The Syndicate

Dom wrote:you need a xanax or something jesus christ

Who told you what the prizes were ?

Keys, did you see my previous post in response to you?

Chris wrote:Well Hedgie, I noticed that Sabie seemed to be a little too good at picking the baddies. I was pretty certain she was bad.

From there, I just tried to to other people to her based on their votes and posts.

It's definitely not fool proof, but we weren't getting anywhere with the Cybers.

At least we got a start...

While I got you here Hedgie... what do you think about DFaraday? you and keys voted for him on day 7. But then I made a decent case on Sable. Are you considering revisiting your Faraday suspicions? Are they still valid?

LINKI @ Epig: No u.

I think the voting records you pointed out for possible Cybers are definitely interesting. It just seems like a team wouldn't all vote together that much, but mix it up more. I think it likely we find 1, maybe 2 from bass, snow, and Epi, but not that all three are cyber. What interested me in DF in the first place was the early knowledge of made and Enri as teammates. I saw several people mention that and thought it was an interesting leap that felt very confirmed in the failed Made lynch with his self-vote. However, I wasn't convinced it had to be Epi based on his earlier suspicion of Enri. He also never spelled it out the way DF did. Right now I need to look DF over again in light of Sabie before I will know how I still feel.

I am confused, is biblios where the doctor first meets river song? Cause that was a pretty upsetting result, no? But who doesn't love books?

Chris - you were all over the Sabie thing, and I agree with some connections you are making, but my brain is about to explode from the different ideas. I dont even know where to start. If it helps you to post ideas as you go, then go for it. When you reach some clarity, a short summary post would be helpful of your thoughts for me at least.

keys56000000000 wrote:I don't think Sonw Dog or Epignosis are mafioso. Chris, I think you're reaching.

My suspects for Sabie's teammates are:
DF,
Gotrees,
Hedgeowl,
in no particular order.

one of the reasons Epi, Snow, bass, Elo, Ninjablooper seem like possible Cybers is they didnt vote Sabie. I think it's possible that one of the Cybers could be in the last few voters for her, so possibly, DF, Dom, or LC. I didn't see a vote from gotrees, so a possibility there as well. I voted 7th of 10 for sabie, so you can interpret that as you will, but when I posted my intention to vote for her she only had 4 votes. However, I think those who didnt vote Sabie open up the most likely group to find Cybers.

I have wondered about DF for sure, but I don't know currently about him. Snow dog still has my interest, and I am wondering more about Epi, although I find myself appreciating his current posting. Lol.

Super awesome result! Bye sabie! You made it so much longer as a baddie this game. Well played.

Welcome back MP! It finally feels like there's some hope of finding cybers.

Chris wrote:I still don't have the most posts in here by a long shot. I'm number 3, almost a 100 posts behind a dead Zeek, and he's almost 100 pages behind MP.

:o

With MP's return you may never "catch-up" lol.

Chris wrote:Hedgie voted

although I do have a history of posting and forgetting to vote.

Dom wrote:
Chris wrote:
Dom wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:How does Chris's case make sense for Sabie being a Dalek? I don't see that angle.
The Daleks would have wanted to delay Made's lynch, no? They would have wanted to keep that under wraps so Made wouldn't be NK'd, right?
I think the Daleks would have wanted to delay it, yes. But I think that if the Cybers knew that they couldn't kill Made with a lynch, they knew they could kill Rico. So they all switched to Rico. If they had managed to lynch Rico the day Made was lynched, then we tried to lynch Made the next day, Strax wouldn't be able to NK him, and we'd waste another lynch on Made.

Or, like I said before, they could have just wanted to lynch someone who can die...
WHY?
Why wouldn't the Cybermen want to leave the thread mired in useless Made lynches?
This is the part that I am not following at all?

I think the important point is that Roxy a dalek voted for. Made over enri because he would survive. If sabie is a cyber and knew made AND enri's role then she would vote Enri necause he would actaully get lynched and have a role reveal, then the evidence would point to made again who had been defending him. Thats the theory that makes some sense to me. I am not totally convinced Epi might be a cyber, because of his initial suspicion of enri as epi. 1.0. I feel better about a sabie vote at this pojnt.

Linki i am wondering the same. Why not just want to lynch epi chris?

Dom wrote:So, Chris, this is what I don't understand-- what would Sabie, as a Cyberman, have to gain from stopping to vote for Made? I can see what she would have to gain as a Dalek, but not a Cyberman. I think you've made an excellent case that Sabie is a Dalek-- but she is not.

Well roxy voted for made between him and enri, so if the cybers really knew the roles and knew made would survive lynches then i could see why she would vote enri later. Early on the cybers would not necassiroly have checked Made, so that may have just been due to thread suspicions of him and going with the flow. I do find her voting strangely preditive based on what Chris pointed out. My initial concern of her was her seeming knowledge of made and Enrique being teammates yet apparently being very busy. It seemed like she had deeper or intuitive knowledge more than was warrented. Her tone and responses as several have noted have not made me feel better about her tbh.

Linki ok ya'll basically said the same. Keys- Didnt she switch from made to enri, not the other way around?

Linki omg posting

Chris wrote:
Dom wrote:This is already the longest Mafia thread by post count on the site, holy cow
I'm sorry.

mp and zeek started it.

S~V~S wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:SVS, where do you fall on the Chris+LC vs. Epi+Sabie spectrum?
I have seen more that makes me think LC is good rather than bad; I am rather paranoid of him, so I watch him pretty carefully. Something Chris said made me think he was very possibly civ. Becasue he can tend to be hyper eager, it can be easy to read him as bad. I think I was wrong when I thought he was bad, so i changed my vote.

Epi, on the other hand, I thought he was bad, and I have seen nothing that changed my mind. I have no read on Sabie, she seems kinda bewildered, which could be a ruse, or she really COULD be bewildered. She is reminding me of her One Direction gameplay, where I was pretty sure she was bad, and that was not the case.

