The Syndicate

I would probably vote Zebra if I didn't have to hold onto my vote for self-preservation (and if Zebra were on the poll). I think Canuck's case was excellent. GlorfinDaisy is right up there though.

Two people voted me without providing any reasons at all.

Matt wrote:Sooooo

What does everyone think of DFaraday?

Just ISO'd him after Roxy had him on her sus list. On day 2, when Bass and Enrique were tied at 5 votes a piece, DFaraday puts a third vote on Roxy (a civ). The day bcornett was lynched, DF throws his vote on Bubbles (despite sussing BCornett way earlier in the game for an interaction he had with Golden. Which by the way, I don't think DF ever brings up again). The day Enrique is officially lynched, DF puts his vote on Simon (a civ). Helped lynch Simon a day later.

I dunno. Someone else ISO this guy and look at his poll records, what do you think?

In recent games I've made it a point not to follow bandwagons unless I was legitimately convinced by whatever case is made on the top vote getter. That's why my votes are so often apart from the group. I wasn't convinced enough about Enrique to vote him (and I don't really recall how I felt about bcornett, but I guess my suspicion of him wasn't that strong at that point.

MacDougall wrote:

DFaraday wrote:Ackbar was the civvie lynch switch, and I find it unlikely that there would be two civvies who could do that. Therefore, I believe this was more likely to be the work of baddies (Palpatine?), and I don't see why a baddie team would use a lynch switch to save someone not on their team, just to frame that same person. The obvious explanation is that MP is bad and his team saved him.

I still suspect Daisy, but I think she was right about this, at least.

"Having experienced many political, martial, and interpersonal scenarios, Leia Organa can use any non-secret Rebel Alliance action once."

Come to think of it, if Leia is alive then it's getting to the point where she'd have to start using the more random roles.

Tbh it's more likely it was was Leia than the bad guys. At least we know for sure that Leia can do that.

Hmm, you're right, I totally missed that. It doesn't necessarily clear MP, though, it would just mean Leia thinks he's civ.

Ackbar was the civvie lynch switch, and I find it unlikely that there would be two civvies who could do that. Therefore, I believe this was more likely to be the work of baddies (Palpatine?), and I don't see why a baddie team would use a lynch switch to save someone not on their team, just to frame that same person. The obvious explanation is that MP is bad and his team saved him.

I still suspect Daisy, but I think she was right about this, at least.

I'm not necessarily opposed to an MP lynch, but I think Daisy is likely to be bad, so her quickly jumping on MP makes him look slightly better to me.

I will be voting Daisy, and will try to look into the Zebra case later.

Mac: I'm not bad, and cannot hire anyone for anything.

What the heck, I'll do one PULL

I voted Roxy since I never really lost suspicion of her, her statement means she is either bad or causing disruption for the town, and I don't like how many votes Mac has taken.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also, DF, what reminds you of Gentlemen's Guide, re: Dom, specifically?

His posts this game have tended to be vague and noncommittal. I haven't gone back to check, but I also can't remember Dom really suspecting anyone beyond throwing an eye their way.

Daisy, I get lynched in the majority of games I play for being blendy, so it's not as if non-outspoken players get a free ride.

As for Dom, I'll need to go over his posts later, but his play this game kind of feels like his play in Gentleman's Guide, where he was bad.

EBWOP: Thanks MP.

Okay, Glorfindel:

Early on Glorfindel gets pretty defensive of quiet players, with little provocation.

Glorfindel wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

bcornett24 wrote:You have votes from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), Dragon D. Luffy (14), nijuukyugou (15), Golden (18), Sorsha (22) as of right now.

Of those only 2 have actually read the thread. There has been little to no activity from Dom (5), Roxy (7), Glorfindel (13), nijuukyugou (15), or Sorsha (22).

So that brings me to my next point. Elo said yesterday she believed most mafiosos were among lurkers.

