The Syndicate

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Long Con wrote:I really had no idea who the baddies were.

Long Con wrote:Don't bother, MP, why waste your time when you've already decided? Just vote for me, stop trying to justify it by pretending to analyze my gameplay.

You want me to tell you who the baddies are. I don't know who they are. I know who I think they're not. I put out some discussion about it, and you just accuse me yet again of "not baddie hunting".

You voted me D2.

If you found me suspicious all this time, why did you not pursue it?

Redacted.

Day 4 and Day 5, respectively.

LC is a liar.

Gone now. :P

Long Con wrote:I really had no idea who the baddies were.

Long Con wrote:Don't bother, MP, why waste your time when you've already decided? Just vote for me, stop trying to justify it by pretending to analyze my gameplay.

You want me to tell you who the baddies are. I don't know who they are. I know who I think they're not. I put out some discussion about it, and you just accuse me yet again of "not baddie hunting".

Anyway, whatever, I need to study. I've made my case. Go ahead and laugh it off instead of seeing it for what it is. EMPTY WORDS.

I hope others can see that your failure to baddie hunt has dug you a hole this game.

Oh, wait, I'm wrong you did vote me ONCE on D2.

You haven't voted me since. If I'm so bad, why didn't you push a lynch of me before, LC? Why are you only saying this now?

Long Con wrote:LOL what a joke, I just read your post MP. I love how you ignore that fact that I'm clearly suspicious of you and actually say so, more than once, in all the posts you quoted.

BS. You never ONCE say "I think MP is suspicious" or "I think MP is bad".

You never ONCE have voted me.

You're lying.

I also think it's really obvious that Snowy and Made have civvie BTSC. I don't think they'd be doing this if they were bad, and the way LC says the same confirms that to me.

Gotta go, be back later tonight.

Rox's fixation on Ambray and the way she has emotionally manipulated the thread have been bothering me for some time. I think she's your teammate.

Do it, lynch me. Then when I flip civ, I want everyone to lynch you, LC, and your baddie teammate, Rox.

I see nothing wrong with Dom's behavior this game. He's been reasonable. I may not agree with him on Made, but LC's most recent theory is obviously an attempt to CHA (cover his redacted). And he has been baddie hunting and not making near as many empty statements or questions as you, LC.

I'd like everyone to actually read my observations about LC. I am very confident he's bad.

So I needed a break from studying anyway so I just looked through LC's posts this game. Seems my memory was correct. His baddie hunting is lacking and he doesn't make any definitive questions.

I highlight here which statements he's made that are actually definitive suspicions of his own:

Long Con wrote:I was surprised to come back into the thread and see all the votes on nijuu. The poll looked very different from the one I had last seen. I don't think it looks like a save of Llama though, who only had two votes when nijuu got four in a row.

I don't agree with MP that Snow Dog's case sounds forced at all, it's a possibility. It wouldn't be the first time that I've seen a baddie bring up something in the thread that they were hoping someone else would have noticed. I've done it myself before... a night action or lynch reveals something that the baddies wanted the Civvies to be misled by, but no one brings it up! It's very frustrating.

MP's immediate 'no u' vote is what raises my eyebrow more.

And that's really about it. He doesn't even say he thinks I'm bad, ever. He never makes that statement in this game, except here, ironically:

Long Con wrote:How have I had a lack of baddie hunting?

I thought that MP was seeming like a baddie, so I came after him. I thought a Roxy truster might be bad, so I reread them. I found a connection that Roxy and fingersplints might be baddies, and I brought it up.

This is an untrue accusation of me. You expect more of me, I'm sorry, but I was busy for much of this game. You're just accusing me because I've been busy when you say I haven't baddie hunted enough. If you can't see that, then I don't think anything I can say will convince you, and you're the one(s) with tunnel vision.

First, I will highlight every time LC has mentioned me, except for the times above. He has never really pursued me, just tried pushing the thread in my direction without ever saying I'm bad. Here they are in chronological order:

LC's first post about me was the one I quoted at the top, about my apparent NO U onto Snow Dog (which wasn't a no u): http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 47#p100247

He then votes me on D2: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 65#p100265

Then he says this:

Long Con wrote: Well, that was something. I doubt a Seemer would choose Guido, since he is likely to have secret BTSC with Luigi. At least that's what I assume, since they're joined at the hip.