So I suspect Epi most of those people. And I will post the roll eyes for him to save him the time

Also the Hedge/Roxy thing is interesting. It is hard to defend against other peoples actions, things you can't help, so I am not sure that anything Hedge says will make any difference. Recruiting someone who suspects you is a time honored tactic, especially if you do not have a kill at your disposal. I think a Roxy reread tonight is in order. I am sorry I was not around last night, we have a big family party today, and we were doing some set up, etc., last night, and I have to start getting ready now to leave in about 2 hours.

Has anyone said what prizes the dead baddie MM won?

LC just pulled off a masterful game in Python, so I don't think I can ever say he's 100% civ. idk what to think about Epi. Roxy was gunning for him, but I knew she was wrong about me, so trusting her gut wasn't on the top of my list. In light of her dalek/recruitment idk what to think, but going with what we know it doesn't appear that she would have special info. While I have technically been bad with Sabie she was lynched first day for a her vote, so I never got to see her baddie game. She is cricking my brow for sure though and has my attention.

Please do reread Roxy, I hope it will be helpful for the next step we take. I know there's only so much I can say, but truly from my perspective it didnt feel like she had dropped me. It felt like everyone, but Roxy had. If the thread had gone for me instead of Enri/Made I am sure she would have been happy to lynch me.

I haven't heard anything about prizes yet as the only living player to win, so we will see. Team zombies really carried the day.

Hedgeowl wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:How do does everyone feel about hedge? The reason I ask is because I thought it was strange how Roxy drop her Hedge suspicious almost altogether and saying the reason why she dropped them was because no one would listen to her. I think there is a chance that the real reason Roxy stopped talking about Hedge was because she was either recruited by Hedge or was recruited to a team with Hedge.
From my perspective it didnt feel like she had dropped her suspicion of me, but that the thread had. In hindsight knowing she was bad, I think she was busy with the Made/Enri lynchings, which basically took everyone's focus and there was no longer support to get me lynched. She then jumped on the chance to lynch Epi real quick, which considering he led the lynch of Enri with great certainty and she called him a role checker had a lot more thread support. I don't actaully think she did stop talking about me entirely, but I'd have to check.

Dom/Snow - I am posting my response to Bass here in case you missed it. Let me know if you have any questions. Chris pulled the last quote of Roxys that he called "clouding" of me, but I am not entirely sure what he meant by that. In actuality Roxy was the only one still talking about me I felt, with TH occasionally stil mentioning me with no questions.

S~V~S wrote:Bye MP~ and glad another civ protection showed up with all the survivals.

I love Beas polls

This poll is truly awesome. I sort of want to be Shrubhawk at some point.

RIP MP!

I am not surprised at the kill, but sad to lose one I thought was civ.

I had a post I was working on last night before falling asleep. I am going to finish that first.

Linki chris read your Roxy post and soem good points, and corrections needed I will address when back later this morning.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:How do does everyone feel about hedge? The reason I ask is because I thought it was strange how Roxy drop her Hedge suspicious almost altogether and saying the reason why she dropped them was because no one would listen to her. I think there is a chance that the real reason Roxy stopped talking about Hedge was because she was either recruited by Hedge or was recruited to a team with Hedge.

From my perspective it didnt feel like she had dropped her suspicion of me, but that the thread had. In hindsight knowing she was bad, I think she was busy with the Made/Enri lynchings, which basically took everyone's focus and there was no longer support to get me lynched. She then jumped on the chance to lynch Epi real quick, which considering he led the lynch of Enri with great certainty and she called him a role checker had a lot more thread support. I don't actaully think she did stop talking about me entirely, but I'd have to check.

Chris wrote:Another thing. I think Roxy was recruited a long time ago. She was a Dalek. Rico was a Dalek. The popular belief was that Made was a Dalek. Roxy went after the both of them somewhat early. She's a major reason Rico got lynched.

I think she was recruited early, then helped kill the rest of her team, and got the Dalek team kill to use for her and her recruiter.

Did The Master recruit her? He did target Rico on night 3. Then Made was lynched (the lynch failed tho) on day 4, and then MP was pushing for Strax to kill Made, and he did so, on night 4. Then Roxy was very vocal in a Rico lynch, and basically led it.

Was that the last of her Dalek teammates?

Oh shit.... is MP The Master??

How did MP vote in the MetalMarsh lynch?

Well done on the Roxy lynch. I am surprised the whole team is gone. This pretty much confirms Made for me too if not already.

This feels a bit like revisionist history to me Chris. Did Roxy "basically lead" the Enri lynch? I thought that was Epi, although I would like Epi's thoughts on this as well. That feels more like revenge for teammates now in light of her lynch and rolechecker suspicion of him. It might be useful to go through some of her posts even though the Daleks are gone with the recruitment aspect. For a sec I had to check this wasn't an MP game like Bioshock.

I feel sorry for the daleks a tiny bit if recruitment was what gutted the team as I, Snow dog, and DF, remember so well.

I think there is probably some reevaluatation necessary for everyone, but I bet the Cybers are all in a tizzy now too.

(not posted last night, but found on my computer this morning.

)

Linki chris I am going to read your post now

Linki bass I will address you as soon as I can post.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I voted chicken dinner because its sounds really good right now.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I voted winner winner chicken dinner because its sounds really good right now.

fixed.

voted.

(bea, maybe you are craving salad after your surgery, but I doubt it.)

DFaraday wrote:
Dom wrote:DFaraday, Hedge's post actually reminded me about something I meant to comment on earlier.

Can you explain the following:

In this post, you said you didn't see anything about Made that caused suspicion. You said nothing about Made seemed baddie.

What changed when you made this post? You didn't make any posts about Made in the interim. I'm confused as to how you got to that thought.
The bandwagon that led to Snow Dog 1.0's death read to me like a save attempt, and I still wonder whether it was. That was the biggest thing which sent me in Made's direction (then his inconsistent behavior and self vote just dug him deeper in my view).

