The Syndicate

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:59 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:56 pm in 3 minutes unvote, before you say anything thats fucking stupid jjj was just talking, if he is mafia he can easily tie the vote @RondoDimBuckle

If Jay ties it that's a scum claim. If he's town he won't.

Yeah, this is correct. Tying to save yourself in this situation is a scumclaim. Don't do it if you're town.

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:58 pm Alison has hella resistance

I'm resisting Nate's opinion tbh.

Not in this moment necessarily, but so has Jay.

I'm staying on Jay, I'm not feeling comfortable with any other wagons atm.

lucy, thoughts on Nate?

*vote Alison with him

Like last time I left the thread, Nate had me as his top scumread (pending a reread). Now he's asking me to vote Alison


That doesn't make me feel good.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:50 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:49 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:47 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:43 pm I still would rather vote JJJ or Boq.

I hard block a Boq chop

I don't get it. It feels like he's exclusively pushing town atp in the world Alison is town.

We could find out if Alison is town.

This post is yikes

My current somewhat uninformed POE is

Alison
Jay
lucy
Nate

But Nate and Lucy are voting Alison, so I don't really want to vote there.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:42 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:41 pm Ok I'm here for 20 minutes, what'd I miss?

Lots but also nothing? Oh man.

What do you think about Alison? You sounded like you had some suspicions there at some point.

Yeah, I talked about her yesterday. I tried to start a wagon on her, but she came in and made a reasonable town argument for herself. Has she done anything to further prove that today?

But since you're here Rondo, can you point me to why you're voting lucy?

I doubt I'll have time to catch up, need a tl;dr

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:41 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:40 pm

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:38 pm Boq and Nate are my town core everyone else can fuck off

Do not speak like this ever plz

If you are speaking as marmot, lol

if you are speaking as a mod, sure

I'm speaking as a player in this game

We should never tie in this situation, we lose our last miselim if we do

Ok I'm here for 20 minutes, what'd I miss?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:38 pm Boq and Nate are my town core everyone else can fuck off

Do not speak like this ever plz

Stuck at work. Won't be around before deadline

Vote Jay

@NateTheLesser I did say I was sheeping Seanzie's case of creature and that you can find a summary of that in my iso. It is not strictly meta

I'm not satisfied with this day 4 yet. Mainly I wish I had more time.

It feels like we're all just talking past each other and going to eventually stumble into a yeet.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:33 am

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:48 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:20 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:13 pm I still think Creature's town tbh. I review two of his scum games and two of his town games in the last year, and his posting is far more in line with his town games. Specifically his paranoid complaints about mis-elimming at EOD. There's just none of that in his scum games, and quite a bit in his town games.

Town

Pandas vs Trash Pandas
RPG Mafia

Scum

Rings of Power
Fall of Númenor



Creature voters, I'm curious if you agree with this take.

@fingersplints @RondoDimBuckle @NateTheLesser

I just realised I didn't reply to this @ at best I will read when I get home and at worst I won't read it. I really don't like reading other games. This game is the only one that matters right now. If you get what I mean. Anything else is a form of wifom. But if its short I might give it a go later

I feel the same as this. I sometimes look at another game quick but reading four games probably won’t happen for me. I actually even played one of those games and I don’t remember if creature was the same.

I have some reservations about my past Creature suspicion based on recent tone, so if I get a chance I will

Fwiw, I only linked Creature's ISOs and his posts are relatively short there.

But I agree, it's more time than you might want to spend

Boquise wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:42 am how does alison handle her scum mates, anyone who knows?

In the past I've seen her power wolf and pull her teammates along to victory, but I haven't seen that in a while. The only game I saw from her recently as wolf, she was killed day 1 (agave master mafia)

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 6:30 am I say exact because I don’t want this to be like the POE where there is an extra person or any well if I’m wrong about this person than this person.
I think this will be interesting to compare

Jay/Alison/Nate

I dunno, need to think about that one. That's my gth team though

EWBOP: several other players in this game have not believed that Creature is town.


I want to know where those stances sit now.

Sorry for being snappy.

