The Syndicate

nice clutch town! wow neon you did amazing!

Sorry for the tunnel Porscha

Points For Falcon Mafia:
-Bad voting record
-Shielded hard by 2 mafia seeming to scumsided, Wilgy's flip on him potentially tactical
-Weird that he thought there was a mafia in Neon/Wilgy but voted Porscha.. without really explaining why
-Anne thought Wilgy/Falcon before she died, seemed like the only substantial team read made

Points for Falcon Town:
-Tracked nowhere
-Sort of seemed like he was being pocketed by mafia/they were vying for his vote
-Apparently, I found a post in another game him saying he doesn't post as much as scum because he dislikes lying, and here he has posted a decent amount
-Some lines feel genuine/lacking TMI.

Points For Porscha Mafia:
-It felt like Wilgy's push on Porscha/interactions with her and the way he approached her differed from how he approached anyone else
-Wilgy turned read on Porscha, Wilgy reluctant to push Porscha
-Pyxxy death, also lucy death when saying to look at her/Wilgy
-Steers away from Wilgy many EODs, big factor in the Anne ML which happened specifically EOD
-Posts just had generally seemed wolfy yesterday; seems to be pushing anywhere she thinks will take off, including attempts to push Ruri - similar agenda to Wilgy
-Partnery approach to Wilgy, pushes Wilgy when she thinks it will take off then realizes he is salvageable and backs off, no real explanation for read change

Points For Porscha Town:
-Seems towny/solvey today, came off a bit better than Falc in their initial interactions
-Looks better from WIlgy spew than Falcon
-Claims polarized scumplay
-Some potential decent spew



--The stuff against Porscha still feels more substantial to me.

i'd say i'd lean 70/30 on porscha over falcon. but i won't pretend that there aren't some decent points against falcon rounded up, so hopefully you guys are right if he does flip

it's sort of a weird scenario, but i just think the game as a whole makes more sense with a team of wilgy/porscha than wilgy/falcon because the MLs felt more intentionally steered by porscha in places, and i really did see how she was navigating things away from wilgy

falcon's voting record isn't great, and he could fit in his own way, as the way he was being shielded by jack and wilgy, but i'm going to stick to my initial instinct with this, and what i do feel the kills point more toward.

like part of why i was starting to feel so convinced wilgy would flip red was i really really saw the porscha/wilgy teaming, even with my theory that porscha thought the lucy kill looked more damning for her partner wilgy than it did, then sort of tried to throw stuff at him and backed off.. i wasn't really assured by her explanation

hm okay

idk how to feel about Porscha's stuff on Falcon. I'm leaning towards it being.. not super convincing. some points are okay, but then she is sort of throwing quotes out there but in a lot of the quotes being like "idk, is it REALLY paired though?" - like some of it feels like work to show she's doing work

there is some stuff from porscha that feels genuine but i also sort of think it's just been good scumplay

i think the worst part of falcon is he has scum sided w/a lot of his voting and was protected by mafia, like i ain't going to stick my neck out for him either.. but idk porscha's approach to today just more-so fits what i'd expect a wolf to be doing here, so i think i'm sticking w/my porscha vote.

I've been busy pray but I'll make sure to be on before day end to read Porscha's stuff and make a final decision

@falcon45ca can you answer the question I asked Porscha and Wilgy: what are you most proud of about your play this game and what is your biggest regret?

The idea of posting a scum game you didn't do that well and claiming you're polarized from it seems like a good scum tactic

But I moreso just want to read for a Vibe

I was going to do stuff tonight (assessment of Porscha vs. Falcon) but my buddy brought his French bulldog puppy over and we've been distracted watching it play with my cat

well that's a much townier answer than wilgy's was yesterday

i wish i had a better idea of your wolf range.

i have to finish up some stuff for work, guess i'll think on things later

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:41 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:37 pm finished Wilgy ISO

basically, Wilgy is soft pushing Falcon all game

then, does an ISO of falcon after Jack dies, switches, says Falcon looks spewed town, rides on this - also says porscha and anne look bad from jack spew

this is probably not a great look for Falcon, because a "powerwolfy" mindset which Wilgy did seem to have would point more towards Falcon being a wolf partner than Porscha.

