The Syndicate

Great game, everyone! It was such a shame to lose when I felt so close to figuring everything out! I was not at all prepared for the possibility of 4 baddies, though.

And I was right about llama and Epi! I guess maybe I SHOULD trust my gut more, after all. I was really nervous about following it, even though I was trying to play more gut-based.

I actually never once successfully role checked anyone. Maybe if I had voted more we'd have had a fighting chance.

Thanks once again to Roxy for letting me back in the game! It was an awesome reintroduction to mafia, and you did a terrific job hosting it.

No one, that's who!

I'm going with Ronnie. Because someone has to. And who doesn't love a good sax solo?

Ugh, RIP Mongoose . Whether there are 2 or 3 baddies left, we are all in trouble big time. I hope we can have a nice big discussion come morning.

By the way, this does make me think there must be only 2 left. Perhaps Rox would keep the game going if civs were outnumbered, but only if there was vote manipulation, and we haven't seen any sign of civ vote manips yet (iirc this is the second time a civ has been lynched on a tied vote). I don't know if that means there are baddie manipulations, if baddies win ties automatically, or if we've had bad luck, but I think if someone dies tonight the game may well be over.

MovingPictures07 wrote:For what it's worth, I really don't think you're baddie. Mongoose MIGHT be, but I really don't think so. Epig and DP are possibilities. Hedge I'm almost sure is, though I'm trying to consider all the possibilities, and I'm still even nervous about her.

Thanks for making me a target, MP. This bit certainly could have waited until morning.

I will say, though, that MP is officially making me nervous now. The early vote despite his nervousness still strikes me as strange. If DP flips bad I think Hedge is the obvious choice for tomorrow. If he flips civ I may have a hard time deciding between Hedge and MP.

Not finger-pointing, MP. Just asking. You have to admit it's unlike you to not elicit has much discussion as you possibly can, and we didn't know about the work stuff until today.

Voting DP. I haven't seen anything from 'Goose to make me suspicious yet, and voting anyone besides those two gives the baddies a great shot at controlling the lynch. Here's hoping.

Yeah, I'm with Epi on that one. I've been made to understand that holding discussion until the Day period and waiting to vote until the Day's discussion has begun is standard mafia protocol. Not sure what to make of those 2 quick votes.

I'm not sure what to think about who to vote today. If anyone besides DP is to be lynched, it will have to be unanimous among the 4 remaining voters, and since 3 of those would be Epi, DP, and Hedge, that prospect makes me very nervous indeed.

MP and 'Goose, why did you guys vote so early? Mind explaining? And MP, I noticed you responded with incredulity to Hedge's defense, but didn't address any points brought up. Mind explaining what about the defense post itself made you more sure about your case than you already were?

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:Actually, it's weird that DP voted Hedge so early. It doesn't necessarily mean anything, though. He could be looking to earn brownie points whether he's bad or good....

Please read my vote post again.

Fair enough, DP. I am very sorry if my post came off as callous; that was in no way my intention. I actually didn't even mean to question the timing of your vote at all, just the fact that you were willing to vote Hedge after only MP had discussed it. I didn't make that nearly clear enough in my post, though. I'm very sorry if I hurt your feelings in any way. I wish your great-grandfather and the rest of your family the best during what I'm sure is a difficult time.

Mongoose, I also hope that your friend is ok.

I'm very torn, but I'm voting for once. Hedge it is.

Hope we get a bad one.

Actually, it's weird that DP voted Hedge so early. It doesn't necessarily mean anything, though. He could be looking to earn brownie points whether he's bad or good....

Ugh! I hate being this confused this late in a game. If I'm right and we're 4-2, then we can't really afford to spread the vote, so if we don't wanna lynch Hedge we'd have to be unanimous about it. So other people come online and talk!

^ (The only problem with that is, one of them is Hedge and another is Epi, and I don't love either of their chances of being good.)

I don't necessarily trust MP, either, but his case looks convincing, and I don't see how he would throw a teammate under the bus with only 2 of them left.

Yeah, I definitely think llama was bad, after reading through his posts as well.

Hedge, since you're here, mind commenting on MP's case against you? I find it very compelling. S~V~S died after an argument with llama, and BWT died after voting you...