I don't trust a word you say Nate because you started the day with a post that flipped a townread on me, indicated that you had not read anything overnight to indicate a change in stance, then said you were going to go find evidence to back it up.

It looks like an agenda to me, and even leaked out in your post. And it's been over 24 hours since your vote was placed, and you have not pursued finding any evidence to support said change in stance as you said you would.


Creature has been a point of contention in this game. I still think there is reason to believe he is town. Several other players apparently do not, including you. I would like to know what your read on him is at this moment.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:48 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:02 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:57 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:20 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:13 pm I still think Creature's town tbh. I review two of his scum games and two of his town games in the last year, and his posting is far more in line with his town games. Specifically his paranoid complaints about mis-elimming at EOD. There's just none of that in his scum games, and quite a bit in his town games.

Town

Pandas vs Trash Pandas
RPG Mafia

Scum

Rings of Power
Fall of Númenor



Creature voters, I'm curious if you agree with this take.

@fingersplints @RondoDimBuckle @NateTheLesser

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:24 am @JaggedJimmyJay can I get your current read on Creature?

Can I ask why Creature is a priority for you to solve coming into today?

Creature is one of the few living players to have garnered wagons on them in this game.

I tagged those people because they all had EOD votes on him.

Yeah, I get that. But with the Ender miss, heading into the night phase, was Creature top of your list of players you need to look into? And what conclusions about gamestate etc are you drawing from that?

Also, to answer your actual ping, I honestly don't get much from meta ISOs of other games. Maybe other people do but I don't.

I'm trying to get current reads on a $#%@ing player, which is apparently very impossible to gather

Answer the question please.

They can both be found in my day 4 iso

I'm sipping wine at a winery because I'm classy af, but I'll be around later.

@Boquise please consider my towncase (and also sean's towncase) of Creature when you get a chance

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:57 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:20 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:13 pm I still think Creature's town tbh. I review two of his scum games and two of his town games in the last year, and his posting is far more in line with his town games. Specifically his paranoid complaints about mis-elimming at EOD. There's just none of that in his scum games, and quite a bit in his town games.

Town

Pandas vs Trash Pandas
RPG Mafia

Scum

Rings of Power
Fall of Númenor



Creature voters, I'm curious if you agree with this take.

@fingersplints @RondoDimBuckle @NateTheLesser

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:24 am @JaggedJimmyJay can I get your current read on Creature?

Can I ask why Creature is a priority for you to solve coming into today?

Creature is one of the few living players to have garnered wagons on them in this game.

I tagged those people because they all had EOD votes on him.

Hi I'm normal player

Boquise wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:59 am Thank you Marmot tbh

Also I will be very spammy if I come back and see that no one has done their homework tbh

I'm not going to explain my vote because I want Boq to be spammy.

I didn't call him woof yesterday but whatever

Also, why didn't you say anything to me when I made a full compilation of Sean's reads?

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:17 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:13 am Usually when you imply something, you don't say it, you just imply it.

I meant "what made you think I meant to imply your approach was bullshit".

I don't care about his approach. I don't think it's "bullshit", and as Rondo himself suggests, I've been known to use it myself. I'm more interested in understanding why he chose now to use it, and what made him decide to start doing detailed legacy analyses all of a sudden when he has been posting off the cuff for the rest of the game.

What do you think of his explanation?

Also what do you think of the hostility he showed toward you in that response?

I also might be overestimating my own pushability.

From my POV, not a single EOD wagon was scum this game with the exception of Ender voting Jay yesterday. That is assuming I'm right on Creature/fingersplints being town.

I am starting to become very wary of fingersplints though. I'm worried that I'm not being pushed very strongly this game because I'm the person who is shielding fingersplints. If we're t/t, I do think it would be hard for the wolves to win without mis-elimming at least one of us.

I'm never going skiing with y'all again.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:46 am

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:04 am

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:01 am

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:59 am

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:43 am I'm not reading all that in detail. Is this just a collation of legacy posts by each dead player about each alive player?

