?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:00 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:47 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:36 pm Why did scum sloonei campaign to save scotty and push to lynch kyle for multiple phases in a row, even when kyle wasn't on the poll?

why would that be civ exclusive behavior?

Because of what scotty just said. If I'm bad, I'm happy to lynch either of yu. I'd probably even prefer Scotty given his level of activity compared to yours in this game (no offense). I've suspected you over him for several days now and been very clear about this.

okay but that implies that a mafia Sloonei would come in and talk about how much they don't care who gets lynched. I don't believe that's true. it wouldn't be good strategy.

and that's exactly what I'm talking about actually. as soon as sprityo died and it was brought up that sprityo's killer could be narrowed down to a small circle of players, you were the one to quickly stratify that grouping of players, placing yourself above the middle, ensuring that at the very least Wilgy, Scotty, and I would be lynched before you would be. you've meanwhile been bringing up the idea that maybe cross tribe kills are actually possible after all, setting things up for the eventuality where all that's left in the PoE is you and Epignosis, at which point you'd have bought 4-5 cycles in which to either expand PoE or figure something else out.

that's not to say that the only reason why you'd treat the PoE in the way you've done would be for those reasons but I think saying that being specific about your lynches RE the sprityo murder crime is an indication of you being civ is false. I think you'd push the same sort of investigation regardless of whether you were the one who did the murder

what was the case on cbob? I'm not positive I read the latter half of the last day phase

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:51 pmI don't understand why you would suspect Sloonei for giving you a surface read of civ for me, but not suspect me?

what I said about sloonei had basically nothing to do with you. my point was that Sloonei's order of operations for the process of elimination on the whole pika2.0 thing was potentially self-serving and shouldn't qualify as a reason to trust him.

him putting you high up on the list for reasons that he also applied to scotty, who was low on his list doesn't look good to me.

your being good or bad isn't particularly relevant to Sloonei's treatment of you and others in regards to the PoE. the only way Sloonei pulling you away from the fire looks bad for both you and him is if you're both evens, which seems unlikely and also isn't the point that I'm arguing.

oh

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:22 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:12 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:51 pmI don't understand why you would suspect Sloonei for giving you a surface read of civ for me, but not suspect me?

what I said about sloonei had basically nothing to do with you. my point was that Sloonei's order of operations for the process of elimination on the whole pika2.0 thing was potentially self-serving and shouldn't qualify as a reason to trust him.

him putting you high up on the list for reasons that he also applied to scotty, who was low on his list doesn't look good to me.

your being good or bad isn't particularly relevant to Sloonei's treatment of you and others in regards to the PoE. the only way Sloonei pulling you away from the fire looks bad for both you and him is if you're both evens, which seems unlikely and also isn't the point that I'm arguing.

Bullshit. I am bad because of a hypothetical in which I must be bad. You're giving no consideration to the possibility that I genuinely town read Spacedaisy and just jumping to the conclusion that it must be fabricated. Of course Daisy's alignment is relevant to my treatment of her. How could it not be? This isn't even an argument. This is just trying to force a scum read on me.

what are you talking about

If you're mafia you can genuinely townread spacedaisy just as easily as you could if you're town. Technically, easier, I guess. and there'd be no harm in doing so since you'd still have 3-4 lynches before needing to worry about it mattering so long as you kept the focus on the lower members of the list

my argument was meant to refute the things you're implying should count as something that only a civ motivated Sloonei would do. you keep saying "if I were mafia then why would I care who gets lynched out of the PoE and in what order it happens as long as it's not me?" but it seems obvious why you would care, regardless of alignment, and why curating the PoE list as well as possible would still be in your best interest.

hhhhfuck

voting for [VOTE: sloonei] aubergine for self preservation I guess, and also in the hopes that he's the pika2 killer

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:03 pmI'm talking about your argument which is based on my treatment of daisy but which gives no consideration to why I might honestly town read her.

that's what I'm saying. your being honest or dishonest about your read on SpaceDaisy has very little bearing on anything.

that being said, there is something that i did fail to consider. I didn't realize it til last minute.

linki.... oh.... hm.... so it wasn't that.

that actually clears a bunch up

i think we should lynch Scotty tomorrow

i..... think.

sorry give me a minute i might be jumping the gun lol

something important just clicked, but i want to do a little bit of backreading to make sure I'm not just jumping to a wrong conclusion

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:31 pm Let's say Sea Salt that you can only vote for one of the followng four Me Epi or Scotty. Who is it going to be? Because feel confdent that one of us s an Even and am not afrad of beng part of a four PoE pool because I know t's not me. I'd rather put my ass on the lne and get us movng n the rght direction than let the tinfoil lead us off trac. So who is it in your opinion yle?

SVS did I tae myself out of the group? No, I did not. Focus on this group and 'm certan we will get an Even.

