The Syndicate

Wow, so the "everyone wins" strategy wasn't intended? Uhh, whoops.

My plan was to champion the plan 100% until I got BTSC, or the plan failed. Whichever came first. Hopefully by that point, a fair amount of animals would have been lynched, and they wouldn't really be that big of a problem. Then I would start killing, hoping to either get an animal or Baby's On Fire. Nobody would suspect the guy that was the major proponent of the plan to be the one to destroy it, right?

And then Vompatti singlehandedly ruined everything for literally everyone.

Bravo.

thellama73 wrote:
Silencio

Welcome to Mulholland Drive Mafia.

Roles will go out shortly.

NO HAY BANDA

http://www.fredmckinnon.com/media/iwillsurvive.mp3

http://www.fredmckinnon.com/media/OHolyNight.mp3

why vomps why

why u do dis?

insertnamehere wrote:
Song #6 ~ "On Some Faraway Beach"

This is probably my favorite track out of all of them, but I don't think going here is a very good idea. The synthesizer lends a surprising air of finality to the song, and I'm going to guess that it was the closing track on the album it was originally released with? Regardless of the actual song itself, the lyrics are probably the scariest out of any of them.

"Given the chance
I'll die like a baby
On some far away beach
When the season's over.

Unlikely
I'll be remembered
As the tide brushes sand in my eyes
I'll drift away.

Cast up on a plateau
With only one memory
A single syllable
Oh lie low lie low."

That's the second track to explicitly reference death. And this one also brings back the terrifying existential angst from the damned River! I don't want to find out what Llama bastard has up his sleeve for this place. I'm expecting dead babies and plateaus.

INH'S RANKINGS OF THE LOCATIONS BASED ON THE LYRICS AND GENERAL ATMOSPHERE OF THE SONGS

1. Over Fire Island
2. Taking Tiger Island
3. By This River
4. China my China
5. In Dark Trees
6. On Some Faraway Beach

I knew this damn beach wouldn't be a good idea.

No si orchestra.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:maybe we are actually playing mulholland drive mafia

NO HAY BANDA

thellama73 wrote:
triceratopzeuhl wrote:wonder what tonight will bring

This is making me nervous.

I agree with Juliets that maybe Baby's on Fire thought that MM was an Animal, and I hope for his sake that he was. I'm still sticking to the Plan and voting AP, as per his request.

Well, shit.

Going with Roxy, because at this point, there's no better option.

Congrats Sabie!

2 nights down, 4 to go.

juliets wrote:splints, which team is the mafia?

OBVIOUSLY, anyone who disagrees with Fingersplints is a member of the secret police or the Gestapo, and must be lynched at any cost.

fingersplints wrote:
triceratopzeuhl wrote:
fingersplints wrote: sorry for missing the lynch poll. I would have voted inh for the confrontational tone in his last post to me:
What is the point of that, though? I think you are totally missing the win conditions. If him being confrontational makes you think he is on a particular team, and voting for that team would benefit you & help you achieve win conditions, fine, then explain it here, if that is even how you feel.

Voting due to perceived rudeness while ignoring win conditions entirely screams of pettiness and is probably a disservice to your teammates.
Except I don't know who my teammates are, do I? or what team inh is on... So lynching inh just might complete my win condition, which I am not missing, thanks.

This is where Fingersplints completely devolves into lunacy. Sure, let's just lynch random people, and then we'll all just randomly win! For some reason! Why the fuck not! Is this your strategy for most games?

triceratopzeuhl wrote:Hell, the game is literally called OBLIQUE STRATEGIES. I think a lot of people completely miss the insinuations of that

i.e. that typical mafia tactics (arguing and trying to fabricate lynch cases on random people) will accomplish nothing
It's called "Oblique Strategies - an Eno Mafia" therefore it is still a mafia game. I am not missing that part of the name but you seem to be missing the last. I do not think that it is wrong to think that some mafia should be involved.

OK Fingersplints, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. Is it:

A. This plan is no proper mafia! This entire plan is an insult to the entire concept! The creators of mafia would weep if they saw this tragedy unfolding. Hide you children, hide your wife, INH's plan is literally ruining everything in existence.

