The Syndicate

G-Man wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:54 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:34 pm You're a good guy G.

My advice to you is never trick your players. When you host, you should always be the reliable anchor. This was a trick.

I own that it was a trick and that this sort of thing should be considered out of bounds by a host. Curiosity is what drove me to see it through, not malice. I hate to lose face as a host for it, but it is indefensible. If my reputation is tarnished, then I only have myself to blame for that.

We'll see if this ruse hurts my ability to fill up future games. I will be sure to state in my gameplay section, though, that all of my future games include an informed minority clashing with an uninformed majority. That way, no one ever has to worry or speculate about the possibility of a repeat.

And as I said before- if the admins believe that they need to make a punitive example out of me, I won't object. Twelve people can't get back the time they invested into this game, and that's on me. Recourse may well be in order.

G-Man wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:18 pm I think that lack of participation held this game back from making the truth more apparent. Grogu never used his bodyguard role. Posion failed to use her tracking power nights 2, 4, and 5. I put a watcher, a tracker, a bodyguard, a doctor, a blocker, and a copycat all in the same game. I saw plenty of opportunities for powers to intersect and start to confirm more and more players as civvie. Due to only about half of the powers being used on any given night, that intersection never really flourished.

As far as criticism goes, I'm going to bite my tongue on a few comments that I thought went too far. I pulled this stunt, and it's well outside the norm even for me. I think criticism is warranted. If the admins feel that this sort of thing crosses any red lines and some form of punishment is necessary to make an example of it/me in order to discourage this kind of thing from being done again/more often, then I won't object.

In my mind, this was every bit as mentally and emotionally exhausting for me as it was for many of you. It was a rollercoaster ride of ups and downs. When a few of you mentioned the idea, I was pumping my fist like a father who watches his kid score their first goal/touchdown/whatever. When you turned away from the answers, I had to fight the urge to make the flavor blatantly obvious. I wanted you to get there yourself, but boy was I tempted to give you a few extra nudges. When words came out trashing the notion of what the game really was, I internalized it and it sucked quite a bit.

Every game, I care about every single one of my players. I have a pretty extensive history with some of the folks who played this game, so the talk of disappointment and wasted time hits me hard, justified as it may be.

I knew this would be a tough process for @JaggedJimmyJay. His methodical approach to the game cuts out most flights of fancy and gets down to brass tacks. I'm sorry that brass tacks were in short supply this game.

Seeing the supposedly-retired @Epignosis join in gave me pause. I know how busy his life is, and I was very mindful each day of how much effort he was sinking into a smoke-and-mirror show.

I think most of all, I felt the worst for @fingersplints because this was her first game in several years. I hope that she views it more as a scrimmage to help her shake off any rust than me being a troll.

@Enrique- kudos to you to seeing the light and embracing it. You didn't waver on it once it made sense to you. I built too much of an uphill battle for you it seems.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:32 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:28 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:23 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:15 pm "What if everyone is town" is a funny idea but annoying and a waste of time jn practice

The worst thing about this is that I'll have to hear "everyone is so dang townie! what if everyone is town and there's no mafia and the host is jerking our chain?" which I hear in every closed setup role madness game I play and shoot down every time because it's silly.

Except now it actually happened so people will take it seriously lol

Twice at the same time, even!

Well, GOC didn't have a mafia in the traditional sense but there was a hostile 3P making nightkills that town had to try and stop so it was at least a proper game. This is just weird.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:27 pm So now we have a game explicitly declared bastard that contained no bastard elements and a game marketed as simply "mafia" that contains no mafia

I suggest we create a Game of Champions next year where only players who have not won a game on the Syndicate in 2021 get to sign up.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:16 pm Truth be told I’m not mad. @G-Man, I’m not mad.

I came to terms with the fact that 1) this was possible and 2) I would never be comfortable actually trying it so whatever days ago.

We move on.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:11 pm As in: the result of this game is irrelevant and I am over it.

