The Syndicate

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Regarding this idea I mentioned before.

Epignosis wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I have a theory.

The more money he will bet on a power, the more likely another player will check him tonight in the hope that they can partner up with the equal color, being that it would be convenient to have that power on your team. Meaning that the money might return back to him in the future. It might be a gamble, but that'll be the name of the game.

I hadn't thought of that.

Epi, I bet you're the one who's managed to construct a few houses. And I believe LC is on your team. Reasons to follow.

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote: No houses or hotels yet, though.

Why do you say that?

Well, because I don't see any on the board, and the people who landed on them didn't get charged those rates. That's a cheap building area, it's interesting that they didn't put up hotels right away.

Long Con wrote: No houses or hotels yet, though.

Turnip Head wrote:Because I asked Boo if I won and he told me somebody else already bid $10. For some reason I thought the bidding was at $6.

>.<

DFaraday wrote:I JUST missed it?!? I'm so sorry, Boo.

Great result though! $2.

LoRab wrote:Heyyyyyyyyy....you......guyssssssss.......

Did I just date myself terribly? Please. Someone else have gotten that.

Nice catch. Need to reread to catch a possible connection.

$5 on electric company because why not.

Boogs wrote:Wow! Awesome! I am weary of bidding for the card, but i suppose i will. $10 on Electric Company

Boo- I dont see the bonus for people voting BWT in the auction? Also, TH bid on something yet I see no powers up for bid. Confused.

Turnip Head wrote:I've been a late voter every lynch, and expect the trend to continue.

I was the first person to agree with Epi's original case on BWT, so there's that.

$10 Electric Company

Boogs wrote:Also, I did not win Electric Company unless Boo didn't send me a pm or somethibg. You guys seem to forget Electric Company voters got extra 200 where i did not. So look again TH, it wasnt me.

boo wrote:1st) Win an auction (Allows the player who uses it to place a bid in an auction and then end the auction immediately in order to win it) - Starts at $250

birdwithteeth11 wrote:RIPIYWG BR! I can't remember much of what you said, so I'll have to go back and re-read you.

$400 on win an auction

Boogs wrote:Wow Epignosis is trying to turn the tables and paint me as bad.

Boogs wrote:Sorry to dissapoint you all. The reasons you listed were lame. I was not buddying with BWT or vice versa.he was trying to follow my lead and get Lc lynched, then when it didnt work out he went defensive.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I would defend myself, but I don't have the time right now. I'm way behind on something for work with training, and I need to spend most of tonight working on it. Unfortunately, all I can do is vote LC and hope I somehow survive (which doesn't look good for me at this point). I do find it funny that a lot of you think I've been participating quite a bit. I chalk this game up there with most of the ones where I'm barely participating due to lack of time to get involved.

juliets wrote:

bea wrote:

LoRab wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Lorab indicted me of being unkind toward her in every context. I have done my due diligence and I can find no place (other than when we were bad together in chat) of her being angry with me. If Lorab can identify where I have been rude or "attacking," I would like the opportunity to make that right.

Barring that, I think Lorab = bad.

You think I'm mad because I'm annoyed? That is just not true. I'm just sick of the way you always say I'm wrong. You're right, I haven't been angry, because I don't usually let my frustration out. But show me one time when I have had an opinion and you haven't told me that I'm wrong.

And why do you think I'm bad, exactly? Is it because I'm fighting back?

Anyway, I have my third 14 hour work day in a row tomorrow and I'm not sure how much I'll be around tomorrow.

Voting Elo. Because of the points I made earlier. And she hasn't defended, or even acknowledged. And I have no reason to think differently from my original thoughts (except for Epi saying that I can't possibly be right).

fwiw - not defending lorab - not trying to damn epi.

but I remember JC asking early of epi about elo's allignment. And she said "he's only been wrong once."

I disagree. He's been wrong at least twice. The first time - they were baddies together in the grim game rox and I hosted
The second time - the time JC rembers (I think?) is in Potter. He was REALLY bad at reading his wife that game. OR she was JUST THAT GOOD at snowing him.

still sooo much more to catsup on...

That's really interesting bea. He told me he had only missed one and your right that one was the Hobbit. Good to know there was a second time. Seems he can't be relied on to read her. (I think she also said in another game it was that once - maybe they forgot about Grimm). Something to work out after the game I suppose.

Turnip Head wrote:Well I meant to outbid Boogs on Electric Company but my dumbass didn't increase the bid to $11. So boogs has Electric Company.

