The Syndicate

reywaS wrote:I thought juliets was civ for sure...well played. I had major doubts about Dex, though, toward the end. We tried to kill Dex one night before MP and Vomp were lynched.

It just so happened that we used our one time only team protection the night you tried to kill Dex. We were very lucky.

I felt TERRIBLE during this game because so many people thought i was good. I didn't want to be in any more of those bts groups because i had to pretend i was good the whole time. I am not cut out to be a baddie.

Team - Kate, Dex, BWT, we had an awesome time - great teammates you guys were. Russ and Roxy i felt terrible guilty and kept telling myself "you're a baddie you have to do this".

SVS great speed game! Loved it.

Ok 8 minutes to game time so I have to vote. I have thought about this way too long today. Early in the game I thought AATB's reaction to me voting for him was noobie related. Since some of this more recent activity however i've had to rethink how I view things that have happened in the game and I think I might have been wrong about why he reacted the way he did. When i put that together with my thoughts about the llama evidence I come out with the decision to vote FH. I hope I am right, because now I almost feel like the FH vote has become LT-like. votes FH

I really want some input from Russ because i think he's the only one who hasn't commented, but I have to vote early (before 7:30) because I run Jeopardy at 7:30. I'm considering Flying High as an alternative to llama because my doubts about him have just grown since the day started.

FH i wish you could explain a little more what is compelling to you about the llama argument. Also, I too wonder about the question A Team brings up. I know you're in the mountains though and may not even see this until after the vote but I thought i'd put it out here just in case.

The A Team wrote:Yes Kate there could other reasons. But have you actually read his posts? He is all over the map. Didn't want to lynch MP at first didn't want to lynch Vomps. If there was a recruit to MP's team I posit that it would be llama.

Thanks A Team for adding to the discussion something I did not address, that llama didn't want to lynch these two to begin with. I'm going to review those instances for my own reference.

Also, everyone I'm glad we've got some discussion going. It's helpful for me maybe for others too.

I'm hoping to not get into another LT 2.0 situation where we all agree on someone (almost all) and that person turns out to be civv. There's been a lot of talk about llama here in the last few (real) days so yesterday I went through the thread and found the places where llama was accused of something so I could put them all together and see what I thought. As I wrote things down I didn't evaluate whether i agreed or not or whether the accusation was factually correct or not, I just listed the item.

1. voted auger - Roxy also seemed to have a passionate belief he was bad
2. said he thought MP was good
3. brought up Roxy's name for lynch
4. MP felt llama voted Roxy quickly after MP had just brought her up as a possibility
5. MP not sure about llama
6. Posts have a different tone than MOTU
7. llama insanified
8. Voted for LT
9. Not very much to his posts
10. response to reywas about the insanification
11. suspicious of He Man but not enough evidence to back his vote
12. something feels off
13. Roxy, Reywas, LT all had llama as their last big suspicion

Then I went back and looked at the things listed and just want to comment on a few.
1. Roxy had a lot of passion around llama, more so than i saw anywhere else and seemingly more than it was worth for an auger vote. Seemed to be a lot of passion just because of the auger. Was there something else there that she couldn't share about that auger selection?

2. Said he thought MP was good - this was early on and I'm not sure we can really hold this against him. Wasn't it too early to be recruited yet?

3. MP accused llama of voting too quickly after he mentioned Roxy and MP didn't feel sure about llama. I'm not sure which way to count this evidence. Was MP trying to distance (again, was there time for llama to be recruited?) or was MP trying to cast suspicion meaning llama was not on his team.

2. Posts have a different tone than MOTO and his posts seem off. How is his tone different? I may be wrong but I don't see the difference in his tone but if those that see it could help me with this I might buy into it more.

3. llama wasn't insanified or team insanified. I don't really understand this accusation. What makes people think this was a fake? Is it because there is other evidence that makes him seem bad therefore this follows on that?

4. Voted for LT - a lot of us voted for LT but maybe this is just adding a small piece of data to what already exists.

5. Roxy, Reywas, and LT all had llama as their last big suspicion. This seems to me to be saying "three people suspected him the most and then died". That would work in the case of Roxy and Reywas because they were nightkilled but LT was lynched. Or does it mean "three people suspected him the most" and it doesn't matter if they died? I'm a little twisted up by this one, i.e., not sure I understand the accusation.

