The Syndicate

Canucklehead wrote:I can't be accountable with my own vote because I haven't read the thread closely enough to have an opinion on anyone except you and will not do so before tomorrow evening.
I am willing to follow your vote because, as you frequently note, you've been pretty obvious with hint dropping, and someone was kind enough to requote those, and I'm choosing to believe those hints. If you'd prefer I use my own brain randomize, cool. My randomometer will probably land on Vompatti. But that's actually surprising to me that you are averse to people following your lead, when you've been so diligent in making sure people know your alignment. Why role hint if you don't want to use your hints to gain influence in the thread?
If you want to vote for me, totally fine. I get it, I really do. Like I've repeatedly said, I'm not really playing and am only useful to the civs as a number. If you honestly don't want my vote to go where you suggest/want to put your vote on me, fine. But let me know now so that I can vote and not worry about checking into the thread tomorrow.

(I get it if you're just trying to spur me into more participation......but that's really a dead end. Sorry. )

Alright. I'll address each bolded part separately.

1) This feels like sucking up to me. Why only follow someone's ideas because you believe in their hint-dropping? I'm not saying whether or not SVS is telling the truth (mostly because I'm apparently obtuse and haven't noticed it yet ), but that seems like a really weird reason to want to give someone your vote for the day.

2) Why Vompatti though? If you brought his name up before as someone you're suspicious of, I missed it. Otherwise, feels more like trying to butter SVS up.

3) Why this obsession with giving away your vote. If you're suspicious of someone (Vompatti I guess?), then just vote for that person. I've had games where I've been really busy and haven't been able to follow the flow very well too, but the best way you could help us if you are a civ is to go that route.

But I'm starting to think you might not be a civ.

Actually, the starting phase is over. I really don't think you are one.

Votes Canuck

Sorry for the quick post. But I won't be around much today. Going to try and catch up a bit, but I have a few errands to run and I'm going to the Reds game tonight with some friends, so I probably won't be back until tomorrow morning.

rabbit, I'll read up on your stuff with Bullz. I'm also going to check on SVS one more time to see if I can see what several other people claim to be seeing with her. Because I'm still not yet.

I think I'm confused on Canuck now though. Her post just above about being busy, and then saying she's going to vote for whomever SVS votes for? Especially after a post like this:

Canucklehead wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Canucklehead wrote:

Golden wrote:@elo - may as well own up to the truth. I spent the last few hours trying very hard to win hearts and minds to voting vomps to save zombs.

Frankly, I'm ok with being lynched tomorrow because of it, if thats how it goes down.

Fwiw, I changed my mind about Zombs because of SVS, not you

Actually, I changed my mind becasue of him :pout.

I literally do not think I have said anything to/about SVS this game that she hasn't immediately contradicted....even innocuous non-accusatory stuff like this
Do I smell bad, SVS? Why won't you let me be your friend?

I thought it might be because Canuck trusts SVS, but idk if that's actually the case or not. :shurg:

Well great. RIP Elo!

Also, this day period was way, WAY too quiet. That is my biggest takeaway right now and it makes me feel even more uncomfortable about this lynch.

Alright. Read back on SVS and I must be a dunce of some kind. Because for some reason I'm not finding anything related to massive role-hinting. I'll try and look again later.

Don't feel great about it, but going for Elo today. I can't really think of anyone else who deserves my vote now, and I don't think I have the time to try and find any additional suspects right now.

Votes Elo

Turnip Head wrote:I'm having a hard time believing the baddies would silence Elo. All their other silence targets have been active involved players. Doesn't really make sense for them to silence Elo IMO. Idk.

Same here. The only problem is that I went back and re-read her. And while I don't feel really bad about her, I don't feel great either. The most baddie thing she's done is potential damage control. But idk...

Dom wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote: My statement on hearing from someone who feels SVS is civ is still open though. Speak up peeps! I know there's a few of you out there!

It's mostly the blatant role hinting she's been doing tbh. I really don't see how people aren't picking it up. Not believing her is a choice, but it's not like you could accuse her of being subtle.

Exactly this, it's actually bothering me that they haven't seen this and haven't dropped it.

Am I dense?

I think I'm just as dense as you, Dom. I had no idea she did that. Let me go back and see if I can find it before the lynch ends.

Dom wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
I felt strongly about both Liz and SVS. Still feel strongly about SVS, and wouldn't mind hearing from more people other than Dom who think she isn't bad. Because I'm still not seeing the other side to that one.

?????

Nevermind. I'm thinking of this.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Dom wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Dom wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I really think SVS is civ friendly this game.

I think I buy her story too.

tbh I think I buy it. I'm a bit nervous because I think her focus on me, but then justifying not voting Epig was weird though. :/ IDK

Out of curiosity, what made you change your mind on SVS?

What do you mean?

Well when you said you buy her story, I thought you meant you're leaning civ on her. Are you now or does her not voting Epig still make you unsure of her or think she's bad?

SVS voted for Epi.

Oops. I didn't see the word "justifying" in there.

I can't words today.

I probably shouldn't being doing mafia when I'm this tired and drinking bourbon. Because I totally misremembered that. Sorry!

My statement on hearing from someone who feels SVS is civ is still open though. Speak up peeps! I know there's a few of you out there!

RIP MM and DF if you were good. Juliets' idea about Sandringham getting a NK for last night seems like the most sound explanation so far for why DF died. Because I think he'd be a really odd kill choice for the baddies.

Curious as to why the poet thinks I'm bad, but I'll fetch any questions directed at me.

I felt strongly about both Liz and SVS. Still feel strongly about SVS, and wouldn't mind hearing from more people other than Dom who think she isn't bad. Because I'm still not seeing the other side to that one.

Canuck being quiet is interesting. But if she's super-busy IRL then that would explain to me why she hasn't increased in the amount of posting yet. I think she's made many of her opinions fairly clear though.

So rabbit thinks Eloh is bad? Interesting, given what he's said so far in this game makes me feel good about him. I'd be willing to re-read her for sure, especially since I don't have much of a read on her and keep forgetting at times that she's playing.

Don't really have a read on anyone else currently.

Dom wrote:i think the baddies put the safe up there to make us scared.

Interesting idea. And given the message along with it, that actually makes sense.

Well dammit! RIP Liz and sorry I was wrong there!

On the plus side, I feel better about SVS possibly being bad. But I really need to start looking elsewhere too. Because I feel like I'm starting to become narrow-minded.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Have a good Easter.

Dom, I had a dream last night in which I voted for you in today's lynch.

Given this isn't in sarcasm orange, I have to ask...

Do you think Dom is potentially a baddie? And what have you seen that makes you think that? Because I don't see him being bad at all.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Was everyone just waiting for someone else to place the first vote?

I did notice that early voters have a higher tendency to have a shorter lifespan. :lamia:

Not really. I was intending to vote for Liz last night, but fell asleep and didn't get a chance to.

But that's okay. I think her claiming she's willing to give away her vote is the last final, desperate gasp from her. Still don't feel good about SVS, but I feel far worse about Liz after that.

Votes Liz

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Do the Celestials and/or the mafia have BTSC?

What's the reason for you asking why? I guess I had just assumed the Celestials had BTSC.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I do not think Vomps is bad, and anyone who votes him a second time today should be seriously looked at as possibly being bad. I think people looking to vote him today are just grasping at straws.

Do you think vomps is not bad because of the Zomba lynch, or does he read not bad to you?

Linki: I've never heard that before. I also try to read each game separate from another. If someone else brings something like that up, I'm willing to talk about it, but I don't usually go out of my way to compare a player's behavior from one game to another. Every player adapts and regresses to the game, just like a pitcher in baseball.

Neither actually. I just think that the reasons I've seen for wanting him lynched are incredibly weak. Especially compared to the vast majority of other people out there who I think have more legitimate reasons to be held under the microscope.

I'm the same as you with that, normally. But it's like a little voice I can't shake out of my head, even if logic is telling me otherwise. Like I said, I'm mostly curious as to others' thoughts on it.

Speaking of things I've heard before, I feel like I've heard several people mention over the course of my mafia history that SVS tends to be fairly calculated and rational when she's bad and is accused of being bad, but more emotional and reactionary when she's good and is accused of being bad. Anyone have any thoughts on this idea?

MM, while I know you didn't post a case per say on Liz, I think it makes a very compelling argument to her being bad. Especially her question about the Celestials from Day 2(?). Seems to me the kind of thing only a baddie would be interested in knowing. I don't think a civvie would care too much, and would assume that the Celestials are trying to help them lynch baddies.