It hasnt failed me yet. Dunya called all the wolves day 1 and I just sheeped her reads and pushed them till we won the game (I forget the game, please dont ask me which one). Macs reads are way off this game so I am going for a holistic collective approach (Slash sheep Ender because it works out that he is suspicious of the same people funnily enough). Town can have the right gut read where everyone feels funky about the same person as long as you get a large enough pool over a long period of time you can get some good results. Plus voting doesnt lie. You have to plant your feet and say "this person is bad" (which is why I dont like Lucy's sleep and Boq's no vote because I see it as a cop out but I am trying not to just see it as alignment indicative) so eventually youll have to defend the fact you flipped town.

tl;dr dont like this post

Why wait until now to form your gamestate based on legacy, when legacies from D1/D2 dead players have been out there for ages?

Because multiple town legacies narrow it in with overlapping vendiagrams. I believe you said something to that effect earlier on day 2. So dont start talking like that is bullshit. You said something to that effect when asked about why you care about Mac's dead reads. So maybe you need a -.5 added to your list for sussing me for doing the same?

Where did I say that implied your approach was bullshit?

I asked why you started doing it now... which implies that I thought you should've been doing it earlier.

Why are you being so hostile in response to simple queries about your thought process and approach?

Usually when you imply something, you don't say it, you just imply it.

[VOTE: Boq] aubergine

tbh

I don't want to do this for Dizzy, it would take way too long.

Sean didn't have a lot to say to/about the players that he is unfamiliar with (Rondo, Nate, Boq) (and tbh I've had the same problem this game), so I'm not putting much stock in those reads. Lucy is the one exception here.

One thing I noticed from this compilation is that Sean basically scumread to some degree everyone he knew fairly well, and had a null read on everyone he didn't know well. Creature is the only exception to this rule (which is another reason I buy it more than some of his other reads).


I did have a qualm with Sean having no townreads on Day 1, but now I see he just doesn't do townreads lol. Note for future games.

@JaggedJimmyJay can I get your current read on Creature?

That was exhausting.

Seanzie's legacy - reads on other players

Alison
P#650 - Day 1, Sean agrees with Mac that Alison pressing Rondo for his anti-town play on Day 1 reeks.
P#1193 - Sean backs off of his early Alison suspicion, but admits it could because she hadn't posted much.
P#1265 - null read.
P#2819 - Day 2, Sean called Alison's "legacy" posts from Day 1 performative and more meta-replicative of her town game than natural.


Boquise
P#1265 - Day 1, town read, although admits that was influenced by thread consensus, rather than being his own personal read.


Creature
P#1193 - Day 1, Sean considers a Jay/Creature scum team, but admits it stems from a tinfoil of Jay, but also that Creature originally good content is fading.
P#1265 - null read.
P#1457 - Sean considers Creature's strong rebuttal to Mac's proposal a reasonable argument for Creature to be town (or possibly wolves with Mac, who has since flipped town).
P#2450 - Day 2, Sean doesn't like Jay's vote on Creature, and also thinks Creature isn't a good vote.
P#2463 - Sean explains further his thoughts on why Creature is town, namely that is doomsayer posts and against-the-grain reads don't align with a player wanting to fit in in a strong playerlist.


fingersplints
P#1265 - Day 1, nullish read.
P#2553 - Day 2, Sean doesn't have an opinion of fingersplints, says he will ISO her.
P#2664 - Sean tells fingersplints he might vote for her, asks her if she thinks the heat she's received is justified.
P#2734 - Votes for fingersplints (he eventually ends up on Wilgy).


JaggedJimmyJay
P#54 - Day 0, Gives Jay a page 2 townread.
P#1193 - Day 1, This is the Creature/Jay team post. Sean calls townread of him weird and overly generous, and also calls his whole readlist in general a sort-by-postcount list (albeit he accepts that's natural sometimes).
P#1265 - Nullish read.
P#2073 - Day 2, Sean says that he's wary of Jay's interactive analyses, specifically that they're quick, the reasons for anti-teaming people are weak, and the exercise is bad. This discussion continues for a while.
P#2089 - Sean votes for Jay, based on a vote that Jay called opportunistic.
P#2450 - Sean gets bad feels from Jay voting for Creature.
P#2467 - Sean admits to lucy that he's naturally wary of players like Jay (players with clout), and inherently doesn't trust them, so doesn't want to push him too hard. He also doesn't feel he can get the thread backing for it.
P#3044 - Sean thinks that a red Wilgy means we should give Jay more of a look.