It's strange to me that MP's main case was based on a supposed goof-up that Bass made, and yet Bass got no votes and FZ got lynched.

"It's strange" and then he makes an observation. Tons of posts like this that don't really give an opinion on what HE thinks happened. More on that later though and back to mentioning me.

Then he votes me in the night poll:

Long Con wrote:Nothing positive about being caught by Frank. I'm voting MP07 for making me read so many pages just to catch up from being gone a few hours, only to find it was a waste of time.

He then says it's "not a lynch" when I get upset, which is weird upon reflection considering he just voted for me in a lynch the day before and apparently thinks I'm bad even though he's never said it.

Long Con wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:To be fair, yes, I posted way too much and some of the posts are unnecessary. But I don't see why I deserve to receive a vote merely because I was actively baddie hunting when many others weren't. If you think it's because I wasn't being genuine that's another story.

It's not a lynch.

Well, it appears that way, but we don't really know what's going to happen, and it seems to have negative effects.

If there's negative effects, you should suffer them. I'd be happy to see you suffer them simply for making a sig bet at all. I'm really against sig bets, that, more than anything, makes me suspicious of you.

Apparently he thinks I should suffer them for making a sig bet at all, but doesn't mention EVER here that he thinks I'm bad.

Long Con wrote:

Dom wrote:MP, if you were so sure of Bass and a large part of your suspicion of FZ was predicated on her connection to Bass-- why not lynch bass?

Exactly what I was saying:

Long Con wrote:It's strange to me that MP's main case was based on a supposed goof-up that Bass made, and yet Bass got no votes and FZ got lynched.

Maybe MP was actually that overconfident that he had magically caught a whole baddie team, but it just smacks of convenience to me. Bass was the one who messed up, but that wasn't as important to MP as the fact that he saw that the thread would more easily go for FZ. The Civvie move would have been to lynch Bass first to be sure, since his alignment is the basis of the whole case, but not even MP voted for Bass.

Worthless rhetoric, he basically doesn't say anything here. Just puts out another possibility without even saying he thinks I'm bad, again.

Long Con wrote:I don't know what to do about MP. It's possible he could be a severely mistaken Civvie, but the way he just threw Bass, FZ., and Roxy into the pot just based on Bass' suppose slip-up is just bizarre. Then the sig bet thing, which always makes me suspicious. S~V~S just made a sig bet over in Monopoly Mafia and turned out to be a baddie. I feel like it's a move designed to make everyone believe that you're Civvie, because no one would ever make a sig bet as a baddie!

I can see the case about Bass seeming to know that MP and not DF was targeted, has Bass addressed this? The thing is, if MP were the targeter, then that would explain why he would be the one to come up with the accusation. No one else caught it. Or he could be Chick Hicks, not caring who gets lynched. It would be pretty slick, and if he's not a baddie, I don't see MP getting NK'ed any time soon.

Again more worthless rhetoric. He doesn't actually try to get me lynched or say that I'm bad.

Long Con wrote:"Genuine" baddie hunting... I guess that's classified as hunting a baddie who's not you, right MP?

The vote for Made was not opportunistic, it was made when I thought the lynch was a 24-hour one, and I had run out of time. The only reason I made a weak vote like that was that I really had no idea who the baddies were. I did intend to change it, but I didn't have a chance yesterday, I basically got up, went to work, came home, changed, went out for a birthday dinner for my niece and nephew, and went straight from there to play cards, getting home around 11pm, and the lynch was up.

The fact that would try to build a case against me saying I'm "asking the same questions over and over" just brings back my suspicion of you all over again. It's not even true. I asked Bass one time about his point of view on your out-of-control "case" that got him and FZ. killed. I asked it because I didn't want to wade back into the hundreds of posts you made happen to see if I could find it, figured I could get a fresh answer from him before just condemning him.

And as for my "trust of Roxy" that BR asked... I'm not the one who particularly trusts Roxy, that was half the players in the game. I saw nothing in particular that made me trust her any more than any of you, but apparently a lot of other people did. That kind of thing does affect my opinion of her. Then she came in from being silenced while Bass got lynched, with some angry words and fresh points of view, pointing at Made, Ambray, and... someone else as well I think. Without a solid suspicion of my own, Made got my vote due to his analysis of Dom, combined with the fresh Roxy accusation.