So where I come out on llama is I am uneasy. On the one hand, maybe the fact that there are a lot of different suspicions even though some of them are small add up to a baddie. On the other hand, some of the things like the insanification suspicion just don't make sense to me yet. I'm not saying I won't vote for llama but I'm hoping during the discussion today people can comment on some of these things that make me uneasy. Or, maybe i have left out some big things, big picture items that I overlooked while digging in the detail. I hope we can have a good discussion today.

Gosh I'm sorry this is so long.

oh no! what happened? rip He Man and boo - and I'm off to re-read the roles

dang, linki with bwt & snow dog

I am voting Alf

RIP LT - I totally was off the mark on how i read this situation, I'm sorry.

I see no one giving me a devils advocate response to LT being bad so I'm going with my decision to vote for her. *votes LT*

I am still considering LT for this lynch today. She's the one I feel strongest about at this point. Does anyone besides LT see anything strong or have any thoughts as to why LT should not be voted for? I'm trying to see if there is someone who can be devil's advocate in case I've missed something.

oh "poor reywas" is right . A day and a night of gibberishy stuff and then he's deaded. RIPIYWG Reywas!

(As SVS wanted us to say good bye in your native tongue, I join her in saying, heyou ywang, ha haS, her ywand your her waS, mon paqve ywe lid haS, your mon a lin sing, aS, te on mong, aS, side aS, lideteywe you bethon he herng, lind wand wer lide re waS. And i really mean that.)

S~V~S wrote:

Dex wrote:I probably should have bolded this before:

S~V~S: Will you tell us if a mafia team has been eliminated?

I saw it the first time; a philosophical question for you~ is silence in bold any less silent? I normally do not answer questions like this in the thread, only via PM, but since I did not say so specifically in the rules, and many people I have not hosted previously are playing: If a baddie team is lynched to death, yes, I would. If it is NKed to death, I probably would not.

Russtifinko wrote:
S~V~S, to add to Dex's question, if a baddie team has been eliminated, does their NK go away?

No, it just joins its brother with the other team, who will then kill nightly.

So if I'm reading this correctly, since we've lynched both baddies from one team we must not be finished with that team or SVS would have told us it was eliminated. Ugh.

I've got to re-read and think about where to go next. boo one question I have about your list is have you decided the inh post, his leaving, and LT's reaction to people looking her way doesn't warrant looking at LT? I'm thinking maybe you've seen something that I didn't notice to lead you to believe she was good. I know you're not definitely saying she must be good, that it's just your best guess with the info you've got - can you share what you've seen or maybe its what you haven't seen?

Also, I'm going with Billie Jean or more importantly Michael Jackson to represent the 80's.

linki

Yippee! Excellent result everyone! He was just who we thought he was.

Every time I come in it seems like something strange has happened! This time vomps voted for himself, which for me kind of clinches it. I can't think of a lynch switch action that the person knows about before it occurs so I think Vompatti is just dancing around on those questions. Anyway, I'm going to go ahead and vote Vompatti based on the reasons I talked about earlier and what has happened since.

To me, the vote for MP that looks like an attempt at a save, MP's mention of Vompatti, and this latest craziness of his own admission that he's who he would think is bad (I think that's what he's saying) still leave me leaning toward Vompatti. I may have missed something but these are the big things that stand out in my mind right now.

Also,fyi I've got my head in a course on Sarbanes-Oxley, you accountants should know how complex that is, and I may not be back in today before I vote.

Vompatti wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Russtifinko wrote: Are people pretty sure now that llama was faking insanification? If that's true I think he needs to go, and better sooner than later.

What makes you think I was faking?

I was going to ask the same question. I don't understand where this suspicion comes from.

I don't think he faked it, but it did make him seem like a civ to me, so I dunno.

Vompatti, who are you looking at today for the lynch?

Thanks LT.

Here is the voting order I got from the thread for yesterday. Let me know if you see something that is wrong.

