The Syndicate

The civvies needed more talkative players if they were to have any chance this game. There was so much happening that needed to be discussed, but the civvies rarely ever brought anything up to talk about. FH being the lone exception. All the other civs only checked in to post their "I'm voting for so and so's" and that was it. Sorsha, Elo, and BWT (who was an outted civvie!!!!!) did this for almost every lynch.

When your whole team is barely paying attention, chances are you're going to get steamrolled.

S~V~S wrote:I knew it!!! I knew K4J HAD to have been recruited with her sudden change in time, but knowing zero about how the civ roles worked I didn't want to say anything. Good game other baddies, congrats

k4j was not recruited. He was always a baddie, I just picked to have BTSC with him. With his sudden change in opinion on me, he was trying to tell you something true about my role. You just didn't want to listen :P

By the way, I was originally totally trying to win with the civvies. My powers would have been a lot more interesting if I was using them as a civ, and I like playing as a civvie the most. If SVS had not been killed the night before I chose my BTSC partner, I would have chosen BTSC with either her or BWT. BWT could have vouched for me in the thread and SVS would have been forced to take his word for it. But SVS died, and suddenly picking BWT didn't seem to have as much of an upside anymore, so I chose k4j instead. Things could have gone a lot of differently!

I'll forgive you pricks eventually I never would have survived that long without you guys.

I had the most awesome role of all time. Like, once-in-a-lifetime awesome. And I was never able to use it like I wanted to because it was attached to Dom.

I don't think I've been this upset about not winning a mafia game. I feel like I did everything I possibly could have to earn it; I tried my hardest, and just came up short. I still don't know why k4j, Epi and Ace turned on me yesterday. They had no reason that I can see to throw me under the bus right before the end of the game. I never suspected them to turn on me - I didn't think they had any reason to - or I would have used my lynch protection. I guess it just wasn't in the cards.

I had a lot of things I wanted to say to SVS about my role, but she was bad, so I guess it doesn't matter.

Anyways boo this was a really creative game. Well-planned, well-hosted. I like that you tried to add fun things to do on the side, like the White Cards. I like that everyone utilized Awesome Points differently. I love that it was balanced while still so open-ended.

I really had a ton of fun. But that fun got soured by the fact that I couldn't quite get to the end.

Do what you need to do then. I am not bad. You have been lied to.

Only that you survived the lynch and didn't try to explain why. But I know that doesn't necessarily make you a baddie which is why I've tried to keep an open mind about you.

Guys, I'm not bad. Several people here know that. The civvies need me, i have a lot of power and ive used that power for good. We need to keep the numbers. I'm voting for Elo and hoping for the best. I know it's not me, and it's quite possible that she's bad. Just going with my gut.

I already said that FH flipping civ has made me feel a lot better about you SVS. Either way you are not an original baddie. It is either Ace or Elo. I have reasons to suspect both. I know it is one of them. Evidence tells me it's ace. Gut tells me it might be Elo.

I have no reason to believe that Epi is a baddie. It does concern me that he voted for me today.

There are people today who have stood up for me in the past, who I have been able to prove myself to, that voted for me. That's how I know the baddies want me gone. I am almost positive that they controlled someone's vote.

She has mainly followed Epi's vote around. She seemed to trust FH in her gut, despite voting for her. That's all I have. If she's a baddie, she's played a flawless and quiet game.

I've narrowed it down to either you or Elo. If you are not bad, Elo is. Don't have anything on her, she hasn't said much this game. You I suspect for surviving a lynch and for trying to get me lynched today. But it's one of the two of you.

When have I had time to say anything civvie? Unless people are talking about me, they are not talking at all.

I wish I had had more time to defend myself today and I wish people wanted to at least discuss other suspects. The fact that no one is talking about anything except me has worked out very well for the baddies so far. The civvies can only blame themselves for not being more active.

I am not a baddie and I never have been. I never lied about my role. The baddies are using the suspicion that's been lingering on me to make today's lynch easy for them. I assume the baddies must be close to winning if they are able to do this.

You will see.