It doesn't mean I have any particular trust for Roxy, it meant I was willing to go with her suspicion because it was a fresh point of view that wasn't MP's death train.

Now apparently he tries to "go back" to the suspicion of me. What suspicion of me? He just keeps making statements about me (and others) and asking meaningless questions. He never actually hunts me. If he thinks I'm bad, why is he behaving like this?

Long Con wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Lol, well, no that's not baddie hunting anyone that's not me. I just mean your hunting has seemed forced and not genuine a lot of the time. I know that's hard to defend against though.

And it's not exactly because you're asking questions, it's more because you kept asking them without adding any of your own input or opinion on the matter.

I hate to be a broken record, but less input from me coincided with a busy time that we were very up-front about. So I can't help you there, I agree, I have given less input than I would have if it had been a free-time time of the year.

Your elaboration re: your trust of Roxy just doesn't make sense to me and elucidates my point. Do YOU trust Roxy? You sort of skirt the question. You're relying too much on other people's opinions, it's just strange.

I don't trust Roxy more than others, but I do like the fresh perspective she brought to the thread when she got unsilenced. After so much MP07-following wrongness in those lynches, I agreed with looking at another perspective.

And I have tried to to some back-reading to see if I could find a baddie, but the only thing I really see there is that maybe Roxy and fingersplints are baddies together. fingersplints was one of the big Roxy trusters, and I believe it was Roxy who mentioned something about 'trusting because of friendship', which originally led me to disregard splints as a "truspect".

Apparently he doesn't think I'm bad because this is what he says.

Long Con wrote:MP, you are someone who is absolutely stuck inside their own head. Play my playstyle off how you want, you're doing nothing but justifying your pre-existing gut suspicion by interpreting what I'm doing so it fits your ideal vision of the game.

Lemme put it bluntly: you're wrong about me. Lynch me and find out, but I promise you it will just be another Civvie lynch.

Never says he thinks I'm bad.

Long Con wrote:I have seen this accusation before, that someone "seems to not legitimately want to find baddies". It's always a sketchy reason, very gut-based, and I think it's probably really easy to decide like you think someone's bad, and then read their gameplay as illegitimate because of it... instead of the other way around.

Same story.

Then here comes the post I quoted above, the second one: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 49#p101949 "I thought MP was seeming baddie, so I came after him". Where did he do that?

Total BS.





And here are his other "contributions" and EXACTLY what I've been talking about. He just constantly raises questions that anyone could glean from reading the thread and never gives his own opinions definitively. He is not trying to catch baddies, he's just trying to get by.

Long Con wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I do find it odd that LC said he'd leave his vote on me because he "didn't feel the need" with Ninja ahead of me in the votes. But I'm more likely to give him a pass on it than sabie.

Yeah, that's all I've got so far.

Thanks for the pass, I don't know why you said you find it odd. Maybe you need me to explain "didn't feel the need" a little better. I threw a vote on you to help prompt you to check in, not because I wanted to see you lynched. If I had checked back in and seen that you were going to be lynched, I would have moved my vote like I said I would, because you gave me a reason to. Since you seemed to be out of lynch-danger, I didn't think there was a point, especially since my catch-up on the thread was a big skim in which I saw some actual suspicions forming. I didn't have time to weigh in and analyze this new development, so I stayed with what I had.

Maybe I don't find it odd because I lived it, but there's nothing really odd there. Busy times, busy day today, I'll be more able to participate after the next couple of days are over.

No issuance of opinion about BWT or anyone else.

Long Con wrote: Well, that was something. I doubt a Seemer would choose Guido, since he is likely to have secret BTSC with Luigi. At least that's what I assume, since they're joined at the hip.

It's strange to me that MP's main case was based on a supposed goof-up that Bass made, and yet Bass got no votes and FZ got lynched.

"Strange"? He doesn't even elaborate here or look into it.

Long Con wrote:

Dom wrote:I thought my conversation with myself made it pretty clear why I'm likely wrong about MP -- he was targeted for a NK

Was it confirmed to be MP and not DF?

Long Con wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Well I guess I voting snow dog. I think everyone who is voting for me needs to be looked at next lynch.