Hedge, I don't have any real grounds for believing that they are teammates, but I did (and do) feel pretty confident that Made was bad, and I was wary of Enrqiue. I had a thought that the shenanigans yesterday might have been some kind of a ploy between the two of them to ensure Made's survival, and thus thought the teammates idea had some merit. The more I think about it, the less Enrique's NK survival makes sense in that scenario, though.

Before anyone says anything about it: Yes, I'm changing my view on something. Because I thought about it further and didn't come to the same conclusion as I did before.

Df - you asked for clarification on what i was wary of. It was your sureness of made an enri as teammies in thread, having not been very involved at all, and then the sudden thread takeover of the idea that they were teammates. When you were questioned about it you backtrack in this post, but then say that you rethought they are not teammates, after Made voted to save himself making it seem like a team save. Then you vote enrique the next lynch, but dont post why that i could find.

Overall reading throught df's posts he seems to leave the door open to suspecting everyone. The same in the Epi v. mm lynch. He voted mm, but still suspected epi. It justs doesnt feel right to me and i think you are cyber.

S~V~S wrote:Knowing which role you hinted at would go far for me, Chris. But I can't find it, I suck at in your face role hints, semi hints are beyond me.

I won't vote for Roxy, I at least suspect you. I am not getting the Roxy votes from people who don't seem to suspect her, and never mentioned her previously, like Ninjajujube. Snowy is being consistent in his Roxy suspish, but not sure where Ninjube is coming from.

I frankly dont know where the 180 on roxy happened. People are voting her for being insincere on Day 7? Chris did make a good point about the Epi voters, where did they all go? Her not being here you mentioned doesnt make it feel right, so no vote for me there. I would rather vote someone i suspect of being cyber and hear roxy's rebuttal, the same courtesy she gave me, even if she didnt believe me.

that said i would be willing to vote chris, as i still think he is likely the master, but zi would rather vote for someone i suspect as cyber like df, which it doesnt seem likely.

Linki so you think she is the cyber role checker chris? Everything you just said applies to Epi as well i assume. I get that people suspect her, but you are literally justifying your vote for her to save yourself, just like the no us you've been slinging all day.

keys56000000000 wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
keys56000000000 wrote:
keys56000000000 wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
keys56000000000 wrote:To be honest, I don't suspect Roxy much at all. I just feel very stronly that Chris is a civ, don't want to see another civ get lynched, and don't really have an alternative.

I don't there's any way to save Chris. Looks like the lynchtrain is at full speed, heh. Frustrated. Good for you guys. I think I'm going to shoot from the hip and vote DFaraday.
Well that's odd. Chris is civ so you don't care if another possible civ gets lynched?
I don't know if Rox is civ. I feel I know Chris is civ. Better odds, pun not intended.
And you know what, why are you even asking me that? I said in the same post that I was voting DFaraday! And how am I supposed to know who is civilian and who is mafia? I just have a good feeling about Chris. Isn't it wiser to avoid voting for the person you have a good feeling about? Y'know, if you want to win the game, as a civ?

I feel like I'm talking to a wall here.
Sorry didn't read that you changed your vote. What is your case on DF?
I don't have a case. As I said, just shooting from the hip. Maybe it's a subconscious thing, I don't know. I'm just trying to be a good civilian here.

At the very least, whether he's lynched or not, Chris and potentially other civvies have been compromised now, and will have targets on their backs. The game is looking bad for the civvie side whatever happens now. This is the difference between shooting ourselves in the food and in the leg. It's already bad. Let's not make it worse.

I brought up some points about dfaraday, did you read those? Honestly, I would probably vote him first today, but I need to catch up first.

Linki serisously chris, that is not a good argument.

Thanks bwt, so thats makes dfaradays point moot about Chris looking shadier.

Ffs stop posting!

MovingPictures07 wrote:Actually, you know what? Disregard what I said. I thought about this more. If Chris is The Master, he will just survive this lynch anyway. So if he is, maybe we should see if he gets NKed again. Additionally, the strict focus on him today, while it left less for me to catch up, makes it easier for baddies to just skate by today and latch onto a Chris vote. And although I really don't think he is Sarah Jane, or even Jack, there is the possibility that he is in fact that role and the first killer was blocked. AND although I think Chris's defense is very unconvincing and inadequate, at least in my opinion, I reserve the opinion that it means he could still be a lone civvie, just a very, very misguided one.

I've also been really thinking about Rox. Her recent fixation on Epig 2.0 even though she was being hypocritical... in an effort to seem like she's genuinely baddie hunting. Then I thought about why I found her suspicious REALLY early in the game and I just don't know that I think she's legitimately baddie hunting this game... maybe she is, but I think she honestly is our best lead at a Cyber at this point. The remainder of the game other than Epig 2.0, she has suspected Hedgeowl HARD but then dropped it completely and I've asked her SEVERAL TIMES why she has and she has failed to address my concern. I wonder if it was maybe distancing or a convenient target and she was hoping to drum up this case on Epig 2.0 instead. In addition, she latched onto mine and S~V~S's case that Daisy was bad earlier in the game because she was convinced the fact that both of us agreeing meant we were onto something. Her behavior has been really latchy and sneaky this game. If you don't believe me, go look for yourself and see if I'm right or off the mark.

Additionally, potentially cracking the Cybermen makes more sense. And a main reason I was sticking with Chris and not voting her today is because I haven't had the time to properly look back at Rox's posts. But I'm not going to let that make me ignore my gut. So you know what? Screw it. I really think Rox is bad. If Chris really is The Master, let another NK determine that. Let's not waste a lynch today, even if he is, because it'll just fail anyway, and then we'll have to either lynch him again or NK him.

On this note, again, I realize I haven't had the time to build a proper case, but I feel more confident in voting for Roxy. So I am switching my vote to her. I think people should look at her in more detail if they have the time.

NOW I really have to go because I have so much to do. Be back later!

I agree with your assessment on Chris at this point. I think it likely he's the master, but could wait until tomorrow for that one. I am a bit confused on your Epi vs Roxy suspicions though. You suspected Epi based on Roxys case, but now think it was weak and suspect her for it as a Cyber? I am not sure i understand how that works. I obviously missed your earlier suspicion of her though. As regards her suspicion of me i thought it was because i was so absent and she thought i was playing like lost where i double -crossed her. She did the same to me though in her recent baddie win by buddying up to me, so i tend to think her civ when she suspects me and refuses to listen to reason.

