Devin the Omniscient - ISO
Devin the Omniscient wrote:thellama73 wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:Ludwig von Mises wrote:
The assertion that there is irrational action is always rooted in an evaluation of a scale of values different from our own. Whoever says that irrationality plays a role in human action is merely saying that his fellow men behave in a way that he does not consider correct.
Now, regarding low posters: My feeling is that they are less likely to be recruited, and therefore more likely to remain unaligned. Not ideal choices for lynches, especially later in the game. On Day 1, however, they are just as likely to be a recruiter as anyone else, so if we're going to go after them, we should do it sooner rather than later.
Being a low poster right now, I have to disagree. There are already 14 pages of discussion (for me, at least), and from what little I've read so far there are too many good points being brought up to just go after low posters.
RE BWT: I've seen him leave wiggle room plenty of times before this. I've even done this myself lots of times in previous games, especially as a baddie (and as a civvie-attacking indie). That last part being said, I do agree that BWT does get lynched a lot regardless of alignment for stating wiggly-roomy type statements such as this. But I do want to keep an eye on going forward.
Linkie: MP and llama beat me to this
Here is Devin's first post (disregarding a 'yay game' post made beforehand).
Orange: Devin notes that many good points are being brought up to consider low posters. This is interesting to consider now on Day 4, since Devin has brought very little analysis to the table.
Yellow: I think it's good that Devin chimed in with a meta claim for BWT, confirming his behavior is within meta, but it's interesting to note that Devin claims he has done it often in previous games,
especially as mafia. He says that BWT is often (mis)lynched for such behavior but that he wants to keep an eye on him. One could argue that Devin was trying to keep an easy option open for his vote later, despite soft defending BWT's behavior on the one hand.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:At this moment, the players that I'm eyeballing the most are:
unfurl, for 13 posts that contribute practically nothing (no offense intended) to the hunt or game mechanics discussion, and for an attitude that seems very cheeky, sarcastic, and nonchalant. It's possible that she is a recruiter or recruited that isn't willing to open up the low poster discussion for the reasons I mentioned, although it seems clear that she has no intention to open up any avenue of discussion. Even if she isn't recruited or recruiter of a nefarious nature, that is a dangerous mindset, and considering 28 of us are neutral, she may receive my vote purely for that unwillingness.
Ricochet, for a starting suspicion on Llama that seems forced and out of character with regards to his typical analysis-driven self. However, I admit it's possible that his feelings are arising purely from clear bias, which he also seems willing to even admit. Nonetheless, I have not seen the same Rico this game that I saw in Watchmen, who was just a purely analytical machine.
Any players with 5 posts or less at this time (I'm widening my field), who are:
Russtifinko 5
Tranq 5
LoRab 4
nutella 4
Scotty 4
DFaraday 3
DisgruntledPorcupine 3
Typhoony 3
Bass_the_Clever 2
Canucklehead 2
Spacedaisy 2
Devin the Omniscient 1
DrWilgy 1
Sorsha 1
You know I am busy, and that this is why I couldn't join Angry Bird Mafia, too. I will do my best to stay on top of things, but it will be difficult with such a high posting game.
Devin responds to my focus on low posters by saying he's busy and that I know he is (this is true), but that it will be difficult to stay on the top of the game. Not much I can get out of this.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:Devin, I understand. Like I noted before, I'm not trying to say that I think people don't have lives. I also realize that the game just started and that it's a behemoth. I also have a life, quite a busy one at that... I have a lot to do today, yet I'm here, against my better judgment. It's a fun ass game and I wanted to be involved in at least some of Day 1, since I knew I'd be gone a lot of today and tomorrow.
I just am hoping to get all of the players who have yet to contribute, whom I'm not faulting for any reason, to do so, that's all. I also have specific reasoning that you may or may not have seen
here for why I think low posters are more relevant to hunt in this game than in other regular mafia setups.