Did you speak at all about the accusation MP gave to you? I think you did, but please refresh me: did you know it was MP who was targeted? Did you know DFaraday could have been the target?

Why did he ask these anyway? I questioned him on it here and he said:

Long Con wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Well I guess I voting snow dog. I think everyone who is voting for me needs to be looked at next lynch.

Did you speak at all about the accusation MP gave to you? I think you did, but please refresh me: did you know it was MP who was targeted? Did you know DFaraday could have been the target?

Like this post.

I already went back and forth on this with Bass for like thirty minutes yesterday.

What does this add? Nothing. Bass just can say whatever he wants to now, it doesn't change how he originally posted.

I read through that dizzying number of posts yesterday only once, due to the massive volume in a short time. Although I could remember a number of people, including yourself, calling out Bass for an explanation, I couldn't remember if he had given one before the lynch just turned on FZ.

I'm not trying to "add" anything, I was trying to decide how I felt about your case on Bass when I knew his side.

Anyways, I voted Bass because there was one minute left and he already has the majority of the votes. His explanation sounds reasonable, but it also sounds like what a baddie would say if he slipped up. So I guess we'll find out.

Never even said he thought Bass was suspicious, ever. This was the only time he even acknowledged him, really.

Long Con wrote:I was thinking back over the game, and recalling a flood of trust for Roxy near the start. I thought it might be beneficial to track that trust a little, and see who fostered it, and who followed it. Seems like the kind of thing the baddies might want to get involved with on some level. It follows something I've been looking at for a few games now, the idea of baddies expressing trust in Civvies to get some cred.

Long Con wrote:I didn't find much I thought too interesting in the Roxy trusters. Two were Bass and FZ., one was MP07, and then there's fingersplints, who is Roxy's friend.

I have to vote now because I have to go to work. I'm going to go with Made, partly because Roxy herself agrees with it, partly because of the strange analysis of Dom's play, which seems pretty normal to me. It's pretty weak.

He didn't find anything from this. Again, empty theories without expounding on them. Appearing to baddie hunt without actually doing so. Then he latches onto a Made vote.

Seriously, folks, listen to this:

Long Con wrote:"Genuine" baddie hunting... I guess that's classified as hunting a baddie who's not you, right MP?

The vote for Made was not opportunistic, it was made when I thought the lynch was a 24-hour one, and I had run out of time. The only reason I made a weak vote like that was that I really had no idea who the baddies were. I did intend to change it, but I didn't have a chance yesterday, I basically got up, went to work, came home, changed, went out for a birthday dinner for my niece and nephew, and went straight from there to play cards, getting home around 11pm, and the lynch was up.

The fact that would try to build a case against me saying I'm "asking the same questions over and over" just brings back my suspicion of you all over again. It's not even true. I asked Bass one time about his point of view on your out-of-control "case" that got him and FZ. killed. I asked it because I didn't want to wade back into the hundreds of posts you made happen to see if I could find it, figured I could get a fresh answer from him before just condemning him.

And as for my "trust of Roxy" that BR asked... I'm not the one who particularly trusts Roxy, that was half the players in the game. I saw nothing in particular that made me trust her any more than any of you, but apparently a lot of other people did. That kind of thing does affect my opinion of her. Then she came in from being silenced while Bass got lynched, with some angry words and fresh points of view, pointing at Made, Ambray, and... someone else as well I think. Without a solid suspicion of my own, Made got my vote due to his analysis of Dom, combined with the fresh Roxy accusation.

It doesn't mean I have any particular trust for Roxy, it meant I was willing to go with her suspicion because it was a fresh point of view that wasn't MP's death train.

That bolded and underlined reasoning is BS. No one knows who the baddies are. LC isn't hunting genuinely because he doesn't have to. He's bad.

Long Con wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Lol, well, no that's not baddie hunting anyone that's not me. I just mean your hunting has seemed forced and not genuine a lot of the time. I know that's hard to defend against though.

And it's not exactly because you're asking questions, it's more because you kept asking them without adding any of your own input or opinion on the matter.

I hate to be a broken record, but less input from me coincided with a busy time that we were very up-front about. So I can't help you there, I agree, I have given less input than I would have if it had been a free-time time of the year.

Your elaboration re: your trust of Roxy just doesn't make sense to me and elucidates my point. Do YOU trust Roxy? You sort of skirt the question. You're relying too much on other people's opinions, it's just strange.