Linki epi as neutral? Do you mean like a sedret role?

Ok, so this is what i find interesting. This post was made by DF at 2:40pm. However, Epi and others have said the idea of made and Enri being teammates started with him.

DFaraday wrote:After finally catching up, I do find both Epi and Dom to make compelling points regarding their respective nemeses. However, I agree with SVS that Made was very likely saved, and I think that if Enrique is bad, he's teamed with Made. I feel more confident about Made being a baddie than Enrique overall though.

These posts that Epi quoted start at 6:31pm

Epignosis wrote:Enrique voted Made to save his own skin.

But Made hasn't voted Enrique.

And here 6:39pm. Well after DF has already mentioned the idea.

Epignosis wrote:Made has defended the shit out of Enrique. Enrique doesn't think Made is bad either. In a game with one bad team, defending civilians is a logical strategy if you are bad. In a game of two or more bad teams, defending "civilians" is a risk because you could wind up defending someone on the other team.

But when it comes down to the votes, now that it's clearly between Made and Enrique, Enrique is SWIFT to vote Made to save himself, but Made won't vote Enrique.

Huh.

Addendum: If you had a teammate who couldn't be lynched, you'd be okay voting for him, right?

So Epi what I am wondering is did the idea come from you before DF's post? Df did address my question below and seemed to change his mind about the possible teammates.

DFaraday wrote:
Dom wrote:DFaraday, Hedge's post actually reminded me about something I meant to comment on earlier.

Can you explain the following:

In this post, you said you didn't see anything about Made that caused suspicion. You said nothing about Made seemed baddie.

What changed when you made this post? You didn't make any posts about Made in the interim. I'm confused as to how you got to that thought.
The bandwagon that led to Snow Dog 1.0's death read to me like a save attempt, and I still wonder whether it was. That was the biggest thing which sent me in Made's direction (then his inconsistent behavior and self vote just dug him deeper in my view).

Hedge, I don't have any real grounds for believing that they are teammates, but I did (and do) feel pretty confident that Made was bad, and I was wary of Enrqiue. I had a thought that the shenanigans yesterday might have been some kind of a ploy between the two of them to ensure Made's survival, and thus thought the teammates idea had some merit. The more I think about it, the less Enrique's NK survival makes sense in that scenario, though.

Before anyone says anything about it: Yes, I'm changing my view on something. Because I thought about it further and didn't come to the same conclusion as I did before.

This was before he voted for enrique though and most of the thread seemed to agree they were very likely teammates after the save so i am a bit confused. I coudlnt find a vote post either. I am increasingly wary of dfarday and think him very likely a cyber.

Black Rock wrote:
Roxy wrote:Epi - what do you think of sabie saying she needs to read through things but knows enough to know that we are discussing lie detectors?
They would not waste 8 nights if they just check the one that says I am a good girl.
Actually, good girl is not a checkable statement. This type of behaviour is suspect to me. You were all over Epig for his statement, and yet you do the same type and want to be "Look, I'm a civvie. I have been ever so cooperative with a LD statement."

Epignosis wrote:Yes, I'm sure the lie detector would like to spend 8 Nights checking those.
This is a valid statement Roxy.

I know I'm a little late to the press on this one, but I don't understand how Roxy can have a valid argument when her statements suck just as much as Epigs.

A LD role was seriously one of the hardest roles i have had. It takes forever to comb through posts and find something checkable i found. I dont think most of anyones coerced statements are useful, but i dont know how bea and bwt set the limits. Epi has since made multiple statements of i am not a robot etc. but i just dont much faith in his or anyone elses statement. What did peak my interest was sabies vote for chris, but the previous roxy vote. She seems to have been sick, but flying under the radar seems particularly apt. I woukd be interested to hear more from her today.

sabie12 wrote:Hey guys still not feeling all that well. Anyway I'm gonna have to go through and read things. My current suspicion has been rox because she was so adament abiut the lie detector thing but wasn't making statements herself. Ill have to actually look backfor sure to make my decision though. Just want to have a vote in for now.

sabie12 wrote:So from the story it sounds like Chris survived 2 nks? That seems weird. Voting him for now. I'll have to check back in later. Off to work.

She made only two posts in between these, so i d like to know what happened to change her mind. It feels like she is voting the way the thread reads and not of her own volition.

Linki I think the role checker point roxy made was useful, but i am not sure it would be you i would look to first. I actually think df and snow have my attention there more.

I did love the "i was too close" line.

Chris wrote:
Dom wrote:Chris is not presenting a defense. He is suspecting anyone who looks at him which is the exact behavior he exhibited last time he was a serial killer. Please, keys, do tell me what is irrational in my thinking here?
Dom, you are the only one that I suspect only because you suspected me. Ando frankly, it's because you never suspected me before, but now you're certain enough to vote for me now over all previous suspects.

On a circumstantial case.

Oh, and Hedge for the exact same reason.

Wait, so dom is the only one, except me? And what about LC?

Epignosis wrote:I've been trying to maintain an open mind here, but the following posts are contradictory:

Chris wrote:I went for Epig without much reason other than I was tired of hearing about the lie detector shit, and he was acting differently enough for me to vote him just to end it. It wasn't a great reason, but I also didn't care who was lynched between the two of them.

Chris wrote:We were all set to lynch Epig, let's do that. If you still think that I'm bad after that, then lynch me.
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 430#p90430

So let me get this straight: You voted for me because you didn't care who got lynched, just that you were tired of hearing about the lie detector business, and that I'm acting differently (without specifying how)? Now you speak for the group when I didn't even receive half the votes cast?

Then:

Chris wrote:I'll reiterate, just because I suspect someone, even if that someone is a civvie, it doesn't mean I'm bad.
Your entire rationale for voting Ep1:

Chris wrote:Changed my vote.

