The Syndicate

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote: Maybe timmer made a good point. Maybe your reasoning on JJJ is the way it is because your pegging him as the SK means you know he is that role. And if that is true, then that makes me worried about you.

It doesn't follow logically at all to think that I would have to be mafia to have info on JJJ (if you are assuming that). There are 2 known info-gathering civvies and 6 civvies with secrets. There are 0 known info-gathering mafia members and 2 with secrets.

Has either Timmer or BWT replied to this? I might have missed it in the flurry of activity

I can't remember if I did or not. I am leaning towards no.

At the time, I thought you felt so strongly about JJJ because you had info on him, and I did not think it was civilian-minded info. Honestly, given the lynch result, I'm not sure my feelings have changed much yet.

That being said, that's also the same reason MM is still my primary suspect.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Quin wrote:I'm sick right now and haven't been keeping up with the thread, so I'm not in the best state to look through 60 pages of content and actually get anything out of it. So, if there's anything I should or need to know then let me know, otherwise I'm just going to start from here. But by all means if you want to direct me to anything specific in previous posts then kick my butt and I'll do it.

here's my fast and dirty summary which I will leave my unproven theories from (even though they are true )

1. Vompatti was Moya, the killer from the mafia team, and was killed night 1 probably from the civvie role Motherfucker=Redeemer. It's unclear whether the M=R kill overrid his kill, or if vomps never submitted one

2. civvie role Rockets Fall On Rocket Falls blocked night powers night 2

3. both the "serial killer" (indy role) and 2nd mafia member, who has vompatti's kill power now that vompatti is dead, targetted the same person (Golden) night 3. I think most of us agree he was definitely civilian

4. We unfortunately haven't managed to lynch a baddie yet.

@everybody Are any of these points under dispute?

Sounds about right to me.

Extra emphasis on #4; we've thoroughly sucked on that one.

I said that given what Rule 4 said, that there was something else going on we aren't publicly aware of. I reiterated it with adding in that it happened after a coin was flipped. How did I disagree with you, trice?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm currently still alive, and y'all are the worst.

Off topic: Why are the quotes in spoilers f'd up now?

You gotta put something inside the quotes I think.

Yeah. It only works if you put the text inside the quotes I believe.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm currently still alive, and y'all are the worst.

same tbh

BWT what exactly do you think "faith of the coin" means?

I think it meant the host flipped a coin to determine the lynch. And whoever's side the coin landed on has some tomfoolery or shenanigans going on that kept them alive.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:So...a tie means no lynch then?

That's not usually how it works. Rule 4 "surrender to the faith of the coin" should mean it was random. I think coin toss and/or Piss Crowns power made the lynch land on marmot and he has some kind of protection, which is why he was joking about wanting to be lynched earlier.

Or the same thing with me, you never know.

Any other theories?

Nah. Looking at Rule 4, I definitely think something else is afoot here. The question is if it is with you or Marmot.

I'm leaning Marmot, because his style of play this game would certainly indicate some kind of immunity.

Linki: No u

So...a tie means no lynch then?

Also, bye Sloonei ( ) and welcome Quin ( )!

Linki: Not unless the host equates a tie with no lynch.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Spoiler: show

MovingPictures07 wrote:MP's End of Day 3 Rainbow - GY!BE Rainbow #9

Strong Town:
timmer

Moderate Town:
Epignosis
Sloonei
Boomslang

Weak Town:
JaggedJimmyJay
triceratopzeuhl
birdwithteeth11
nijuukyugou
sig

Weak Mafia:
LoRab

Moderate Mafia:
Dom
Metalmarsh89

Strong Mafia:
Scotty

This should say Day 4. Holy shit, it's Day 4.

Oops, I forgot BWT. Sorry dude. I'll add him in the weak town.

Didn't you say I was a potential teammate of JJJ's early? What made you move me back to weak town?

I have never mafia read you or JJJ all game really, except maybe the very very beginning of the game when I wasn't sure what to make of JJJ, but even then he was more null than anything.

You're my tinfoil teammates -- tinfoil specifically because you're the two folks in the game I'm town reading that I would currently be least surprised about flipping mafia, and specifically, together.

Okay fair enough then.

timmer wrote:And has Sloonei been around? They are the only vote missing.

Actually, that reminds me. Can we pretty much confirm that Vomps is bad now? Because unless I'm mistaken, everyone posted during this phase.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:MM moved his vote from JJJ to BWT of all people, when he could have moved it to me to force a tie. Does this have anything to do with him saying he wanted to be lynched earlier? Does he have a protect or similar power?