NANOOK/Neon I'm still very set on being town.

i need to reread Porscha ISO and organize some of my questions/see if the stuff i was confbiasing from her is as bad as i originally thought

I will flip green.

What does your worldview look like then? Is it just Porscha, or what other possibilities do you realistically see?

I'm still torn on whether it's you or Porscha. I could see either.

Creature is clear, not him.

Neon is beyond spewed + just town.

NANOOK I really don't think is mafia anymore. For one he's not vanilla, and the last mafia is very likely vanilla based on the OP. His claim has also checked out. For two I just think he believed his read on Wilgy and that he's spewed.

I'm still voting Porscha. I just want to get it right between you/Porscha today because this game has been going on for over 3 weeks and I'm tired. I would say I am 60/40 toward it being Porscha > you, but I was like 90/10 start of day on her.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:34 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:27 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:23 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:05 pm jack/wilgy definitely didn't distance much

We should also look at how Wilgy & Jack interacted with their other teammates

i mean there's only Sabi which is low on content/already analyzed

I just did a quick search, and it looked to me that Sabi never mentioned Wilgy or Jack, not even once. Their names pop up from quotes of other players.


Of the remaining players alive, how many were never once mentioned by Sabi?

ehhh this is something you need to figure out if you think it's relevant because it's a bit too semantical for my taste

hmmmmm

the Porscha/Wilgy thing looks a bit less theatery in retrospect and more like Wilgy trying to pocket porscha IDK

finished Wilgy ISO

basically, Wilgy is soft pushing Falcon all game

then, does an ISO of falcon after Jack dies, switches, says Falcon looks spewed town, rides on this - also says porscha and anne look bad from jack spew

this is probably not a great look for Falcon, because a "powerwolfy" mindset which Wilgy did seem to have would point more towards Falcon being a wolf partner than Porscha.

NANOOK/Neon I'm still very set on being town.

i need to reread Porscha ISO and organize some of my questions/see if the stuff i was confbiasing from her is as bad as i originally thought

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:23 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:05 pm jack/wilgy definitely didn't distance much

We should also look at how Wilgy & Jack interacted with their other teammates

i mean there's only Sabi which is low on content/already analyzed

there's like, quite a few times wilgy votes someone else and mentions falc is also acceptable

so Wilgy is pushing Falcon quite a bit at one point early. need to figure out if the shift was tactical.. quite possible since i believe it happened after jack died, and mafia wouldn't want to be down to one

I'm reading Wilgy's ISO. the early stuff looks better for Porscha than for Falcon, but this shit is long

jack/wilgy definitely didn't distance much

Porcha can you talk to me for a second, where am I going wrong in my confbias on you/Wilgy? You never answered me on what really like changed in your read on Wilgy after you started pushing? Like I'm still stuck on my idea that you saw Lucy die and thought you could push Wilgy then backed off.

Also what's your biggest regret this game + what are you most proud of in your play this game?

Porscha can you link some past scum and town games

You might have already but I don't remember

Falcon was also a wagon that never took off all game despite multiple attempts mm

i'll have to reread your interactions. i don't want this to be something where we flip you and you are actually town and i feel bad for not doing due diligence today/looking at that. on the surface level i just keep thinking of pyxxy's line about you "scared of flipping Wilgy" and how listening to the dead actually helped so much yesterday

obscurity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:01 pm [VOTE: Wilgy] aubergine

At this point I'm just listening to dead people, I've listened to myself enough and it's just been wrong

Will look into where Pyxxy was looking but don't myself changing this vote

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:10 pm I think a Porscha wagon coming out of nowhere is poor play today.