And SVS I have tried repeatedly to prove myself to you. I'm at a loss about what else I could do. You have had your mind made up about me since before I even got into this game, and you're unwilling to even consider that you might be wrong about me or my role. You haven't even tried to talk about other suspects to help find baddies; you have been solely focused on me.

Is there anyone other than me that you are suspicious of? Unless Sorsha was the sassy black woman - it's possible that she was, I had no read on her - there are at least two separate baddies alive, on separate teams. I can't be both of them. I am neither of them.

Ace survived a lynch. FH was highly suspicious of him because of it, though she did not seem be suspicious of me. What do you make of that, SVS? And what do you make of Ace? Also, what do you think about Elohcin this game?

Rest in peace Sorsha

Ace, you voted for FH before I did, and basically for all the same reasons. Why has what happened suddenly changed your opinion on me?

I think it's because you know that if it isn't me tomorrow, everybody will be looking your way.

There was a lot of truth to what FH was saying about you. I acknowledged that at the time. I just prioritized FH over you because I really thought I had caught her. I deeply regret it now, but that's the choice I made. But you have a lot to answer for as well. Don't act like it's suddenly a done deal that I am bad while there are so many questions about you.

But I'm also not yet done looking for whoever is ultimately responsible for this. Someone here framed FH, that much we now know for certain. I intend to find that person. I owe FH that much.

I'm sorry FH. I really thought I had read that right.

For what it's worth, this makes me feel a lot better about SVS.

I am on the fence about SVS. A lot of it hinges on what happens with FH, since FH took credit for rezzing SVS.

FH, I don't think I'm wrong about you, but I'll feel really bad if I am. You have played your ass off this game.

If you were civvie, I think you would be hunting for the person that framed you, not Ace. Ace is basically the only person who couldn't have framed you.

You're right. If there was to ever be a frame opportunity, that would be it. I guess I just don't think that's what went down. FH would have reacted differently if she were truly being framed. That's my gut read of the situation.

Yeah Epi but if the Trumps had just let FH be lynched instead of saving her to frame her, she would be dead, and the Trumps would still have their buttsore ability to later frame someone or save someone. There was no reason for DH to use the buttsore ability during a civvie's lynch, especially since no one else was really up for the lynch that day.

FH, I think for me it comes down to how you left the thread on the day you were being lynched. Then you only returned later, once you had survived. It's like you did not want to be around in the interim, in the moments before you were supposed to be lynched. Because you knew that you would not die, and I don't think you wanted to fake your indignity at being lynched, only to then turn around and have to fake being surprised as well when you survived. I think you knew you would survive the lynch that day. I can't prove it, but in my gut I feel it.

Furthermore, if you were a civvie, and you saw that you miraculously survived, I think you would have run off immediately to see how that would be possible, and you would have very quickly realized you were being framed. But if I recall correctly, you barely addressed your survival until I prodded you for your thoughts. I don't think a civvie would have approached it in the way that you did.

That's why I think you're the sassy black woman, and that's why I'm voting for you.

Flyin' High wrote:I don't think whoever caused Aces to be up for the lynch instead of me thought he'd survive.

But what if he hadn't? What if he had been lynched, like the Trumps thought he would, and he flipped bad? You'd be taking all the glory for catching him, and soaking in some sweet civvie cred.

I see how it is either a frame or the real thing. Those are the options. Either the Trumps are trying to frame you, or you are the sassy black woman. Your arguments as to why you can't be the sass aren't very convincing.

-- You voted DH? Of course you did, everyone did except me and SVS. Baddie teammates have to turn on each other eventually if they want to keep their civvie cred. I will have to go back and see if you've suspected DH all game or not, but from memory you have not. You mainly went after Rey, Ace, and INH. I don't remember seeing much suspicion of DH from you.

-- You wouldn't NK Epi? Why not? I know you said he was your top suspect, but you've mentioned him for a few days now and there has been almost no support for him to be lynched. Why wouldn't you NK him then? Also, he suspected you initially, but then backed off. This all fits the profile for a baddie's NK target pretty perfectly.