MP - llama(1), dex(2), kate(3), reywas(4), vompatti(5), juliets(6), bwt(7), boo(9)
BWT - russtifinko(8)
AATB - snow dog(10)
llama - He Man(11), Little Tiger(12), MP(13)

Kate wrote:Does anyone have the poll from yesterday?

Kate, I've also asked for this and not gotten it so I'm in the process of going back through the votes. I'll post what I get.

LittleTiger, I figured out the Vompatti thing. I was looking at the wrong quote. The right one was blatant just like you said. Also, maybe you didn't see my earlier question regarding the reasons you find llama suspicious? Others voted for you besides him so what is it you see that causes you to be suspicious of him over the others?

Naturally, I don't get the role hint. I never do

Oh i just realized you are saying you could prove it if you are around long enough in the game. I misunderstood.

Vompatti wrote:

The A Team wrote:That Vomps sure is trickstery - posting poems does NOT give you bonus civvie points. How about you respond to some of these posts against you instead of just bumping and grinding?

I am voting for Vompatti or llama today I hope others can help me decide which is best - but I really want one of them dead more than the other!

There was a specific reason for posting the poem, but that's about as much as I can say about it, apart from that I'm a civilian and I think I might be able to prove it if you keep me here long enough.

That's interesting vomps. Is there something we or A Team needs to do to keep you here long enough to prove to us you are civv? I'm leaning your direction this lynch so i want all the information thats available before i vote.

LittleTiger wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

LittleTiger wrote:RIP Roxy

Feels good to be back!

So, one of my top suspects is llamaboy

any reason?

yeah... he voted me in my last life!

LT, were there any other reasons you see llama as your top suspect? Several people voted for you so I figure there must be something else about llama that you are seeing to make you think he is bad. I read back on your posts but couldn't find anything, apologies if I overlooked it.

Flyin' High wrote:Okay, I have mostly gotten caught up on this game. For a speed game ya'll sure post a lot!

@Russ: Yes I do have a nice spreadsheet template, it is similar to the one MP posted, but has a few more categories. I'll upload it in a bit when I have some time tonight.

I would also like a copy.

boo wrote:

Dex wrote:One down, three to go! (Sorry MP, some day I'll get to see you play civ.) I was wrong about the affiliation but I'm OK with that.

As for his associate, of the four I'm suspecting Kate and Vomp voted for him and He-Man and Rusty Finko voted elsewise, making the latter two more suspect to my way of thinking.

I'm fairly confident vomp is his teammate, and that's probably where my vote is going tomorrow. It was pretty well clinched by the time he voted MP, and his D2 vote made ZERO sense as he said it was either me or MP (a split decision which made no sense), and it was the deciding vote in that lynch.

First, YAY my uneasiness well well founded! Goodbye MP, always good to play with you.

Second, I agree with boo, Vompatti tops my list and right now he's the best bet for me for a vote tomorrow. Still plenty of time for other stuff to develop but thats where i sit right now.

Also, I'm going with Motley Crue.

And I was running Jeopardy when the vote ended so I couldn't get the vote order. Does anyone have it?

I have to go ahead and vote so i can start getting ready for jeopardy. I appreciate your reply MP and I wish I could say my uneasiness is gone but it's not. I'm voting MP


Also MP, you're probably too mad at me to care but the CE's I am doing are to keep my Senior Professional Human Resources certificate from expiring. I procrastinated and now have to do about 30 courses in about 2 1/2 months. I will be doing this everyday.

I continue to be uneasy about MP. The anger after finding out votes were going his way just seemed out of character, more like he staged it to seem like a frustrated civv. MP, I won't vote for you without listening to your response to this.

And now like MP I have to go do a course or 2 for my own certification.

RIP Roxy - We need a crying smiley.

Welcome LittleTiger, and goodbye again INH.

reywaS wrote:I would also agree with the suspicion of inh. I've seen this type of act from him before when he was bad.

reywas, anything in particular that he did in the other game that reminds you of this one? I'm still pinged by his post day 1.

Happy Birthday Snow Dog!