B. Maybe there is a super-secret mafia that no one knows about, that wasn't listed in the rules, and hasn't actually killed anyone or done anything, and that Llama hasn't even hinted at. Yeah, that's it.

Either way, what you said makes absolutely no sense. If you can come up with an actual issue with me, or the plan. I'm all ears.

fingersplints wrote:I voted for the beach earlier, but my phone had died so didn't get to explain when i cast it.

sorry for missing the lynch poll. I would have voted inh for the confrontational tone in his last post to me: I don't like your confrontational tone about MY so-called confrontational tone! I'll put it this way, trying to lynch anyone who disagrees with you is an...odd strategy.

I fail to see how not agreeing with your plan because its IMO less fun is insulting the game or underestimating the hosts intelligence. First off, what exactly is it that you find fun about Mafia? Because now I need to know that all my future games and ideas need to fit the Fingersplints Scale of Happy Fun-Time Entertainment, or people will quit and refuse to play. Let me recap: I come up with a plan within the rules of the game for everyone to win, which will be pretty hard to accomplish, which was most likely intended by the host, and you shut it down completely, and refuse to listen to common sense and logic, because it's not "fun" enough. Fair enough, if that's your opinion.

I don't see why llama would explicitly write a game like you propose. Ok, ok, I'll admit it. Not agreeing with my plan because you don't find it... ..."fun" is NOT insulting the game or underestimating the host's intelligence. The statement you just said, however, most definitely is. What is the "mafia" aspect of it then? Seriously? Seriously? Give me a second, is this an actual question you are asking? Seriously?!?!

OK, on this site, The Syndicate, some of the games have an experimental "bent" to them. They mess with the standard vanilla mafia game rules and design and push the limits of the format. Granted, a lot of people do not like those games, and that's a fair enough opinion, but Llama told you what this game would be before you even signed up.

[quote="thellama73"]This will be a somewhat unusual, conceptual game of three teams lasting six days and six nights.

You signed up for this.
There is going to be off-the-wall concepts, and off-the-wall ideas, and if you are offended by the very concept of those two things, and deem them "not fun", then I don't know what to tell you. But this is a game of mafia, and I am playing it. In a crazy way, in a crazy game, yes, but it's still mafia. And acting like my plan is sacrilegious to the very tenets of mafia themselves is pretty ridiculous.[/sarc]

What's the challenge?

Seriously? Seriously? Oh wait, I already did that.

You yourself are disproving your own point. My completely bonkers plan has been met with complete scorn by you, Roxy, SVS, Metalmarsh, and other people. It's made me a target for lynches and nightkills. Remember, if anyone NK's anybody else, or if a single non-animal is lynched, the plan is completely ruined.

So yeah. I'd say this plan is pretty fucking challenging, for me at least.

Maybe everything isn't at face value like you seem to be taking it as.

Maybe everything isn't at face value like you seem to be taking it as.[/quote]

Is anyone else excited for the new Modest Mouse album? Are they OK to like? Will I like, lose music appreciation cred if I admit that they are one of my favorite bands? Oh god, is there like some weird anti-Modest Mouse movement on PA that I don't know about, and by merely invoking their name, I'm ostracizing myself completely from any and all musical discussions in the future? They aren't Prog, right? What the hell even is Prog? Is this Prog?

Is this Prog?

At this point, I'm too scared to ask. I'm in too deep, man. I mean, I love Pink Floyd and Captain Beefheart, but I'd not put them in the same genre. This is what happens when I try to talk about music on this site, I feel hopelessly out of my league. I should really just shut up, and let the adults converse at this point.

Dom wrote:
triceratopzeuhl wrote:I want to believe you rox, but you are making it hard
do you see the irony

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1533036/

yes

@LLAMA Can dead Fellas win if the living Fellas still outnumber the living Animals?

Roxy wrote:Even though we are not supposed to use our abilities at night someone did and has completely affected the way I felt about inh.