Yeet within me or Neon today.

Also there's a vibe within Ruri's vote for me, but it's probably just Shia's flip making me want to reassess the PoE.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 8:18 pm Those voting Porscha,

Does Porscha only look W if they are on a team with me on it? All of Porscha's reactions to me while we were bickering does not feel wolf. Porscha should be assessed, but I don't think is the first of remaining wolves we get, if we get there. I think the order of Neon > Ruri > Porscha is correct, otherwise we miss.

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 9:00 pm Oscar speaking of dead towns who had wilgy in poe. So did multiple of them also have you in poe. I have not forgotten and you should not either

Oh my quotes randomly worked.

Now I can't tell if Wilgy is like, intentionally trying to make himself look paired with Porscha.

But his whole play was kind of a refuse in audacity so hard to tell.

I'll look more closely after work and get quotes

I guess my biggest concern on Falcon is it has felt like the whole mafia team has protected him. Was this necessary for v!Falcon?

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME if you can I'd recommend reading the start of yesterday with some of the Wilgy/Porscha/Falcon stuff. I was trying to quote stuff but it stopped working and I'm multitasking

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:04 pm Anyways gamestate sort of points away from bussing, obviously its possible yesterday but, yeah, im inclined to just solve falcon, if he's town then find the busser, but I don't really want to start from the assumption of a wilgy bus yesterday when we know at least 3 members of the team were actively avoiding bussing (and given jack is one of them i think it was probably coordinated given his general tendencies)

My problem with Porscha is it felt like she actively pushed away from Wilgy a lot of days (including yesterday). Then just sort of resigned to it.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:00 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:59 pm That D4 actually a point in Falcon's favor to me because does the whole mafia team just pile on Creature? Like it seemed like Jack was trying to convince Falcon there

I mean wilgy and jack were willing to vote together

Was falcon around for eod?

I think so yeah

Jesus this game start was September 29th. It's literally been over 3 weeks.

My last game that wasn't mafiascum length days (these same lengths) was less than 2 weeks and I end gamed. That setup I was a vigilante though. I feel like this game could use kill power.

I ended up abandoning mafiascum because it was too long for me.

That D4 actually a point in Falcon's favor to me because does the whole mafia team just pile on Creature? Like it seemed like Jack was trying to convince Falcon there

I guess I am pretty torn between you and Falcon. I'll list my points on both and ISO again later. Ideally I just want this game to end today due to irl stuff

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:17 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:14 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 1:31 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:54 pm When I'm gone just flip Porscha I think.

like there is no way we are w/w when wilgy was hard trying to get me flipped over him yesterday

to me it felt like he wasn't really trying to get you flipped until i sort of forced him into it..

i mean every time he pushed on you he ended up backing off

i may need to reread some of the interactions but "witty theater" still registers.

yesterday wilgy did not back off. the wagon was like 4 on wilgy 3 on me. it was close. "when you forced him into it"? as in, when you made it clear you thought we were both wolves so wilgy tried to convince you I was in fact a wolf to get the ML on me yesterday before coming into today?

Yesterday Wilgy tried to push at Neon and Ruri. I shot those both down. It was only after I encouraged him to look at you that he started going for you because he was basically out of options near EOD.

I'm not taking his yesterday hugely into account though because I believe a lot of it was anti-spew. But the day before he also pushed you then backed off when it mattered.

Anyway, like, it's obvious I suspect you, but the fact is it can only be a couple people.

Creature is town.

Neon is spewed town and has gone for Wilgy for days.

Basically to me it has to be you, Falcon, or NANOOK. Pyxxy's death points to you. NANOOK I believe is unpaired with Wilgy and Jack. Also I kind of felt like he believed his read on Wilgy. It'd be a weird W/W approach for him to be like "welp, I'm god-reading Wilgy town, but sure he can go" and his role-results and such are proven. The OP says that both sides have a mix of PRs and vanilla:

Setup
~16 Town vs. 4 Mafia
~Both teams have a mix of power roles and vanilla roles.