Flyin' High wrote:Kneel4Justice and TH: Can you take off the blinders you have on me for one moment and consider other things I've said? What do you think about Aces surviving that lynch? He had suspicion on him earlier (not just from me), but that seems to have vanished--why?

You have said that he must be a baddie because he survived the lynch, but I personally know this to not necessarily be true. In that way, I'll have to give Ace the benefit of the doubt. But I do agree it's worth looking into, and he didn't really address it. He is next on my to-do list.

Flyin' High wrote:Do you think Epi is misguided civvie or clever mafia? (See any of the posts I've previously made on him if you need a refresher)

Why are those the only two options? Can't he be a clever civvie or misguided mafia? I think I'm seeing Epi's civ game here, albeit turned down a few notches. I think he's working on his listening :P

Flyin' High wrote:What do you think about Sorsha? Or Elohcin? Two players that keep showing up to vote at the end of lynches but have barely contributed to any discussion whatsoever.

I have not seen Sorsha or Elohcin's baddie game recently, but they play like this when they are civvie, so it is not suspicious in and of itself.

I think everyone should read this post and then the next 3 posts beneath it, and then share what they think. In one of those posts, FH lays out all the possibilities for what could have happened during the attempt to lynch her, almost all of which include DH being involved. We need to decide what we believe happened.

Ace, did someone try to steal an Awesome Point from you the night before we tried to lynch FH? You would have received a PM from boo if someone successfully stole an Awesome Point from you. If you had no Awesome Points for anyone to steal, it's possible you started the lynch that day at +2 votes, although the Switcher still could not have switched the lynch to you and one baddie team or the other would still have to have been responsible.

DH did not use his buttsore ability to save himself, so it seems obvious to me that he used it the previous day to try and save FH.

I don't want to be smited by Epi's phallic hammer. Good thing I have the perfect white card for this question.

FH, do you think it would be easy or difficult for someone to build a case that you are the sassy black woman?

SVS I don't know what you think you knew about Dom. But if you are a civvie, then it is possible for us to both be sporting a winner's banners at the end of this game. You can put that in your sig if you want.

So much win in those submissions.

Good job guys

Looks like my vote is inconsequential at this point so I'll go ahead and vote SVS. I think the baddies killed her to frame me, and then they brought her back to haunt me

I hope DH is the droids we're looking for. He's basically been a non-factor in this game so far. It's been the same 10 of us playing for the past week or so, so I would have thought I'd have a better understanding of his thoughts and suspicions by now, or more of a clue to his alignment. I'm hoping that his aloofness is indicitave of baddieness, which it often is at this stage in the game. He didn't really try to defend himself, but neither did anyone else. I feel that if he had teammates there would have been more of a push to save him. I'm hoping he's simply the last member of his team.

Interesting. So you are the one who broke the tie. And I remember, when I was reading through the early part of the game, seeing the hint you dropped about rezzing BWT, so I was wondering if you would reference that.

Assuming the Switcher couldn't have been responsible, and that surviving had nothing to do with your role, what do you think happened yesterday?

Okay, so the lynch couldn't have been switched by the Switcher because Ace had no votes yesterday.

It doesn't seem like doin' it in the butt is to blame, because I haven't seen the curse pop up in a few days, so I assumed doin' it in the butt was dead. But I guess that's exactly what doin' it in the butt would want us to assume if he stopped using his cursing power. And if doin' it in the butt combined his onetime buttsore ability with two midgets shitting into a bucket's nightly dumping power, then, well... let's just say I'm not ruling anything out.

Ace, do you know why the lynch was switched to you, or why you survived?

FH, have you anything to say on the matter? What do you think of Ace being written into the lynch post instead of you? You had 5 public votes, no one else even had 2, and Ace had 0.

Also FH, if you don't mind me asking, who did you vote for to be rezzed?

Yay no death At least we have been fortunate in that respect.

So am I right in thinking that yesterday's lynch was somehow switched to Ace, and that he was the one who survived it, not FH? I didn't realize that until someone (Sorsha I think) mentioned it. I sometimes don't read the host posts very well, as the text color blends in with the background that I like to use on here.