I have to go to work but I'll answer this in more detail later when I'm off for the day and have had time to review some important details regarding timing and whatnot but right now I'm strongly leaning towards Scotty. like 85%

Sea Salt is my real name IRL

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:53 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:54 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:31 pm Let's say Sea Salt that you can only vote for one of the followng four Me Epi or Scotty. Who is it going to be? Because feel confdent that one of us s an Even and am not afrad of beng part of a four PoE pool because I know t's not me. I'd rather put my ass on the lne and get us movng n the rght direction than let the tinfoil lead us off trac. So who is it in your opinion yle?

SVS did I tae myself out of the group? No, I did not. Focus on this group and 'm certan we will get an Even.

I have to go to work but I'll answer this in more detail later when I'm off for the day and have had time to review some important details regarding timing and whatnot but right now I'm strongly leaning towards Scotty. like 85%

Well of course you lean that way- if not you then me. Sloonei shouldn’t be lynched tomorrow, and SD looks civ as fuck.

I’m strongly leaning towards you, like 100%.

no. that's not actually it. I mean... yeah the fact that I know I'm innocent informs my decision but it's more than that.

sloonei's flip and his ability in particular puts some things in a different perspective in kind of an important way. I think he's actually much less likely to be mafia, and spacedaisy is... moderately less likely I think? Epignosis is still the least suspect based on his interactions with nut and long con. I know its not me, so that leaves you, with maybe a very niche chance of it being Space Daisy.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:06 am what does this even mean and where am I guilty of doing it?

you postured yourself so you were never in the PoE pool by putting 3 players as lynch priorities,

this is no longer important.

I find it disconcerting that I've been the only one speculating about the possibility of cross-tribe kills. I don't currently believe that it was in play, but we don't know that it wasn't. I'm going to bring that up 100 times out of 100. Also this is a convoluted plan and bad sloon would have just not said "Hey, we still don't know who killed sprit" after wilgy flipped strex when no one else seemed to want to acknowledge that fact.

what?

I wanted to get people to consider my motives because I felt I was being tunneled. I'm vindicated now, right? we can accept that I was being tunneled and that lynch was an errant one, can't we? I was trying to push people off of me. I was hoping others might arrive at the civilian indicators in my behavior if I guided them there. You misconstrued these actions to justify a vote for me, it seems. I get self-preservation, but you pursued me in a way that I'm not sure I like.

your motivations re: spacedaisy only make sense now with the context of your role, there was no reason to believe that was the case prior to the flip. we hadn't seen any pseudo info type roles so i was under the impression that there just wasn't anything like that in this setup.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:17 am"Potentially self-serving... shouldn't be a reason to trust him." It seemed more like you were denying any potential for good-doing on my behalf because my actions were "potentially self-serving". First off, all my actions are self-serving. Second, of course there's potential for nefariousness in things. But there's also potential for honesty in those same things. My beef with you here, which I was desperately trying to get across while also running around at work, was that you seemed to be turning a completely blind eye toward the other side of this argument. I don't see you leaving the door open at all to consider that I wasn't doing the things you were accusing me of, and that you were even willfully ignoring the points which would work against you (ie, my town read on Daisy).

i wasn't accusing you of being bad for doing the things you did, I was explaining why your explanation for how you couldn't possibly be bad because you were accusing some players more than others was faulty.

Yeah, see? This is bullshit. For one, Scotty is one of my top town reads, which is the reason I've been so damn conflicted about this whole thing for the last week. But I'm not certain about him, so he's not someone I felt comfortable dismissing right away. And then you go on to deny the relevance of my read on Daisy to your read on me. It seems like it should be a central aspect to all of this, but you're just denying that it means much of anything here and continuing to push forward with the one-sided view of me. Either you are trapped in a tunnel due to circumstances, or you're bad and trying to force a justification for the vote you know you need to put on me.

Ok but see? don't you see the contradiction there? spacedaisy were both top town reads for you but you ONLY considered the possibilities of a bad Scotty and never considered the possibilities of a bad spacedaisy.

I don't really understand the insinuation that Spacedaisy's actual alignment should have had a logical direct correlation to yours. my issue with you was related to your treatment of your spacedaisy read in relation to your other reads, not the actual read itself.

again, all of that makes sense in light of current events

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:45 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:17 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:03 pmI'm talking about your argument which is based on my treatment of daisy but which gives no consideration to why I might honestly town read her.

your being honest or dishonest ... has very little bearing on anything.

That's... that's what this game is about. what?

...no? do you think that mafia members only exclusively tell lies about their reads?

do you see no possible variation of events where you would ever townread a player while being a mafia member

i'm glad that "pika2 killer" has caught on

i think we should start calling the mafia teams "the Strex Armstrongs" and "Even Stevens"

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:57 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:45 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:17 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:03 pmI'm talking about your argument which is based on my treatment of daisy but which gives no consideration to why I might honestly town read her.

your being honest or dishonest ... has very little bearing on anything.

That's... that's what this game is about. what?