I'm sorry but an assertion like this is borderline absurd. I've yet to play in a Mafia game yet where this happened. This is without much doubt one of the lamest attempts at diverting attention to somewhat hapless new players I've seen. Sure, we're a little disoriented playing with people and rules with which we are largely unfamiliar and it's easy to make us look guilty. I'd be really surprised if any of the experienced non-Mafia players here would take any of this seriously and further, it REALLY does little for the credibility of the person making such assertions.

Glorfindel wrote: I suspect my friend that we may be well on the road to common ground here. I do appreciate your point about inactive players 'lurking' but from my experience, if inactive newbie players are drawn Mafia (I thought someone said in the sign-up thread that doesn't usually happen here ) they end up slipping up themselves sooner or later. What I think should be a higher priority is:

a) those experienced players that suddenly drop off the radar (unfortunately, I've no experience from playing with all but one of you so in so far as this category is concerned, I've got nothin') and

b) those players that post a lot about their suspicions and make extensive commentary about players. I personally see that as subtle manipulation of the vote and an experienced player in that position represents to me, a clear and present danger.

Given his attitude re: low posters, this bit is interesting:

Glorfindel wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Not a good result. RIP Bass.

I've skimmed quickly. Don't have time for a detailed catchup this morning.

For now, I have the following thoughts:

1) Glorfindel, you're suspicious based on tone as well as the lack of thoughts you espew. Also, your Day 2 vote stinks

You call that a thought? A comedy routine more likely. Just how pray tell is my tone suspicious? And MY Day 2 vote stinks? At least I made one which is more than I can say for a lot of players this game and yet you target me? Again? My vote wasn't on one of our power roles nor was it on what is looking to me like an increasingly Town-looking Enrique... I expect we'll find out soon enough then. You don't know that Russtifinko isn't non-Town (whatever they're called) so for you to criticise my vote just makes you look like you're grasping at straws and pretty transparently at that...

It sounds a bit like deflecting towards the low posters he was previously standing up for.

Glorfindel continued an inexplicable fixation on Russ for several days, made all the stranger given that he seemed to think Russ was Indy.

MM does an ISO on Glor (also bringing up the point about the low posters), and Glor basically laughs it off, not even attempting a defense. From that point forward he seems to get more defensive, ultimately accusing several players of being a clique who won't vote each other. I'm not sure what to make of that, but it could be a baddie who's feeling cornered and falling apart.

Overall I'm leaning baddie on Glorfindel.

Alright, Sig has pretty consistently voted for Enrique, and voted early on two of those occasions, so that's a good look for him. Although as others pointed out Enrique's two-faced comment could suggest teammates, depending on whether or not Enrique knew his team.

He leans slightly civ on Bcornett, then says Bcornett is pingy and Sig needs to reread him, but ultimately votes Glorfindel instead. That could be read as mild baddie distancing.

sig wrote: Know this is just guesswork, but the Emperor (non BTSC and not responsible for submitting kill) could be active this means out of the other three Stormtrooper, Vader, and Grand Moff whoever was responsible for the kill was inactive. No planet have been exploded, but they could just be waiting. So I've seen a few set ups, either a specific player must submit there kill, any mafia member, or instead of using an ability the mafia kills. The third fits my theory the best. This could mean all three members are MIA or at least missed night 2. In theory if someone else was poisoned Vader could be a poisoner and decided to poison instead of kill. However, what is Vader known for? Force Choke so I'm thinking he has an enforcing/silencing ability.
IF it is silencing well no one has been silenced leading me to think Vader is still inactive. While Stormtrooper/Grand Moff is our killer this time.

sig wrote:Since I don't learn my lesson I'm going to say the same thing I did in LC game. :P

It could be either the Empire is among top poster, Macs idea which has some credence, or they are targeting low posters to not leave a trail. They need them to be dead anyway andSavage was posting enough he wasn't in danger of being Mod killed. They need these players dead and at this point if a high poster is killed and they so much as mentioned a member of their team said team mate could be lynched. Something especially if it is just one or two active players they would no doubt be trying to avoid. We could also have a less experienced mafia player directing the kills, though this would eliminate the Matt/Bass theory.

These suppositions about the Empire felt a little out of the blue and seem to infer a lot (eg. Vader being a silencer, Emperor not submitting the kill, inactive team). It's not unusual for players to hypothesize about their own role/team in-thread, so it's a possibility that could be the case here.