I don't trust Roxy more than others, but I do like the fresh perspective she brought to the thread when she got unsilenced. After so much MP07-following wrongness in those lynches, I agreed with looking at another perspective.

And I have tried to to some back-reading to see if I could find a baddie, but the only thing I really see there is that maybe Roxy and fingersplints are baddies together. fingersplints was one of the big Roxy trusters, and I believe it was Roxy who mentioned something about 'trusting because of friendship', which originally led me to disregard splints as a "truspect".

It's interesting he says this now because it's the first I heard of it.

He FINALLY makes an attempt to baddie hunt here:

Long Con wrote:I'm not too suspicious of either Made or Snow Dog at this point. Looking more toward Roxy, fingersplints, and maybe Dom after a reread.

I may have worked out a couple of roles, need to watch and see. As for BR, I'm usually blind to her alignment so

But he NEVER explains why he's eyeing any of those players!

I think LC needs to go. If you actually look at what he's saying, his statements are almost always empty statements. They don't contribute anything, but he tries to make it appear like he is, then gets offended when I say he isn't legitimately baddie hunting. That's because he isn't. He's just making empty statements and asking empty questions, never offering up statements like "I think so and so is bad and this is why". Never.

Linki w/ LC: How convenient. Where's the roll eyes smiley?

Long Con wrote:Well, you weren't specific then... ask me what you want to know, it looked like you were doing "illegitimate baddie hunting", to use the apparent parlance of our times.

If there was a baddie to track down for Hedgeowl's death, then Snow Dog would be the one to go after, in equal amounts to Made. Right? I mean, it's a package deal. I just happen to believe that they're Civvie, this vouching is too bold for baddies to do.

You could point to Roxy, maybe she agreed too easily to switch from Made to Hedge. If she's a baddie, then in her eyes, one is just as good as the other if they're both Civ.

Were Mighty Rearranger's motives pure? Was it really something worth coming after Hedge for, just because some other people focused on her on Day One with no real suspicion? Maybe his vote was just a shielding ploy, like "look, I'm doing my own baddie hunting plan here, move along". It certainly seems to have met MP07's standards for who is doing "legitimate" baddie hunting and who isn't. (Unless MP is going after MR already and I have forgotten... pretty late here, going to bed, not worth searching out right now).

So there's some options for you if you're looking for someone to blame for Hedgeowl's lynch. I don't think those ideas are any less apparent than a play by play recounting was. If you thought there was something there, Dom, then why didn't you put forth these ideas? Is there someone in that list that you would prefer we not look at? Why make it my responsibility to think it out for you? Is that what "legitimate" baddie hunters do?

Ok, here's my turn to be Mr Legitimacy: Hey, uh, Sabie, what's your take on the Snow Dog/Made situation? DFaraday, was there a hidden motive behind Dom asking me to dig into the Hedge lynch rather than doing it himself? Simon, who sounds like a baddie to you the most out of everyone, gut response.

That'show you do it, right guys?

Made wrote:Re: the first LC quote.

Is there any other reasons you think they're on the same team beside the vote? I'm not finding anything on rereads, but i'm also exhausted atm.

Fingersplints trusted Roxy very early, and Roxy said that some people trust their friends more easily (as opposed to being a baddies using trust as a blind). Roxy and fingersplints are friends. I'm sure you can see how that could be construed as a baddie Roxy subtly clearing her baddie teammate from the 'truspect' charge.

I'm sorry, is this baddie hunting? You've never actually said who you suspect here. You just raised a bunch of questions.

Long Con wrote:Don't bother, MP, why waste your time when you've already decided? Just vote for me, stop trying to justify it by pretending to analyze my gameplay.

You want me to tell you who the baddies are. I don't know who they are. I know who I think they're not. I put out some discussion about it, and you just accuse me yet again of "not baddie hunting".

So many things wrong with this response. I realize you're upset, especially if falsely accused, but:

- I'm not "pretending". If you believe I am, then do you believe I'm bad or not? You've never actually said. Nor have you said who you're voting.
- I don't want you to "tell me who the baddies are", I want you to tell me who you think they are and why, make definitive statements instead of just casting statements like you did above, where you never actually accuse me of being bad.