Boogs wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Boogs wrote:According to the rules here are the winners as follows as far as we know:
Day 1:
Hedge wins Windfall
Epignosis wins dice roll
Epignosis wins chance

Day 2:
TH wins Auto protect
TH wins jail card
LC wins auto find and has partner contact
BwT wins auction card



So Again, Epignosis and TH win 2 things. Also, how does Epignosis have so much cash to blow, he must be getting low or have help. And LC auto found a partner potentially last night making him very powerful.
I will vote for either of those 3 if we agree they are getting too strong, which I totally do.

I do appreciate the list. Thanks! I'll add it to my spreadsheet.

Do you have any reasons to think Epig, TH, or LC are bad though? The only one of those who's pinged me at all is Epig (with the stuff between LC and him), and it wasn't enough for me to vote him yet. Or do you just want to vote for them because you feel they are too powerful?

If they're powerful, then fine. But I'm going to stick with voting for people I think are bad for now.

Also, I don't think I won the auction card. Someone outbid me for it pretty close to the last minute. Can't remember who though.

Linki: That actually is a good point about LC. He seemed interested in keys' early idea about actively choosing to not search for partners. And then for him to go and bid/win an auto-find power doesn't tell me if he changed his mind, or is trying to keep others from getting it.

Exactly and thank you for reminding me of his discussion on partners Day 0. Why would he buy it unless he was preventing others of searching? I know he's a good liar in mafia because he fooled me down to the final vote in Monty Python where he kept me tell the end alive. Either way, I think it should be a vote on him today and it seems like a mafia thing to do by going back on his word for searching.
To answer you though on voting today: I do agree we need baddies but it could be a bonus if they are one of the powerful people. I think it's safe to say mafia members would be bidding on these things just like we would to prevent us as well as have powers to stop us later on for doing things. I think LC and Epignosis could be bad, TH I do not think is bad. I only wanted to vote him for being too powerful. So Epignosis or LC today is okay with me, and from the two i would do LC.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Boogs wrote:Splints i am not being shady. I expressed my opinion on LC finding his teammate and possibly getting the third and start bankrupting us. A monopoly this early is just as dangerous as a mafia member. I am suggesting he could be bluffing also and is mafia. Its a win win for me and i stand by my decision regardless what other disagree with me on it. Im Civ and alone, and it makes most sense to cast my vote on LC. Not changing my mind.

So wait....you want LC dead regardless of what his role is? Even if he's not a baddie or LMS right now?

This kind of talk is starting to sound dangerous to me. Very dangerous.

Switches vote to Boogs

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
I'm wary of a Boogs lynchtrain because I'm not sure a baddie Boogs would be that obviously pushing a case that isn't sticking. I think he may genuinely believe what he's saying.

Nonetheless, he is apparently going after LC for a totally different reason than I am. He appears to want him gone because he won the Autofind. My suspicion is due to a very specific chain of events that links Llama and LC's behavior.

I could see that being the case, but I think there is real danger in Boogs pushing the ideas that he's pushing. If we go down the path he's suggesting, then we're just lynching people for deciding to play the game a certain way.

I will most likely switch my vote away from Boogs (I'm wary of him being an easy lynch target as well), but I would like him to read some of the other cases out there. Because right now, I think he has massive tunnel vision.

Epignosis wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:So I'm gone for 24 hours, Epig throws a case together on me, and now it looks like I'm about to be lynched?

I would defend myself, but I don't have the time right now. I'm way behind on something for work with training, and I need to spend most of tonight working on it. Unfortunately, all I can do is vote LC and hope I somehow survive (which doesn't look good for me at this point). I do find it funny that a lot of you think I've been participating quite a bit. I chalk this game up there with most of the ones where I'm barely participating due to lack of time to get involved.

But oh well. I guess it is what it is. All I have time for it to ask for one more day, and to give me a chance to answer for my actions once I have the time to do so.

Epignosis wrote:

Boogs wrote:Epignosis I counted that you had the last vote to win that dice at the end. If not you, then who outbid you that I missed after? Also, BWT is notable on your finding of flopping like a trout. Something to keep in mind on discussion for tomorrow.

Discussion for tomorrow? Why not today?

You don't drive the train.

Remember?

Now is that an astonishing coincidence or is it just me?

Boogs wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:TH, would you mind telling me how you went from this

Turnip Head wrote:I'm potentially looking at a MetalMarsh vote today and wondering how much support there would be behind that.

to this, your very next post (14 hour difference, yes)

Turnip Head wrote: From my reread, I don't think MM is a railroad. I would like to know his top suspicions outside of juliets... I don't think there's any reason to suspect jules at this point. Although she fooled me in Dr Who

The second post sounds fine, but the sincerity doesn't seem to match between the two. What changed your mind? Why were you garnering interest in my lynch when you had no reason to vote for me?