He votes early on Simon, which I don't find particularly suspicious, since I was against Simon as well.

Sig has been pretty consistently wary of Glorfindel, which I agree with, so points to Sig for that.


Conclusion: Overall he reads genuine, and I think he's trying to work things out as best he can. But I don't think he's certified supatown. My leaning is most likely civ, but if he's bad probably Empire.

Bullzeye wrote:

Dom wrote:
"Already formed train on Mac?"
BS. Me and Golden are the only two votes on him. You are exaggerating big time. I'm exhausted from playing this game because it used to be fun and now it's turned into "if you don't post 400+ times, you're bad or a bad player" and I'm done with it.

This attitude is especially annoying when there are 14+ pages almost entirely dedicated to an argument between two players that has literally no benefit to anybody. I'd rather be criticised for being too quiet than actively be flooding the thread with meaningless BS that makes it hard for other people to keep up with the game.

I'm reading Sig's posts right now, then I'll go over Glorfindel's.

Matt wrote:
Linki - DFaraday what up!! I mentioned you earlier and asked what everyone thought of you, but nobody wanted to play that game

Beatles Forever, my friend. Your awesome game is why everyone has to tolerate my ass haha

Some people do. I've been accused of being too blendy and not blendy enough in this game.

I'm glad you liked it, and continued your prolific Mafia career!

I certainly wouldn't put it past a baddie team to bus teammates early on; I once hosted a game where a baddie team actually NKed one of their own members Night 1 (which I find inexplicable, but goes to show it happens). But the Golden case isn't cut and dried, so I'd also like to look at other players today. I think there's less of a case on Mac, since this kind of aggressive, myopic style seems to be a trademark of his anyway.

Glorfindel was pinging me a bit, and I'd like to look at Sig, just because everyone is seemingly reading him as civ and I want to see if there's a good reason for that.

P.S. I wish players would stop threatening to quit and such. That sort of thing seems to happen way more frequently than it used to.

Roxy wrote:

DFaraday wrote:

Roxy wrote: DFaraday - I am suspicious of you bc you are playing a game that I am not used to seeing from you. It is NOT blendy. Which troubles me greatly. You have provided original thoughts and suspicions which is so far out of the norm for you that I have this feeling about you. You are bad. Maybe indy but I feel its more likely that you are bad.

Sweet Christmas, I just can't win. I get lynched in 90% of the games I'm in for being blendy, and now I'm being suspected for having original thoughts?

I don't know what to say other than to assure you assure you that I am not bad. Even with posting original thoughts, I'm really not a threat to anyone in this game.

It is just very strange that you now change your game style after years of playing blendy. It pinged me and you responded. Your response, however, pings me again bc you say "I'm really not a threat to anyone in this game" - sounds like an Indy.

This is far from the only game in which I have ever expressed original thoughts. I'm sorry you view my gameplay that way, but anyone can attest that I often follow my own leads, I'm just not vocal about it.

Why is sounding like an Indy necessarily a bad thing? And if I were a dangerous Indy, why would I call attention to that fact?

DrWilgy wrote:I have reason to believe Dfaraday is broke, and we shouldbe suspish of him for it.

Lol rafing Wilgy fell asleep

I'm not broke. The way I figure is, if I lose I'm out more money, and if I win, I'll be drawing attention to myself. Either way, I'm not really interested.

Roxy wrote: DFaraday - I am suspicious of you bc you are playing a game that I am not used to seeing from you. It is NOT blendy. Which troubles me greatly. You have provided original thoughts and suspicions which is so far out of the norm for you that I have this feeling about you. You are bad. Maybe indy but I feel its more likely that you are bad.

Sweet Christmas, I just can't win. I get lynched in 90% of the games I'm in for being blendy, and now I'm being suspected for having original thoughts?

I don't know what to say other than to assure you assure you that I am not bad. Even with posting original thoughts, I'm really not a threat to anyone in this game.

I went ahead and voted Simon since my suspicions of him haven't changed.