Wat. I never said that nobody should use their abilities at night. I only said that the two killers shouldn't. They have the abilities that could completely ruin the plan. And it looks like neither of them did use their powers. So explain the logic behind that "completely affecting" the way you feel about me.

I do not want another Animal outed until the Fellas and Gals have all been outed first - seems like a fair request if you want others to play along.

Seriously? That would be hard to do, convincing every single person to reveal their team and potentially sabotage their own game. Even if every single person revealed what team they were on, and were actually honest, it would probably take a long time to accomplish. That's just not that great of an idea, and would sort of sabotage the entire plan. If someone didn't fully accept the plan, and refused to reveal their team, no Animals could be lynched, the entire plan would be ruined, and that person would have a massive advantage.

Here is another point.

If all of this was unintentional, and "not the way the game was meant to be played", then why would we have the option to out our own team?

Why would anyone else do that unless they were following this plan?

Oh boy. Let me break this one down.

fingersplints wrote:What has already been said sabie. Voting plans rarely actually work, They usually do for me. and this one feels a lot like "cheating the system"... in the event that it actually does work. Seriously? I wouldn't underestimate Llama's intelligence. He's one smart cookie. I don't see any way that Llama didn't write the entire game around the core concept that everyone could win the game if they all work together. The roles, the rules, everything matches up too perfectly for this to be unintentional.

And "animals revealing their team" feels a lot like outing. Once again, THIS IS PART OF THE GAME. THE RULES EXPLICITLY ALLOW THIS. This is not a standard game of mafia. We can out our own team. Idkk I don't like it at all and I don't plan on following it. Is the only pro for this that INH assures us that everyone will win? Read the rules. Read the roles. It makes actual logical sense. It's not just me telling people to do random things and saying that everyone will magically win.

I play to have fun, and if I win yea that's cool too, but I'd rather enjoy doing it and be challenged. Following this voting plan and winning isn't a win for me, I'm sorry.

I'll just quote what I said about SVS.

insertnamehere wrote:
If you wanted to play a standard vanilla game of mafia, you shouldn't of signed up in the first place, and maybe you shouldn't insult the game itself for not being something that you, personally, like.

I don't see how this is not "playing" or not "fun".

Llama more or less explicitly wrote the game so that this could happen, and making it happen is such an immense challenge, that getting it to work is, in my opinion, a fun objective that requires people to "play" the game, but maybe not in the normal way that you "play" a game of mafia.

Roxy wrote:^^^ this
Plus I do not trust inh's motives.

Why would I lie? How has anything I said not been 100% logical and accurate based on the rules? If someone could tell me that, I'd love to respond to it. I'm getting tired of people saying that my "motives" are untrustworthy.

S~V~S wrote:It isn't really "playing", is it? I mean, I like to win, but I like to work for it, too. I am missing how this is "fun", you know? So by volunteering I am essentially quitting a game I sm not really enjoying, while (hopefully) helping those who want an easy, clean win achieve it. It isn't for me, but everyone is different.

Not everyone likes mafia games that are set up in a non-standard way, or take crazy leaps with the concepts of the game. Fair enough, everyone has their own opinions. But insulting Llama and saying that people aren't "playing" the game, and how none of it is fun feels like a slap in the face to those who find the idea behind the game extremely interesting.

In games like these, the main enemy isn't the mafia, or the other players, but the game itself. Trying to figure out the rules and loopholes in the system is immensely entertaining for me personally, but I can see how some people could find it "not fun".

But then again, look at the description for this game.

This will be a somewhat unusual, conceptual game of three teams lasting six days and six nights.

If you wanted to play a standard vanilla game of mafia, you shouldn't of signed up in the first place, and maybe you shouldn't insult the game itself for not being something that you, personally, like.

I don't see how this is not "playing" or not "fun".

Llama more or less explicitly wrote the game so that this could happen, and making it happen is such an immense challenge, that getting it to work is, in my opinion, a fun objective that requires people to "play" the game, but maybe not in the normal way that you "play" a game of mafia.

So yeah. That's what I think.