*votes Epignosis*

I seem to remember you getting juliets killed.
That's a double standard. The courtesy you expect to be extended to you is one you don't extend to others.

This is one of things i was trying to point out as well and partly why your posts ring of desperation Chris. It feels like you are throwing pasta at the wall to see what sticks. Like, lets lynch Epi or MP, or or um...

Chris wrote:Sorry to keep posting like this. I'm going to work soon, and don't know how long I'll be gone. Plus, I do my best thinking in the morning, and this may be the last morning I've got.

Those who know my playstyle... think of who I'd go after if I was the Indy Killer. SVS will tell you straight away, I'd go after LC, or herself. Especially early on, when it would be harder to tie it to me. I'd go after the players I'd consider the biggest threat. I've said it before. I've done it before.

The people targeted by The Master are not the players that I'd go after.

It's slim, I know... but worth mentioning.

SVS - what do think of this claim?

Dom wrote:
DFaraday wrote:
I wasn't in Supernatural, although it sounds like something I should have been in.
I targeted myself for a kill in that game. It was solely because I Lucifer, we had used Death's power to stop any death from happening for 3 (real life) days. No one would die any way. So, I targeted myself with the kill. I was lynched anyway (I screwed up big time in that game lol).

My point is the ONLY reason why we did it is because NO ONE would die anyway.
This is not the case, to my knowledge, in this game. So, I don't think the Cybermen would waste a kill like that. It seems foolish.

Chris wrote:Dom, ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?
Are you serious?

You have created a scenario in your head where 1) everyone who suspects you is bad 2) you literally filled in roles based on who suspected you, you had no mention of me until you just filled in a role because I DON'T JUST UNILATERALLY TRUST YOU and 3) you are requiring MP to attempt to kill himself.

That's desperate.

I'm calling a spade a spade, buddy.
Chris wrote:I didn't vote MM. That can make me look like The Master. But I'm not. SVS can be right about rey quitting regarldless of the role, but I know I wouldn't quit with that role. Most people wouldn't quit with that role. It's rare to get a role like that, and I believe anyone who enjoys mafia would relish a chance to play a role like that. Just think about it... there was no lull in the actions of The Master. Think about how I'm playing, those of you who know my playstyle. Do you really think I'm playing the Indy role? I had the indy role in 6 Feet Under... was I playing like this?
In SFU, I suspected you and you immediately suspected me back and created a whole lot of drama around the two of us. You figured out I was the civvie protector and killed me. This doesn't sound all that different than what is happening now. I suspected you, you no u me and create a whole drama trying to find a world where I am bad. I am not. You threw me in that role simply because I suspect you, no other reason.

I was your teammate in Supernatural with Bass (first game!) and SVS. I absolutely agree about the Cyber kill. We did it out of desperation trying to prevent losing you so early in the game.

In SFU Chris was all over the with you and me. He played me so well in that game since he was the only one who knew my role, that it makes me wary. I def think he could be the Master, but I would also like to look at Df and Snow dog as possible Cybers, so i am willing to put Chris aside for now.

DFaraday wrote:
Hedgeowl wrote:
Chris wrote:BR, why do you suppose I'm getting more suspicion than you or Elo got? Even MP, who survived a NK, suspects me because I survived a NK. How much sense does that make?
Sorry I am still recovering from your latest defense, "dont lynch me because i will die, but if i am the Master why bother?"

I just finished reading through some loooong posts, but to start its not that you survived an NK, its that you survived 2 NKs. Big difference. If you had just survived a strax kill no biggie, you'd probably be civ, but the cybers tried to kill you on the same night? They have a live role checker on their team and if they learned you were the master, they would know just leading your lynch wouldnt be enough. I dont think the argument you are the Cyber controller works, because um, why would you target yourself, but the Master is a real possibility. I am willing to consider civ options, but its a really hard position to defend from i know.
In response to the bolded, it would not be unheard of for a team to "target" a member of their team, knowing full well that that person will survive, so I wouldn't write off Chris as a Cyberman just yet.

Speaking of, I want to point out that Sarah Jane's role says she can survive "alien" attacks. The Cybermen are not aliens, so I wonder whether Sarah can survive being targeted by them. If not, that just makes Chris look even shadier.

I agree in a normal baddie situation, but i think in the case of Cyber's head survival that it would an unlikely strategy to highlight yourself that way. Thats why I doubt Chris is that role. The only role he could be that should be lynched is the Master i think. I see that MP also thinks we should wait to lynch him since he would survive anyway, but he does have a kill tonight as well. It will take 2 more attempts to kill him however, so I would be willing to put him on backburner until tomorrow and focus on Cybers for the moment.

Interesting thought re: aliens DF.

Hosts - what is the definition of alien you are using in the context of Sarah Jane.

Linki Mmm potent.

Long Con wrote:
Hedgeowl wrote: It feels like a team "no u" just a bit.

Your posting is screaming desperate right now, which I get, but it doesn't make me feel better.
I thought the 'no u' was so blatant that I didn't even mention it.

Well now i just feel like a nub.

Chris wrote:
Chris wrote:I'm not sure. I was thinking that the pole and being a lot earlier than everybody thought they'd be screwed them up. There's a lot of boat changing and I don't think they ever intended for it to be tied since that exposes too much information. And we all know that information in a mafia game is a civvies best friend.
I was thinking that the poll ending a lot earlier than everybody thought it would be, screwed them up. There's been a lot of vote changing, and I don't think they ever intended for it to be tied since that exposes too much information. And we all know that information in a mafia game is a civvie's best friend.

I think what may have happened is that LC voted on the poll for Epig, but put his extra vote/s on MM. That's why he was so concerned about any info getting out about the vote being tied.

And, I don't have any real evidence that there can or will be an early end to the day, but when 2 of the 4 people who can kill in the game target you in one night, you tend to worry for your life. But I did find it interesting that as soon as I put the vote on MP, LC was right there to put another vote on me. And his post, he seems so sure of who I am. So sure, in fact, he's got to vote me nearly 36 hours ahead of time.