I think this implies that the last mafia has to be vanilla, since none of the others were, and NANOOK isn't vanilla.

So I think killing you into Falcon in any order wins the game. Falcon's been townier than you the last couple days imo.

Do you disagree with this? If it's not you or Falcon, who am I misclearing?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:19 am

obscurity wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:09 am i'm still attached to my Porscha/Wilgy solve

like i don't read Porscha's post and think she's wolfy but it just like clicked for me hard yesterday with the way they were interacting with each other and it just made sense.

i'm evaluating the odds of Porscha leaving me alive there, but keeping Ruri alive would be risky incase she still had a doctor shot, then a save would afford town another ML

speaking of.. is there any chance that the right move to do is to sleep? mafia either had to hit an unclear or to hit creature and then he gets to distribute a track to the POE? at this point i'm guessing no extra kill power exists

No you don't sleep with a clear alive

Normally I'd agree but mafia hasn't been hitting the clear because they're clearly scared of the track

Ruri was pretty clear but technically an argument could've been spun against her when she's low thread presence

not sure if it's the right move anyway, just something to consider

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 1:31 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:54 pm When I'm gone just flip Porscha I think.

like there is no way we are w/w when wilgy was hard trying to get me flipped over him yesterday

to me it felt like he wasn't really trying to get you flipped until i sort of forced him into it..

i mean every time he pushed on you he ended up backing off

i may need to reread some of the interactions but "witty theater" still registers.

i'm still attached to my Porscha/Wilgy solve

like i don't read Porscha's post and think she's wolfy but it just like clicked for me hard yesterday with the way they were interacting with each other and it just made sense.

i'm evaluating the odds of Porscha leaving me alive there, but keeping Ruri alive would be risky incase she still had a doctor shot, then a save would afford town another ML

speaking of.. is there any chance that the right move to do is to sleep? mafia either had to hit an unclear or to hit creature and then he gets to distribute a track to the POE? at this point i'm guessing no extra kill power exists

I think Neon/NANOOK are town and Creature clear

My POE is probably Porscha/Falcon? I think Anne made a point that Jack shielded Falcon when he may not have necessarily needed to if Falcon was a villager. Plus I think the OP confirms the last mafia is 100% vanilla so the track may not matter as much

I guess I'm waiting to hear what Porscha says. I felt really solid about my Wilgy/Porscha solve yesterday but it's like we're trapped in a room for 48 hours with the same insane peeps so if she's actually town maybe she can convince me in that time

Wilgs did really well. You can't imagine my relief last night my mom literally had to ask me if I was okay irl I couldn't stop smiling just happy I put my ego aside.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME can you claim your exact role? You claimed 3 night actions but shouldn't a joat claim be every night? I just want this established since it should check out but seemed a bit weird with the setup

Voting Porscha

Lucy* died

Alright gl all

I believe I can only post once more. I intent to stick with my vote for many reasons but have no qualms with flipping Porscha either.

Appreciate the work you're doing regardless, Wilgy. I think the biggest thing that would confuse me if you're town is why Wilgy died with a 0/3. Like that's partially why I kind of would expect v!you to push at me a bit.

The only scenario I have to explain that is exactly Porscha wolf since she also focused on Porscha POE a fair bit as did Pyxxy.

anyway i read through your Porscha post and i feel like your stuff against Porscha is a lot more substantial than what you had on Ruri, so you should be voting there.

i'm find with Wilgy/Porscha wagons

i think i only have like 2 more posts but idk if that's being counted now

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:04 pm Like, just yeet me for my jack interactions, then yeet Porscha and the game should be as good as solved after that though.

ok but why do i now feel like wilgy is making this comment while laughing to himself in maf chat with porschaj lkdsjfdlksajf

I've considered some weird combinations (namely something really weird like Ruri/Falcon), but I feel like Porscha/Wilgy team fits the night kills the best.. also Falcon + Ruri both have some mech in their favor (Ruri in addition to the doctor stuff, the no action voyeur from NANOOK, Falcon the no track)

With Ruri I also kind of think doctor is.. a weird claim to make if you're faking it? Especially with a bodyguard in the set-up. Like, you have to bank on this not getting countered, right, which could easily happen from any towny?