I didn't mean for that to sound accusatory or anything harsh, bud. We all know that everyone playing this has a life outside of this. That's the primary reason I don't want to go after low posters. Secondly, there's now 15 pages worth of reading for me to do in order to catch up. I know I'm not the only one there, so it may be just that we have a ton to catch up on that we're not able to post as much. Thirdly, there are now 15 pages of discussion. Surely we can find something better to go on than just low posters
No hard feelings here, man
I will elaborate further when I can. For now, I have a Paul project to work on
He states again that he doesn't want to target low posters specifically and that "surely" we can find something better to base votes on. A fair enough point, but he still hasn't elaborated on what the "good points" were that everyone was making. Vagueness abound.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:Metalmarsh89 wrote:birdwithteeth11 wrote:Golden wrote:MM is voting for me, dontcha get it yet?
How do you know that?
I see reasons to vote for Golden, but I'll let things play out. I also have a reason not to vote for him.
Same.
Here Devin echoes what MM says about having reasons to vote and not vote Golden,
yet he doesn't state them.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:Whelp, I feel pretty current right now. Only thing I have to add is that I have a list of people I will not be voting for today. No idea who I will vote for though
Linki: I've been feeling out a genuine Golden, so I'll be intrigued to see where this goes tomorrow.
Triple linki
Devin says he is feeling a genuine Golden,
but doesn't explain why. He says he has a list of people he won't be voting for,
but doesn't share it. And he says he has no idea who he will vote for.
Could it be any more vague?
Devin the Omniscient wrote:Golden wrote:After I'm gone, lynch epi please. Thanks.
I won't be voting for either of you.
Devin says he won't be voting for either Golden or Epi. Absolutely no reason given
again.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:Spacedaisy wrote:Ok people this is clearly not a LMS game. Allow me to demonstrate...
From the hosts posts:
"Win Conditions
Civvie group 1 needs to defeat baddie group 1 and 2
Civvie group 2 needs to defeat baddie group 1 and 2
Baddie group 1 needs to defeat civvie group 1 and baddie group 2
Baddie group 2 needs to defeat civvie group 2 and baddie group 1"
So Civvie group 1 can win with Civvie group 2, and they both share the same enemies. In fact their win cons are exactly the same which makes them one standard civ team in every sense of the word. The only difference is only ones of the baddie teams is out to kill them.
Additionally, they set the teams up like a traditional civ team, meaning the recruiters for the civ team get limited amount of btsc, see the below quite from the hosts posts...
"If someone gets recruited, do they gain BTSC with the Leader?
Some Civvies get BTSC with the Leader, but it is a very limited number because too much Civvie BTSC would ruin the game. Baddies always get BTSC with their recruits.."
I am rethinking my bwt vote at the moment, leaning towards one of these people who keep billing this as a no civ game when it has been made clear by the hosts in multiple ways that there are civ aligned recruiters.
I agree 101% And I'm eyeballing most everyone who is trying to say that it is an LMS game and not a good vs. evil game. It clearly is. More on this and my suspicions later.
Devin agrees with Daisy and says that he is eyeballing those who view the game as an LMS game. No names given. He says he will elaborate upon his suspicions later, which would be great, since he hasn't said anything to back up any of his assertions thus far.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:I agree with your second statement Boomslang.
birdwithteeth11 wrote:Spacedaisy wrote:Right now the fore runner for my vote is probably bwt. The way he jumped on the JJJ thing about golden using the word but, then back pedaled out of it, followed by him jumping into MP's case for voting a low poster, I'm just feeling all kinds of sketch from him right now.
I went away from Golden because I felt the explanation he offered me when I questioned him about it seemed fairly reasonable, and I overlooked/missed an earlier post from him where he further explained his initial response to the whole SVS thing.
