The Syndicate

I'm off. Good luck. Looks like you'll need it.

112 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:05 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:02 pm I'm actually not going to be around much till EoD. Let's just stick on Epi please and not lose our minds.
'Corrupt Union Official'

hmmm

"The Mark."

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:48 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:45 pm If you want me that bad, have me.
OMG just fucking ISO me. What are you doing?

I'm letting you get your way Mac. Isn't it nice to get your way?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:48 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:45 pm If you want me that bad, have me.
OMG just fucking ISO me. What are you doing?

No.

[VOTE: TurstworthyLiberal] aubergine

If you want me that bad, have me.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:40 pm "This is where I fell short. I tabled the MacDougall analysis expecting to come back and see just how many people at this point were calling Dragomir a civilian, because at that point I couldn't recall many. It looked like a way to validate the notion that Dragomir was a civilian whilst casting suspicion on those calling him good, which of course would be an evil strategy.

Unfortunately, by the time I remembered to go back, the threads had vanished, and this is the one analysis I did not complete.

Anyway, MacDougall voted for me, left his vote on me, and so he can go eat a bag of delicious iced caramel kremes."

This was Epi's initial ISO of me when he did giant wallposts on almost everyone else.

He has been back in the main thread for days, has two more scumflips and has been casing me ... but hasn't bothered to finish this unfinished ISO?

Tl;dr I don't believe Epi could have ever had a scumread on me if he has read my ISO since he came back. The question is whether he has bothered to. I think it would be weirdly out of character for him not to have.

My opinion of you right now has everything to do with your bullshit you've maintained over the last several Days. You voted Hyena instead of Elephant. You voted Hyena instead of iaafr and there is nothing in your post history that suggests you ever suspected Hyena. Now you're voting me.

So yes, I suspect you.

iaafr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:36 pm sure [VOTE: epignosis] aubergine

if epi dies I promise to play for real next phase regardless of his flip

Ah damn.

Now I've got the double vote on me.

I wish I could find the last time MacDougall had me pegged from Day 1. His reaction when I was lynched was gold.

It astounds me that there are three people right now who are saying they'd rather head into an endgame scenario with iaafr than me. Good luck with that.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:17 pm I just reread my ISO and it makes me want to vote for Epi again. He's spent all this time belabouring interaction analysis and has kept suspecting me while my day 1 interactions basically clear me. I don't believe he hasn't read them. I believe he has and has intentionally not mentioned them.

Oh, I got to everybody but you.

(And Dom)

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:04 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:53 pm sprityo, I'm trying to understand your breakdown. However, before I dig deeper into it, I want to ask something.

Let's assume that Mafia were required to keep one player in each stage because yknow it's Inception
How confident are you in that assumption and why?
My basic understanding of inception is they have someone awake at each level of the dream to pull others back out. I would assume the hosts have something similar in play to give the most authentic experience

Ah yes. I think I recall that aspect of the film.

sprityo, I'm trying to understand your breakdown. However, before I dig deeper into it, I want to ask something.

Let's assume that Mafia were required to keep one player in each stage because yknow it's Inception

How confident are you in that assumption and why?

If Evenstar checked nutella Night 1, she could safely claim iaafr was the double voter and there would be no one who could refute the claim.

"now everybody shut up and investigate other people" is what Evenstar had to say about iaafr.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:57 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:53 pm
Evenstar wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:44 pm oh for crying out loud

okay, I'm putting a stop to this

Rabbit's hold-off on voting makes him extremely likely the doublevoter, which makes him mech town

now everybody shut up and investigate other people
tbh, i'm not following this logic, but this theory enough isnt enough to convince me to not have rabbit in my potential voting pool
if his double-vote makes the difference to lynch a scum he is NK'd every time guaranteed

if his double-vote is noticed by scum he is NK'd >50% of the time

concrete evidence of its existence makes him damn close to an IC due to the fact that "Doublevoter" is in the list of existing town roles

he just didn't bet on all the votes after D1 being anonymous and therefore being unable to mech clear himself

it fits entirely with his reckless play

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:51 pm Epi too since I think he’s just waved me under the rug on it

That wasn't my intention. I've been working off and on today and also getting ready for tonight's first rehearsal (a reminder that I won't be available when the votes lock).

I've mostly just been yelling at people not to vote for me.

I'll look at what you've got, but I'll have to leave soon.

112 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:10 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:06 pm That's my current opinion.
what are your thoughts re: wagonomics of d1 votes quoted above?

If I'm understanding your question correctly, the biggest takeaway from here is that Dragomir's team tried to rescue him even though he was around to rescue himself.

I had to look back to see why Jack voted you Day 1.