Dom wrote:

Long Con wrote:Well, if YOU read MY post then you'll see I didn't say that you think I'm bad.

Otherwise, I'm quite comfortable integrating a scathing diatribe about MP07's methods in with a post that began with answering you.

Well, you threw a lot of shade in that post. I see my name in there far more than MP's. You never actually indicted Mr. Sock of anything in that post, but rather, danced around an issue that left both me and MP open to attack.

That's exactly what I've been saying. He keeps dancing around things, not actually accusing anyone outright or baddie hunting.

I'm busy since I'm at campus studying all day, but when I get home I'll go back and look at LC's posts to give him a fair shake. I read his defense post and I realize I don't want to railroad him unfairly, and I did doubt myself. But I also feel his response is along the same lines of the behavior he's been doing all game. There's something off about it, like he isn't willing to actually accuse anyone of being bad.

If I remember correctly, he just kept spreading doubt about me and has never even ONCE tried to argue that I'm actually bad and here's why. That's what he's done with everyone.

BUT I will go back and revisit his posts to either illustrate that point or to clear up a misconception. I don't want to indict him on something that's untrue. But if I remember correctly, that is indeed the case.

BBL

I didn't mean "argument" as in case, my bad. Poor choice of words. I really just mean I could see the possibility of you being bad. I don't really have a read on you at this point, sadly.

Long Con wrote:MP, you are someone who is absolutely stuck inside their own head. Play my playstyle off how you want, you're doing nothing but justifying your pre-existing gut suspicion by interpreting what I'm doing so it fits your ideal vision of the game.

Lemme put it bluntly: you're wrong about me. Lynch me and find out, but I promise you it will just be another Civvie lynch.

I recognize I could be wrong, but I'm inevitably going with the interpretation of your and everyone else's behavior that I believe most logically fits what's happened.

I'm willing to listen if you or anyone else can convince me someone else should get my vote, but I'm not going to be easily convinced, and I strongly think my vote is in the best place at the moment.

Of course, that's my interpretation. I just can't think of a civvie LC taking 5 cycles to actually build a case against someone and make assertive statements as to whether he actually thinks people are bad or good.

Instead of constantly suspicion mongering without actually ever stating his opinions in black and white.

Dom wrote: Lc certainly painted broad strokes with his last post about me. He clearly missed the point of the post.

This is all he's been doing all game.

I haven't seen one legitimate instance of LC actually trying to find baddies this game.

I think we need to lynch LC, for sure. I'm not certain, but I just am still getting bad feelings from him. His last two posts on Hedge getting lynched over Made as well as of Dom both seemed like baddie suspicion mongering, not genuine attempts to actually find baddies. He's not really case building or issuing opinions of his own, he just keeps pushing things out there and asking questions designed to get others talking without contributing any honest suspicions. He never even comes out and says when he thinks people could be bad or not.

And Rox, my post regarding Ambray may sound fence sitting-esque or something like that because I honestly have mildly trusted Ambray most of the game. Only reasons I doubt her are twofold: (1) pulling wool over my eyes and (2) lack of contributions since agreeing me with on FZ. and Bass, though I see she has put forth a DF suspicion now.

I think Snow Dog is telling the truth. I'm not sure I want to vote Made. I'm inclined to believe they both might be civvie.

I still think LC is bad, and I go back and forth on Rox and Ambray.

Ambray's recent posts sounded genuine to me, however.

I could see the argument for DF being bad. Something to consider. I'm not really sure on him.

LOL, no worries, DF.

You think Snowy would really defend a baddie teammate that hard?

Look above it one post. That was the N4 poll.

Wait, what?

Hedge got 4 votes, Made and MR got 2, so it didn't get switched -- but the votes for Hedge came in at the last minute.

Or am I missing something?

Dom wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Dom, who is your biggest suspect? Is it Made?

And re: Made, how confident are you feeling in believing he's bad? You and I both know he's been lynched relatively early in practically every game he's played so far, so what do you think?

And what do you make of Snowy vouching so hard for him?

Yes.

I think Snow Dog is either bad or is hugely misguided, but I have no idea either way.

I think Made is bad bad bad

I'll consider your viewpoint then. He has made a few contradictions/odd statements, for sure.

Agreed, Rox, I don't know where a lot of players stand at this point.