I think in a game this large, there's just too much unknown to really be sure we're going to hit a target on Day 1. So I feel more comfortable voting for someone who is not contributing to the game that significantly. I know it takes some people time to really get into games, and I understand that. But in a game this large, I'd rather it be more about people actively participating and trying to get involved early on.
Now Day 2 on the other hand, I would start to look for more concrete reasons to lynch someone than "a low poster".
You are not making me feel better about you, BWT. I agree that it is always the norm to have more concrete evidence to go on in Day 2. But there is now almost 30 pages of discussion to sift through on this Day 1, and that is just too much info to ignore and go with a random or a low poster.
Not only this, but I get the feeling that you are avoiding putting yourself out there into some of the more prominent discussions going on. Your "on-the-fence" (as someone other than you referred to it) comment RE:Golden is what pinged me immediately. That felt almost identical to something you said in Bioshock, and we lynched you Day 1 as a baddie. I wanted to get away from that and go after someone referring to this game as LMS (I still might if enough people vote that rout), but I just can't get this out of my mind. So I'm going meta for now and
voting for you. I will check back in later before the day ends, but I have to disappear now that I've caught up.
I REALLY need to work, as I am off for most of next week.
DON"T HATE ME DAVID! 
Linki: Thank you for clarifying, Timmer. That makes me feel better about you individually for now. I understand that currently a huge % of us are neutral and that that type of game is typically LMS. I just feel that playing this game as if it is LMS could really fuck us when we're recruited. I could see the same being argued for playing it as good vs. evil, but I'll stand by that type of (familiar) game play
Guess what? Devin suddenly feels worse about BWT. This seems incredibly opportunistic, and I even stated way back after BWT's no lynch that Devin's vote looked shadiest. Devin asserts that BWT is unwilling to get involved in discussion, which actually applies more to him than it did BWT at this stage. He then drops in a reference to Bioshock (a game I hosted 2 years ago) saying that BWT's behavior seemed similar, but doesn't explain specifics.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:Metalmarsh89 wrote:Ricochet wrote:Posting the poll tally would be good, but if voting will stay changeable, it won't be a fully accurate reflection of how votes evolved, especially if things get manipulated (granted, there won't be another early day end until we return to position 1).
I'm gonna double-check MM's list in a bit.
Please do. I'm confident in my checks through everyone's posts (those I needed to check), but the results weren't what I expected. There was so much chatter about BWT, I thought he would have had the most votes, not unfurl.
One thing I noticed when following along was how long it took for the remainder of the bet votes to pile on. I'm not surprised at all that mine was the only one to go through if the day ended at 5: something.
This is an interesting comment -- not sure what to make of it.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:@MP - I ended up going with bwt because I went back to read his posts that were pinging people. The more I looked over them the more they reminded me of Bioshock. I thought that this seemed like the best possibility for getting him early on as a baddie again.
That being said, on a friendly level I'm glad he made it past Day 1 (and Night 1 for that matter)
RIP Epig and Typh
In response to an inquiry by me as to why he voted for BWT, Devin says this, dropping the Bioshock line again, but not elaborating further.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:thellama73 wrote:Why would MP go out of his way to say Daisy wouldn't make a good recruit? If course she would make a good recruit. His response was completely unnecessary. Looks like a massive over correction to me. Either he has already recruited her or he intends to. MP has a good chance of receiving my vote today.
I can get behind an MP lynch
Devin the Omniscient wrote:reywaS wrote:Can you get in front of or in the middle of it, though?
Sure
But this was just to mess with him and make light of the situation. I will not be voting for MP today.
Devin jokes about voting for me when heat is being applied heavily in my direction around the first half of D2, but later qualifies that he was joking, and won't vote for me. No reason given.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:Dom wrote:
thellama73 wrote:MP is responding with threats now? "If you vote for me, I will vote for you"
That is atypical of him. Plus I don't like being threatened. Still some time left, assuming we actually have a 48 hour day, but MP looks no good to me.
You really think MP's response was out of character?