I'm not sure I want to play the slots.

DrWilgy wrote:

DFaraday wrote:

DrWilgy wrote: This is what pinged me, how does Bubbles make herself look good by saying "I woulda" on an independent? I would understand the suspicion on her if she "I woulda" -d on Bcornett, but an "I woulda" on a indy doesn't make herself look good, or even distance her from a team. Your suspicion on her feels not genuine.

Also, do explain why her vote for Zebra didn't sit well with you.

I noticed that you asked previous about my suspicion on you... I don't remember answering or not, but If I missed it and waited until now, I'm sorry bout that.

I like Indys, in general I think they're not a problem. But Matt wasn't just an Indy, he was practically an SK. Everyone should want to get out a character who can and will kill anyone else. I think it's seen as a victory to lynch an SK, and Bubbles coming in and saying "I would have helped" feels ingratiating to me. At the very least, it seems as if she wants to blend with the crowd vote on that occasion.

I think Zebra is civ, so anyone's Zebra votes don't sit well with me. In Bubble's case, it was compounded by her Matt comment.

P.S. Thanks for the vote Bubbles.

What are your thoughts on her saying that she wouldn't have voted for Enrique?

I think that was the only sensible thing for her to say, given that she had already said she didn't think he was bad.

Voting Sorsha because she doesn't have any votes.

DrWilgy wrote: This is what pinged me, how does Bubbles make herself look good by saying "I woulda" on an independent? I would understand the suspicion on her if she "I woulda" -d on Bcornett, but an "I woulda" on a indy doesn't make herself look good, or even distance her from a team. Your suspicion on her feels not genuine.

Also, do explain why her vote for Zebra didn't sit well with you.

I noticed that you asked previous about my suspicion on you... I don't remember answering or not, but If I missed it and waited until now, I'm sorry bout that.

I like Indys, in general I think they're not a problem. But Matt wasn't just an Indy, he was practically an SK. Everyone should want to get out a character who can and will kill anyone else. I think it's seen as a victory to lynch an SK, and Bubbles coming in and saying "I would have helped" feels ingratiating to me. At the very least, it seems as if she wants to blend with the crowd vote on that occasion.

I think Zebra is civ, so anyone's Zebra votes don't sit well with me. In Bubble's case, it was compounded by her Matt comment.

P.S. Thanks for the vote Bubbles.

Glorfindel wrote:Nobody wants my vote in this poll? Have I become THAT much of a pariah amongst you all?

On top of that, a number of you have now described me as 'disingenuous'. The dictionary meaning of that word is "not candid or sincere, typically pretending that one knows less about something than one really does". And that isn't insulting? I'm really starting to look forward more and more to the end of this game...

I don't think you sound disingenuous, although I do find your continual Russ votes baffling. And people routinely say far, far worse things to each other in every Mafia game than your smelling a rat comment, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Good job, everyone. I definitely still think Simon is the way to go next.

DrWilgy wrote:

sig wrote:

Roxy wrote:Shit out of my ass? Your 8 year old is going to read that. its a nasty, disgusting way to describe it you could have said "out of thin air".

But tbh idc what you think of my list - I did provide reasoning when asked - I like to play my own way and really detest being told how to play. Tough shit if you do not like how I listed my suspicions. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Cfd to DFaraday

Why Dfaraday? I see he is on your list but not why that is?

I do agree something seems slightly off with Wilgy this phase.

I haven't been here lol, shoot me if you wanna. I got caught up right as turkey day festivities began... Plus I'm still at work. Grumbe grumble 14 hour shifts grumble.

I would actually be ok with Dfaraday lynch, those curiosities towards him have shifted into pings and suspicions in my head. Maybe I should reread him... I'm kinda teetering on the Enrique lynch. I would like to know what Enrique thinks poison rulings are, if there are any, before I place a vote on him.

Sorry, you would be fine with lynching me just because of some vague pings you have? I'd at least like to know what it is that's pinging you.

I'll go ahead and vote now just to make sure I'm not last. I still think Simon is the more suspicious of the two, so I'll vote him, even though Enrique seems the inevitable choice today.