S~V~S wrote:OK, I think that "winning" by not sending in night actions and volunteering to be lynched is not really *winning*, or even playing, tbh. If i wanted to trust y'all, I would not be playing Mafia.

So I am gonna say I am an animal, and volunteer to be the next sacrifice.

S~V~S wrote:I just realized how that sounds, I am not just saying i am an animal to say it, I really AM an animal

Yeppers.

insertnamehere wrote:Yessss, game!

So, from looking at the roles, it looks like there is a way for everyone to win.

What about this: We only lynch Animals. This would require that the Animals reveal their team. Blank Frank and Baby's on Fire refuse to use their NK. Then, after 6 days and nights, we are left with
6 Gals, who all instantly win, 6 Fellas, who all instantly win, and 6 dead Animals, who (due to the fact that members of their team can win while dead) instantly win also.

It's a win-win-win.

Who's with me? :

FOR FINGERSPLINTS

Black Rock wrote:
Vompatti wrote:Let it be known that I'm strongly against the plan and will prevent it from succeeding at all costs [italics mine].
I don't understand this at all.

Just accept that you probably never will, and move on. That's what I usually do with Vompatti.

Vompatti wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
Vompatti wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
Vompatti wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
Vompatti wrote:it's not ture victory unless someone loses
I'd argue that it's not a true victory unless everyone wins.
you'd argue wrong [stern smile]
Well, maybe you're wrong, you cheeky little shit.
that's a bit harsh k
YOU'RE A BIT HARSH, K?
that's what she said

STOP PEERING INTO MY LIFE, YOU DEMON WOMBAT!

Vompatti wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
Vompatti wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
Vompatti wrote:it's not ture victory unless someone loses
I'd argue that it's not a true victory unless everyone wins.
you'd argue wrong [stern smile]
Well, maybe you're wrong, you cheeky little shit.
that's a bit harsh k

YOU'RE A BIT HARSH, K?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Personally, I feel there's no inherent reason to be a cynic this game given the circumstances, so why be cynical until given a reason to do so?
I'm not gonna stand around and wait for this reason to show up. I'm grabbing this bull by the horns.

I'm an ordinary man, Metalmarsh, meat and potatoes, I live in the real world. I'm not a big believer in magic. But this game is different. It's special. The others don't want to talk about it because it scares them. But we all know it. We all feel it. Is this dream of harmony impossible? Probably. But what if everything that happened here, happened for a reason? What if we can all win? Even if it is impossible, let's say it's not… I don't know. But I've looked into the eyes of Llama. And what I saw was beautiful.

Vompatti wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
Vompatti wrote:it's not ture victory unless someone loses
I'd argue that it's not a true victory unless everyone wins.
you'd argue wrong [stern smile]

Well, maybe you're wrong, you cheeky little shit.

Vompatti wrote:it's not ture victory unless someone loses

I'd argue that it's not a true victory unless everyone wins.

DAMN IT JACK, I'M JUST DOING WHAT THE ISLAND DEMANDS!

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:No one has an incentive to lie, though.

Like I said, assuming every player wants to win, the plan makes the most sense.
It sure does. It is clearly a quite popular and accessible strategy.

But unfortunately, I just don't feel like doing things the mainstream way. Brian Eno wouldn't want this.
Mafia. A game based around people being self-serving and distrustful, and eliminating others in order to win.

Oblique Strategies - an Eno Mafia. A game where everyone can win if they completely set aside all familiar notions of how to play mafia. A game where everyone can win if they just trust other people.

This is the most anti-status quo game I've ever played, and is probably one of my favorite concepts for mafia ever.
Would this still be your favorite if everyone agreed with you and followed through?

Yes.

Has anyone ever seen that movie "The Box"? It's not that great, but it had some ideas that I found really interesting. In the movie, a couple is sent a box with a big red button. If they press the button, they receive one million dollars, but someone that they don't know dies. It turns out *SPOILERS* that the box is sent by omniscient force to see if humanity is worth saving. If a certain amount of people push the button after 24 hours, then the "force" will declare humanity as "hopeless" and destroy the world.