You think Alex being suspected, overreacting, and being rather unreasonable in the thread is unusual????
I would be suspicious if he DIDN'T do that!
1000% this.
forgot to mention this yesterday. I arrived in Pittsburgh last night to visit with some friends for the next 3 days. I'll try to take advantage of my time away from work to keep up
He agrees with Dom's assertions regarding my responses to Llama. Not sure why he didn't just say something about it to begin with.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:I'm going to go ahead and place my vote on bass to help MP out. To me he sounds like genuine, frustrated, overreacting, emotional, explosive, f u MP (Don't take any of these to heart buddy ) and I'd hate to see him go out for it yet again. Also, I like Golden's "case" on bass. :parrotsmilie:
Devin the Omniscient wrote:Golden wrote:Bass, put it like this.
You theorised that the recruiters were likely to be people who are known for always participating fully. That might take the heat of you as being a recruiter. I don't think you would be likely to make that statement if you were a civilian recruiter. You might if you were a baddie recruiter. I saw that statement as being likely neutral.
But, who is more likely to recruit the person admitting they aren't reading the thread?
It sounds a bit mean, but you've kind of admitted it yourself. You wouldn't make a great recruit. At least, not for the civilians who need to solve the game. But someone like that can also be very hard to lynch. Not a bad candidate for a baddie recruit.
In any event, with you I see a worst case scenario of being neutral, and that is ok with me. I'm trying to avoid lynching people who are civs. I don't think you are civ.
Before anyone asks, this is what I'm referring to.
Devin casts his D2 vote for Bass to help me out, citing several adjectives to characterize my behavior (finally!), and claims that he doesn't want me to leave the game after a bout of incredible frustration (again) -- to be fair, Devin is referencing the fact that in many of the games we've played together, I've had similar moments of frustration and emotion amid intense suspicion surrounding me. In those situations, and vice versa since Devin's meta generally attracted some attention in his past games, he and I were typically quick to defend each other. So the fact that he comes to my defense again here for the same behavior is at least consistent with what he's done in prior games, mostly as civilian (off hand, Devin was definitely civilian in previous games we've played together, maybe even all of them, but I'm unsure).
Yellow: Devin cites a post by Golden for his vote on Bass, yet also mentioned that he was voting for Bass to "help me out".
Devin the Omniscient wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:
Devin - I love the guy, but he's hardly posted any substantive content, and failed to deliver on questions I asked him from early in the game. What do folks think of him?
Yeah I'm sorry about this. I'm trying to go through and see if I missed anything I need to address before my friends and I head out for an afternoon full of activities. Please let me know what questions I missed or forgot to respond to. I am in way over my head in this game but I don't want to be replaced and I don't want it to be the reason that I skate by (hopefully people understand what I mean by this and don't put words in my mouth).
In response to me calling him out and trying to get opinions on him, Devin seems apologetic, cites that he is busy (which, again, I can attest to, particularly since he's a personal friend of mine outside the game), and is willing to address any questions he missed or forgot to respond to. Which is a great sentiment... only, he's never really elaborated upon any of the assertions he made in previous posts (except for throwing out a handful of adjectives describing my behavior): such as why he wouldn't vote for either Golden or Epi, what exactly was suspicious about BWT in Bioshock and why he has not mentioned the suspicion again even once since his D1 vote and my questioning of him, etc.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:Agreed. Voting Golden He is the subject/cause of 90% of my catch up.
. Devin votes for Golden on D3, without posting practically any content, because "he is the subject/cause of 90% of my catch up". Yet Devin said earlier he wouldn't vote for either Golden or Epi, never explained why, and has now apparently done a 180, yet again without any explanation. This absolutely must be explained. Oh, but wait, Devin gave reasons?
Devin the Omniscient wrote:REASONS:
Golden wrote:Thank you, Lorab. No-one should feel they are obligated to give me a pass for a day, but my self-vote definitely came from a place of feeling helpless because it felt like I already had a whole bundle of guaranteed votes plus I wasn't going to be around to defend.