Linki: I agree, their votes had nothing to do with BWT based on the timing, but that doesn't mean the converse is false.

Also, didn't BWT vote for Boogs first?

No. Zeek voted me first, then BWT voted me and specifically said "I will vote Boogs now but will probably change my vote later" to summarize. He agreed with me on LC then tried to turn the tides on me and started saying i could be bad. Then when not enough agreed again, he flopped back to another player which I believe was LC to try to survive the lynch by that point.

I am still looking at LC or Llama as Railroads but i think an inactive player could be the last Utility. With us having replacements we cant vote for, it makes it harder.

Boogs wrote:Also with BWT being a Utility, he was able to learn roles. Do we remember who he may have targeted in discussions? It could make them a possible RailRoad, right?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:So I'm gone for 24 hours, Epig throws a case together on me, and now it looks like I'm about to be lynched?

I would defend myself, but I don't have the time right now. I'm way behind on something for work with training, and I need to spend most of tonight working on it. Unfortunately, all I can do is vote LC and hope I somehow survive (which doesn't look good for me at this point). I do find it funny that a lot of you think I've been participating quite a bit. I chalk this game up there with most of the ones where I'm barely participating due to lack of time to get involved.

But oh well. I guess it is what it is. All I have time for it to ask for one more day, and to give me a chance to answer for my actions once I have the time to do so.

Epignosis wrote:

Boogs wrote:Epignosis I counted that you had the last vote to win that dice at the end. If not you, then who outbid you that I missed after? Also, BWT is notable on your finding of flopping like a trout. Something to keep in mind on discussion for tomorrow.

Discussion for tomorrow? Why not today?

You don't drive the train.

Remember?

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'll give you another example. What incentive did Snow Dog have defending Bass casually the entire time in Doctor Who even though they were teammates? In fact, that entire team casually defended or refused to comment on their teammates all game, but they did it anyway. Epig even said he was trying to play the game as the "most obvious" baddie ever because people always say, "Oh, so and so wouldn't do that, that's too obvious!" But he avoided lynch cycle after cycle.

thellama73 wrote:WIFOM! even though that term is basically meaningless.

Turnip Head wrote:Epi, was there any discussion in your jail cell BTSC? Or did you have to carve your thoughts on the walls

S~V~S wrote:Epi, when I first replaced back in, you seemed to be gunning for LoRab~ now it is BWT. Do you think they are both bad? Sorry if you have already answered this~ I have not read the thread in depth yet, just specific people and some skimming, reacting to the most recent post, etc.

Boogs wrote:Epignosis I counted that you had the last vote to win that dice at the end. If not you, then who outbid you that I missed after? Also, BWT is notable on your finding of flopping like a trout. Something to keep in mind on discussion for tomorrow.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Hey LC, what do you make of all these people vouching for the both of us?

I'm curious about that. I have no idea on either of you at this point, but do you think any of the people vouching for you two could be utilities?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Boogs wrote:According to the rules here are the winners as follows as far as we know:
Day 1:
Hedge wins Windfall
Epignosis wins dice roll
Epignosis wins chance

Day 2:
TH wins Auto protect
TH wins jail card
LC wins auto find and has partner contact
BwT wins auction card



So Again, Epignosis and TH win 2 things. Also, how does Epignosis have so much cash to blow, he must be getting low or have help. And LC auto found a partner potentially last night making him very powerful.
I will vote for either of those 3 if we agree they are getting too strong, which I totally do.

I do appreciate the list. Thanks! I'll add it to my spreadsheet.

Do you have any reasons to think Epig, TH, or LC are bad though? The only one of those who's pinged me at all is Epig (with the stuff between LC and him), and it wasn't enough for me to vote him yet. Or do you just want to vote for them because you feel they are too powerful?

If they're powerful, then fine. But I'm going to stick with voting for people I think are bad for now.

Also, I don't think I won the auction card. Someone outbid me for it pretty close to the last minute. Can't remember who though.

Linki: That actually is a good point about LC. He seemed interested in keys' early idea about actively choosing to not search for partners. And then for him to go and bid/win an auto-find power doesn't tell me if he changed his mind, or is trying to keep others from getting it.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Alright. So after a quick catch-up, I have to go ahead and vote. I will be gone until the lynch ends and preoccupied until then as well. I'm going with Boogs for now, because I feel like his vote for Epig came off as bandwagon-y to me. I know there's not much to go on on Day 1, but it's the only hunch I've gotten so far.