BWT, you have not asked the right questions or received the right answers to be sure about me. I am wondering if I need to prove myself to you tonight instead of to SVS, because you are drawing some wrong conclusions I'm afraid. It seemed like you were close to understanding, but something must have changed your mind.

SVS you trust BWT's opinion on me blindly because he is a confirmed civ, but he has not given any more explanation for his thoughts on me than Epi has. And you continue to hound both of them for details. Obviously people aren't interested in having to spell everything out in the thread for all to see. You cannot come in here and expect every person to answer every question you ask, you're practically beating it out of them.

Even when I was talking to you, and you asked me who you should vote for, I gave my answer in a conversational tone, so we could discuss it and work it out together. That wasn't to your liking. You've been ruthless today, and no pleasant to try and have a conversation with, and I don't think it's making people feel very forthcoming with you.

S~V~S wrote:and TH just keeps saying, "I am not Dom, how do we know you came back a civ?"

And you make it sound like it's such an unreasonable question for me to ask of you. You haven't ever given me the benefit of the doubt this game, why on earth should I give it to you? Regardless of your position in this game before your death, we have no idea if you came back civ or not. There's no way we can know. The fact that boo said it was a tie vote for who to rez is rather ominous if you ask me.

Don't worry SVS, hopefully I'll be able to prove myself to you tonight. I have not killed you or anyone else in this game. You are wildly wrong about me.

Think what you want SVS. It's not like I haven't been trying to have a dialogue with you this game. I know you still think I killed you, but I didn't. I don't think you were genuinely interested in hearing my thoughts. I gave you my genuine thoughts, and all you did was comment on the ways in which it did not meet your expectations. Some people can't be pleased.

S~V~S wrote:

kneel4justice wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Linki @ TH~ Well, it is obvious i planned to vote for you, right? So I was hoping you would try to talk me out of it by giving me a viable alternative, I was hoping to see a bit of civ fire from you.

I feel I've given plenty of fire, SVS. I have not stopped giving my suspicions since I started in this game, even though everyone's had it out from me since I subbed in. FH, on the other hand, stormed off when it got to be too much. I have stuck with it, I've tried to defend myself, and I've been giving my own thoughts and suspicions the entire time.

Don't mistake my lack of certainty with a lack of civ fire.

And yes, it is obvious that you will vote for me. Maybe that's why I'm not putting too much effort into trying to dissuade you You have had a one-track mind with me (and Dom I guess) this entire game. I was really hoping you and I would be at an understanding by this point, but like I said I wasn't able to prove myself to you the way that I wanted to, so I'm at a loss on what to do about it now. And I can't even be certain you came back civ, anyway.

I have to vote because I'm heading into work now and do not want to miss it. I'm hoping I have a chance to check in later before the lynch ends, but I'm not sure. I'm voting FH for now. I'd like to give Elo a chance to react to everything.

S~V~S wrote:This is rather vague, TH. I want to know who you think i should vote for if not you. This is very iffy, like you don't want to commit.

I was just giving you my own suspicions... I didn't realize you were directly asking me who you should vote for.

I haven't committed yet. But I think I'd be more comfortable voting for FH than Elo right now. There's more to go on with FH, and she already has a vote from someone I semi-trust. Her stormy exit didn't really help. I also have not ruled out DH, who as others have said seems to really be flying under the radar, which is more a baddie strategy than a civvie one at this point in the game.

So I'd say, in order, my top 3 are FH, Elo, and DH. Although out of those 3, Elo was the only one who actually talked to me about making a plan to rez the right person, so that buys her a little cred in my book, but her survival of the NK still concerns me.

Why do you ask so pointedly? Who do you think you should vote for, if not me?

I've been getting civvie vibes from FH most of the game, mostly because of how helpful she seems. But her cases have tended to focus on specific people (especially the INH/Aces thing), but she would wiggle on the specifics ("you guys are backing each other up" "I never said you guys were backing each other up") when it suited her point of view on her suspect. I noticed she did the exact same thing to me, she never once considered me as a civvie. And she refused to really engage me personally on the matter, probably because she didn't want me to blow up at her like INH did (which I wouldn't do, it's not my style). I know that there was a baddie conspiracy to repeatedly try and get me lynched and discredit me; it is the reason we have not discussed many other suspicions up until this point, and it's probably why the vote is so spread out right now. If anyone were to be a member of that conspiracy, FH would be one of my best guesses.