DP also makes me very nervous. On Day 1, llama's only post not about me involved defending juliets from DP (see below). If I were bad, the payoff for this seems better if one of the two is civ and one is bad. If DP eventually dies, juliets likely thinks I'm civ, and if juliets dies, everyone thinks I was protecting her from the big bad baddie. On the other hand, if both are civ, going after DP for such a weak reason can only make me look bad if he is later lynched or NKed.

thellama73 wrote: I am voting for DisgruntledPorcupine, because it is traditional and because he randomized and because he went after juliets, who am liking at the moment for being an interesting participant. I would like to add that I am not inclined to believe everything that Mr. D says, since I do not think Roxy would include a character that would just out people as bad. It wouldn't be fair. So I don't take Mr. D's eye in juliets' direction to mean anything.

And here llama mentions both Hedge and DP together. It may not mean anything, I just thought it was worth posting.

thellama73 wrote:I reread hedge, and DP (I do not think juliets is bad) and I'm not seeing enough in either of them to deter my intentions. Hope you enjoy my vote, MP!

Admittedly, there's really no case that both DP and Hedge are bad. However, I think it's nearly impossible that neither of them are. Epi is still also making me nervous, so if only 1 of them is I'll likely look at him next.

Quote fail, but hopefully you see what I mean.

Roxy wrote: someone who needed an Emotional Rescue sliced his throat. "Damn that felt good" the voice now sounding sweet and sing songy.

"Oh Fuck" a man said as he found a box ticking at his door.
***************Kablooey**********splat*******

Emotional stepped from the elevator just in time to be slapped in the face with someones brain tissue!

"Well I did feel better for a second..."

Teeth is dead. Llama has been exploded and dead.

MP, I think Llama was bad because of the quotes I highlighted. The Emotional killed BWT, felt good, and then stepped out of the elevator and didn't feel good after seeing llama explode. It just doesn't read right to me that a serial killer would be happy one person died, but sad to see another one die right after, unless there was some reason. It read to me as if llama were the killer's teammate. If so, we still have a fighting chance.

So the way I read that night post, it looks like Teeth was NKed by a baddie, and llama was a baddie who got exploded? Please let me know if you guys agree with that assessment. RIP Teeth, in any case. I'll be looking for links to llama today (assuming I didn't completely misread the post or something).

RIP juliets.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Shit. That sucks so bad. It still says 6:52 on my computer. Grrrrr.

Well, I honestly don't know who I would have voted, still.

Sounds like someone needs to change their settings to show the seconds in the time for each post. It's helped keep me from missing votes.

I definitely we be doing that now. me----->:derp:

Oh, god. I hate myself. I got trapped in linkitis and my vote didn't go through.....I meant to vote DP. Epi was my first choice, but he clearly wasn't being lynched. Ugh....I am so horrible. Sorry to everyone and to Rox, yet again.

Epi, are there not 3 baddies? I thought Roxy said so. I'll have to recheck.

I'm surprised that you guys are surprised that juliets voted DP, she's been talking about it all day.

I could see the baddies being MP, DP, and juliets. I could also see them being Epi and the Lizzy voters who weren't DP and juliets. I could see juliets and DP not being on the same team, and there are lots of other possibilities too. Hopefully this lynch will be super informative.

Epignosis wrote:

Mongoose wrote:

Epignosis wrote:The Lizzy votes came in BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM 1-2-3-4 like a band getting ready to play. They came in right when llama voted for MovingPictures.

That's the first thing that sticks out to me.

Indeed, indeed. I don't know exactly how to connect the dots though. Do you have any interpretation(s)?

That's the thing- it's all so circumstantial. One or two in that crew have to be rotten. That's when I look through the posts and am like the bear that went over the mountain.

Epi, are you saying here that you think the Lizzy vote were intended to nip any push for MP in the bud? And I know saying "it's gut" doesn't give you much chance at defense, so I'm sorry for that. I'm still not set on voting you, if that makes you feel any better.

MP, to answer your question, I really can't peg any one thing in Epi's posts that makes me blame him. There's his A Person vote, which I have a hard time criticizing him for, and then it seems to me that he was the one pushing most strongly to look at Lizzy voters, which is a place I said I wouldn't be looking too hard. Lizzy voters comprise nearly half of those of us left, and I think it'd be easy for a baddie to say "let's get those bad Lizzy voters; they killed a civ!" and then subtly point us to the civs in that group. Admittedly, it's not damning evidence. It just still makes me nervous.

I am sure about 2 things: 1) there are baddies among us. 2) There are 3 of them.

Linki with Roxy--I also am curious about your thoughts, Big D!

juliets, I actually feel worst about Epi right now. That's almost purely gut feeling. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a particular action that has pinged me.

However, I am still worried my fears of him are based too much on Bioshock and not enough on Rolling Stones, and I'd hate to lynch him if he's not bad. If I don't go for Epi, you and DP seem the obvious candidates. I'm not as sure as I'd like to be about any of the 3 of you, but I am absolutely committed to voting for someone in this poll, and no other names have truly caught my eye so far.

Mr. D wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:MP: yes.

llama: Please address your future posts to me in sarcastic orange, since they are clearly sarcastic. Feel free to be a dick, but at least follow site protocol.

Sarcastic orange is reserved for the dead in this game, since the hostess stole the dead color. May I suggest a different color for sarcasm this game? Something really obnoxious and hard to read...like this!

Mr. D, I like your suggestion of painting sarcasm black!

I'm slightly bummed that I'm finally around to vote and/or discuss suspicions and no one is talking! Who are people thinking of voting?

MP: yes.

llama: Please address your future posts to me in sarcastic orange, since they are clearly sarcastic. Feel free to be a dick, but at least follow site protocol.

RIP, S~V~S! I too am really puzzled by the choice of kill. It seems some suspicion was being directed at her.

Mongoose, let's do crank up the double entendres!

To address some of MP's thoughts, since he addressed me specifically a few times: I personally will still be keeping a weather eye on llama. Whether others have enough reason to do so is up to them. I do think his insanification makes him look less likely to be bad, even though it wouldn't be the first time a baddie has faked or targeted a teammate.

I did say I would be giving less weight to vote records, but a possible juliets-DP connection is somewhat compelling. I think juliets seems a nice enough teammate to want to keep everyone around on Day 1, even if it means risking her own neck. However, what really gets me with that is still: why S~V~S? I agree with MP's idea that she was probably targeted for a specific reason, rather than the baddie equivalent of randomizing. I disagree with 'Goose that they probably knew her role. (Unless there's something you're not telling us that you'd like to come clean about, 'Goose?) On the surface seems either a poor attempt to frame llama, or a possible double cross as (I think 'Goose?) suggested.

The other thing that makes me nervous about DP and juliets is this: as I said yesterday, one of my favorite ploys as a baddie is to trick a civvie in voting a fellow civvie (or especially being the deciding vote) and then convincing everyone to bandwagon onto that civvie. It gets 2 civs dead and wastes a bunch of time, during which my team can scheme and NK and such. So if I were a baddie, I would for sure want to frame juliets and/or DP and maybe get lucky enough to waste 3 days (counting yesterday). The problem with that, again, is: why not just sit back and let S~V~S take the heat? The only answer I can come up with is that the baddies weren't convinced S~V~S would take enough heat, or that things would change between night and the lynch.

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm talking in circles, but I think the questions we need to ask ourselves are: who would have been under suspicion (besides S~V~S) today if she had not been killed? And, if DP and juliets aren't bad (That's a big if; I'm still very much considering that they are.) who stands to benefit from/has been directing suspicion onto them?

My thoughts at this moment: I think llama clearly fits the first question, though as I said his insanification makes me feel a little better. The frame job thing could go either way. Occam's Razor says he was framed, but we know llama loves his complex mafia gambits.

I think Epi has been the one looking closest at juliets and DP lately, and MP mentioned likely voting juliets as well. Others may also be thinking they're bad and just not have posted it yet, so it may be a fluke of timing, but those two have caught my eye. The fact that other apparently get the heebie-jeebies from Epi right now also disconcerts me.

I would LOVE to hear if others have ideas about who would have drawn suspicion today along with S~V~S if she hadn't been the one killed, and about who would want to get DP and juliets lynched.

juliets wrote:To answer a question posed earlier I'm not looking at the Day 1 votes at this point. I don't see anything there though I might later.

I think MP is right in guessing Lizzy voted for SVS because she disagreed with llama. I hope she comes back with more than that because right now she's niggled me. There may be other things that crop up later with other people but so far this has my eye.

Also, what is with all the "Sympathy" covers? I did that one because I didn't think anyone else would! Boy was I wrong.

Juliets' voting record looks the worst so far (unless someone I missed is tied with her?). I'm trying to use voting records less though, because looking back I think it's gotten me into trouble in the past. Can others confirm whether my understanding of the Day 2 action is correct? S~V~S and llama had a big fight, as usual. Lizzy voted S~V~S for disagreeing with llama, and a bunch of people voted Lizzy for voting S~V~S. S~V~S, meanwhile, voted Hedge for an unrelated reason. If so, it seems to me that baddieness was almost certainly involved in the death of Lizzy. Do I think it was S~V~S's fault? Not necessarily. Her posts read as pretty uprighteous to me so far. However, I could see the attractiveness to a baddie of being in the position of "well, sure, Lizzy died, but I didn't vote for her so it's not really my fault." Will I be voting S~V~S tomorrow because of it? Doubtful, unless something big happens, but I will keep an eye on her.

I agree that it is strange that on Day 2 so many people sided with S~V~S so readily. Maybe they agreed with her position in the argument with llama, I'm not sure. I am leery of revenge-lynching a Lizzy voter at this point.

Surprisingly, thus far I haven't been pinged by BWT, which is weird because he ALWAYS pings me. So I'm not sure what that means.
Epi makes me nervous, but I think that's still an aftereffect of the Bioshock game, which I still haven't entirely gotten over the shock of.

Sorry I don't have more solid ideas of who should go! I just wanted to get my thoughts down in the thread for now. I'll continue to ponder.

I guess 10! And it's gotta be drums. They go with bass.

Llama thing was posted only because some asked, by the way. Hopefully looking over the other action that has been happening will yield other suspicions.

UGH. Just lost 2 huge posts in a row. Attempt #3:

I am extremely sorry for missing lynch poll #2. Totally inexcusable. Rox, I'd still like to play but if you have a willing replacement I understand if you call them in now.

I think the Cockney thing looks like insanification.

thellama73 wrote: I could have made no posts and been all "derpy derp I don't know. Randomized," and avoided all scrutiny, but I think that is a lazy way to play and it is not my style. If you don't like me coming after you, be around to defend yourself.

My llama thing is this: he has preached accountability (alongside me) in every game we've played together. He wanted to vote me off as an absentee, which gives only slightly more accountability than randomizing. It allows one to blame the victim (see the bolded above) instead of giving true reasons for lynching, and gets a civ dead. So either he actually has an enormous pet peeve about no-shows on Day 1, it was expedient to try to have me killed, or both.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Wow, so glad to see Russ here and in full presence! Great to play a game with you again, good sir!

Am I interpreting your posts correctly in that you would currently say Llama is your top suspicion, or is that incorrect?

Regarding spreads vs. not on Day 1, I would think spread votes would be in a baddie team's favor more so than a straight up lynch. They can much more easily control the vote and avoid a Day 1 baddie lynch and cause some chaos. However, they could also run the risk of outing themselves, so that's a consideration. Additionally, a not spread vote can give very little information, especially when it is a civvie lynch, and many baddies can bandwagon. So I guess it does depend on strategy and what actually happens.

Thanks, MP, 'Goose, and S~V~S! What a warm welcome. It's nice to be back. Yay for no death! And since I missed his death, RIP A Person. I've seen you lurking around the thread, and I hope we can avenge you.

Yes, I would say llama is my top suspicion for now. (Again, I admit I may be biased because his attack happened to be on me. I also just find it very un-llama-like.)

I think I'm also saying that a spread Day 1 lynch might be good precisely BECAUSE baddies control it more often than not. In almost every game I've played, you gumshoes have ferreted out who's doing the controlling and lynched them, which is very bad for the baddies indeed.

Llama, fair enough. I read your posts after being told not to vote me by Roxy as being frustrated that you could not vote for me, whereas you apparently were really frustrated by having nothing else concrete, which I can understand. I do, however, agree with S~V~S that "He didn't post, so it's his own fault I voted for him!" is only marginally better than "random.org made me do it." in terms of avoiding blame, so I'm just surprised that you wanted to vote me at all. It seems un-llama-like. But your playstyle is your playstyle, and I can't dictate it to you nor read your mind.

Hi Hedge! Now I need to come up with some insulting names for you in case we get in a fight, because you already seem really well-prepared. I don't know if anything can top Mr. cRusstipants. That poor PE teacher....

Thanks for the clarification, juliets. I'm not sure I agree that baddies like big vote spreads on Day 1. In my experience, yes, a civ almost always dies, but when I've been bad it's always been a nightmare for my team to decide where to put votes so we aren't actually the ones who kill the unlucky civ, because Day 2 is a revenge lynch as often as not. It actually seems to me that a tie is the best possible outcome for civs on Day 1. We learn about lynch mechanics and/or vote manipulations, and sometimes no one dies. However, that's all fairly academic at this point. Now that I'm hopping back into mafia I'm trying to get new perspectives and not play just like I did before. I appreciate your willingness to explain, and for now I have no reason to doubt you.

Well, there doesn't seem to be a whole ton of a lot to go on. Hedgeowl, I thought your Scottish joke was hilarious, but I'm onto your strategy of seeming nonthreatening by having the cutest possible avatar. I liked your thoughts about civs having the same conditions as each other but being somewhat LMS-y; it made me think about the game differently.

Something struck me as a teensy bit off about juliets, but I'm far from certain she's bad. I guess I was just minorly pinged by her saving her vote so early and then randomizing and getting A Person.

I do agree with llama about one thing (something both I and he have said many times before and probably will many times again): I think accountability in votes is super important for civs to be able to win. That's the main reason I'm sorry for missing Day 1; you guys basically have no read on me yet. It's also why I'm so bummed that A Person was voted off with 2 random votes (and one vote from Epi, the reason for which I wasn't 100% clear on).

thellama73 wrote:

Russtifinko wrote: I'm curious why you seemed so stuck on me. I counted 5 posts where you mentioned wanting to vote for me, and iirc 2 of those came AFTER Rox told you I was being modkilled anyway. Why the crusade? And "doesn't show respect for the game or the host?" Really? That if nothing else actually does strike me as personal.

I could have made no posts and been all "derpy derp I don't know. Randomized," and avoided all scrutiny, but I think that is a lazy way to play and it is not my style. If you don't like me coming after you, be around to defend yourself.

I also think that, while we're talking about accountability, your response here is just silly, llama. The rest of it, sure, fine. Since it was actually 2 days (Day 0 and 1) I feel you're somewhat more justified in wanting me gone. However, if we're talking about "lazy ways to play" and "not your style", then going after the only person not defending themselves takes the cake. Especially after you find out that person will be modkilled and their role won't be revealed. It's absolutely the antithesis of accountability, because no one will know whether your actions are noble, malicious, or just indifferent until the game is over.

I'm saying this because you and I have argued for accountability in voting in almost every game I've played with you. It's just so blatantly against everything you stand for in early-game mafia that it really makes me question your civvieness.

That was obviously my biggest ping/niggle (thanks for the vocabulary expansion, juliets) of the past day. I'll admit up front that it's biased, but it doesn't mean it's not suspicious. Looking for others now.

I think I'll try Box D, by the way. My name starts with a D, D's stand for "Don't have to take this class again.", etc. Basically everything good in life starts with a D. (Except ice cream, but that's a Dessert, so it still kind of counts.)

Hello everyone! I'm sorry for my tardiness, especially for Roxy's sake. Thanks a lot for letting me back into what looks to be an exciting game! And thanks to the Sockmeister for alerting me that we had started. Somehow I didn't receive an email like I usually do when I get PM'ed; hopefully you guys won't think too much less of me.

Pretty strong words from llama, here!

thellama73 wrote:There is a difference between a low poster and someone who has not even checked in. I have no patience for people who refuse to play at all, and I want them voted out. Always. Since I can't know their alignment on Day 1 (I dispute the notion that goodies are more likely to be inactive than baddies) I would rather get rid of someone who is not playing than someone who is. On a case like today, I felt that everyone has an equal chance of being bad, so why not go for someone who doesn't show respect for the game or the host?

I could decide not to take this personally, but it seems more fun to be argumentative. Llama, I see your point about wanting people who refuse to play out, but on Day 1? You're not even willing to give someone one day to check in and to find out the game has started?? I'm curious why you seemed so stuck on me. I counted 5 posts where you mentioned wanting to vote for me, and iirc 2 of those came AFTER Rox told you I was being modkilled anyway. Why the crusade? And "doesn't show respect for the game or the host?" Really? That if nothing else actually does strike me as personal. You've played with me plenty of times and know damned well that I do my best to respect the game. I don't recall if you've ever hosted me (besides in Minimalism Mafia now), but I do put a lot of thought into my posts, try to make the game enjoyable for others, and express gratitude to the hosts for putting in what I know is an incredible amount of work. So in the politest way possible, BACK OFF.