I could be swayed to an Ambray vote, but I'm really afraid of being manipulated, and I'm not sure she's bad just yet. I just have doubts that she's good at this point. She did support my thoughts on FZ. and Bass, and was the first to make the observation against Blooper on D1, but hasn't contributed much else of anything.

Thanks! Fair enough. I think I agree. MR, if you had to vote someone right now, who would it be and why?

I wonder about Made too, but I considered Snow's intensity of defense, as well as the fact that Made has been reading genuine to me, for the most part, despite his occasional contradictions.

Do you think Snowy would defend a teammate like that, MR?

I will admit it is very strange to me how Made was in danger of getting lynched yesterday and yet there was a Hedgeowl bandwagon. Not sure what to make of it though.

RIPIYWG splints,.

I'll probably vote LC, but I am willing to consider Made and Ambray, and discuss as much as possible.

Dom, who is your biggest suspect? Is it Made?

And re: Made, how confident are you feeling in believing he's bad? You and I both know he's been lynched relatively early in practically every game he's played so far, so what do you think?

And what do you make of Snowy vouching so hard for him?

Simon wrote:Why are you all thinking about me?

Why wouldn't we be?

We don't know whether you're good or not.

But I personally don't have any reason to believe you're bad at the moment. I just don't know.

Snow Dog wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:I'm inclined to believe Roxy is civ. And MP and Made and also MR. Not sure about anybody else. Actually leaning civ on Dom too.

If you had to name three players that you want us to look at most tomorrow then, who would they be?

I wish I had a good answer. It may very well be one of the people i just passed as civ who is bad. Roxy coukd be bad. She changed her vite at my request and if she is bad she would have known she had nothing to lose by swtching votes from one civ to another. And i hAVE had my dobts about her.

But. Maybe DF, LC and BR.

And what about Simon? Doesn't say much but who nows? He has to have a bad role at some stage. aybe not now though. Would his parents give him a mafia role? Doubtful I think.

I'll very likely be voting LC tomorrow, but I'd like to get discussion going as much as possible. I'm not really sure about BR and DF at the moment. I could see them being bad though, I suppose.

Good point about Simon. At some point we'll have to consider him and Tink, but for now, neither of them are pinging me particularly badly.

Snow Dog wrote:I'm inclined to believe Roxy is civ. And MP and Made and also MR. Not sure about anybody else. Actually leaning civ on Dom too.

If you had to name three players that you want us to look at most tomorrow then, who would they be?

Roxy wrote:Just what I have already mentioned. Tbf BR's opinion carries weight when I think about him.
He has brought focus on you then seemed to be subtley shifting his focus to the lynch of the day using my name like it meant something.
He has however explained that since I was silenced he was looking for a fresh perspective since the first 2 lynches (now 3) had went badly. I get that. I felt and still feel the same.

Still I would like to hear BR's thoughts since his response.

I would also like to hear from splints and Kate.

Who are your top 2 suspicions and why? What have you learned since your read back?

Mine? or LC's? I'll give you mine anyway though.

I suppose at the moment they are 1) LC and 2) Ambray, but there are so many players I would say we haven't heard enough from. I was thinking Ambray seemed civ but looking back on her behavior she has inched up my list since I was initially silenced.

DFaraday wrote:I'm not sure how that strategy of baddies expressing trust of civs would work. For one thing there's always the chance the person they're praising turns out to be Chick, and also, I don't see the benefit. The majority of players wouldn't know whether the trusted player is civ or not, so I doubt they'd be more likely to trust the baddie who is claiming to trust someone.

I'm thinking everyone early on was just trying to express an opinion, not vouch for anyone or anything like that.

I think this might be true.

The only other possibility I'm willing to believe is Rox is bad and her teammate voted for her to win by blending in with others, but that would be risky. And I'm not convinced Rox is bad.

Personally, I just decided it would be pointless for everyone to vote themselves, and I saw no reason to believe Rox's play was bad, particularly compared to others, so I thought that a Roxy vote was acceptable. So did FZ. and she turned out to be civvie.

Rox what do you think of LC

It's hard to read people in this game... there are still so many who have contributed so little, IMO.

I know I derailed the thread, but man, I only wish some people would actually come play the game with us. Makes it so hard to determine if the baddies are laying low or what's going on.

Maybe I'll take a look at some players' posts for the upcoming day period.