MovingPictures07 wrote:

juliets wrote:I could go either INH or MP. MP I was feeling ok about until Roxy's posts and I do see the double standard between getting on her case for voting a random among fisherman picket and auger voters vs his random between his 2 suspicions. Also, I reread his vote for LT and it was based on her not being genuine with her getting the time mixed up but in my opinion she came off completely genuine. And his reaction to being voted or I guess that was his defense didn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

That said, there are good reasons to vote inh in my opinion and he was my first choice this morning. Trouble is he hasn't been here to defend himself and I'm worried that my vote would be a throw away vote.

I'll wait a bit longer and make a decision.

Also, I wanted to address this, but didn't have much time at the time. Double standard, really? I realize I am occasionally guilty of holding people to a double standard, and I probably did this with Rox, but you don't think that I'm being held to a double standard here?

To me, LT did not necessarily seem genuine. That's it. You obviously thought otherwise so you didn't vote LT. How does that make me baddie?

MP, I'm trying to figure out how I might have held you to a double standard. I may have but I certainly did not mean to do so.

On the LT timing issue, to my way of thinking this is part of what mafia is all about. I thought she sounded totally genuine, you thought she did not. I thought she was obviously genuine and it should have been apparent, therefore I was pinged that you didn't. You have crazy good mafia skills and I thought you should have seen it. Maybe I'm wrong about that but its how it felt at the time.


On AATB, my initial reaction to his overreaction was that he is new and doesn't yet understand that you need to let day 1 votes roll off your back. Further convincing me was his switcheroo which was blatant - you voted for me so i'm voting for you. I didn't think an experienced player would ever do that. It does bother me though that he missed the second vote so at this point he didn't make a "real" vote on day 1 and didn't make any vote on day 2, leaving us with not a lot to look at. Sometimes absence of behavior (not voting) can be evidence. With that said though, I still lean toward noob but with an eye open.

And finally, Mythbusters ftw! I'm voting Duct Tape.

I have some things to take care of this afternoon and will probably not be in the thread for most of the afternoon.

juliets wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Sorry for so much posting, but does anyone have reads on He Man or Vompatti as well? I'm not sure what to make of either of them at all.

Linki with BWT: His vote on Day 1 was a vote for juliets after she voted for him (switcheroo) and he seemed pretty peeved that he even got a vote for little participation, which I found just a bit strange since it hardly made him a lynch candidate (comparable to Boomslang in MOTU how he seemed a bit too overdefensive). Not sold on that, but it did strike me a bit odd. Additionally, he is still laying a bit low and no one is mentioning him at all, and he still seems a bit overdefensive with what he posted after today's lynch to llama. I don't know.

I feel least strong about him of the five I listed, honestly, but I can't help but shake those couple of gut pings. Knowing that we both know him IRL as well, what do you think of him?

MP, did you mean AATB instead of BWT? Also, I will respond to your post tomorrow morning when I'm not so tired.

I'm so tired I read the post wrong - you were just linki with BWT. Obviously, I should not be on here, lol. Will respond to all in the morning.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Sorry for so much posting, but does anyone have reads on He Man or Vompatti as well? I'm not sure what to make of either of them at all.

Linki with BWT: His vote on Day 1 was a vote for juliets after she voted for him (switcheroo) and he seemed pretty peeved that he even got a vote for little participation, which I found just a bit strange since it hardly made him a lynch candidate (comparable to Boomslang in MOTU how he seemed a bit too overdefensive). Not sold on that, but it did strike me a bit odd. Additionally, he is still laying a bit low and no one is mentioning him at all, and he still seems a bit overdefensive with what he posted after today's lynch to llama. I don't know.

I feel least strong about him of the five I listed, honestly, but I can't help but shake those couple of gut pings. Knowing that we both know him IRL as well, what do you think of him?

MP, did you mean AATB instead of BWT? Also, I will respond to your post tomorrow morning when I'm not so tired.

Based on what I see in the roles, I say Yay! No lynch!

MovingPictures07 wrote:I don't see why I even bother arguing the way I do about randomizing or anything. Maybe from now on I'll just randomize every Day 1 vote and that way I won't get unfairly lynched half the time and people won't be able to tell either way. Apparently, that makes more sense than actually trying to catch baddies and discussing.