But what I really think happened is,m I'm not sure if they really think I'm The Master or not, but they know for damn sure I'm not a Cyberman. So there's no way I survived the dual NK kill attempts by being The Cyber Controller. So they're not sure who I am, but I could be The Master. But in case that's too easy to defend, they threw out that I could also be The Cyber Controller, and now there's ABSOLUTELY no reason to wait to vote for me.

But I feel that they may have believed me about the vote ending early, and that would mean that I'd be in a tie with MP, leaving it to a coin flip. That's too much of a chance for MP. And what I was Amy Pond? Well, shit, they'd need more than just another vote. So in comes LC, with his extra vote/s, making sure that even if I was Amy Pond, if the day ended early, I'd still have more votes.

And why would they be concerned that I'm Amy Pond? Because I've been asking about the votes, since if I was Amy Pond, and Epig wasn't lynched, then I'd be wondering why, wouldn't I?

So what happens? A sudden rush of people who are convinced that I'm either The Master or The Cyber Controller. And then suddenly, no one is talking about MP or Epig anymore.

My thoughts on who the Cybermen are?

The Cyber Controller - MP
The Cyberman Head - LC
Cyberman 1 & 2 - Epig and either Hedgie or Dom.

To answer the other questions... first thing I need to know... Am I being accused of being The Master or THe Cyber Controller? Because I need to know which one to defend against.

But I would love to add that it's nice how I survive a NK, and suddenly I must be bad. Why can't I be Sarah or Jack? If I was Sarah, maybe by NK attempts failed because of the 50%. Maybe if I was Jack, the Cyberman kill failed, and the Strax kill was missed because I'm civvie? Strax's kill could have missed because I'm a civvie Sarah as well! Then there are secrets that we still don't know about, and secret roles apparently as well!

I wasn't clear on my survival for a few reason Juliets. First, I don't want to role hint, much less out my own role. Second, if other players with killing powers think for a second that I am The Cyber Controller, they'd be less inclined to target me. So I didn't mind the vagueness.

I am not a baddie. The Cybermen tried to kill me because I'm getting too close. I survived because of my role. Strax tried to kill me because he's either a nub, or his target got redirected. I survived because I am a civ.

Just keep this in mind. If I somehow do get lynched, just go back and look at how the rush to judgement came, and look at who did it. They want me dead, and the NKs failed. They know I can't survive a lynch, and they're trying to strike while the iron is hot.

I will show up civvie if lynched. I can only hope you all will know what to do afterward.

I have nothing to hide, ask me any questions you want.

Ok, questions. The cybers tried to kill you because you are getting too close? Close to what? Do you mean because you voted Epi? Who you've now said you only sorted suspected, kinda, but not really. Why is it "too easy to defend" being suspected of the master? I dont think it makes sense for you to be cyber though.

You list suspects for cybers as MP, LC, Epi, Dom, and me. 1 of 5 i know isnt cyber, 3 of 5 i am fairly sure arent cyber, and the the last two i really dont know. However of the 5 all of us have questioned you about your survival, pushing exposing Amy as a civ, even after warning, and two voted for you, so is this where the sudden list comes from? It feels like a team "no u" just a bit.

Your posting is screaming desparate right niw, which i get, but it doesnt make me feel better.

Chris wrote:BR, why do you suppose I'm getting more suspicion than you or Elo got? Even MP, who survived a NK, suspects me because I survived a NK. How much sense does that make?

Sorry I am still recovering from your latest defense, "dont lynch me because i will die, but if i am the Master why bother?"

I just finished reading through some loooong posts, but to start its not that you survived an NK, its that you survived 2 NKs. Big difference. If you had just survived a strax kill no biggie, you'd probably be civ, but the cybers tried to kill you on the same night? They have a live role checker on their team and if they learned you were the master, they would know just leading your lynch wouldnt be enough. I dont think the argument you are the Cyber controller works, because um, why would you target yourself, but the Master is a real possibility. I am willing to consider civ options, but its a really hard position to defend from i know.

Chris wrote:I really hate to add this, but I will. The role for The Master says that he will survive the first three attempts on his life. That's not just NKs. That's lynches too. Keep that in mind when you're looking for him.

Me? I'll die if you lynch me. But if you really think I'm The Master, then I won't die if lynched... so why try? Let's kill a baddie!

Interesting result. What is really interesting though is that Chris was the target of both Cybers and Strax. With all the talk of their role check it might be worth considering him as the. Master.

i will be here on and off, but we are getting a new modem Wed. so hopefully that fixes our internet problem. I am trying to keep up reading, but might not be posting a ton until tomorrow.

Linki Epi i had been wondering the same thing myself. With the night resukt I think chris a very good option for the Master.

MP - i will be here and there as well, so let me know if you have specific questions.

well that wasnt the result I was expecting, but good one all the same.

Epignosis wrote:
Hedgeowl wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
Gotrees wrote:
Long Con wrote:I would think Made, if he were Emperor Dalek, would still not want to be lynched, and thus exposed as that role to the more suspicious of us. A save of him to keep his cover makes sense.
Good point. I suppose in that sense a save could still potentially make sense.
It makes lots of sense, actually.
This is totally baseless though -- what reason do we even have to think Made is Emperor Dalek?
Because I suggested it and people believe everything I say.

Made still hasn't voted against Enrique.
can you tell me where you suggested it? Searching dalek and emperor was useless so far in your posts.
You got it:

Here and here.

And TH was more explicit about the possibility before I posted what's in the second link:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 893#p88893

Great, thank you. Ok, this makes more sense with what i was finding. I kept thinking I was missing anither post.

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
Gotrees wrote:
Long Con wrote:I would think Made, if he were Emperor Dalek, would still not want to be lynched, and thus exposed as that role to the more suspicious of us. A save of him to keep his cover makes sense.
Good point. I suppose in that sense a save could still potentially make sense.
It makes lots of sense, actually.
This is totally baseless though -- what reason do we even have to think Made is Emperor Dalek?
Because I suggested it and people believe everything I say.