Plus, I've realised that I can turn this around by actually catching Azura, and my lynch is not necessarily inevitable, so now that's what I'm focussed on. If its someone like rey, and they are lynched and flip, it would then be obvious it isn't me killing epi.
reywaS wrote:Golden wrote:I would ask those who are less inclined to feel absolutely certain of me, like lorab and timmer, to consider giving me a pass today given I won't be around a whole lot more for robust conversation and defence. I ask this because I get the strong sense that (because I won't be around) I'm going to be the easy location for drive by votes at end of day.
It's ultimately up to you guys, but if you really want to lynch me more on a hunch or being the 'best option' than anything else, I'd really like if it can be on a day where I can have proper conversation around it, more than I'll be able to today.
Are you shitting me, Golden? So...give you a pass and lynch me instead...is that it?
For fuck's sake, man.
Actually, everyone please take Golden's advice and give him a pass because he isn't going to be around to defend himself anymore than he already is.
Seriously, lynch me. I really don't think that I was ready to come back to mafia yet...especially not in such a large game. I think I probably should have started with a small game. I'm getting way too worked up and seeing this post has really grated on my nerves.
Vote: reywaS and I urge the rest of you to do the same.
^^^ Focus on the Golden quote here.
S~V~S wrote:I have got to say that today has been the MOST emotionally manipulative day I have ever read, lol.
I am happy with my vote where it is.
Boomslang wrote:JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey Boomslang!
Vote Boomslang
aapje is going to murder me
I'm sorry, I didn't think I had to defend my points on Golden when the guy is literally asking to be lynched. That's all I needed to know for today, honestly.
*votes Golden*
Here are his "reasons", where he just quotes four posts (one each by Golden himself, reywaS, S~V~S, and Boomslang) and adds no original thinking whatsoever.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Devin the Omniscient wrote:Also, skimmed through 13 pages and saw nothing for the Boomslang votes. Please halp
Click on my post history and find the big ISO from today.
Much appreciated, although I'm not sure how I missed that one before :/
I get the arguments there, but I feel more comfortable with my vote being where it is.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Is Golden being such a distraction entirely his fault? What of the people forcing him into that position including Epignosis?
Who is forcing him into this position. He has been posting and acting the same way since the whole back and forth with Epi started, and I would argue that not even Epi "forced" him to behave that way. This is supposed to be a game, and when you start being emotionally manipulative, you've taken it too far.
Also, Golden had quite a bit more votes before voting for himself on 2 separate occasions during this day phase. That alone makes me feel great about my vote.
Roxy wrote:Devin the Omniscient wrote:
Lots of reasons too bad none are yours.
MP - what are you on about? Your vote looks shady as all get out.
I'm a parrot, this is know
I demand a parrot smilie!!!
MovingPictures07 wrote:Well, I'm absolutely bad. Go ahead and vote for me. Golden and I are baddie teammates. I'm 100% serious. I'm voting Golden because I've sloppily tried to bus him and you all caught me. Nice job!
Don't start that crap now. It doesn't work. I've tried
wefewence cwapface mafia
Also, normal, insane MP is normal 
Will not be voting for him any time soon.
Devin says he "gets the arguments" with Boomslang, but feels more comfortable with his vote where it is (Golden).
But he's never explained why. Argh!!
Yellow: Devin argues that Golden has not been forced into any position, that being emotionally manipulative is too far, and that Epi never even contributed to Golden being in any position. So why then did Devin never want to vote for Golden or Epi before???! This is alarmingly inconsistent.
Red: Devin defends me against Rox during my crazy D3 antics, saying "insane" MP = normal MP.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:Devin the Omniscient wrote:
Who is forcing him into this position. He has been posting and acting the same way since the whole back and forth with Epi started, and I would argue that not even Epi "forced" him to behave that way. This is supposed to be a game, and when you start being emotionally manipulative, you've taken it too far.