I'm not opposed to lynching Enrique per se, but it seemed to me that there was more obvious connection linking Simon to the Hutts. Why is everyone so sure of Enrique again?

a2thezebra wrote:Indie is short for "Independent" role, meaning a player(s) that is only aligned with themselves, neither town, nor scum. So in this case we've already lynched the primary indie (Bobba Fett) but there also the small indie factions, the Tusken Raiders and Jawas.

In addition, Indy win conditions vary, but the most common are variations on last man standing, and Indies who just need to survive to the end.

I agree that Matt is sounding pretty good since coming back.

Happy regular Thursday to everyone not in America!

Great result! Simon's vote looks really bad, so he's moved up to number one on my list. Enrique could be connected as well, but I think there's a stronger chance of Simon being a Hutt.

I just voted 5 people who didn't have votes yet, since I've no idea what it's for.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DFaraday wrote:DrWilgy, wherever you are, are you suspicious of me? If so, why?

DF! You're missing a Host Banner in your signature.

AFAIK, there are no banners for Gentleman's Guide.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DFaraday wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:So you'd rather lynch all of those players beneath Glorfindel before him? Why?

Honestly, like with Roxy I don't think I'm in a place to contribute to a lynch of Glorfindel. I was the one who made him openly reluctant to play another game on this site for crying out loud. It just doesn't feel right.

I don't feel as though either Roxy or Glorfindel's comments regarding that matter should have taken place in the thread, so I don't like that they are impacting people's votes.

They probably shouldn't have, but if it came to it I would rather lose a game than contribute to driving someone away from Mafia.

For the record, I do still suspect Roxy.

Fair enough, I understand that.

Who else do you suspect?

Simon and Ninja, for their ultra-bandwagony Bass votes, Glorfindel (because of his Russ vote and his reactions lately), and a little bit Savage. All of these are lower on my suspicion list than Roxy and Bubbles though.

DrWilgy, wherever you are, are you suspicious of me? If so, why?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:So you'd rather lynch all of those players beneath Glorfindel before him? Why?

Honestly, like with Roxy I don't think I'm in a place to contribute to a lynch of Glorfindel. I was the one who made him openly reluctant to play another game on this site for crying out loud. It just doesn't feel right.

I don't feel as though either Roxy or Glorfindel's comments regarding that matter should have taken place in the thread, so I don't like that they are impacting people's votes.

They probably shouldn't have, but if it came to it I would rather lose a game than contribute to driving someone away from Mafia.

For the record, I do still suspect Roxy.

I was going to vote Roxy, but I'd feel bad about it now that she posted about wanting to quit. So I went with Bubbles, since her vote for Zebra doesn't sit well with me, and I was still a bit suspicious of of her for her (in my view) self-promoting post about Matt way back.

EPWOP: People, stop talking for two seconds!!!

bcornett24 wrote:@mm

I have read over bass's posts and i honestly can't tell you why he was lynched let alone had a single vote. Here is the post history for Bass_the_Clever. As I had previously stated I could not recall why he was considered to be suspicious therefore I placed my vote on Enrique instead. I am not sure how this made me your number one suspect. In fact, that is as suspicious as bass's Lynch. 6 players voted for bass. Of those the only player only zebra seems to have provided a reason in her ISO which basically stated that her suspicions were based on lack of content/participation.

I agree, I find the Bass voters more suspicious than the Enrique voters. In particular Simon, who offered no reason, and Ninja, who had not mentioned Bass at all prior to her vote post. In addition, both of those votes came once Bass was already taking votes, making them seem particularly opportunistic.

I also don't get Enrique's fixation with Russ. He thinks Russ is a Tusken, yeah? But the role page says they "want to be left alone in peace." That sounds more of a survive to the end kind of thing to me.

Roxy acting as if Dom's Bass comment was suspicious after he clarified it was an error, combined with her equating my vote for her with the Bass voters, does give Zebra's claims re: Roxy more credit, imo.

Roxy wrote:

DFaraday wrote:RIP Bass. I think the Bass voters will be a good place to start, especially since the votes started piling onto him with hardly any discussion.