Made still hasn't voted against Enrique.

can you tell me where you suggested it? Searching dalek and emperor was useless so far in your posts.

Epignosis wrote:
Hedgeowl wrote:
sabie12 wrote:Its a tough call btwn made and enrique. Theyve both survived nks under mysterious circumstances and Im thinking they might be connected. My vote is currently going to Enrique because I feel that voting him or made will finally find us a baddie. Looks like we are close to a tie so it may not matter which I choose anyway. Also sorry the typing is so atrocious. Im on my tablet.
Ok see this is the stuff i am finding curious post made/enrique. What made you think they were connected sabie. I need to keep reading back before this, but i am wondering.

I voted Mm for now since i didnt want to run out of time. i am trying to find if Epi was the first perosn to bring up a made/enri connection or if others were discussing it first.
I believe it was me first.

Ok, i wish you didnt have so many posts then. Lol. I will check them though. I am finding Snow dog referecing a connection, sabie, TH didnt think was one at first. zeek seems to think there was one and suggested lynching enri first and then strax kill made and that is all before the lynch. However, its all mixed up with ideas of whether they were on the same team or different, whereas after the lycnh it seemed much more obvious that it would be the same. I will keep digging for now.

Linki yeah i thinkth at was the a major part of the case on epi, that he might be cyber.

sabie12 wrote:Its a tough call btwn made and enrique. Theyve both survived nks under mysterious circumstances and Im thinking they might be connected. My vote is currently going to Enrique because I feel that voting him or made will finally find us a baddie. Looks like we are close to a tie so it may not matter which I choose anyway. Also sorry the typing is so atrocious. Im on my tablet.

Ok see this is the stuff i am finding curious post made/enrique. What made you think they were connected sabie. I need to keep reading back before this, but i am wondering.

I voted Mm for now since i didnt want to run out of time. i am trying to find if Epi was the first perosn to bring up a made/enri connection or if others were discussing it first.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:If she was "hiding", it'd be apparently accomplishing very little. I think if she had baddie teammates they would be prodding her to the thread... and they are not.

How is Dana "hiding", Blooper, and not TH 2.0? He has vanished completely, even though he's been on the site in the last 24 hours.

This was his last post, almost 3 RL days ago:

Turnip Head wrote:Not really caught up enough to make an informed decision on this poll so I voted for the coolest sounding planet
If she has baddie teammates, 2 of them are dead, and the other one might be just as inactive as her.

Dana was under suspicion and TH was not (that I'm aware of), so it made it much easier for TH to fly under the radar if that's what he's going for.

We think 2 might be dead, but as far as i know thats not certain. So you think Dana and MP are the last two?

Linki what is mp trying to say? Do you mean dana and th are daleks?

MovingPictures07 wrote:WTF guys, I already said Dana is not bad, I've defended her harder than anyone.

Right, but if some people think you're bad...

I wont be voting Dana if thats makes you feel better.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Hedgeowl wrote:The dana votes are bit surprising to me considering the lack of recent conversation about her. It seems like its coming from folks who havent been around as much this weekend. I also wish she would be here to answer some of these thoughts. I find this vote to be very interesting so far between Epi and MM especially as it keeps tying up. I am not sure atm where my vote will go, but should have a wee bit of time to consider some of the cases being made.
I've been pushing the lynching of Dana (as my activity would allow) since Day 3.

I actually meant ninja and then mistakenly thought sabie, but I went back and had switched it in my brain. I just mean there hasnt been recent discussion of dana compared to you and Epi.

The dana votes are bit surprising to me considering the lack of recent conversation about her. It seems like its coming from folks who havent been around as much this weekend. I also wish she would be here to answer some of these thoughts. I find this vote to be very interesting so far between Epi and MM especially as it keeps tying up. I am not sure atm where my vote will go, but should have a wee bit of time to consider some of the cases being made.

Snow Dog wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Thanks for clarifying, MM, and I realize you've been busy; I'm not talking about only D6, but fair enough.

You shouldn't expect me to change it, unless you can come up with some amazing reason, because at this point your posts have been increasingly incriminating.

I don't think Enrique's vote was an obvious save attempt at the time, but on reflection, it seems like it was his idea to "save" Made and leave his lynch-stopping power for another day.

I don't think you're realizing that Enrique could not just do a 180 on his opinion of me even if it was the better choice at the time. That's a great example of a baddie getting locked into their opinions, whether they truly believe them or not. So... I don't understand why you're harping on that, since it makes no sense.
I was actually hoping to discuss the Snow Dog lynch with you again, but hopefully another time.

Also he did a 180 on you later, and Dana as well.
I did a 180?

I think he means Enrique, not you.

Well, we spent the whole evening catching up on season 7 rather than me reading through the thread. Really liking the change to the new companion so far.

I haven't gone through MP's MM case fully yet, but plan to do so tomorrow and provide my thoughts. I find Epi's analysis interesting as well especially in regards to MM as Cyber. I dont know if I fully understand his reasoning though. So far there seems to be little thread evidence on Cybers, so any lead is useful.

linki the lime green threw me for a bit. Kept trying to figure out what game Juliets was hosting.

S~V~S wrote:
juliets wrote:I liked you and SVS better as red MP. It really stands out.

Purple is a HUGE improvement for the mods.
I requested the teal

And yes, I am annoying

the red was nice, but the teal is one of my favorite colors.

keys56000000000 wrote:Who's vouched for whom? I must have missed all the vouchings.

MP, I've gone over your MM case and it's not bad at all. I especially agree with the assessment of his behaviour during the Enri lynch.

I too share your concern re: Hedgeowl. More likely than not that there's something to that.

Rox, I don't know about your case against Epig2. It's really hard for me to get a good reading on people that replace back into games. I'm gonna give him some time.

^ this is actually a good example of what I mean by paying attention. MP has been vouching for daisy and Dana multiple times and daisy was vouching for Dana as well in many different posts. If you are reading the thread it seems hard to miss.

MovingPictures07 wrote:keys, I appreciate that. I think if you re-read posts made even in Night 5 you might be able to benefit from a new perspective. At least IMO.