The toothy bird is evil. His life should be taken before that of any marmot (especially the innocent Rosa). He's in league with the evil JagBear!

I'm in league with JJJ to the extent that we're both civs!

triceratopzeuhl wrote:if poll trickery kills me anyway, and I don't have the opportunity, somebody please check voting patterns of my mafia 3 shortlist, as posted earlier

I have been civ reading scotty most of the game but he could just be a good liar... he's one of the 3 people who appear multiple times in my lead lists

Well I feel better about Lorab right now. So I would lean either Scotty or Dom as the potential mafia person on your list.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Spoiler: show

MovingPictures07 wrote:MP's End of Day 3 Rainbow - GY!BE Rainbow #9

Strong Town:
timmer

Moderate Town:
Epignosis
Sloonei
Boomslang

Weak Town:
JaggedJimmyJay
triceratopzeuhl
birdwithteeth11
nijuukyugou
sig

Weak Mafia:
LoRab

Moderate Mafia:
Dom
Metalmarsh89

Strong Mafia:
Scotty

This should say Day 4. Holy shit, it's Day 4.

Oops, I forgot BWT. Sorry dude. I'll add him in the weak town.

Didn't you say I was a potential teammate of JJJ's early? What made you move me back to weak town?

Scotty wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Scotty wrote:I think JJJ killing Vomps N1 fits because he would be most prone to wanting to eliminate wild cards. For what it's worth.

There's a good chance Vompatti was scum. What does that mean to you?

??? Wait I must have missed this. Isn't there only 1 mafia team? Do you think it was the SK?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm not following the Moya stuff right now, but tbh I'm not that concerned with it. Someone can explain it to me later.

It's pretty simple I think. Sleep was one of the roles that killed Golden. Sleep doesn't have a kill until it has inherited the kill from Moya, who had it first. That doesn't happen until Moya is dead according to what we can see in the role descriptions. This suggests that Moya has died already, and the only player it can really be if so is Vompatti. The Motherfucker = Redeemer role provides an explanation for how a baddie Vompatti could have died on Night 1.

Oh wow. Ok, I can't even see on my phone where sleep killed him. I think the picture cuts off. But I'll take your word for it.

If that's the case, then never mind. I need to go back to the drawing board

I feel better about Scotty now with this response. If he was Vomps' teammate, I can't see him making this kind of post.

timmer wrote:I mean, he has to know MM will vote him, so why has he not voted MM? And vice versa? Maybe they are both bad?

Even if both are bad, I would still think trice would vote MM regardless.

But it's the one thing making me nervous about this lynch.

MP, what makes you nervous about an MM lynch?

I'm actually of the opinion that Trice has accomplished one of the ultimate cases of tunneling. Because I just don't see the odds on JJJ being bad to be that great.

Scotty wrote:If MM flips bad, let's lynch MP next kthnx

Actually, if MM flips bad, I would like to lynch you next.

I mean, you complain about not having time to catch up, especially right now, but here you are posting away. When you could be contributing something worthwhile.

Linki @timmer: I missed that somehow lol

timmer wrote:I still think it should be MM, today, MP.

Then move your vote like I did, and let's get MM lynched!

Linki: Ninja's vote for MM should be all the more reason to do so now.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Alright, I no longer am considering the idea that MM is faking; he's clearly trying to contribute. I think we have 3 legit curses floating around.

Maybe. But you're going to have to point it out to me when you're done. Because I am not seeing any significant contributions from MM today outside of him using his "curse" to state his civ and bad reads.

Linki MP:A vote at Scotty? How come? We have 2 notable trains to consider, and you are willing to throw your vote away instead?

Linki2: Okay I've now had like 10 linkis. Y'all need to post slower.

Linki3: DAMMIT STOPPIT! :P

Linki4: How are you so certain Scotty is bad?

Linki5: Another vote for MM? You're making me consider now...

Linki6: But...what's your reasoning?

You don't think Scotty's vote for JJJ is total shit? I can smell it all the way from Texas.

No, I can see that. I was just curious as to why you went that direction is all.

Now finish catching up dammit!

Alright, timmer. I did it. You in or you out?

Linki: Fair point on the Scotty thing. That vote is out of nowhere for sure.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Alright, I no longer am considering the idea that MM is faking; he's clearly trying to contribute. I think we have 3 legit curses floating around.