But I'm also considering Elo. She hasn't contributed much so far in this game, and she survived a kill from the Trumps last night, meaning she could potentially be the taint from the Do Not Google team. I would hope that a civ Elo would be more helpful at this point in the game, especially since she just survived an NK.

I agree FH, the civvies really need to step up and make the right choice today. It's likely that the numbers are close, and the baddies seem to have had a lot of success manipulating us so far. Day 8 and only 2 lynched baddies does not bode well for us.

I don't know what conclusions BWT is drawing from the way boo answered his question, but they are the wrong conclusions, because I'm not bad. I was hoping I would be able to prove myself to SVS today by actions I took last night - since she was the only person guaranteed to survive the night, and also my main accuser - but I was roleblocked. I had contemplated asking in the thread not to be roleblocked, but I'm sure that would have been viewed as suspicious and I would have been blocked anyway. Alas. Assuming I can't be blocked again tonight, I will try again.

FH: I took note of how Epi responded to you at the time. I just didn't know, and still don't know, what to make of it. He has seemed somewhat of an enigma to me this game. I don't see him leading the charge like I'm used to seeing civvie Epi doing, but I also don't think he's been manipulative in a baddie way either.

When you reread, you might realize that I say that with the utmost sincerity. I really wish I could be 100% sure you are a civ. And I tried my hardest throughout the lynch to try and make sure we could know with full certainty that we rezzed a civvie. But no one wanted to work with me on it.

S~V~S wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Welcome back SVS! Feel any different?

Surviving the lynch was a byproduct of how I've used my role. Just because you don't see it on the front page doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are a lot of mechanics at work in this game, some of them are harder to spot than others.

Not sure, tbh. I have not totally caught up to where i was when i died. I quit reading the thread when, after i died, it was looking like you were blowing off all of my points as insignificant. I actually felt, for the first time in my mafia career, that I had been "gotten rid of", lol.

I definitely feel like you were killed in order to frame me, so in that respect, I'm sorry for the part I played in your murder. It was not my intention to blow off any of your points as insignificant. In fact if anything, I feel that you were doing that to me. I would say stuff and give opinions and try to give explanations for things that were being said about me and about Dom, but you just kept coming back to saying "idk tbh, I really wanted to vote for Turnip Dom today" and stuff like that without really engaging with me on anything. It feels like people have not wanted to hear one word from me since I set foot in this game. And I think the baddies definitely took advantage of that

And I am glad you are back. But I wish we could be more sure of your allegiance at this point.

Also, I now realize I was a little offbase with my interpretations of Ace's actions during the INH lynch. I didn't really put two and two together that since he was the Card Czar he would be the one to break the tie anyways. That changes my perception of those events a bit. I still think it was odd though. He and INH had both been going after FH for accusing of ganging up and defending each other, then Ace suddenly turns on INH and INH flips civ. It just didn't really sit right with me, and he didn't seem to have sympathy for what he did to INH. Although it was hard to have sympathy for INH at the time since he was taking the piss out on all of us in deadred

Welcome back SVS! Feel any different?

Surviving the lynch was a byproduct of how I've used my role. Just because you don't see it on the front page doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are a lot of mechanics at work in this game, some of them are harder to spot than others.

Well, I tried to tell you guys.

I will be vulnerable to the lynch tomorrow. But as I said earlier, I have ways to prove myself, so I'm hoping it doesn't come to that. We really need to get a baddie tomorrow. Depending on how the rez goes, and what happens tonight, we may be running out of wiggle room, numbers-wise. We can't afford to waste any lynches.

Give me a chance to help. I think I've earned that at least.

insertnamehere wrote:Maybe someone who is a confirmed civ?

I threw your name out there as a possible rezzee (you're basically playing like you're alive anyways :P ), but literally not one single person agreed with me. And now I'm worried the civ votes will be spread between you and jj, giving us no advantage.