I do not think Vomps is bad, and anyone who votes him a second time today should be seriously looked at as possibly being bad. I think people looking to vote him today are just grasping at straws.

I am still up for either a Liz or SVS lynch too. I thought I was stronger on SVS, but MM's post on Liz makes me feel more comfortable about her now. I'll have to mull this one over.

Long Con wrote:RIP, Splintsy, if it's any consolation, I trusted you for the most part.

I feel like it's something I've seen in a game before... a baddie killing the very Civvie that trusted them the most as a way to trick the other Civvies.

I know, right? But nah. That would be way too obvious.

S~V~S wrote:OK, if Eloh, his wife, and Juliets, the gentlest Mafia player I know, can vote for him, so can I.

Sorry Epi, I thought you might have sent me that Compliment Epi thing, but I don't think you did.

Okay. So that's SVS' post about voting for Epig.

@Dom: Is the bolded part where you think she justifies not voting for Epig? Or is it in another post entirely?

Linki: Alrighty then.

rabbit8 wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Dom wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Dom wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I really think SVS is civ friendly this game.

I think I buy her story too.

tbh I think I buy it. I'm a bit nervous because I think her focus on me, but then justifying not voting Epig was weird though. :/ IDK

Out of curiosity, what made you change your mind on SVS?

What do you mean?

Well when you said you buy her story, I thought you meant you're leaning civ on her. Are you now or does her not voting Epig still make you unsure of her or think she's bad?

SVS voted for Epi.

Oops. I didn't see the word "justifying" in there.

I can't words today.

Dom wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Dom wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I really think SVS is civ friendly this game.

I think I buy her story too.

tbh I think I buy it. I'm a bit nervous because I think her focus on me, but then justifying not voting Epig was weird though. :/ IDK

Out of curiosity, what made you change your mind on SVS?

What do you mean?

Well when you said you buy her story, I thought you meant you're leaning civ on her. Are you now or does her not voting Epig still make you unsure of her or think she's bad?

fingersplints wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Um, I aggressively pursued her until freaking Golden made me think I was wrong. It was like 5:30 AM, I came in the thread, and Zomba & Liz had lulled Golden into a sense of complacency. He said he did not think she was bad, I read her posts from that night and thought he might have a point. I did not trust my own gut, and I got burnt by her (and Golden). When you posted those two quotes from me that morning with Golden and Zomba and made the crack about my post, then my next post, you did NOT mention that they were 40 minutes or so apart. You also did not mention that it was like 5 or 6 AM and no one was here, lol.

But like I said, I have been very open. If you choose to ignore it, or not believe it because it would be more fun for you if i am bad, that's fine. But I am not bad, and I think you know that

Nice deflection to Golden there.

I'm pretty sure golden thought he was to blame too

I think he did, yeah. But given Golden is dead now, this feels a bit too...convenient to me.

I'd really like to hear something convincing from the people who think SVS is civ/civ-friendly. Because I feel like I can only see one side of this and would like to be able to examine other perspectives.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm starting to become paranoid that TH is the millionaire and vomps keeps voting him to give him power.

I've been wondering about this too. With Vomps being the one to vote him, it's a really good cover too.

S~V~S wrote:Um, I aggressively pursued her until freaking Golden made me think I was wrong. It was like 5:30 AM, I came in the thread, and Zomba & Liz had lulled Golden into a sense of complacency. He said he did not think she was bad, I read her posts from that night and thought he might have a point. I did not trust my own gut, and I got burnt by her (and Golden). When you posted those two quotes from me that morning with Golden and Zomba and made the crack about my post, then my next post, you did NOT mention that they were 40 minutes or so apart. You also did not mention that it was like 5 or 6 AM and no one was here, lol.

But like I said, I have been very open. If you choose to ignore it, or not believe it because it would be more fun for you if i am bad, that's fine. But I am not bad, and I think you know that

Nice deflection to Golden there.

Dom wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I really think SVS is civ friendly this game.

I think I buy her story too.

tbh I think I buy it. I'm a bit nervous because I think her focus on me, but then justifying not voting Epig was weird though. :/ IDK

Out of curiosity, what made you change your mind on SVS?

juliets wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I don't know what SVS is anymore. I guess I'm currently sitting on the fence with her. Although I'm still leaning towards her being bad.

bwt, what stands out for you as evidence she is bad? I am reading her as civ this game but want to make sure I am looking at both sides of the issues.