Maybe. But you're going to have to point it out to me when you're done. Because I am not seeing any significant contributions from MM today outside of him using his "curse" to state his civ and bad reads.

Linki MP:A vote at Scotty? How come? We have 2 notable trains to consider, and you are willing to throw your vote away instead?

Linki2: Okay I've now had like 10 linkis. Y'all need to post slower.

Linki3: DAMMIT STOPPIT! :P

Linki4: How are you so certain Scotty is bad?

Linki5: Another vote for MM? You're making me consider now...

Linki6: But...what's your reasoning?

timmer wrote:We could at least put MM into second place in the poll, I'm not liking that so many people who are under suspicion are voting for JJJ right now.

If MM gets another vote, I would be willing to switch my vote.

I think MM is a more solid all-around choice, but there's enough reasoning in there that I would be comfortable keeping my vote on trice if that does not occur.

Well crud. I misread that. I thought MM had 2 votes already.

Although if he gets a second vote, I will be very tempted to switch my vote.

Well, Lorab voted for Trice.

And yet, timmer, if we switched our votes to MM, it would tie the vote instead...

Timmer, does that sound more appealing to you any? Because even with how much trice has gone up on my ping-o-meter, MM was still my original suspect for today...

God I'm so torn here lol.

Actually, the last post I can even remember MM making that was content-worthy was the first in this day phase. And even then, that was a very long-winded story (still a good one though!) and ended with him voting JJJ for....general evilness? Not entirely sure.

Linki: MP, I would focus on catching up first and then I will engage more with you. I want to know where your head is after that.

Linki @trice: Yeah, I'm still leaning MM as well. I need more time to think about trice as well, because I wonder if I'm looking at this the wrong way.

timmer wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Oh Ponderosa, it would be a shame if I were to join you so soon.

I cannot rest until the claws of evil are rendered hitherto inert.

See, this is the thing about MM. Everyone else finds ways to use quotes or what have you to get messages across, while cursed. MM is mostly just writing fluff, even within his requirement to write this fluff. He could be working to sway people, defend himself, but he isn't. He's goofing, just as he kind of goofed his way through the start of the game. I just don't see a civ, here.

Indeed. It's the one thing that would make me switch my vote to MM.

Timmer, GTH, which is more likely to be bad to you: MM or Trice?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Trice still seems genuine to me. What am I missing?

Are you completely caught up yet or not?

triceratopzeuhl wrote:Even if you lynch me today, remaining civvies can still easily win if they listen to me. I'm sort of resigned to the fact that I die every game I ever play (it's why all my victories are as mafia or indy, being alive isn't typically a win condition for them) and even if you don't lynch me, Dom or JJJ will nightkill me before the game is over.

Like I stated before, if you can give me a good enough reason to vote MM, then I would be willing to move my vote there.

Or a good enough reason to vote for anyone other than you at all. I have time to go back and re-read stuff right now.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hey BWT, are you able to produce some summarized/quick reads for me (whether rainbow or not)? I'm curious where your head is at right now.

Linki: Same question to Trice.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'd like to know where y'all stand on Marmot right now.

I am considering voting for him for today.

Other possibilities for a vote: Scotty, Lorab (but not as likely now that she's done more than just defend herself in every post)

Won't be getting my vote: You, Epignosis

Anyone else is somewhere in the middle.

I already did. That's where my head is right now. Any of those you'd like me to expand on?

Linki: The "anyone else in the middle" part applies to literally anyone else in this game right now that I did not specifically list. Either I had a read on them earlier and it's since been lost amongst players I feel more firm about, or I never did to begin with and still do not.

I will pose the same question to you. Anyone stand out to you that you have a strong or strong-ish read on?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hey BWT, are you caught up?

I am now, yeah. Should be around until EoD.

What do you want to talk about, MP?

Linki: My alternative/rebuttal for today is still MM for lots of things I have already stated. I would be okay if he was gone today as well.

If you think he's a better vote than you, then convince me as to why.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Tentatively I'd still consider MM, but I'm in pure catchup and then re-assess mode right now.

Keep reading. It's why I didn't vote for MM.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:Who has JJJ suspected today?

Me, when I suspect him

Marmot, who suspects him (1, 2)

MP, who posted suspicions of him (1, 2)

Scotty, who suspects him

Lorab, who posted suspicions of him (1, 2)

Epignosis, who posted suspicions of him (1, 2)

Didn't you criticize Lorab for doing basically what you're doing for the past day and a half?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: From this point, her focus has been more about self-defense and answering prompts.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The trend continues with LoRab: limited opportunities to play the game are spent in self-defense.