This seems a little too on the nose:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:00 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:55 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:49 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:45 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:39 am and I'm never lynching 112 day 1 (probably just never tbh).

How'd that work out for you last time bucko?
I’m reporting this post for unnecessary roughness.
Oh he knows I mean it lovingly and with all due admiration.
But I do have some serious concerns about 112's play here feeling similar to wc1. Could be that they just have a style consistent across alignments (and I didn't watch the finale so don't have that data) but I'm wary of trusting them due to past experience.
I could easily sheep your 112 read after you crushed their effigy from specchat during WC1.

I could also easy stay on Eva and see who jumps.

I still don't know why Jack voted 112 Day 1 even looking at the posts.

Jack said this:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:49 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:04 pm The roleplaying character thing pings me hard for reasons being that there's a manipulative edge to it. I only see one perspective to why someone would do this is the scum perspective. Role-play your character in order to make it more believable if you got to claim it. Get ppl in the mindset that your character is this person thus clouding them from looking too much into the actual claim.

There's no town perspective to it imo. Why should town bother themselves with roleplaying their character?
Maybe if they really like their character.

I spent all of UPick calling people mongrels.

This is mostly me playing devil’s advocate tho. I don’t have a firm read on 112.

Then there's the first post I mentioned above, and then:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:09 pm [VOTE: 112] aubergine

I was gonna post a Yao Ming face but you know, fuck him and fuck the Rockets. Sorry not sorry your enabling genocide is hurting your bottom line.

So while I don't really know why Jack voted 112, I can see that it was a very early vote (similar to mine). He apparently never moved the vote, so I couldn't say he was voting to rescue a teammate.

I'll look more closely among the Dragomir voters next.

That's my current opinion.

That would be against the rules, I'm afraid.

112 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:32 pm
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:18 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:05 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:20 am @Syndicaters - is Epi's reaction here normal for his meta? I mean his whole 'civilians are fucked, there's no one here, you guys are playing the game wrong, just rememebr this after I die' diatribe. Because normally when I see that sort of reaction to someone's impending lynch, they're mafia trying to fake emotion they feel looks genuine.
"Hello. I'm Master Radishes. I'm full of shit and not a civilian but trying to influence the outcome of this in my own best interest."
"Hello. I'm Epignosis. I can't argue against my accuser using logic and reasoning because I do indeed have connections to every single dead scum, so I'm going to attack his credibility instead."

You know you're losing an argument when...?
big gottem

I don't suppose it would be too much to ask you to...you know...do something.

Unless you're attending another cat funeral, then pardon me.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:09 pm
4. Sorry, MU Champs joke, since I know a few people here were playing/watching. (112 was mafia and made up a dead cat to wave away any questions about erratic or slanky play. The cat's name was Benson, which is where 'Benson' from this game, a friend of 112, got his name.)

And see, that's shit I would never ever do. It's bad sportsmanship. If you believe I am Evenstar's teammate, then you believe I had a hand in orchestrating some really unpleasant shit that people got warnings for.

I am above that.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:11 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:05 pm Matter of fact, it was Evenstar (mafia) who pushed the idea that the godfather was useless and used that idea against me.
Actually, I believe she initially used that idea against me, since that was right after I started casing her for her vote. I don't remember if she used it against you, but it's not like she could backtrack after using it against me.

(Also, I thought it was Rabbit, but they were basically the same person in D2, so I could be wrong and am not going to waste time checking.)

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:45 pm In the Day 2 thread, Evenstar effectively shit on my interrogation of iaafr.

This also indicates they are partners:

Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:53 pm
iaafr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:47 pm investigatives can't claim in this setup!!!!! the biggest potential payoff of a godfather is a single slot hard defending for no apparent reason!!!
*blinks*

that

is significant

and says that 112 is almost certainly town

scum are not going to hard defend their godfather under these kinds of harsh anti-claim conditions

aight who pushed the idea of the Godfather first they scum
This is an over-the-top reaction if I've ever seen one.

I was the one who commented on the godfather being the most important mafia role.

I got shit for it from both of these two.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:17 pm
iaafr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:55 pm radishes, who has been foremost pushing you on that logic

lmao
It's a good thing I checked rather than accepting this because it ain't, it's Epignosis.

Matter of fact, it was Evenstar (mafia) who pushed the idea that the godfather was useless and used that idea against me.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:57 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:22 am Since you are voting me, I must ask you if you believe all four of these things:

1. I stood by while allowing my godfather (arguably the most important mafia role when a cop is in play) to go down Day 1. Note that I voted 112 early and made no effort to drum up support for a 112 lynch, made no effort to get someone else lynched, and made no effort to get myself lynched in the godfather's stead.