Conversation From the Maf Chat Probably™:

Wilgy: let's kill lucy
Porscha: okay but that will make you look really bad so i'll have to bus you
Wilgy: alright nw ill push back great theater

*day turns, Porscha tries pushing then gives up, realizes Wilgy is salvageable*: yasssssss king, now gonna save you every day and win in lylo. we'll just keep obscurity alive to keep scum siding.


FOOLS, i wasn't born yesterday

I just feel like pushing Ruri is ignoring the entire Anne wagon and a lot of wolf interference in this game.

Like if I could chalk off all of the misyeets to town being dumb, then sure. But I can't. IMO the Cape + Anne MLs did not need to happen without wolf interference. And Lilypetal did have Jack interference. Schiavetto I'd have to look into deeper but, he had Ruri as town and you as mafia. And he was worried about people ignoring his reads.

When Neon says 88 dead townies, I assumed she meant all the people in the graveyard who want you dead. So, Wilgy, if you're town, what's happening. Why are all the people who want you dead magically dying? Like, if the kills went differently, you would be mischopped much sooner. Why is the mafia team making kills to protect you?

Porscha feels super wolfy today and Wilgy is ignoring it and pushing Ruri

And Oscar is probably once again confbiasing himself into something dumb but ugh.

that doesn't really answer my question though, i'm more asking you what was going on internally for you to basically go from "wilgy outed" to NVM

Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:06 pm also had to start wondering if wilgy was legitimately framed b/c I thought about it some more and wondered if wilgy was partnered with jack if he would defend that hard or not

okay.. but this is still a pretty drastic difference from you coming in start of day being like "read his ISO he's literally outed"

it almost sounds like you're partnered and you expected people to be pushing on wilgy much more than they were/you were anticipating it, then when you realized it didn't need to happen, shifted gears. like it feels like you went with the vibe of the thread rather than something actually shifting for you on an internal/thought process level

Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:53 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 12:52 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 11:43 am feel weird about Wilgy not showing up yet..

i guess i should ISO him.

Good morning my friend.

I'd have thought by now that my busy/"I have time to burst" play style would've been realized by now just based on when I normally make it to the thread but alas.

While I haven't read everything I've skimmed and thoughts are like this:
I agree with my yeet before lylo. I don't desire to be the easy misyeet that causes us to lose so if the information gained from my yeet pre lylo gets us there then I'm good with that.

With that in mind I do think we are still in a really good position and we should be able to just win by yeeting the last wolves.

I think it's absolutely an absurd thing to think I'd kill Lucy in that position after how hard I shielded Jack.

Porscha's immediate push on me, after they waffled on Jack last cycle, using what I assume is a set up NK is super fucking sketchy and I'd almost recommend that the only wagons be Porscha or I. Flip me with the promise to assess Porscha's push on me gets us a pelt, I think.

I will actually read after work today.

Lmao you tryna thunderdome with me yesterday after your performance? My feelings on jack made sense based on my half ass position in the game yesterday but multiple people waffled on his slot and I wasnt alone in that. I also sheeped lucy read because there had to be a reason she died last night and she had you and me (unsure if she finished eod still having me in poe but regardless she openly stated she was gonna run you up today) in poe. Actually yeah i kinda look like shit now that I've said it out loud lmfao

WHATEVER

I'm not sure how confident I'd be that you are like for sure wolfing or whatever based on the NK because it is painfully obvious that lucy was gonna be on your ass today. But that leaves me thinking if you are town wilgy then wolves did it to explicitly frame you since you look awful from the jack flip and a lucy nk. So I understand why you are suspicious of my push onto you thinking it might be wolf motivated but it's the obvious look that I need to do to entertain why lucy was the NK instead of nook who softed a PR or anne who buried sabi or obscurity who I should probs tinfoil cuz Lucy tinfoiled him too

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:32 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:30 pm but lucy thought it was me/anne/wilgy, and jack flipped mafia so

1. their 3/3 was off already after jack flip and had to be revalled

2. i know they were wrong on me

so i'm a bit hesitant to follow that. part of why i thought they'd like, though, was i thought they were town mafia would want alive to keep pushing bad reads.. so them dying is either because

1. they were right on something

2. mafia wanted to kill them to push the stuff they were wrong on

so i am a little suspicious of you if wilgy is town here.

they were also spewed clear but creature seemed like the far more obvious kill to me, that was only a conclusion i came to overnight?

There is no way you would be suspicious of me even if wilgy ended up town. Wilgy looks awful in this situation. Stop downplaying it and acting like lucy couldnt be right on wanting to push him

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:24 pm

obscurity wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:18 pm

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:16 pm Like wilgy HARD defends jack. Are you not taking it to heart cuz you think wilgy wa susut getting snowed by jack or what? It looks really bad imo

i think that's level 1 /shrug

i think wilgy had a read he believed in

i mean, jack did nothing to defend sabi, i don't think mafia's strategy is to hard defend each other

i'll look at him again but i think mafia bussed/distanced/stayed out of it personally (i do think the push on jack was widely town-driven *to start*)

I think with 3 wolves and 1 maf dead and 1 town dead wilgy could absolutely try to power defend partner jack while other wolf flakes or disassociates. I dont want to act like it doesnt or couldnt happen regardless of how 7 layer cheese dip deep it may or may not be. Also looks rough for wilgy that lucy dies with him as her top suspect. We dont have to ignore signs just because they happen to be obvious

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:11 pm Hold up go read all of wilgy posts 2 pages before eod and tell me that is town

Okay so this is a very strong "Wilgy needs to die" stance

@Porscha can you walk me through where/how/why this changed? Quotes of stuff you said previously would suffice because I'm struggling to find anything concrete.

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:04 am

lucy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:59 am

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:54 am Lucy why did you say 1 between me and wilgy

Do you mean difference check or like general poe

poe
also I'll do more in the thread later and iron out some reads before day ends, my main issue here is that anne is alive tbh

Interesting
And that's a good concern to have

>talks about 1 between porscha/wilgy - not a difference check but for POE reasons"

>porscha is VERY curious about it

>lucy, ded"


(i'm ISOing porscha mainly to see if their progression on wilgy tracks but noticed this lucy tidbit).

The way I see it, the Anne ML was a very crucial ML for the mafia team. It both did not need to happen and shouldn't have happened. And I was dumb to ignore that yesterday/not consider if when I wanted Schia. Neon was no part in that ML. NANOOK I can at least explain it to self-pres. Anne was very findable; I wouldn't have spoken out that EOD otherwise, she was obviously towny. You/Porscha, either one of you or both, have a mafia who wanted her gone.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:52 am

obscurity wrote: ↑Wed Oct 19, 2022 9:50 am Voting Neon is also ignoring the whole Anne wagon, which I refuse to believe came about purely.

I think Porscha was a big factor in it, but Wilgy/Porcha/NANOOK always has 1-2.

Anne was mostly treated as town and would be a valuable ML for mafia as I'm sure they debated night killing her.

I really think you put too much weight into the Anne wagon, but I suppose you can't see that without flipping me first.

Going back to this.. I don't get why?

Your green flip would not make me think I should suddenly ignore the Anne wagon. Do you honestly think this wagon could be pure? Because I struggle to see why even you would believe that.