I agree JJJ has suspected you. And then you went and turned it upside on it's head.

I read most of these links. This is what I would consider an awful case to misrepresent JJJ.

I know where my vote is going today now, unless Marmot comes along and really throws shit around.

trice

triceratopzeuhl wrote:It's alarming that I'm the only person who has even bothered to cross-check suspicions of dead civvies

FWIW I noticed it. I think one could be bad (Scotty) and the other two I'm neutral on (Dom and Lorab). So you may have a point at looking at those 3 there.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:I would talk about them if there was meaningful content - almost 3000 words to say "marmot plays a bit goofy and changes his mind a lot" isn't worth dissecting

Okay, NOW I think you're taking this to an extreme. I've gotten a lot more content from JJJ's posts than just that.

Maybe timmer made a good point. Maybe your reasoning on JJJ is the way it is because your pegging him as the SK means you know he is that role. And if that is true, then that makes me worried about you.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:
If he was an information role as you believe I don't think he would have lynched 3 civs and been so far off in his reads this game

I mean, I have too. It's really hard to nail 4 baddies in a game of 19 players. What's your point here?

timmer wrote:I'd like to know where people stand on Dom, as well. I still feel there is a good chance of him being bad, but if I'm still on an island with that, I'll keep it on the back burner.

With Dom, most of the game I was neutral, leaning baddie. But he's slowly moved the needle to neutral, leaning civ. I would like more from him, but what I have seen I am okay with. Throwing out some questions, slightly argumentative/defensive, doesn't care too much about heat or blowback.

Like I said, the main argument I would give for him is that I could stand to see more from him. Especially given we are up to Day 4 now.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'd like to know where y'all stand on Marmot right now.

I am considering voting for him for today.

Other possibilities for a vote: Scotty, Lorab (but not as likely now that she's done more than just defend herself in every post)

Won't be getting my vote: You, Epignosis

Anyone else is somewhere in the middle.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: trice -- He wasn't as hard on Vompatti for perceived irrelevant content as he was on others (Epi and A Person). He called him a spambot and left it at that. That's not ideal.

That's because that's how vompatti has always been on every website as long as I can remember

knowing now that rico is putting cause of death in host posts instead of just ?????????? for night kills, and that Sleep NK'd golden instead of Moya, it seems rather likely that vomps actually was Moya. I think if we determine that nobody is silenced today it would confirm it

I agree with this. If everybody posts today, I think we can clearly rule that Vompatti was Moya.

I'm not sure I follow this. The Sleep role states that he/she cannot use the silence ability and kill on the same night. Rico's kill post identifies Sleep as one of the killers. This should mean that regardless of whether everyone posts today, Sleep couldn't have silenced anyone. Otherwise Rico falsified his own role description or host post.

Yeah I went back and looked and I had the baddies' abilities mixed up there.

Still though, I think we can certainly gleam info about Vompatti given that his killers were not made public, but Golden's were. And that leads me to believe that Vomps was not good.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'd like to know what others think of Scotty right now. Each time I look at the player list his name stands out loudly to me.

I kind of feel the same way about him as Dom. I think both have struggled to find their grounding in this game. You quote Dom's self-assessment as proof of this. I think Scotty's is a bit different, in the sense that every time he tries to catch up, he fails and falls further and further behind.

I read Scotty as bad earlier. And I do think a baddie could use the "not caught up" excuse for quite awhile before the ruse becomes apparent. But I do not feel like I am seeing that from Scotty yet.

I do feel like he never stated what he saw from me that made me think he was bad though. So I am curious if he does come back soon to know what that is.

I see the difference between Dom and Scotty this way: Dom has struggled to find his grounding as you say, but not for lack of trying. His time in the thread has been limited to shorter stretches, but when he's been here he has seemed to try to push things in some direction or another. He states clear reads, he hurls clear accusations, and he doesn't seemed bothered by the consequences. That's a nice thing. Scotty's appearances however have appeared more lifeless, like he has given up on making use of himself just because he hasn't read every post. That follows what I perceive to be a suspicious post history before his time constraints tightened.

I agree about Dom. He is at least trying to contribute to discussion, and is doing his never-ending prodding in regards to things he does not like and does not care if he gets heat for it or not.