That's what this game reminds me of. If we as a group, as a community can trust each other and put our faith in each other, and still win the game, I'd consider it not only another banner for my signature, but as a philosophical win.

Just this once, optimism can beat out cynicism, and everyone wins.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:No one has an incentive to lie, though.

Like I said, assuming every player wants to win, the plan makes the most sense.
It sure does. It is clearly a quite popular and accessible strategy.

But unfortunately, I just don't feel like doing things the mainstream way. Brian Eno wouldn't want this.

Mafia. A game based around people being self-serving and distrustful, and eliminating others in order to win.

Oblique Strategies - an Eno Mafia. A game where everyone can win if they completely set aside all familiar notions of how to play mafia. A game where everyone can win if they just trust other people.

This is the most anti-status quo game I've ever played, and is probably one of my favorite concepts for mafia ever.

Mongoose wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Mongoose wrote:I mean a win is a win, but it doesn't feel as good as you win on a technicality. And I'd be as sad as a bison if it happened in my game.

BUT for Day 1, this is as good a place as any to start.
What?

What's wrong with it?

If anything, it's completely in the spirit of the game, and I'm certain it's a scenario Llama considered.
It's certainly an oblique strategy!

THIS.

To everyone not wanting to use this strategy, because it would be "ruining Llama's game", you need to step back and read the rules. He clearly wrote the roles and rules around the idea that everyone could win if they were honest and put faith in other people.

THE POINT OF THIS GAME IS TO SEE IF WE CAN ALL UNITE AND TRUST EACH OTHER.

I think it's quite genius. It turns the conventions of mafia based on distrust and deceit on it's head.

Can we as a group, as a community unite so that everyone can win? Or will our selfishness and distrust turn us to sabotage and ruin?

This game is surprisingly philosophical in a way that I've never seen before in a mafia game.

This is a dynamite fucking idea as far as games go, and I wished I would have thought of it first.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Vompatti wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
Vompatti wrote:Killing animals is wrong unless we eat them.
Can I get a Vompatti translator over here?

So, you disagree with the plan? Do you have a reason why?
You have no proof that MP or anyone else claiming to be an animal is an animal. Ergo the plan is flawed!
So if we don't kill an animal, then we kill a liar.

Both are edible.

How am I lying? I could see how I could be called stupid, or even wrong, but how am I lying?

Vompatti wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
Vompatti wrote:Killing animals is wrong unless we eat them.
Can I get a Vompatti translator over here?

So, you disagree with the plan? Do you have a reason why?
You have no proof that MP or anyone else claiming to be an animal is an animal. Ergo the plan is flawed!

Why would MP lie? And do you have anything better to base this lynch off of?

Vompatti wrote:Killing animals is wrong unless we eat them.

Can I get a Vompatti translator over here?

So, you disagree with the plan? Do you have a reason why?

MovingPictures07 wrote:You know, just to show how committed I am to this and how I really think it's the best option for everyone:

I am an Animal.

Feel free to lynch me on Day 1.

That way no one else has to team claim and we can see how this plan is going to play out. I'm willing to sacrifice my life in order to pursue this.

REPOSTING FOR MONGOOSE AND VOMPATTI

insertnamehere wrote:Yessss, game!

So, from looking at the roles, it looks like there is a way for everyone to win.

What about this: We only lynch Animals. This would require that the Animals reveal their team. Blank Frank and Baby's on Fire refuse to use their NK. Then, after 6 days and nights, we are left with
6 Gals, who all instantly win, 6 Fellas, who all instantly win, and 6 dead Animals, who (due to the fact that members of their team can win while dead) instantly win also.

It's a win-win-win.

Who's with me? :

REPOSTING FOR MONGOOSE AND VOMPATTI

**************------------------

INH REVIEWS

------------------**************

Song #1 ~ "Over Fire Island"
A generally upbeat and, dare I say it, peppy vocal-less track that has a bit of a sinister edge due to what sounds like a foreign radio transmission cutting in randomly. What is the Fire Island? How are we over it? Are we like on a plane or some shit? Maybe the radio transmissions are like being picked on an airplane? I don't fucking know.