Votes Boogs

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Also, I'm not sure who I'm voting for today. Right now, I'm leaning towards FZ. I didn't think too much of disagreeing with her opinion from before on searching for teammates vs. not searching for teammates. But given her reason for voting Epig on Day 1, and her emotional pleas now, I'm not so sure that may have been all for nothing.

My mind isn't totally made up though. I'm still going to see if anything else develops.

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Linki:

I ain't laughin.

Did you use your Chance card and get free?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Linki:

LoRab wrote:Yeah....why not...Because, Epig: you're not the only player that can take risks and have fun and see what happens.

$501 on Atlantic Avenue

S~V~S wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

LoRab wrote:I'll go with here:

Epignosis wrote:No...that theory cannot be a good one.

Cannot be good means that it has no redeeming qualities. Or possibility to be accurate. Or the possibility that someone could agree with it. That is belittling, not just disagreeing.

Or it could mean I can't utilize a certain letter.

No... it means you CHOOSE not to use a certain letter. You are not under a posting restriction, and saying this is just making excuses, imo, for posting things others may question otherwise. It's why I don't like it when you do things like this. It makes it easy to hide behind it. In my experience with you, it does not mean you are bad, and i don't suspect you for it; nor does it really effect my opinion on you vs Lorab (I am leaning civ/civ at this time pending a deeper reread).

It isn't "CAN'T". It's "WON'T". And that makes a big difference.

But I think invoking your self imposed "curse" as an excuse for being hurtful (and you had to have rolled your eyes when I subbed back in, knowing i would read it that way) is weak. You may choose to ignore my opinion, and similar opinions. I am sure you will do so. But in Mafia we give our opinions, and that is mine.

And that's all I have to say about that (*Grabs box of chocolates, sits on bench*)

LoRab wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

LoRab wrote:I'll go with here:

Epignosis wrote:No...that theory cannot be a good one.

Cannot be good means that it has no redeeming qualities. Or possibility to be accurate. Or the possibility that someone could agree with it. That is belittling, not just disagreeing.

Or it could mean I can't utilize a certain letter.

Well, not that that seems to matter anymore, but you're smart. I know you can come up with a different way to say something, even if avoiding the letter essssssssss.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Boogs wrote:(Hisses at Epignosis) me thinks you like to stir up much trouble and think you are untouchable with all the cash mister Robert one

Aye. I make it rain all up in this piece.

Oh dear.

LoRab wrote:I'll go with here:

Epignosis wrote:No...that theory cannot be a good one.

Cannot be good means that it has no redeeming qualities. Or possibility to be accurate. Or the possibility that someone could agree with it. That is belittling, not just disagreeing.

Boogs wrote:(Hisses at Epignosis) me thinks you like to stir up much trouble and think you are untouchable with all the cash mister Robert one

LoRab wrote:

juliets wrote:I thought Lorab's point was we need to be able to disagree without implying the other is stupid?

Exactly.

Although I think this goes back to being an immigrant to this forum. And why I strongly consider leaving it every game. The friendly tone that exists on the other forums where I've played just isn't that same here. Attacks often seem personal and disagreements aren't done in a way that are disagreeing with the ideas. I think that my style just doesn't fit in here. but I like a lot of my friends here and I don't have anywhere else to play right now, so I keep sticking around. Maybe I should just learn my lesson and either accept that it's ok to tell others that they can't possibly be right and not understand that doing so is different from disagreeing with someone.

LoRab wrote:Although I think this goes back to being an immigrant to this forum. And why I strongly consider leaving it every game.

Hedgeowl wrote:I think it might be time to take this conversation on tone to PM and out of the game. Even though it is so far a very unheated and more thoughtful discussion. I will say that in my experience this forum is actually strict about offense and rudeness in games and a lot goes on behind scenes to deal with these issues as they come up. I think many of us can remember specific examples of this. In my experience both Epi and Lorab can be forceful players with strong opinions. I think you both bring a lot to any game even if we play differently and enjoy playing with you both.

LoRab wrote:

Epignosis wrote:LoRab, you don't like me or my method. I get it. And I apologized for our time before, even if I had my own grievance about you at the time.

However, I am not the only one here who found your theory wanting. And I will not change my wording to make people feel a certain way. I don't play Mafia to make people feel good.

I don't have a problem with your method. I don't know you at all personally, so I don't like you or not like you. It's a tone thing that I don't like, specifically in mafia posts.

And, as I said, I did not and do not have a problem that you disagreed. Nor that people don't read into things the same as me or not like my theory. I am all about disagreement. It's just that your tone makes me not want to engage in back and forth with you over theories. That was really all my initial post about this was trying to say.