Also, Golden had quite a bit more votes before voting for himself on 2 separate occasions during this day phase. That alone makes me feel great about my vote.
This should have been written in
bullsuit brown.
Because it's bullsuit.
You're full of suit 
I call Devin out on the Yellow just above, calling it bullsuit, but he responds with a jokey response saying I'm full of "suit". Was Devin just hoping I'd drop the accusation or did he not realize I was being serious? I wish I had pushed him more on this, but this ISO should at least get him to come out and play.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:Wording corrections:
Scotty wrote:He says that Golden has been acting emotionally manipulative all game,
and no one spurred that on.
You say "no one spurred that on." I said no one "forced him." Huge difference. Obviously it was in response to someone. But he could have taken a better approach. Plus Golden had votes on him before self-voting, which looked like a more suspicious situation.
Yup 
Devin hasn't offered much to the party so far, and his explanation for the vote is a very simple one. Also very lazy.
"Lazy?"
Psh. Try busy.
Scotty wrote:Hope to finish this up tomorrow with Boom, who I think just voted out of survival' sake (which in and of itself is funny because he voted himself as a joke and look where it got him)
I would have done the same in his shoes.
Note here that Devin went out of his way to say he would have saved himself if he were in Boomslang's shoes. This is important because of the following few posts he makes.
Devin the Omniscient wrote:I agree. Boomslang will not be getting my vote.
Placeholder placed
Devin says that Boomslang will not receive his D4 vote,
but doesn't explain why. And votes himself as a "placeholder".
Devin the Omniscient wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:Sorsha, I was actually going to pull some quotes, but it seems Scotty has beaten me to the punch!
In short, I suspect you heavily for your lack of activity (though I understand the RL reasons for early on), and then mostly your behavior surrounding Golden. It's very WIFOMy, soft defending him, and perfect for someone wanting to take advantage of Golden but still sitting in the sidelines.
Yup. I was planning to
change my vote to Sorsha and just did. Scotty has some compelling arguments in his mega post. But it was a Wilgy post that made me want to vote for Sorsha to begin with. Let me see if I can find it.
Linki: mega post number 2.
Now, once Scotty came out with his Sorsha ISO and I placed my support, Devin says that he was "planning" to change his vote to Sorsha. If so, why didn't he mention it earlier? He echoes that Scotty has compelling arguments, but never says what is so compelling about them, or points to any specifics.
To be fair, he does finally point to a specific with the DrWilgy post in his most recent post:
Devin the Omniscient wrote:DrWilgy wrote:Sorsha wrote:Thats a good question Wilgy.. was it a frame or was it the result of a redirect (Ahriman), target switch (Master of Ancient Arts), switching three roles powers (Chaos Dancer) or a repel of kill to the Magnetarch?
Do you think Golden was framed Wigly? And why did you vote for me? Also, what are your thoughts on the day ending early and no night?
Also, good dance around my question here, I feel like you slipped though. If Epig's death was simply a frame, I think you would be pursuing those who were going after him. I also think you wouldn't have voted Tiny when the votes were so stacked on Golden. You rose the question of if it could be a redirect. The only peole that can answer that question are the people that cast the kill and the person who caused the redirect. Which one are you Sorsha?
This is the one. I found Sorsha's response to Wilgy's unquoted question very odd, and totally agree with his response to her.
Sorry for the lack of original thought here. I have somewhere to be very soon.
Devin said Sorsha's response was "odd" and totally agreed with DrWilgy's response, again skirting any responsibility for coming up with his own reasons for a vote. Again.
He even acknowledges a lack of original thought.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I really want to know: What do you all think?
Is Devin an intentionally evasive, bandwagoning-hopping recruiter/recruitee, a neutral just willing to go with the flow, or a civilian completely drowning amid a busy RL?
it a bit?