Song #2 ~ "In Dark Trees"
A dark and somewhat haunting track that feels like a soundtrack for an action movie. But, the track as a whole is kind of ruined by this one guy going apeshit with a woodblock. You can just hear this guy wailing away on this damn woodblock with no rhythm or rhyme. Just random woodblock. I'm imagining Eno dressed like Christopher Walken yelling at the top of his lungs "I'VE GOT A FEVER, AND THE ONLY CURE IS MORE WOODBLOCK!" Overall, a dark and energetic track. Not high on my list of places to go.

Song #3 ~ "By This River"
A slow and relaxing electronic ballad with some soft synth playing over some of Eno's vocals. If it wasn't for the lyrics, I'd choose this place in a heartbeat.

"Here we are
Stuck by this river
You and I
Underneath a sky that's ever falling down, down, down
Ever falling down

Through the day
As if on an ocean
Waiting here
Always failing to remember why we came, came, came
I wonder why we came"

You can just imagine Llama waiting to post "I wonder why we came" when we eventually go the this river. The river doesn't seem to be a very happy river. Can rivers have existential angst, because this song is over-flowing with it!

Ha ha ha. I'm so fucking funny.

Song #4 ~ "Taking Tiger Mountain"

Jesus fuckin' Christ this song is monotonous. It's 5:33 long, and you feel every second of it. Looking at the lyrics, it seems intentional.

"We climbed and we climbed,
Oh, how we climbed
My, how we climbed
Over the stars to [the] top
[Of] Tiger Mountain
Forcing the lines through the snow."

I feel like the song does its job of imitating a long laborious climb too well, as this track is a chore to sit through. The one thing that I liked about the song was how nature was incorporated. As the song goes on and on, and you "climb" the mountain, you can hear more wind and mountain-y sounds. I thought that was relatively clever, but it still doesn't justify the existence of the track as anything other than filler. The mountain itself seems like a more or less safe place with a low level of existential angst. This is an option I'll give some consideration to.

Song #5 ~ "China my China"

This song flows much better, and is centered around Eno's vocals. Now, Eno isn't exactly world-renowned for his voice, and you can easily hear why, but they do the job and communicate the odd stilted critique of China that the lyrics are about.

"In the haze of the morning, China sits on Eternity
And the opium farmers sell dreams to obscure fraternities
On the horizon the curtains are closing

Down in the orchard the aunties and uncles play their games
(like it seems they always have done)
In the blue distance the vertical offices bear their names
(like it seems they always have done)
Clocks ticking slowly, dividing the day up

These poor girls are such fun they know what God gave them their fingers for

(to make percussion over solos)"

The part that kind of makes me hesitant to choose this place is this:

I remember a man who jumped out from a window over the bay
(there was hardly a raised eyebrow)
The coroner told me 'This kind of thing happens every day'
You see, from a pagoda, the world is so tidy.

That's pretty fucking ominous for this option, and I don't want to visit China anytime soon.

Song #6 ~ "On Some Faraway Beach"

This is probably my favorite track out of all of them, but I don't think going here is a very good idea. The synthesizer lends a surprising air of finality to the song, and I'm going to guess that it was the closing track on the album it was originally released with? Regardless of the actual song itself, the lyrics are probably the scariest out of any of them.

"Given the chance
I'll die like a baby
On some far away beach
When the season's over.

Unlikely
I'll be remembered
As the tide brushes sand in my eyes
I'll drift away.

Cast up on a plateau
With only one memory
A single syllable
Oh lie low lie low."

That's the second track to explicitly reference death. And this one also brings back the terrifying existential angst from the damned River! I don't want to find out what Llama bastard has up his sleeve for this place. I'm expecting dead babies and plateaus.

INH'S RANKINGS OF THE LOCATIONS BASED ON THE LYRICS AND GENERAL ATMOSPHERE OF THE SONGS

1. Over Fire Island
2. Taking Tiger Island
3. By This River
4. China my China
5. In Dark Trees
6. On Some Faraway Beach

@Llama Can Blank Frank and Baby's on Fire choose not to use their NK?

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