Maybe this would be a good discussion to have outside of a game where it can be such a lightning rod and also where people on the sidelines are more comfortable saying how they feel about it. It's just not a discussion we should have on any more day 1's, in my opinion.

Ok, I've got to vote now so I can get on with dinner and I'm going to vote for MP.

*votes MP*

I could go either INH or MP. MP I was feeling ok about until Roxy's posts and I do see the double standard between getting on her case for voting a random among fisherman picket and auger voters vs his random between his 2 suspicions. Also, I reread his vote for LT and it was based on her not being genuine with her getting the time mixed up but in my opinion she came off completely genuine. And his reaction to being voted or I guess that was his defense didn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

That said, there are good reasons to vote inh in my opinion and he was my first choice this morning. Trouble is he hasn't been here to defend himself and I'm worried that my vote would be a throw away vote.

I'll wait a bit longer and make a decision.

Kate wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:LT randomizing was odd, and the fact that she's around, and therefore doesn't have the excuse of not being around to vote early. That, and her crazy posts, make me suspect her. Also, what's up with He-Man apparently defending her only because "It's her birthday."

I am an avid Survivor watcher, and a strategy that I have seen being used is that of claiming it to be his/her birthday in order to gain sympathy.

Because of this, I'm voting for her.

Here's one example. Lt had already said she voted early by accident, thus INH's argument that "she's around" doesn't really hold water.

Not to mention, that it was obviously her birthday.

This post pinged me too. I think I even said something about the birthday thing in the thread, it seemed so ridiculous for him to state that. And the point about LT already having said she voted early by accident also made this post odd. I can see an INH vote at this point in the day.

Well, we can at least try asking if there were missing pm's. Won't tell us definitively if the kill was missing and based on her warning she might not tell us but I'm willing to try:

S~V~S were there any missing pm's last night?

llama, I noticed Ticking Bomb also has secrets. Couldn't this also apply to the Snow Dog situation? Assuming of course that hint is even true.

thellama73 wrote: It's hard to know. If it comes from a player, it is no more valuable than any of the other opinions expressed in this thread. If it comes from SVS, it is a different matter.

Generally the way these things work there is some information that is true and some that is false. Figuring out which is which is the hard part.

Also, Chemistry Book if you think MP is creepy in this game go read him in the other game. Creepy is as creepy does.

Thanks for your response MP and I see what you are saying, makes sense.

wow linki linki linki

MovingPictures07 wrote:

reywaS wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

reywaS wrote:I'm voting Snow Dog.

Extremely opportunistic vote there for LT.

Same goes for you. I'll have to remember this next vote

LMAO. Yeah, you go ahead and do that, Snow Dog. I'm pretty sure we've got a baddie in you, sir.

I agree that Snow Dog and INH look most likely to be baddie at this point, just going off of how the lynch/votes went down. I'm not sold on either of them, but you seem pretty confident here. What do you think about INH, boo, or juliets?

You are including me with inh and boo which tells me you find me suspicious. Can you elaborate?

Also, the hair product I run out of first is the volumizer or mousse so I'm voting for that.

linki Russtifinko

thellama73 wrote:I wasn't around when the poll closed. Can someone post the results?

Ditto. Please? With sugar on top? (used by us southerners when we really want your help)

Oh geez I never watched MacGyver though I've heard all about it. Are all of these items about equal in terms of the frequency he used them on the show?

Also, clever thought Kate!

AllAlongTheBoardwalk wrote:
This is such a cop-out. Why exactly is being a low poster at this point such a problem? You're basically trying to justify just throwing a lynch vote away. Votes Juliets

A low poster could be someone who is avoiding conversation in order not to be noticed and thus not voted for. You will also hear people use the term 'flying low' for someone who posts the minimal amount and doesn't add anything to the discussions.

And what you did right here is called a "switcheroo" which means voting for someone just because they voted for you. Also a baddie tactic.

So normally I would think this makes you more suspicious but I do see how new you are so maybe you didn't know.