Scotty just seems distant period. And like I said, the "not caught up" excuse can only go so far for so long before I start to see it develop into "you can't lynch me because I don't know what's going on".

So of the two, I definitely feel worse about Scotty right now. But it's more a ping rather than a gut feel.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:Dom posting the same way I'm criticizing JJJ and epignosis for - deliberately misleading when not outright lies in their accusations. Wouldn't be surprised if all three are bad, civvies can and do play honest the way virtually everybody else has been

Well I think that outcome is unlikely because right now, I'm running with the assumption that Vomps is Moya (unless we get 1 player who doesn't post today, in which case it is up in the air). Unless you think 1 of these 3 is the indy role.

So if we go with the assumption that we have 2 baddies and the indy is still alive, which of these 3 would you think is most likely to be the indy role and why?

Linki: I was starting to think that the possibility of there being a baddie or two between Golden, yourself, and MP was likely. Given his death and the fact it specifically states that 2 baddies were involved in his death, I am willing to consider my possibility debunked.

Plus I just read all of Night 3 this morning so that's all swirling around in my mind and hasn't really cleared up much yet. Hopefully as the day goes on I will have more coherent thoughts on it. Because I feel like I read a lot of civ on civ action there.

sig wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

sig wrote:So N1 Vomp died, we see nothing from him
N2 no death
N3 Golden being killed by Sleep and the SK

So one theory is that the SK was the target N2 and being targeted for Nightkilling activated his power
Mafia/SK missed the kill N2
Kill was blocked

N1 is tricky we have no data on who killed Vomp or his role, so he could in theory have been Moya killed by the SK, I find this to be unlikely.


A Person
Wilgy
INH

are all dead, there is no secret near Moya, however Mladic is one big secret. If we think there was shenanigans I'd bet it was caused by him. Here is the issue though we have no proof whatsoever unless one of these three roles flip again to know if there is a seemer like role. I do think we can gather that we're one mafia down, but who it is we have no clue.

sig, could you clarify why you believe it's unlikely Vompatti was Moya?

I forgot the civvie power that can potential kill and thought it was highly unlikely that Vomp was killed by the Serial killer night 1, who also was able to hit a mafia member. The odds seemed very small. However, if it was the civ role it would explain why the kill wasn't published and it would make sense for a civ to check him for his approval of killing highposters. However, it is still slightly unlikely.

There's so many secrets in this game that I am willing to entertain this thought. But for me, it really comes down to if we have anyone who is silenced or not.

Given Vomps' kill wasn't published but Golden's was, no silenced players would certainly indicate Vomps was Moya.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:Sig: rico was brought over from progarchives (not a mafia website) a few years ago by MP, same as me, epignosis, BWT, and A Person

Golden targeted by mafia twice in 3 nights, seems they didn't like what he's been saying.

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:This Fellow [JJJ -ed] is Not a Civilian

I did not like his reasons for being against the Marmot vote. He broke the tie, and it amounted to him claiming that MP and I only suspected him because he suspected us, which was chronologically inaccurate. It was almost like a brush aside.

I could see a Marmot/Jay team. Heck, I could see a Marmot/Jay/Dom team.

Golden wrote:Or maybe Marmot is an innocent bystander.

In any event, epi, I agree about Jay. He worries me. I feel like there is a lack of fire in his opinions. His whole game feels - clockwork, like a man calculating the impact of each post. I can't describe it any other way. He's always bothered me a little but in this lynch it felt much stronger than just tinfoil.

I could see him being NK'd once as a possible misdirect kill, but both mafia and SK trying to kill him implies they were uncomfortable with his reads

Also as per my earlier theory, if one of the insanifiers is civ then that player at least thinks JJJ is bad. I wonder if the role also has an info-getting element? As me and MP have both said this game, civ insanifier use could be reckless if you end up removing teammates' ability to communicate

triceratopzeuhl wrote:biggest change in Golden's theories over the course of day 3 was JJJ from Moderate Town & less likely than sloonei to be bad, to worried about JJJ

As much as I was enjoying the slugfest with epignosis, which I will surely resume when he's un-insanified, I would like to know what others think about this as it's the direction I'm looking most right now

I mean, it's certainly possible. I think mafia primarily makes 1 of 2 types of kills:

1) They kill players who do not make any sense i.e. untraceable kills

2) They kill to steer the thread, either because they do not like what someone is saying or they are trying to discredit someone.