Certainly! Let me pull some quotes for you.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Dom knows how I feel about distancing.

Feelings can change ..........

Linki

Exactly, and mine did. About Zomba, not distancing.

Alright.

But the results of this lynch might affect how I feel about you changing your mind on Zomba.

Linki: HELLS YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH

Linki2: Absolutely, Bullz. Major save attempt right there.

This is right after the Zomba lynch. SVS mentioned that she had re-read Zomba's argument that morning and it had made her do a 180 on Zomba (from bad to possibly good). So her changing her mind the way she did was what started it. It didn't feel genuine to me and still doesn't.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Dom wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Also, how is Zomba being bad mean that Vomps might not also be bad?

Why does Zomba being bad mean that Vomps is bad?

S~V~S wrote:It doesn't mean that. I never said that. But her being bad does mnotb make him good.

Then what does it mean?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:It means he could be bad or good. This isn't rocket science.

So then you can't decide which he is?

I smelled BS here. I don't think SVS is obtuse (far from it), so I think she might have been worried about how the Zomba lynch made her look. So she's intentionally being indirect here. And yet, when I pointed that out to her...

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:It means he could be bad or good. This isn't rocket science.

So then you can't decide which he is?

Wow that is quite the misinterpretation of what I said. What I said was that just because Zomba was bad does not make Vomps good. You and Dom are taking a simple remark and twisting it into something it is not.

And Rabbit, I am not bad, and furthermore, I think you know it.

So if you had to lean good or lean bad right now for Vomps, which would it be?

I'm not twisting your words against you. All I've done is pull direct quotes and asked questions. How is that twisting?

...apparently that means Dom and I "are taking a simple remark and twisting it into something it is not".

So yeah. That's the main gist of why I don't feel good about SVS. And I still don't.

I don't know what SVS is anymore. I guess I'm currently sitting on the fence with her. Although I'm still leaning towards her being bad.

Yay! I highly suspect this was another lynch where the baddies piled on a teammate once he was a lost cause. Although I still also feel unsure about Liz so I'm not sure where to look yet.

But a terrific result nonetheless. BIH you....

Alright. I could see myself voting for either Liz or Epig. I think I'm going to go with Epig this time though. Him bringing up the whole "info" thing before LC ever mentioned it in his case still seems really fishy to me. Add in all the curses and I think it's a team trying to cover one of the members' tracks.

Votes Epig

MM, I'm still eager to hear your case. Even if you don't think it's worth it.

Liz, if Vomps really is one of your prime suspects, why refuse to throw a vote on him? Talking about someone you think is bad and never voting them makes me think you're throwing out a teammate's name just to try to semi-distance, but not voting them because you're afraid to take a teammate down.

I honestly have no idea how to read Dom right now. All the curses on Epig make me feel worse about him though, not better. Like I think someone wants to help him hide something.

MM, if you don't think someone should get lynched, then don't vote for them to try and keep the Millionaire from getting votes. Because you doing that makes me think that you're one of two roles.

Linki: I could consider a vote for Liz today. But I could just as well for MM or Epig too.

Linki2: And yet, if you think we should lynch Liz because she's bad, then why mention not that long ago that Epig needs to be lynched? Having trouble making up your mind?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Rest in peace DP. I am sorry to lose you and also genuinely confused as to why you were targeted.

Hey MM, do you believe me now that I've got your bottle?

Like the time I ran away
Turned around and you were standing close to me

Wish the sun to stand still
Reaching out to touch our own being
Past a mortal as we, here we can be

Workings of man
Set to ply out historical life
Regaining the flower of the fruit of his tree
All awakening all restoring you

I think I might need to re-read Epig. That post of his that LC pulled looks really different to me now that we know the second will was a fake one.

S~V~S wrote:I think that it was confirming that it was false.

That's the only thing I can think. I guess I'm over-thinking this too much.

I don't know about the will either. But until I know the source of all those notes in the paper, I'm not sure if it's worth believing any of them.

RIP DP.

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense from the baddie team's perspective. If he wasn't one of them, and given he was a prime suspect, I'm not sure why they NKed him.