Enrique wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:10 pm I will not let ANY OF YOU forget what happened tonight ahahhahaha

Enrique wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:08 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:04 pm

Enrique wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:01 pm The game's about to end... don't know if I'm more relieved or disappointed.

If you are a civilian you are taking the most irrational approach I've witnessed. I would have voted Poison out or KZA out today. You weren't willing to work with that. Oh well.

Yeah, nothing really played out how I wanted. Sorry for this one civs but at least we all sucked together for most of the game

Enrique wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:01 pm The game's about to end... don't know if I'm more relieved or disappointed.

KZA wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:31 pm I mean I literally don't think factional nightkills exist at this point but I also don't want the 24 hours of absolutely nothing happening

So yeah even if it makes me a bad civilian I'll probably move late despite townreading Enrique since I'm as out of ideas as everyone else here

and yeah I know you can't respond I'm just talking to myself and hoping Enrique or Poison show up and say something that outs them as Mafia

KZA wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:31 pmI'm ISOing JJJ lol

KZA wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:28 pm I'm using no eviction as a placeholder while I figure out exactly what I want to do

I never considered Enrique mafia and I don't think "he might double vote us in FX and win" a really strong reason for me to vote him

I'm definitely not using my power to stop anyone but myself from being evicted so don't worry about that

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:24 pm Poison hasn't posted in over two cycles. This is probably going to end up a tie and a non-chop anyway.

Poison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:26 am I HATE POST LIMITS.
So far I like Chard and Scirrusu ig
[8]

Poison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:01 pm Wait I don't trust the people voting epi. I don't wanna lynch jay.

Poison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:01 pm

Enrique wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:01 pm lets pynch annook

Very motivating.

Poison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:03 pm Wait I can't vote. Jwoaoalqonsnamama

Poison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:53 am Hi hello I'm alive. I'll catch up I'm sorry too much stuff kinda giving me concussion. At first I'll just reply to the mentions.

Scirrus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:45 pm The quickness of Grogu wagon is noted. Is it relevant? Who knows

@Poison would really like you to get in here and share your thoughts on stuff.

I will do that now, I need to read the thread though.

Scirrus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:13 pm Town is being lead astray here

Who hasn't claimed? I think everyone who hasn't claimed should claim now.

@Enrique @Poison @reywaS @Grogu

I think these are the nonclaims, apologies if you claimed and i haven't seen it

Oh I can claim. I am the tracker. I tracked JJJ night 1 bot I got no results from reways.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:20 pm Hell I hate my role so fuck it. Dunno if it's relevant to anything, but I'm a Hider. I "hide behind" a target, and the first action targeting me his my "hide buddy" instead. I hid behind reywaS. I threw a bit of a hail mary with "I have the strongest role" hoping to get shot so it'd take out rey.

I am obligated to use my role and consider it borderline crippled/anti-civilian. It's possible to use it effectively, but not very likely. If folks want to discuss how I use that, sure -- just be mindful of what the mafia will do with that dialogue.

Poison wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:36 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:13 pm One can only laugh. Bye Marmot.

If anyone targeted me last night, you may have hit reywaS instead. Lemme know.

I'm at work right now. I'll think shit over and post sporadically. That flip kinda breaks things open.

yes, JJJ speaking the truth. I need to read the thread , I'll play at night.

Poison wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:38 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:36 pm I see it now. I just overlooked the post. Any Night 2 targets @Poison?

No I when I came back it was already day phase, could not send in the action.

Poison wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:03 am kza didnt use any abilities last night

Enrique wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:46 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:45 pm

Enrique wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:43 pm Okay. I don't want you to lynch anybody else anyway. Forget them, make the next round me vs No Eviction and hopefully at least one or two other players will see that I'm right and that my argument is reinforced by the story posts and our knowledge of the revealed and claimed roles. Again - the worst case scenario is that NOTHING HAPPENS and you all can just do everything you want to do one day later. Every time there's no night kill and the yeeted player flips civilian should just convince you more. There's nothing happening at night, it's all useless.