Also, RIP LT it's very sad to see you go. And welcome to the "I got lynched on my birthday" club.

insertnamehere wrote:LT randomizing was odd, and the fact that she's around, and therefore doesn't have the excuse of not being around to vote early. That, and her crazy posts, make me suspect her. Also, what's up with He-Man apparently defending her only because "It's her birthday."

I am an avid Survivor watcher, and a strategy that I have seen being used is that of claiming it to be his/her birthday in order to gain sympathy.

Because of this, I'm voting for her.

Of course its her birthday. Why didn't you just ask us?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Okay, well, here's where I'm at. Unfortunately, I have to vote now; class starts in just over a half hour.

Boo's behavior was a bit weird in that he seemed incredibly fixated on voting BWT who had not shown and there was still plenty of discussion to be had. LT's early vote seems a bit weird, and I'm not sure I buy that it was because she mixed up the poll times, although it could be a genuine mistake. Additionally, Rox's behavior to try to get some sort of response out of me with my reasoning behind my Day 0 vote, as well as her reasoning for her planned vote today (randomized based off of fisherman and auger voters only) and her recent posts about randomizing just don't make sense to me and make me wonder if she did have info regarding the Day 0 poll.

That being said, I don't feel confident at all any of those players are even baddie at this point, but that's what I've noticed. I think it's too early to be going after low posters or no shows, personally, since I do have those three observations.

I also don't feel any of these people are pinging me particularly strongly, so I'm randomizing among the three names (well, two, since Rox is not on the poll), and I got LT.

votes LittleTiger

MP I am using your post as a springboard for my vote because you touch on the significant debates for the day today.

Regarding boos behavior, I went back and read the post he is getting all the heat on and in my opinion he clearly says he is probably going to vote BWT if nothing else interesting comes up:

boo wrote:BWT is the only one who hasn't posted yet I believe. So if that doesn't change before I need to vote and nothing interesting comes up I'll probably vote for him.

It seemed to me that after this statement people were assuming he had or was absolutely going to vote BWT but that is not what I read here. Also, MP had not announced at this point that BWT was in Virginia. This statement plus his later one just did not read to me as "incredibly fixated" on BWT so I don't see a boo vote today. Maybe later in retrospect.

I do believe LT was genuine in her mistake about the poll times. And I've seen this argument about randomizing vs. finding a reason even if its just a slight ping in more than one game. I think it's all about people's opinions because I have never seen any stats showing what is true. My gut is that one is just like the other, both are attempts to deal with a very difficult vote. So, i don't condemn her for randomizing and believe she did it early by mistake.

As for Roxy, so far she just looks like normal Roxy to me and nothing about her tripped any wires for me.

So I'm looking at the people who haven't been around and I think Kate (I think it was Kate) brings up a good point about someone new being more likely to be quiet and bad as the game begins. Using that reasoning, I'm going to vote for AATB today for his lack of presence discussing the issues.

oh gosh, lots of linki and other people voting others for other reasons. I'm going ahead with my vote though.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Well, I'm not too sure who to vote at this point, but I'll have to before I leave for night class.

Not sure why you are so dead set against a randomiser. With absolutely nothing else to go on how does one vote? It is a shame for anyone to leave the game so early.

Let me explain it this way.

A randomizer is basing your vote off of absolutely nothing, thereby leaving it to odds. If you are a civvie in this game, for example, and then there are 11 other civvies and 4 baddies. All you're doing is giving the randomizer a list of those names and letting it choose for you, and your odds are 4 out of 15.

Not only does that discourage discussion of who is suspicious, but it allows the baddies to sneak by in Day 1 votes by saying they're going to "randomize", when in reality they're likely voting for someone they know isn't on their team. When asked to explain why, they just can say they were randomizing.

It completely absolves a baddie of their reasoning behind their vote, which is very disadvantageous as you can often catch baddies by their voting habits. Not only that, but it can allow discussion to go unsaid and it leaves everything to random chance.

The only thing worse than a randomized vote is a self-vote, IMO.

Linki with others

MP if I'm remembering correctly you are ok with voting a low poster as that is a reason versus complete randomizing. When I randomize on day 1 it is usually among low posters.