I'm almost 99% certain that MM is a Dalek, and while it'd be nice to catch a Cyberman, I just have an incredibly difficult time believing MM's actions are anything but aligned with Enrique and Made. So I'll be voting MM now.

S~V~S, I appreciate your contributions. I'm sorry, my intention has not been to make you doubt your gut, but I have put more effort into this game perhaps than any other mafia game I've played on this site, which says a lot, with the exception of MOTU. Consequently, even though I told myself it'd be difficult with balancing PhD work, I've been keeping a spreadsheet, which I've found to be VERY helpful once we got to four or five days' worth of data and in attempting to discern players' likely alignments. I'm not going to say I'm infallible, far from it in fact, and I realize I've made mistakes this game. Regarding Daisy, the fact that The Master killed Daisy last night confirmed to me that I was correct about her.

I have given in-game reasons to defend Dana so hard, though, and you can find them here: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 662#p89662

I don't know how I feel about Epig 2.0 at the moment. I am a bit worried that we haven't seen much in the way of baddie hunting from him, and I could VERY easily see him as a Cyberman, but the LD statement stuff doesn't really convince me. I suppose I could see why people would vote for him, but I just don't feel there's enough thread evidence.

Turnip Head 2.0's silence scares the shit out of me, and I'd especially appreciate his insight whenever he returns.

There are other quieter players I want to hear from too, since I'm pretty sure The Master is playing an under the radar type game.

I'm particularly intrigued by opinions on me -- while I have not role hinted, I have dropped statements and if one were to attempt to peg my actions into a role, it could certainly be possible AND not only that but there's also a role check on the Cyberman team -- so the fact that BR was refraining from voicing an opinion on me until recently, in addition to LC and Hedgeowl suddenly defending me as well, PARTICULARLY the way Hedgeowl worded her recent post, might concern me.

Hedgeowl wrote:RIPiywg Daisy! From my read I was thinking it likely at this point. I also am not feeling an MP lynch and am a bit surprised at the early votes. I know that keys and chris have been talking about him for a while, but we have two days still. I think if you are paying attention it is very likely he is not a baddie. I plan to do a little reading first if I get some time and check out the Made lynch as I said before.
Does anyone else here think that Hedgeowl actually would be paying enough attention this game to discern my role? The way she words it here indicates such: "if you are paying attention it is very likely he is not a baddie".

Frankly, this pushes Hedgeowl way up my radar.

I meant if one has been paying attention to your posts, which are many and long, than I think it likely you are not a baddie. I doubt now you would be a Dalek and while you could be a Cyber, I also think the way you are playing this game doesnt read that way. I couldnt 100% say you were civ with the Master role out there and other unknowns, but with you vouching for certain roles I also doubt that you would do that for a teammate. What I should have said to be more accurate is I doubt you are mafia. However, if you were the Master and you killed daisy that would be cruel, so that still makes me think you are more likely civ. I did not mean to imply I know your role or that you have role hinted. I am also more present now in this game than before, so I am actually keeping up with the thread.

RIPiywg Daisy! From my read I was thinking it likely at this point. I also am not feeling an MP lynch and am a bit surprised at the early votes. I know that keys and chris have been talking about him for a while, but we have two days still. I think if you are paying attention it is very likely he is not a baddie. I plan to do a little reading first if I get some time and check out the Made lynch as I said before.

Epignosis wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
S~V~S wrote:What he asked you to do, though, was say you were not a robot. Not to discuss the composition of your team. Even asking you to say that may be considered "forced", though, so:

@Hosties avec le mosties~ is asking someone to use a specific phrase considered a forced statement? Like saying to someone:

Player X Wrote: Hey TrickyDick, can you just say, "I am not a crook"?

Would "I am not a crook" be forced, or wold it be checkable? Are team names checkable? Like would "I am not a robot" be checkable?
A robot? That's not a helpful thing to say at all. Are there not good robots? I was a robot dog before.

I said what I considered to be the most comprehensive thing I could say that any host would deem checkable.
Helpful or not, it was the question he asked, and the statement he asked you to make. And since the robot dog is dead, all the remaining robots are baddies, right? Not saying it was helpful or not, just reminding you that the answer you gave was not the answer the soon to be dead insanified person asked for. So you can lighten up on the, "I answered HERE. Remember when I answered HERE? Right HERE?

I am kinda hoping that would be a forced statement, tbh. I don't disagree with Chris on this point, but once the cat was let out of the bag you really can't put it back in.
I don't know who is a robot. I know nothing of Dr. Who. I tried to phrase my sentence as broadly and as checkable as possible.

Roxy and Long Con think this is important, even though they both missed the statement I made that would preclude me from being on EITHER bad team. This means that neither of them are lie detectors.

If you were a Dalek, you would be the worst teammate ever.

I actually think the role checker role (I am on a roll....

) is an interesting one for the Cybers. There were several people making assumptions on roles which turned out to be correct. I would like to reread the Made lynch attempt and see who pops up again for me. Dfaraday was clearly not the only one, but I think it was several folks speculating.

Voted for New Savannah because I liked the episode and the Face of Boe.

Woohoo!! Excellent result!

bea wrote:You're going to see Hedwig!!!!! I'm soooo jealous!!!!!!!!! I <3 NPH. I saw the movie version of Hedwig. That's a heckofa story right there.

Yes, have so much fun in NYC. Can't wait to hear about Hedwig too.

Linki I meant to post this this morning and now there are a bajillion posts to read

Dom wrote:I still feel you likely are on a team given how you seemed to know that people were talking about you after missing upwards of seven pages, in your words.

Ah, ok. Well, if i was on a team, i would have hoped they have given me more notice of all the talk on me. I have no defenders you might notice, and while i am not the most active player anyways, I show up in btsc more often then in a thread because it is quick. You have been bad with me twice, and i would use your knowledge of me then and now to consider whether you really think i have teammates and you are seeing my baddie game or that my earlier game was a civ, absent and distracted by two other games.

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