I think Golden's death firmly falls with Option #2. The questions I have at this point is: Are JJJ and Marmot bad? And if one of them is bad, what is the possibility they are teammates?

I thought I was figuring some stuff out, and that the Golden death threw a wrench into some of my thoughts. But I'm starting to think his death might be pushing us in the right direction for finding baddies.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: trice -- He wasn't as hard on Vompatti for perceived irrelevant content as he was on others (Epi and A Person). He called him a spambot and left it at that. That's not ideal.

That's because that's how vompatti has always been on every website as long as I can remember

knowing now that rico is putting cause of death in host posts instead of just ?????????? for night kills, and that Sleep NK'd golden instead of Moya, it seems rather likely that vomps actually was Moya. I think if we determine that nobody is silenced today it would confirm it

I agree with this. If everybody posts today, I think we can clearly rule that Vompatti was Moya.

Also, I admire JJJ's attempt to try to read into Vomps interactions. Because I wouldn't have been able to gain much from it myself. But I think in-thread evidence of everybody being able to talk today would be the only thing that could sway me one way or another.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'd like to know what others think of Scotty right now. Each time I look at the player list his name stands out loudly to me.

I kind of feel the same way about him as Dom. I think both have struggled to find their grounding in this game. You quote Dom's self-assessment as proof of this. I think Scotty's is a bit different, in the sense that every time he tries to catch up, he fails and falls further and further behind.

I read Scotty as bad earlier. And I do think a baddie could use the "not caught up" excuse for quite awhile before the ruse becomes apparent. But I do not feel like I am seeing that from Scotty yet.

I do feel like he never stated what he saw from me that made me think he was bad though. So I am curious if he does come back soon to know what that is.

timmer wrote:And if finding alternatives = the people attacking you, it's another faIL. You tried that with me, as well. If you are fully civ and genuinely want to find badies, going after the people annoyed with your play is destined to not end well, imo.

That said, I am of course paying attention.

To be fair, he did give reasons for why he is suspicious of Trice and JJJ.

I do think he is taking PoE to an ultimate extreme if he is keeping his baddie reads minimal to null though.

Epignosis wrote:

timmer wrote:Epig, all people want out of you, and I don't get why you don't get this, are some alternatives. I mean, I said just like you dI'd that many of the cases yesterday were problematic. But that's where it ended for you. You are stubbornly refusing to take the lead in finding better choices and until you start to, just saying that you were right is going to go nowhere.

Linki: your refusal to find baddies is discrediting you, man. Take some responsibility for your lack of finding bad guys and stop blaming everybody for not seeing you as the uber-civ you claim to be.

If You Find The Civilians, You Only Have Mafia Left Over and It Starts to Get Very Uncomfortable for Them

So wait....are you?....

Okay, I get it now. Stealing MP's strategy. :P

Epignosis wrote:I Don't Have to Have an Alternative Mr. POE- it's Good Enough That I Tell You Who Not to Lynch and Why

I disagree. If you have a better idea of who we could have lynched at the time, why did you not state so? I still don't get that.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Epignosis wrote: Way to Characterize My Contributions

in a 50 page game you can only point to 3 counterexamples, my characterization stands completely

But still, with how much posting has already occurred in this game, I'm not sure that argument stands. Epig has been correct about 3 out of 3 mislynches here so far.

And from what I have seen in this night phase so far, it seems like he is finally starting to expound on some of his thoughts. So I am willing to listen.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:I'll admit that I have no suspicions that are particularly strong, though. I feel like I have a lot more town reads than I do baddie reads.

Generally agreed. Even without a concerted effort to employ POE, I find myself doing it by accident. The suspicions I have voiced lately are my most substantive, but I don't boast the confidence in those reads I would like for a Day 3. Even still the town reads aren't extremely confident; I get the impression that reads are more likely to gravitate toward the gray center in a survival-oriented game. That mindset permeates the thread in a tangible way. I have only played in a couple like this though.

This Fellow is Not a Civilian

How so? Because I read that as someone's playstyle.

Unless you are implying that he is intentionally playing "by the numbers" for him. Because I would agree there. I just don't know yet if that makes his play so far manufactured or not.

LoRab wrote:Meh. Although I still say he wasn't playing a civ role in a particularly helpful way to the civ cause, so I'm not particularly bothered by the result as non mafia lynches go.

I mean, I get this sentiment, but that's still 1 less civ we have on our side this game. At one point in my mafia career, I would have agreed with this. Now I do not.