...no? do you think that mafia members only exclusively tell lies about their reads?

do you see no possible variation of events where you would ever townread a player while being a mafia member

you clipped out the context, that was specifically referring to your level of honesty re: your read on SD.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:42 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:02 pm voting for [VOTE: sloonei] aubergine for self preservation I guess, and also in the hopes that he's the pika2 killer

what the hell was your read on me?

I was fairly convinced there was a good chance you were bad up until quin posted something about having an idea what was going on between you and SD that made me think you might have been masons or something. i was getting ready to suggest a cfd on like a 3rd player or something but there wasn't enough time left.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:52 pmhhhhfuck

this was the actual moment it hit me

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:13 amI think mafia members are inherently inclined to give reads that they don't believe in, and thus are more likely to tell lies, yes.

in what scenario would a mafia member ever lie about a town read, barring the scenario where the read in question were their teammate? by definition mafia members are almost always telling the truth about their town reads.

I see possible scenarios where a mafia member can earnestly town read a player. But I don't see how you could have arrived at a suspicion of me based on a behavior of mine without any consideration of its level of authenticity.

sloonei you were citing your specific behaviors as being purely indicative of civ alignment and they weren't so I disputed it directly because i was putting your level of authenticity into question. that was kind of the whole point.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:31 am Kyle, I am increasingly ready to lynch you. Your arguments make no logical sense to me. Why would Sloonei include himself in considering who his personal PoE pool has been limited to? That was what Sloonei was doing, not posturing, he was the playing the game. Neither Civ nor mafia in their right mind would ever include themselves as possibly being a contender in their own personal PoE pool of suspects.

that's not what im saying at all

obviously sloonei didn't need to include himself in his own PoE. I was saying that Sloonei avoided being in the PoE pool in general by jumping in and leading the charge on the whole PoE thing early and pushing specific narratives so that he was out of the firing line. Wilgy was lynched because of Sloonei's PoE. Scotty and I were put into the fire because of Sloonei's PoE etc etc etc.

it literally says right there in the post you quoted that the thing that bugged me was the discrepancy in your treatment of Scooty and SD

okay

so like are you done now or do you want to keep typing at me

I legit thought you were a good candidate for being the pika2 killer so I pushed that option. maybe i was a little too driven by the fact that if i didnt manage to figure out who it was asap then I was the most likely to get chopped off the PoE chopping block. maybe that led me to what I now see was probably a wrong conclusion or whatever. Its not the first time it's happened and it probably won't be the last.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:03 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:56 am okay

so like are you done now or do you want to keep typing at me

I should be done, it's 3 AM and I'm very tired.

sorry for getting all fired up at you. It's more just vengeful excitement than anything else, and I feel like I needed to inject some emotion into my gameplay and you're the nearest target.

I also really do not know what you were thinking though, and anything you can do (now or later) to clarify that would make my time reading you a lot easier.

it's really okay and emotions are fine i guess

its good that you're finding a way to be involved again even if it's kind of inconvenient for me

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:00 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:48 am it literally says right there in the post you quoted that the thing that bugged me was the discrepancy in your treatment of Scooty and SD

Yes. I know. My point is that I still don't see why this was suspicious in the first place. You're just saying that it bugs you. I don't know why.

And I'm trying to understand why you voted for me beyond self-preservation. I'm struggling. You've referenced this, and you've referenced that you felt vaguely bad about me, but then you've also said that you were just trying to dispute my claims about my behavior needing to be civilian-indicative. I'm not sure what your thought process was at the end of this last day phase.

was I genuinely suspicious, or was I not? what were the reasons one way or the other?

when i see people propping themselves up on faulty arguments it irks my buttons. it looks bad. that's what i saw happening with you. you were saying "I would only do ____ things as a civ and never as a mafia" even though there was still clear benefit to doing those things as mafia. it wasn't the fact that you did the things at all but the fact that you insisted that they were things only a civ Sloonei would do that irked me, along with the contradictions in your treatment of Scotty versus Sloonei in your PoE list. I thought your dismissing SD from any possibility of being sprityo's killer despite her being basically in the same category as Scotty was contradictory and a sign of you not caring about the roof at best, and opportunism at worst. the possibility of SD being removed from your pool because of background knowledge didn't occur to me until like 10 minutes before the end of day.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:18 pmIf we don’t go Pika2 route tomorrow again (I like the name Kyle)

thank you, it's good cus it rhymes.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:16 pmTruth is, we are looking at a game with probably 2 civs left, maybe 3.

hey what??

oh did you mean to opposite thing

the*

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:47 pm I’d even be willing to agree that if we lynch Kyle all the way and he’s not bad, lynch me next to clear the PoE. But not me before Kyle kthnx

that's my line 0:

i don't mind going first if it's necessary for PiE

we've got one Even Steven narrowed down to a small group of people and then beyond that there can't be more than like... 2 Strex Armstrongs and Even Stevens left in total... right? compared to 12 living players?

I have confidence that this game can result in a win without me being part of it, so I don't really mind being a broken egg in the process of omelet creation, if it's necessary.

that being said, aubergine [VOTE: Scooty] aubergine