Unless it's to completely throw us off their trail as to who they could be.

Heck with it. I'll vote for State St. too.

Well that didn't turn out like I figured it would at all. RIP Sophie! Sorry for being so wrong.

Elohcin wrote:yeah, I didn't think she was bad. Sorry Sophie.

Why did you vote for her then?

Linki

Sophie wrote:Im clearly not jumping in a bandwagon here, fs, and you know it.
I did it with MM, cause was too busy.
I subbed in when there were 20 pages already and thread was going fast. I was very busy that weekend so while i slowly catched up, other 20 pages were written.

Its ok if you dont believe me and wanna vote for me. But dont make me repeat all this things, i said them already. Dont make me show again why i voted dp and mentioned him before. Its all here in thr thread for anyone to see.

Vote me cause i have been somewhat lying low and not contributing compared to my usual civ game, that at least has merit, eventhough its wrong

That's part of my reason for voting you as well. Thanks for reminding me!

I don't get the push for DP at all. The only two reasons I can see for voting for him are:

1) Because of some item swapping that may or may not incriminate him due to lack of hard evidence.
2) Because he's normally such an easy target with being quiet. Attach #1 to it and viola, an easy lynch candidate!

I think FS is right on with Sophie, however. The fact that she jumps in and attaches herself to the DP bandwagon makes me feel even better about her lack of being involved.

Votes Sophie

I'm really super tired right now so I won't be posting much tonight. I'm hoping I can absorb what I'm reading right now, and then reflect on it tomorrow.

juliets wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:

juliets wrote:So I guess SVS is under a spell where she has to praise Epi profusely. I wonder how many times she has to do this. Hopefully not many.

Convenient.

Indeed. I wonder if she's allowed to comment on other things though?

Still looking at voting for her today anyway.

bwt have you put a case forth on her? I looked but all I found was you questioning her about her vomps vote. Are you looking to vote for her today because she voted vomps? I just want to make sure I am not missing anything.

That's part of it. I think her 180 on going from Zomba to Vomps the way she did is very insincere. I think she was trying to save a teammate. There's also the quote (can't remember where) where she said something along the lines of Zomba being bad means that Vomps is neither bad nor good (I'd go find the quote for better context). And I feel like she won't give a direct answer when I questioned her on what that means. Especially considering she voted for Vomps.

That and I wonder if she's currently under some kind of enchantment or power or whatnot that is forcing her to flatter Epig a lot. But I'm going to wait on more posts from her before I determine that. Seems awfully convenient though.

rabbit8 wrote:

juliets wrote:So I guess SVS is under a spell where she has to praise Epi profusely. I wonder how many times she has to do this. Hopefully not many.

Convenient.

Indeed. I wonder if she's allowed to comment on other things though?

Still looking at voting for her today anyway.

RIP Golden! Bye AP and welcome back MM!

Interesting points on Canuck, rabbit. I want to hear what she has to say before commenting further though.

S~V~S wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:It means he could be bad or good. This isn't rocket science.

So then you can't decide which he is?

Wow that is quite the misinterpretation of what I said. What I said was that just because Zomba was bad does not make Vomps good. You and Dom are taking a simple remark and twisting it into something it is not.

And Rabbit, I am not bad, and furthermore, I think you know it.

So if you had to lean good or lean bad right now for Vomps, which would it be?

I'm not twisting your words against you. All I've done is pull direct quotes and asked questions. How is that twisting?

Also, I'm going for Van Buren St.

S~V~S wrote:It means he could be bad or good. This isn't rocket science.

So then you can't decide which he is?

Dom wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Also, how is Zomba being bad mean that Vomps might not also be bad?

Why does Zomba being bad mean that Vomps is bad?

S~V~S wrote:It doesn't mean that. I never said that. But her being bad does mnotb make him good.

Then what does it mean?

S~V~S wrote:Fell free to look at Golden & Epi.

Nah. I think it's cool to group you in there too.

S~V~S wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

rabbit8 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Dom knows how I feel about distancing.

Feelings can change ..........

Linki

Exactly, and mine did. About Zomba, not distancing.

Alright.

But the results of this lynch might affect how I feel about you changing your mind on Zomba.

Linki: HELLS YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH

Linki2: Absolutely, Bullz. Major save attempt right there.