Kind of like your vote for me, right DF?

When you get bandwagoned to death for no apparent reason and flip civ, yes, just like that.

RIP Bass. I think the Bass voters will be a good place to start, especially since the votes started piling onto him with hardly any discussion.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DFaraday wrote:

Black Rock wrote: I was just going to look for his vote post because I noticed he voted my way. Rude! I am barely hosting. I'm more of the fill in when LC is busy.

Gun to head, this post is a cop out. Not very town-like.

Sorry BR! I just needed to vote somewhere, and I know self-voting is looked down on a lot more than it used to be.

I've pretty much caught up (but with a ton of skimming because y'all are insanely verbose), and Bcornett caught my eye for his suspicion of Golden, which didn't make sense to me. He did come around, but it still felt a bit weird to me to single out Golden that way. Golden, Zebra, and MP are reading as town to me, but I ten to see high posters as civvie in general.

Enrique could be indy, given his early comments, but his defense feels sincere to me.

Oh, and Savage questioning Simon about Boba Fett caught my attention too. Why wouldn't we want to find an SK?

Bubbles saying she would have voted Matt after the fact pings me.

DFaraday, why does Enrique's defense feel sincere; can you point to a specific post or posts for me?

Also, why re: Bubbles?

Re: Enrique, not really, it was just a tone thing. However now that I realize he misrepresented one of your posts I'm feeling more uneasy about him.

As for Bubbles, it felt to me like she was coming in and saying she would have voted for a baddie after it's resolved, making herself look good without actually having committed to anything.

Glorfindel's Russ vote is weird to me. The most anyone's really suspecting him of is being indy, so why did Glorfindel go for him?

Just barely caught up now. I'm voting Roxy, because I don't believe she really randomly voted Matt, and hasn't offered much since.

Black Rock wrote: I was just going to look for his vote post because I noticed he voted my way. Rude! I am barely hosting. I'm more of the fill in when LC is busy.

Gun to head, this post is a cop out. Not very town-like.

Sorry BR! I just needed to vote somewhere, and I know self-voting is looked down on a lot more than it used to be.

I've pretty much caught up (but with a ton of skimming because y'all are insanely verbose), and Bcornett caught my eye for his suspicion of Golden, which didn't make sense to me. He did come around, but it still felt a bit weird to me to single out Golden that way. Golden, Zebra, and MP are reading as town to me, but I ten to see high posters as civvie in general.

Enrique could be indy, given his early comments, but his defense feels sincere to me.

Oh, and Savage questioning Simon about Boba Fett caught my attention too. Why wouldn't we want to find an SK?

Bubbles saying she would have voted Matt after the fact pings me.

Glorfindel wrote:I've got to tell you guys, I feel so far out of my depth right now. From my limited experience, what passes for evidence this early on in Mafia games is often little more than a combination of bravado and overactive imagination. All I can see is some particularly harsh accusations being thrown around by some VERY enthusiastic players. I have been around long enough not to mistake aggressiveness in these games with Mafia guilt so a couple of feuding prominent players (at this stage of the game) doesn't convince me that one is necessarily Mafia. From what I've read, Golden seems to make a lot of sense to me...

Like I said, I'm having a lot of trouble trying to follow you guys...

You're not wrong, Glorfindel, this is an unusually heated Day 1, and I haven't been able to follow along just yet either. I will have no access to Mafia again until after the poll ends, and I haven't been able to immerse myself in the ongoing saga here, so I'll just vote BR because she's busy hosting another game.

I'm sure there would be plenty of civs as well as baddies who would avoid voting rather than risk being the last vote, so I'm not sure how that would make a player suspicious. Placing their own interests ahead of the town, sure, but not baddie per se.

Dom wrote:Are we going to Endor or the Forest Moon of Enor?

Good point.

Sorsha wrote:Aren't they the same thing?

Endor is a gas giant, the place they go in the movie is one of its moons.

I voted Tatooine, because that's the first planet we see in the film. Also a lot of my favorite scenes are on Tatooine.

For everyone voting Alderaan, I really hope we don't end up like this: