The Syndicate

Dom wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:27 am Half of me: inh is def civ after that post

the other half of me: why does inh only show up when someone calls his name?

Laziness. A lack of mafia time. A personal fondness towards Luca Guadganino's filmography. Take your pick.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:50 pm INH: Why did you withhold your defense of Wilgy until today? None of the arguments against him changed or evolved since before.

I didn't purposefully withhold anything. I stated that I didn't agree with Daisy's case and thought it was bullpucky when she posted it in the Cerberus Tribe thread. I stated that I had misgivings about voting for him, but I still did it anyway on Day 9. That led to people voting for me for "distancing." Then, when I posted a spirited defense of him, the same handful of people responded to me with a shrug, basically ignoring the question of his alignment, and asked me "why not Wilgy?"

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:04 am I’m all aboard with that idea [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

[VOTE:

] aubergine

Please allow me to have my S~V~S moment of Atticus Finch'ing Wilgy before he gets decisively sold down the river.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:53 pm Hey why are we all on wilgy now? This thread seems just be barreling down the path of least resistance right now. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but there's not a whole lot of critical discussion going on here. What's more fun and exciting than sound critical discussion?

This is the post that I keep coming back to. This here thread's hella flighty, going after, as Sloonei says, the path of least resistance.

That's because of a strange contradiction which is occupying this game. Despite having successfully killed multiple mafia members, no one's actually acting like they know what's going on. People aren't really extrapolating things from flips. Instead, we're going with gut reads and flights of fancy. Except, of course, when an act of bizzarity like the whole Speedchuck conundrum pops up, which, to be honest, would have gotten him lynched in whatever game it happened in.

It's hard to pinpoint the root cause of this passivity and confused malaise, *COUGH*CHICKACHIKAMECHANICS*COUGH* but we can see it displayed in full force with the case against the good honorable Doctor Wilgy, who, let's be honest, is definitely gonna be lynched today.

SYNDICATE CRIME STORY

THE PEOPLE VS. DOCTOR WILGY

1. "META"

Spacedaisy's argument which more or less kicked this whole thing off centered around her belief in a simple dichotomy between the good, civilian DrWilgy, and the evil, scummy Mr. Hyde DrWilgy. Good Wilgy is zany, irrelevant, and usually actively self-sabotaging. We've all seen DrWilgy in games before, acting like some kind of madman, randomly interjecting nonsensical asides into the thread. It's what he's known for. He's a successor to the previous King of Irreverence, [mention]Vompatti[/mention]. (RIP) That, according to Daisy, is the "civ" Wilgy.

Meanwhile, there ostensibly exists a second doppelganger-esque version of Wilgy which lies in wait, exhibiting such maniacal stratagems as "logic," and "effort" to stymy people into believing he's civilian, when really he's a dirty, rotten scummeister.

Basically, "weird" Wilgy = civ, and "intelligent" Wilgy = scum.

That's a pretty bullshit meta case, even by the low standards of meta cases. Assuming that this is true impugns the good Doctor's character. Who are we, who presume to know what lies in the mind of Wilgy? This is the Game of Champions, and despite a sluggish start, I'd expect everyone to bring their A-game. (Even though I myself have faltered at this due to hosting obligations.) It's a dumb, reductive, and certainly not flattering case that throws context out the window. Furthermore, and this is just my opinion, I'd rather play with a persuasive, involved, comprehensible version of Wilgy than the fountain of wackiness. Enthusiastically agreeing with this meta case seems like a way to message to Wilgy that he should be less involved in games, because people will just assume that he's, y'know, trying because he's bad, and not because he just enjoys playing.

Bleh.

2. "PREVIOUS ROLE"

As far as I can gather, and this has kinda been my pet theory from the start, roles don't actually come with a pre-defined alignment. S~V~S was the literal plague, and she's a strong civ read for me.

It seems to me that if you suspect Wilgy because of his previous role, you must also view everyone else through that lens. No cherrypicking who "it makes sense for." For me, that has too many repurcussions that contradict my views.

3. "THE SPRITYO KILL"

Really, Sloonei has been the only one beating this drum, and I have to give him credit for it. This reason's way stronger than the first two, mainly due to its reliance on facts.

FACT: Sprityo was killed Night 8 on the Pikachu Tribe after the wacky swap.

FACT: It must have been (at least) one of the following eight people - Sloonei, Kylemii, Spacedaisy, Scotty, DharmaHelper, Epignosis, Sprityo himself, or DrWilgy. (At least) one of those eight people is a moiderer.

This is where things get all subjective-y, but I've personally had more reason to suspect Daisy, Scotty, and DH than Wilgy. Interesting how they all seem to be funneling onto him today. I don't jive with Sloonei's POE reasoning, and if you suspect any of the other eight people, you don't either.

4. "DAMMIT, GOLDEN, YOU REALLY COULDN'T FIND A FRIGGIN' REPLACEMENT FOR THE GAME OF CHAMPIONS?"

This is the unescapable reality which will dictate why he'll probably be lynched today. DrWilgy has a ton of shit going on in his life currently, and cannot participate in the thread or lend to discussion very much. He popped back up during on March 21st, and has posted a couple of times since then, but overall does not seem to be stepping up his participation. Wilgy has gots to do what Wilgy has gots to do.

All that makes him an uber-easy target. No resistance, no pushback. All you have to do is sigh and go, "Wilgy, I guess," and everyone will nod their head in understanding. And that's why he's gonna be lynched today. Not because of any solid reasoning. Because he's the easiest option, the path of least resistance.

My fellow Champions, why must it be that way? Can we please all, including the poor old Doctor Wilgy, find in our hearts to try and do better than this?

Hell, lynch me for posting a large, rambling, nonsensical post passionately defending an inactive player without really providing a strong alternative! At least that's an actual reason for suspicion.

i love it when people declare a person to be the "easy vote," and then vote for another person, therefore disproving their own point.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:45 pm
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:41 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:39 pm Also, Bet money Kyle or Lorab are bad.
:: scrawls in notepad ::

Any particular reason, or are you just feeling lucky?
2+2 is 4 minus 1 that's 3 quick maffs.

Get it? Mafs.

[VOTE: DHARMAHELPER]

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:39 pm Also, Bet money Kyle or Lorab are bad.

:: scrawls in notepad ::

Any particular reason, or are you just feeling lucky?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:58 pm I think the irony of making David Lynch vanilla was what the hosts were aiming for. It's clever.

Voting for Speedchuck, as I feel like it will provide the most information out of all the options. Plus, if we don't get rid of him, people will just keep speculating about him endlessly. I want some resolution, dammit.

[VOTE: Speedchuck] aubergine

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:54 pm
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:51 pm I figure I might as well voice some input on the two recently revealed parts of this game which relate back to Blue Velvet Mafia, a game I hosted, and provide some context.

"Mutiny For 3" allowed three people to form a new independent team which must eliminate everyone else to win. DH and company basically used it to break the game, so I guess Golden and juliets nerfed it, making it so if more or less than three people tried to do it, it failed to occur. That seems to be what happened.

David Lynch isn't actually a role in Blue Velvet Mafia, but he did direct the film that the game was based on. He's known for being one of the most goddamn bizarre directors around, and is an all-around affable weirdo. He's probably my favorite director.

S~V~S and others have talked about certain mechanics which they feel Golden and Juliets "must" have included in the game to make things "fair." I don't know if I necessarily agree with that, but I will say that I'll be a little bit disappointed in them if they took David Lynch and made him a vanilla role. That's just ignoring a possible avenue of creativity, right there.

So, I think there's more than meets the eye with DH. This isn't necessarily something nefarious, but either his role appears vanilla, or he got turned vanilla by someone else. I realize that due to the info-dumping and role-claiming rules, DH can't really clear any of this up, but it's definitely something I'm keeping my eye on, and it influences my read of him.
I dunno.

no hay banda?

I figure I might as well voice some input on the two recently revealed parts of this game which relate back to Blue Velvet Mafia, a game I hosted, and provide some context.

"Mutiny For 3" allowed three people to form a new independent team which must eliminate everyone else to win. DH and company basically used it to break the game, so I guess Golden and juliets nerfed it, making it so if more or less than three people tried to do it, it failed to occur. That seems to be what happened.

David Lynch isn't actually a role in Blue Velvet Mafia, but he did direct the film that the game was based on. He's known for being one of the most goddamn bizarre directors around, and is an all-around affable weirdo. He's probably my favorite director.

S~V~S and others have talked about certain mechanics which they feel Golden and Juliets "must" have included in the game to make things "fair." I don't know if I necessarily agree with that, but I will say that I'll be a little bit disappointed in them if they took David Lynch and made him a vanilla role. That's just ignoring a possible avenue of creativity, right there.

So, I think there's more than meets the eye with DH. This isn't necessarily something nefarious, but either his role appears vanilla, or he got turned vanilla by someone else. I realize that due to the info-dumping and role-claiming rules, DH can't really clear any of this up, but it's definitely something I'm keeping my eye on, and it influences my read of him.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:59 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:44 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:40 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:09 pm I wouldn't call that a slip up, fwiw.
What exactly is the suspicion against him?
Distancing. I don't think you misunderstand, I just think calling it a slip is wrong. To me, a slip is what LC did. I'm kinda arguing semantics but to me there's a big difference between "behavior that indicates one may be mafia" and "slip".
Distancing from wilgy?
@insertnamehere care to respond to this?

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:19 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:11 pm My question was your answer, SVS.

We are not voting INH for the reasons he gave to lynch Wilgy.

We are voting him for the reasons he gave NOT to lynch Wilgy.
Do you disagree with my reasons? I'm sorry, it was an 11-3 split, a couple hours until EOD, and the person with three votes was someone I think is an active town. Speedchuck isn't lynchable, and I don't have time to shout Sig or Scotty's name from the rafters, and given the "strategy" I've seen on display, I doubt anyone would have gave a damn anyway.

DDL responded to this with:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:27 pm It's not like I need you to agree with the case anyway.

I gave my reasons for what I did, and I don't think it's "distancing." Apparently, some people disagree. Bully for them.

David Lynch is a lot of things. Vanilla ain't one of them.

Golden wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:31 pm
MUTINY FOR THREE

There is now the opportunity for three players to mutiny. What will happen if there is a mutiny, you ask? Well, I tell you...

Here are the rules of the mutiny for three.

1) If you wish to mutiny, PM both hosts saying so. PMs must be in during this night phase.

2) If the hosts receive exactly three PMs from players who wish to mutiny, a mutiny will occur.

3) You may not discuss this mutiny during this night phase. At all. This includes planning whether you are sending a PM with each other, talking about whether you did or did not send a PM, or endeavouring to make any hints that don't appear to be about the mutiny but actually are. It is entirely off limits to discuss. If you have any questions, PM them.

4) At the end of the night phase, you will be informed by the hosts of the outcome of the mutiny for three. Only after that post may you discuss the mutiny.

oh fuck

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:21 pm Whether I agree with your reasons or not is irrelevant.

The problem is that you began a vote post with "I don't think he is bad"

The devil is in the details.

Uh huh.

Well, if you aren't willing to talk about the reasons behind my vote, then your case is irrelevant.

Nothing I have seen from Wilgy makes me think he is bad. But, he's still, IMO, the best lynch candidate for today.

I don't think those two statements are contradictory.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:20 pm Insulting my mafia play is not a good way to get me to change my mind, fwiw.

Well, you're wrong, and I think the methods you employed to come to your conclusion are flawed. I'm not saying that you, Cbob, are a bad mafia player. Just that you, cbob, made a bad play.

And if me disagreeing with you doesn't make you change your mind, well, maybe I'm more interested in honesty than flattery.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:19 pm Nonsensical analysis? It's textbook distancing. "I don't really believe this person is bad but I have no choice but to lynch them." Wrong, there's always a choice. Vote for people you think are mafia.

:: insert a wall of eye roll gifs here ::

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:11 pm My question was your answer, SVS.

We are not voting INH for the reasons he gave to lynch Wilgy.

We are voting him for the reasons he gave NOT to lynch Wilgy.

Do you disagree with my reasons? I'm sorry, it was an 11-3 split, a couple hours until EOD, and the person with three votes was someone I think is an active town. Speedchuck isn't lynchable, and I don't have time to shout Sig or Scotty's name from the rafters, and given the "strategy" I've seen on display, I doubt anyone would have gave a damn anyway.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:12 pm They call it CYA or something. Voting for someone while simultaneously predicting that they are town. It's regarded as 'playing it safe'. I think that's what you're being accused of.

Still, this is from the 'Practical Guide to Scumhunting' and may not be applicable in this case. I don't really believe in uniform mafia tells. But I am interested in seeing how people react under pressure.

Oh good, "easy tells" that ignore context and nuance in favor of laziness.

For the record, when people submit bullshit cases against me for reasons of "pressure," I get angry, regardless of alignment. It makes me not want to bother with playing traditional mafia games.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:08 pm
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:01 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:07 pm "Wilgy isn't bad but I'm going to lynch him anyway"

Nah. That doesn't fly.

[VOTE: INH] aubergine

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:09 pm [VOTE: INH] aubergine

I'll add some weight to that.
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:21 pm
Well, fuck all y'all.

Care to make points against me, or is knee-jerk bullshit how things worked over at Pikachu?
Didn't you hear? I'm evil now. I don't have to justify my actions.

No, but seriously. I agreed with Cbob's knee-jerk analysis, and since everyone was voting Wilgy, I figured I'd throw a vote on you to give people something to talk about. I doubt you'll get lynched today, but talking about you is more productive than lynching Wilgy for no reason or complaining about how speed can't be lynched.

Why is Cbob's nonsensical analysis valid? Why is my Wilgy vote bad?

Use your words, people.

[mention]Dragon D. Luffy[/mention]

Care to answer S~V~S's question?

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:58 pm He voted for Wilgy for pretty much the same reasons I did, minus Daisy. Why is it suspish when he does it, but not when I do it?

@insertnamehere Thanks for that post, that is kind of how I felt reading that thread, too. Manipulus Maximus.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:05 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:04 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:03 pm
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:01 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:07 pm "Wilgy isn't bad but I'm going to lynch him anyway"

Nah. That doesn't fly.

[VOTE: INH] aubergine

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:09 pm [VOTE: INH] aubergine

I'll add some weight to that.
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:21 pm
Well, fuck all y'all.

Care to make points against me, or is knee-jerk bullshit how things worked over at Pikachu?
it got us to lynch LC.

SKRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT

LC got us to lynch LC.
And INH is getting us to lynch INH.

If you aren't willing to use logic to build your cases, I'm not going to take them seriously, even if it literally kills me.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:07 pm "Wilgy isn't bad but I'm going to lynch him anyway"

Nah. That doesn't fly.

[VOTE: INH] aubergine

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:09 pm [VOTE: INH] aubergine

I'll add some weight to that.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:21 pm

Well, fuck all y'all.

Care to make points against me, or is knee-jerk bullshit how things worked over at Pikachu?

Alrighty, finally caught up.

Firstly, can someone tell me what the fuck "Bidoof" means?

Secondly, reading through the whole Speedchuck thing feels like randomly tuning into some later season of a heavily-serialized TV show, and trying to mentally fill in the gaps. Unfortunately, despite S~V~S being super duper earnest, I have to side with the dull, boring, rational, Occam's-Razor-y DH and DDL on this one. He's probably where my vote's going tomorrow.

Thirdly, Scotty. [mention]S~V~S[/mention], you were pretty sus of him due to all the Day 5 shenanigans. Here's my perspective. Scotty, JoH, and Sloonei were all desperately pushing towards lynches at any costs at this point in the game, which was tricky due to having no real flips or info to go off of. Their solution seemed to essentially be playing spin-the-bottle with whoever either disagreed with them or hadn't posted in a while. Boomslang, who is my current top civ read, disagreed with them, and has been relentlessly pursued because of it.

Sloonei and Scotty had a case against me, which they themselves admitted was BS. Nevertheless due to a mixture of apathy and inertia, I began picking up votes. I wrote up a case against sig, which was based on actual, y'know, stuff, and that managed to shift their attention.

At the time, I was nervous that a scummeister could be using the pressure towards a lynch with more voters than Pikachu's to frame civilians.

The fact that this push to beat Pikachu's numbers happened at the same time as LC was about to be lynched over there, well, it don't look great.

Out of the three (relatively) hyper-active players pushing towards a lynch, Scotty's the one that looks the worst to me. JoH is dead, and Sloonei has seemingly calmed down a hell of a lot when the button got pressed. Scotty's the one who first made the switch when I protested against my lynch and offered an "easier" alternative.

This is all not to imply that I don't still suspect sig. As I said over at NuCerberus:

Like Quin said, there's a pretty decent chance that in a game this size that's this convoluted, (I know, I'm one to talk) there are multiple baddie teams. Even if sig's "wagon" was bolstered by an attempt to save LC's bacon, that doesn't discount any of my suspicions of him. Plus, sig had an extra life at that time, and I could see a baddie team not really minding bussing a member with two lives to try and save someone else.

Fourthy, Wilgy. I don't think Wilgy is bad. I think Daisy's meta case against him is hollow and kinda judgmental. I don't like Scotty and company latching onto him as an easy target due to his inactivity. The fact that vote after vote has been cast at him today makes me pretty sure we aren't gonna get anything out of his lynch. But, as S~V~S said, the dude's super-busy, and can't be replaced anytime soon. That's enough for me to sigh and add my twig to the Wilgy bonfire. Plus, I'd be super pissed if Boomslang got lynched today.

[VOTE: WILGY] aubergine

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:18 am INH made this post, his only post:

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:12 pm oh good, this game has finally started.

Took it long enough.
Yes it finally started!! Where are you? I could feel your frustration in reading your posts in Cerberus (and reading old posts usually gives me little emotional content). The only post you made during the last lynch was a reiteration of your sig case, then you did not vote. You have been following the sig case since the early game. I would expect you to be eager to present it to a wider audience.

Point taken. Will attempt to catch up today.

oh good, this game has finally started.

Took it long enough.

The Syndicate

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