You don't have to change the way you say things in order to make people feel anything. But that doesn't mean that those people need to engage with you.

juliets wrote:I thought it was a rule that it cut off 10 minutes before the lynch end.

boo: isn't there a rule that the bidding for the powers cuts off 10 minutes before the lynch end? If not, when does it cut off?

And therein, Epi, lies the problem.

Elohcin wrote:now I must go check to make sure it all got in the toilet HAHA j/k

Elohcin wrote:Seriously though, how do you know not to search for me. Do you have info on my role somehow?

Elohcin wrote:I have an idea. Epi, what do you think of me this game? Since everyone always seems to believe that you can read me so well.

LoRab wrote:

juliets wrote:I thought Lorab's point was we need to be able to disagree without implying the other is stupid?

Exactly.

Although I think this goes back to being an immigrant to this forum. And why I strongly consider leaving it every game. The friendly tone that exists on the other forums where I've played just isn't that same here. Attacks often seem personal and disagreements aren't done in a way that are disagreeing with the ideas. I think that my style just doesn't fit in here. but I like a lot of my friends here and I don't have anywhere else to play right now, so I keep sticking around. Maybe I should just learn my lesson and either accept that it's ok to tell others that they can't possibly be right and not understand that doing so is different from disagreeing with someone.

And that one can respect that another player, with a whole crap ton of experience, who happens to think differently than you, might just be right sometimes. Especially when you've seen it happen (and related to ideas that you called stupid).

Epignosis wrote:Lorab, I apologize if my direct approach in your prior experience with me had been off-putting. I mean that. However, you're rather direct too.

LoRab wrote: But show me one time when I have had an opinion and you haven't told me that I'm wrong.

All of here that I can tell, for one. I can pull up more if need be.

I'm not going to reread that whole game, and I don't remember specifically. I was perhaps exaggerating. And it's not so much your direct approach but the way you say things. And whatever. I'm not going to change you. You don't seem to have an interest in changing. I'll just ignore it. I just don't do well with people who are insulting to my intelligence and insight--and you often have insulted both through your reaction to my ideas.

And I'm not even sure how expressing anger after being told that an idea that I had can't possibly be correct (when, it can actually be correct...just like a night poll, in the game when we had BTSC, resulting in a protection that led to a failed kill was an idea you thought couldn't possibly be true--and was, in the end, true).

My brain works differently than yours. It doesn't make me smarter. It doesn't make you smarter. We are probably of equal intelligence--you seem to be about as smart as I am, at least. We just think through things entirely differently. It would be nice to appreciate the diversity instead of attacking it.

LoRab wrote:And I'm not saying not to disagree. I'm saying that you can disagree by saying, "I don't see it that way," or "I don't think that's what's happening." You don't have to tell the other person that they have come up with a ridiculous idea that can't possibly be right.

LoRab wrote: But show me one time when I have had an opinion and you haven't told me that I'm wrong.

LoRab wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

LoRab wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

LoRab wrote:Following through on my thoughts in the post-lynch post. Didn't want to make overt accusations at the start of night. I think that elohcin is Made's teammate. Even if they didn't have BTSC yet, Made had clearly made a slip, and elo was trying to prevent the lynch on the chance that they would, indeed, gain BTSC and be teammates.

That plan would be foolhardy, even among people who already could talk privately with one another.

LoRab wrote:So, I think Elo was trying to deflect attention away from Made and towards others, and stopping the growing opinion against Made.

By diverting attention to JC and BR, it seems she was trying to drop seeds of suspicion on them, hoping for a second bandwagon, and not have to actually defend Made. Which, by the way, she doesn't mention the slip at all in her post--which is odd. And to accuse JC of bandwagoning--when, in fact, there was clear reason to vote for Made, just doesn't make sense.

She makes a case out of 2 players who have played a lot together and have similar thought processes often, asking for each other's opinions early in the game. That doesn't seem odd to me at all. It seems even less reason for suspicion.

Right now, Elo is my biggest suspicion.

Do you really think that at that point a wave of people were going to go, "Aha, Eloh! Great point! I'm voting JC!" Lorab?

Eloh voted JC after Made took a heptavote. No...that theory cannot be a good one.

Shocking. You and I don't agree on something. And because you disagree and think about games differently, my theory is bad. I refuse to engage with you unless you learn how to disagree and not say or imply the other person that you disagree with is being ridiculous.

Overreaction. Bingo.

No. I'm just gotten to the point where I don't want to deal with your insulting attitude that you have towards me in every game we've been in. Including when we had BTSC. I'm just done responding to you and getting into it with you about my opinions. I'll still respond to personal attacks, though.