I do think Rox would be a good player to look at. As well as you. Maybe Ambray too since I'm becoming less convinced she legitimately wants to find baddies.

Fair enough!

I'm not sure how I am feeling about Rox and splints myself. I know I voted for Rox earlier on, but that's because I was willing to put my trust in someone else and I thought her behavior seemed like her characteristic civvie self.

There have been times where I thought she might be manipulating the thread. I also thought she was lying at one point about receiving something in that first reward poll... but as time has gone by and since nothing happened to me or Snowy in that Francis poll, I'm starting to think those polls are meaningless.

So I could see a possible Rox-splints connection... but I'm just not really sure how to read them at the moment, especially Roxy.

Lol, well, no that's not baddie hunting anyone that's not me. I just mean your hunting has seemed forced and not genuine a lot of the time. I know that's hard to defend against though.

And it's not exactly because you're asking questions, it's more because you kept asking them without adding any of your own input or opinion on the matter.

Your elaboration re: your trust of Roxy just doesn't make sense to me and elucidates my point. Do YOU trust Roxy? You sort of skirt the question. You're relying too much on other people's opinions, it's just strange.

I know, Snowy, this game has been WAY too quiet.

Black Rock wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Black Rock wrote:Well I voted Hedgeowl, because I had to vote. I really don't see much of anything this game, and I don't have a handy dandy role to help me out.

Besides I'm quiet and voted for Dom, why am I suspicious? I ask because I may have missed it.

Right now I'm watching you LC, you seem off. It may be because of us being so busy but I really want you to answer my question. I say that knowing you are out tonight and won't be able to till tomorrow but please do.

Why is DF suspicious of you?

That's what I am asking.

RIP Hedge

MovingPictures07 wrote:My top suspect is LC. I would have voted him if I had not missed the lynch.

What are you seeing in LC?

Well, at several points his suspicions and posts have struck me as possibly insincere or forced.

I don't like his vote for Made today. Seemed very opportunistic.

I don't like the way he fixated on only me for the longest time, not because it was me but because he kept subtly trying to push suspicion onto me but it seemed sketchy. He tried to implicate me first because I "no u'd" Snow Dog, then because of the way I led the FZ. case.

I also think he is suspicious for asking questions over and over about things that had already been answered with regards to Bass and such.

I know he's been busy, but it's been four cycles, and I am NOT seeing any genuine baddie hunting from LC practically at all.

I really am starting to think he's bad.

Yes, the Sheriff doesn't like me apparently.

My top suspect is LC. I would have voted him if I had not missed the lynch.

Wow, what the heck was that?

Roxy wrote:MP - I tried telling you that I did not win any benefit or prize that I was aware of, you say I am a baddie who "dun goofed" and lumped me with 2 other civvies and then lynched them (am I next on your list?) - then Snow says the same thing and you are like yeah makes sense/I agree.

Why? and how odd.

Not sure what you mean about "Snow says the same thing..." portion.

I'm not sure I feel as strongly that you are lying anymore. I thought that previously, sure.

And yes, you summarized something which I did quite well there. No, you are not necessarily next on my list.

Why are you antagonizing me so much? I've genuinely tried to baddie hunt this game. If you don't believe that, fine, but you should consider that I'm not telling or forcing people to blindly follow me. Some are just doing it anyway. I really didn't even feel that sure about Bass yesterday, but I still had a lingering feeling he could have slipped.

I'll vote DJ then. Hopefully we're right.

Long Con wrote:There's one theory out there, that the order of the poll matches the order of the deaths. So I went with #2 on the poll.

I really doubt it's a rez poll though.

That makes sense. My first thought on it being a rezz poll was that "DJ" looks similar to "FZ". But... I think that's a coincidence.

I sort of agree... I'm beginning to wonder if Snow Dog's theory about these night polls being meaningless is true.

Linki seems I wasn't the only one.

Snow Dog wrote:

Long Con wrote:I doubt that the real Mack would just blurt it into the thread, Roxy.

And did you mean an excellent 'rez' candidate?

I am going to agree with you and try and bring back FZ. If that is what this is about.

I agree with this too.

But how do we know which option is which player, if true?

UGH. That really sucks. RIP Bass.

Bass, you said to look at Ambray as well as Made, right? Why Ambray?