If I lose, who wins?

I don't know man, I didn't design this game, I'm just paying enough attention to know we're losing.

Enrique wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:43 pm Okay. I don't want you to lynch anybody else anyway. Forget them, make the next round me vs No Eviction and hopefully at least one or two other players will see that I'm right and that my argument is reinforced by the story posts and our knowledge of the revealed and claimed roles. Again - the worst case scenario is that NOTHING HAPPENS and you all can just do everything you want to do one day later. Every time there's no night kill and the yeeted player flips civilian should just convince you more. There's nothing happening at night, it's all useless.

Enrique wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:30 pm To stop yeeting each other / diving head first into a town loss as we've been doing all game. Like I said, lynch me the second nothing happens. At best we crack the game open, at worst literally nothing (good or bad) happens.

Enrique wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:26 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:21 pm

Enrique wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:18 pm There isn't a mafia. I welcome you to lynch me instantly if they kill tonight, or if we vote No-evict and nothing happens (the town doesn't lose anything in either situation). Moreover, if you really think there is a mafia, then lynching me just because of my double-vote is a terrible decision. Vote for me because you think I'm mafia, otherwise you're just admitting to throwing the game. Lynching another civ because his role would be threatening if his alignment was different is just another path to loss.

It's not game throwing if it's a mathematical necessity.

It occurs to me now though that I might have screwed at least one pooch in yesterday's Pepe Silvia solving nonsense: mafia Enrique on a two-player team poses the same threat tomorrow that he would have yesterday on a three-player team. So if there's a kill and we lose, go ahead and blame me gang. I won't be bothered given the bizarre nature of this game, but blame me anyway if you wish.

I have a SNEAKING SUSPICION that there won't be a kill anyway.

It's not a "mathematical necessity" if I'm a civ. You lose the game when you kill civilians, not when a civvie role could be used for evil. Which, anyway, I insist can't be a fucking problem because I won't move my vote from No Eviction. My role can't manipulate the results in any way if we all just vote for No Eviction. What are the dangers of trying?

Enrique wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:18 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:46 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:37 pm

Shot Across the Bow

"Watch it, Ferraro, or you'll be next."

That comment stuck with Jacob all the way home and all the way through the contents of a bottle of finely-aged bourbon.

He had pulled what most considered a stunt- trying to get homeowners to vote with him for no eviction. It wouldn't solve the problem of ferreting out the nefarious, so his efforts were met with contempt from both sides. Finally- something Phase 1 and Phase 3 could agree on!

Normally, he would have dismissed such a petulant threat. These days though? He had no reason to underestimate anyone anymore.

Jacob was left with difficult decision: should he start looking for a realtor to sell his house to escape this hot mess, or should he start looking for a lawyer to defend him against eviction?

In the end, he dismissed the binary choice altogether and ordered more bourbon online instead.

The flavor beckons us onward toward Troll Tower. It's almost like Enrique is Jacob Ferraro.

Jacob Ferraro isn't my role but I don't think our agreement is a coincidence. You've read all the host posts and written about them - did you forget that in previous posts, such as the start of day 3, the start of night 3, and the start of day 4 Jacob Ferraro, the protagonist of the story, was already trying to figure out a way to stop the evictions? This didn't come out of nowhere. It's an intentional part of the story and we're supposed to be picking up on it.

There isn't a mafia. I welcome you to lynch me instantly if they kill tonight, or if we vote No-evict and nothing happens (the town doesn't lose anything in either situation). Moreover, if you really think there is a mafia, then lynching me just because of my double-vote is a terrible decision. Vote for me because you think I'm mafia, otherwise you're just admitting to throwing the game. Lynching another civ because his role would be threatening if his alignment was different is just another path to loss.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:58 pm Also if it wasn't immediately apparent, Scirrus flipping civilian confirms that zero factional kills have occurred in this Mafia game.

Three role blocked players have been eliminated and flipped civilian. A protected player was eliminated and flipped civilian. It's becoming difficult to construct a game theory for this thing that makes any sense with respect to design balance, realistic strategic decisions by human beings, or even the behaviors of players in this game thread.

I may be one cycle away from calling the entire experience counterfeit. I am open to arguments that I should be open to doing so now or be open never.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:50 pm Anyway assuming there's a Day 6 with another non-kill I think I'll be voting Enrique. It's nothing personal or even "inspired" -- it's just the double vote. That much is affirmed, or at least a tiebreaker something something. Can't have that in a Final 3. KZA's role could also present numbers issues. I'll think about all that later.

It feels rather ridiculous mounting strategy as though this game is at all ordinary, but what else are we to do. I don't find anyone in the game suspicious at face value. Poison might be if I reach.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:02 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:01 pm

KZA wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:57 pmplease flip scum

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:00 pm Please flip something different

Eh?

Just pointlessly appealing to the clouds for the game to move forward in a positive way finally.

KZA wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:57 pmplease flip scum

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:00 pm Please flip something different

Scirrus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:49 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:39 pm

Scirrus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:38 pm Enrique isn't mafia. Yeet me over him if you'd like

But my vote's on Poison.

Why is Enrique not mafia?

Because he's expressed many thoughts this game I find unlikely to come from mafia. Enrique's mindset doesn't read like someone who's been deceiving civillians all game to me. He seems like demotivated town who just had an aha! maybe this will work! moment. Digging into the flavor and speculating on how it supports a no evict is icing on the cake! If he's mafia then GG. I got outplayed. I'm fine with that.

Scirrus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:38 pm Enrique isn't mafia. Yeet me over him if you'd like

But my vote's on Poison.

Scirrus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:17 pm I don't think Enrique is mafia here.

Scum would want us to keep on track yeeting townies as quickly as possible

[VOTE: Poison] aubergine

Enrique wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:00 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:07 pm

Hell On eArth

The newly elected board members stormed down the hallway of the township building in pursuit of the Lenker brothers. The angry voices of their fellow homeowners echoed out the meeting room doors and down the hall.

The meeting had been a total shit show, which wasn’t too far from the norm for the Lenkers, but this was a new low. They came prepared to pull a fast one at light speed, and their lawyer certainly made that possible. It wouldn’t have surprised them if this was how they dealt with all of the neighborhoods they swindled into existence. The Lenkers’ lawyer knew all the tricks of parliamentary procedure and moved the transition of governance of Piano Estates over to the homeowners in exactly 17 minutes and 12 seconds.

The greedy property management representative, who they would later learn was a cousin of the Lenker boys, seemed to take glee in raising his price every time someone interjected during his three minutes. He priced himself out of the market quickly and also lit a fire under the homeowners to push through a half-assed election of officers that was both contentious and controversial. Nobody felt good about how things went down, and the new board was going to make sure the Lenkers knew that before they could slither off into the night for good.

“Just what in the hell was that you just pulled?” one of the board member yelled at the Lenkers as they climbed into the overcompensating oversized pickup trucks.

“A business transaction,” Corey Lenker replied from the safety of his truck.

“Our lawyer has copies of all the necessary documents for you,” Justin Lenker replied. “Maybe you should go back inside and start reading them.”

“Maybe I should drag you out of that truck and kick your ass right here in the parking lot, you beady-eyed piece of shit,” another board member shouted. To be fair, both Lenker brothers were indeed beady-eyed pieces of shit.

“Look,” Corey Lenker said, “we’re sorry about the abruptness of all this, but we have no choice. We want out and we’ve sold more than enough of the required homes in Phase 3 to execute our rights as developers.”

There was a curious look in Corey’s pale eyes. For the first time, the board members saw none of the usual calculation and scheming they were accustomed to. This was the look of raw fear.

“Why?” someone shouted. “Just tell us why so suddenly and help us understand.”

“I’ll tell you why,” Corey replied.

“Corey, don’t” Justin interjected.

“We’re out because it’s not safe for us anymore.”

“Corey, shut up,” Justin barked.

“What the hell does that mean?” asked someone else.

“We don’t need to be mixed up with the mob, okay?”

“God dammit Corey,” Justin screamed.

“The mob?” someone laughed. “Really?”

“Yeah,” Corey sneered. “Some of you assholes have connections that we want nothing to do with.”

“Who told you that?” another board member asked.

“Word gets around, Corey said. “Developers compete but we also talk to each other. Everybody has connections and we’ve got wind of some of the people we’ve sold to. We’re out, now good night.” He rolled his window up and started his truck.

“Oh now you shut your fat face,” Justin groaned.

Three of the board members stepped in front of Justin’s truck, just in case he was thinking of taking off suddenly. He could be the reasonable one, if you applied the right amount of pressure.

“And what are we supposed to do about this information?” someone asked him. “You know word will get around. People are going to panic and turn on each other.”

“I’ll offer you this,” Justin said. “Anyone buying a home with an HOA is bound to the covenants, by-laws, and use restrictions whether they read them or not. End of story.”

“What does that mean?”

“Go read your covenants and pay special attention to page 37. There’s a little something in there that might help you when you sort out who’s who. Good night folks and good luck.”

The board members stepped away, not satisfied but aware that the Lenkers would be of no more use to them this evening. Their trucks pulled away, growling with all the overpowered diesel fury that money could buy to cover up their insecurities.

“Now what?” someone asked.

“Let’s get reading.”

--------------------------------------------------------

DAY 0 HAS BEGUN.

IT WILL LAST UNTIL APPROXIMATELY 9:00 P.M. EST TOMORROW.

ALL PLAYERS ARE LIMITED TO 10 POSTS DURING DAY 0.

MAKE SURE TO READ THE RULES, AS THEY WILL BE ENFORCED.

The Lenker Brothers are the baddies. They set us up to turn on each other and abuse the eviction clause on page 37. The host is the baddie and we must rebel.

Scirrus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:01 pm I would be shocked the key to this game lies in town collectively choosing to NO EVICT

because it's effectively rewarding not searching for mafia. Which seems against the spirit of the game?

Do people have any thoughts on this?

@Enrique @Epignosis @fingersplints @JaggedJimmyJay @KZA @Poison

KZA wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:59 pm What if it's just JJJ and Epi and they both lied about the other person never abstaining from night kills

Okay probably not but I'm losing it over here

Scirrus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:28 pm Assuming there actually are mafia I stick by my POE

Still think it would be in Poison/JJ/Enrique

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:42 pm

Scirrus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:31 pm If JJJ truly hid behjnd reywas, based on how I understand hider usually works, then poison would have gotten a result that JJJ visited reywas?

Am I off base here. I'm pretty sure the typical hider role is good for escaping kills not investigations

It’s literally what my role does. If someone targets me with something, they hit the person I hid behind instead.

If Poison tracked me on Night 1, then she really tracked reywaS. Getting a result for reywaS is exactly what is supposed to happen.

It’s still possible that her claim is fake, since she claimed that track after I outed my role. But there’s nothing internally inconsistent about it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:51 pm I don't know if G-Man is providing hints as he has in the past. I am not very good at picking up on that stuff.

G-Man wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:07 pm

“Go read your covenants and pay special attention to page 37.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:34 pm

KZA wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:27 pm It's JJJ and Splints isn't it

No, but this does return me to the game-design speculation from before.

If there are only two mafia, they likely have strong roles. Splints could be strong enough if she literally is a role blocker. Enrique and Scirrus could apply as literal double voter/vigilante. KZA can absolutely apply as a chop stopper.

Epi's role claim is somewhat weak by comparison. Poison's claim is strong for town and weak for mafia.

The opposite holds for a mafia team of three. If Enrique is on such a team then we're already pretty much burned. We might be burned regardless since a kill is all they'd need.

If Epi and/or Poison are on a team of two, I think their claims would likely be fake. Neither of them is verified, so could be. Epignosis, who did you take a vote away from?