2. I went through everyone's interactions with Dragomir, only to have my teammate shit on them instead of using them to guide civilian lynches. Rather than use my contributions to guide civilians into making mistakes, Evenstar dismissed them and instead used that effort as the basis for her trying to get me lynched.

3. Evenstar, who voted 112 instead of Dragomir and who voted Hyena instead of Elephant, was perfectly okay with lynching me and actively pushed for that to happen throughout the phase.

4. I went out of my way Day 2 to make Dom upset.
1. We've already established the Godfather is not a particularly powerful role in a 30-player non-claim game. You're basically asking me to 'note' that you sat on a vote and did nothing about it. Your actions here do not prove you scum nor town. If anything, the fact you didn't show any movement at EoD1 despite your lack of commitment about 112 shows a lack of concern. You seemed content with where you were voting, but generally speaking townies are quite concerned about 'getting it right' during a frenetic EoD, leading to visible doubt.

2. Scum!Epi put in a lot of busywork and scum!Eva distanced herself. What's hard to believe about this?

3. These events happened in different contexts. Eva was playing with an agenda, and her agenda in one Day phase was not the same as her agenda in another Day phase. E.g. she pushed to save Elephant as time ticked down and his lynch was a real possibility, and not before that. At no point were you a particularly serious wagon in the final minutes of a phase end, barring D1 (where she, in fact, implicitly defended you).

4. Can't comment on this. But, I mean, some players make up dead cats to gain towncred. It's pretty NAI to be honest.

So, yes, I can believe all those things without stretching my imagination very hard.

1. "We" haven't established anything. I don't agree with that assessment whatsoever.

2. It's shit play. If It were bad I would expect my team to leverage my work.

3. And then she turned around right after that and went after me for the stupidest reasons imaginable. Come on.

4. I don't know what dead cats have to do with anything.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:48 am You are trying to get value from your List of Four, Epi, and I should let you know that it isn't working on me. Here is why:

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:22 am Since you are voting me, I must ask you if you believe all four of these things:

1. I stood by while allowing my godfather (arguably the most important mafia role when a cop is in play) to go down Day 1. Note that I voted 112 early and made no effort to drum up support for a 112 lynch, made no effort to get someone else lynched, and made no effort to get myself lynched in the godfather's stead.

Why is it so impossible to believe that you "allowed" Drago to be lynched, when there are five players in the game who did exactly that? What is it about you that makes this point valid, some quality that no other player in the game has? Are you the lynchmaster, and get to decide on your own who gets lynched each day? If you were Drago's teammate, you would go all-out on a counterwagon on Day 1? Don't you think that's something that even the most rudimentary Mafia player would find suspicious after a few days of info came around, making it a foolish move for an experienced Mafia player?

2. I went through everyone's interactions with Dragomir, only to have my teammate shit on them instead of using them to guide civilian lynches. Rather than use my contributions to guide civilians into making mistakes, Evenstar dismissed them and instead used that effort as the basis for her trying to get me lynched.

Nothing about that says it couldn't be distancing. There are other memorable instances between you two that could easily be the same kind of antagonistic distancing she did with Dragomir. That is obvious precedent within this same game, like insta-meta. Eva dismisses your reads and then dies, making your reads look even better because a wolf dismissed them.

3. Evenstar, who voted 112 instead of Dragomir and who voted Hyena instead of Elephant, was perfectly okay with lynching me and actively pushed for that to happen throughout the phase.
...a phase where she ended up voting for Hyena, and not you.

4. I went out of my way Day 2 to make Dom upset.
I know this is your coup de grâce point, and it's impossible for me to speak to because I haven't read it.

Whatever.

Lynch me then. I'm too busy to bother with this bullshit anyway.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:36 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:26 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:03 am Hey Epi, sorry for not being here earlier. The wife and I went to a friend's house for the evening and played Cards Against Humanity. Why are you freaking out over a couple of votes with a day left until lynch time?

People talking about the MR-Indy-Mal-poisoning thing made me think... why should it be assumed it was a 3P action? As someone pointed out to me earlier, the roles list in the first post is incomplete, so maybe it was a town poisoner.

I wonder if anyone else is going to die like that? I also wonder when Eva knew she was going to die? And why did she leave the Scum Team a legacy post, and not just say what she needs to say in BTSC? Is there a deception within her words intended for some deep-wolfing endgame? Does anyone even remember anything she said? All good questions.

I'll get you a fresh review on Mac and iaafr. For now I'm going to [VOTE: juliets] aubergine because she didn't look good from the Elephant interactions, and a couple of other things.
I think that's a very poor choice at this stage. How do you reconcile your vote with juliets' Day 1 play?
What is it about her Day 1 play? You've had juliets as lock town since Day 1?

Obviously not (I reconsidered as late as this Day phase).

I already commented on juliets' Day 1.

Since you are voting me, I must ask you if you believe all four of these things:

1. I stood by while allowing my godfather (arguably the most important mafia role when a cop is in play) to go down Day 1. Note that I voted 112 early and made no effort to drum up support for a 112 lynch, made no effort to get someone else lynched, and made no effort to get myself lynched in the godfather's stead.

2. I went through everyone's interactions with Dragomir, only to have my teammate shit on them instead of using them to guide civilian lynches. Rather than use my contributions to guide civilians into making mistakes, Evenstar dismissed them and instead used that effort as the basis for her trying to get me lynched.

3. Evenstar, who voted 112 instead of Dragomir and who voted Hyena instead of Elephant, was perfectly okay with lynching me and actively pushed for that to happen throughout the phase.

4. I went out of my way Day 2 to make Dom upset.

I know juliets better than I know Evenstar. I don't think juliets is bad.

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:20 am @Syndicaters - is Epi's reaction here normal for his meta? I mean his whole 'civilians are fucked, there's no one here, you guys are playing the game wrong, just rememebr this after I die' diatribe. Because normally when I see that sort of reaction to someone's impending lynch, they're mafia trying to fake emotion they feel looks genuine.

Also, see sprityo's signature.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:03 am Hey Epi, sorry for not being here earlier. The wife and I went to a friend's house for the evening and played Cards Against Humanity. Why are you freaking out over a couple of votes with a day left until lynch time?

People talking about the MR-Indy-Mal-poisoning thing made me think... why should it be assumed it was a 3P action? As someone pointed out to me earlier, the roles list in the first post is incomplete, so maybe it was a town poisoner.

I wonder if anyone else is going to die like that? I also wonder when Eva knew she was going to die? And why did she leave the Scum Team a legacy post, and not just say what she needs to say in BTSC? Is there a deception within her words intended for some deep-wolfing endgame? Does anyone even remember anything she said? All good questions.

I'll get you a fresh review on Mac and iaafr. For now I'm going to [VOTE: juliets] aubergine because she didn't look good from the Elephant interactions, and a couple of other things.

I think that's a very poor choice at this stage. How do you reconcile your vote with juliets' Day 1 play?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:20 am @Syndicaters - is Epi's reaction here normal for his meta? I mean his whole 'civilians are fucked, there's no one here, you guys are playing the game wrong, just rememebr this after I die' diatribe. Because normally when I see that sort of reaction to someone's impending lynch, they're mafia trying to fake emotion they feel looks genuine.

"Hello. I'm Master Radishes. I'm full of shit and not a civilian but trying to influence the outcome of this in my own best interest."

I suppose you're not interested in talking.

Trustworthy Liberal, do you have anything to say? Am I Dom's partner? Hmm?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:53 pm Btw I got my laptop back so my gif game is gonna improve.

Oh goody.

Thank you Pawn.

sprityo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:43 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:40 pm sprityo and iaafr are available to jump on me if need be.
As much as i’d love to, I have bigger fish to fry

Good to hear.

At least cast a vote, Pawn.

I'd have ten pages done in a couple of hours. Pff.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:29 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:49 pm Listen, I haven't been lynched as a civilian in over a year. Lazy ass Mac (who protected iaafr to lynch Hyena yesterday) is hell bent on ending that streak. He also isn't helping to figure out who the mafia is (if I'm bad, I have teammates y'all).

MacDougall sucks. The end.
I will help you lynch one more player not named MacDougall and if it's a civ I will spam the thread with bullshit tomorrow unless everyone votes you.

That's very kind of you.

Look at this: Others will do anything they can to keep iaafr from dying. Look at MacDougall. Look at Radishes. Look at 112.

iaafr is mafia.

I'm just being strongarmed into death because the civilians aren't showing up. That's...amazing.

[VOTE: iaafr] aubergine again.

No way I'm letting that outlive me.

I will try to make a strategic bathroom break to change my vote, but I can't garauntee anything is what I'm saying.

Listen.

I am not in a place to save myself. The mafia will rush in and bury me. I will be playing music. Please find a way to orchestrate a better lynch.

Listen, I haven't been lynched as a civilian in over a year. Lazy ass Mac (who protected iaafr to lynch Hyena yesterday) is hell bent on ending that streak. He also isn't helping to figure out who the mafia is (if I'm bad, I have teammates y'all).

MacDougall sucks. The end.

Nobody is talking. Pawn is absent. 112 pulls that. iaafr is absent. Lambadelta has done fuck all. Radishes is garbage. Liberal has apparently been reading but not talking.

Civilians are fucked at this rate.

[VOTE: 112] aubergine

sprityo and iaafr are available to jump on me if need be.

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