lucy
P#66 - Day 0, Sean gives lucy a townread for snideness, curiosity, and pushing the game forward.
P#1265 - Day 1, strong town read.
P#2206 - Day 2, pressgate begins. This is an extended back and forth that involves lucy saying that she would expect sean to be more aggressive, and sean pressuring her on why she would expect him to behave that way.
P#2213 - Sean votes for lucy.
P#2493 - Sean explains to Nate that he dropped his pressure of lucy (Nate had inferred that Sean was still suspicious of her).


Marmot
P#55 - Day 0, Sean votes me (it's a joke because I asked someone to vote for me).
P#1141 - Day 1, Sean doesn't care for my early progression of him, thinks I'm trying to shade him.
P#1193 - Sean thinks I would have a different take on him if he were town, but admits that might be ego-driven.
P#1265 - Scum read.
P#1903 - Day 2, Sean votes for me.
P#1904 - Sean spends some time arguing that he thinks I don't believe in my reasoning for voting for him.
P#2082 - Sean talks about Wilgy, but maintains that I'm the scumread he feels strongest about still.
P#2155 - Sean votes for me again.
P#2437 - Sean explains to lucy that he thinks that I was fanning the flames during the pressgate discourse.
P#2444 - Sean votes for me again.
P#2493 - Sean tells Nate he should rethink his townread on me.
P#2552 - Sean doesn't like the composition of my wagon, but wants to flip me still (but we can see now that wagon of Wilgy, Sean, Ender is pure lol).
P#2824 - Sean tells Rondo he's still not opposed to my wagon.
P#2833 - Sean votes for me again.


NateTheLesser
P#1265 - Day 1, Nullish read.
P#1367 - Sean votes for Nate.
P#1452 - Sean doesn't understand why people townread Nate, he considers him null.

RondoDimBuckle
P#552 - Day 1, Sean says he doesn't know how to read players like Rondo, so he doesn't try to.
P#563 - Sean would support a policy chop on Rondo if there's nothing better.
P#1265 - Nullish read.


Note: I only included posts where Sean mentions a specific read or votes for a player. I ignored all other discussion of or interaction with players. I also noted where extended discussions happened regarding Sean's read on a player, but only listed the first one.

goat

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:13 pm I still think Creature's town tbh. I review two of his scum games and two of his town games in the last year, and his posting is far more in line with his town games. Specifically his paranoid complaints about mis-elimming at EOD. There's just none of that in his scum games, and quite a bit in his town games.

Town

Pandas vs Trash Pandas
RPG Mafia

Scum

Rings of Power
Fall of Númenor



Creature voters, I'm curious if you agree with this take.

@fingersplints @RondoDimBuckle @NateTheLesser

Why is this a tragedy lol. Town is supposed to lose this setup 75% of the time

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:10 pm Okay then. I guess I get to play the part of Ephemera or Lag or Achromatic in this mountainous tragedy. Woohoo.

I am going to have a whole lot going on over the next real-time day or so including this evening, but I will be here when I can to try to make a positive difference in this game. I'm going to try to start from scratch and do a full reassessment of the entire game. I didn't even look at this thing during the night phase. So please be patient. The game doesn't have to be torched in a dumpster.

What's the comparison between you and these players?

I still think Creature's town tbh. I review two of his scum games and two of his town games in the last year, and his posting is far more in line with his town games. Specifically his paranoid complaints about mis-elimming at EOD. There's just none of that in his scum games, and quite a bit in his town games.

Town

Pandas vs Trash Pandas
RPG Mafia

Scum

Rings of Power
Fall of Númenor



Creature voters, I'm curious if you agree with this take.

Thanks again for the vote charts Nate, I look forward to it.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:45 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:32 pm I shoulda done poll snapshots, that would've been useful.

There was a time yesterday when Alison was a primary candidate alongside Jay (and possibly Ender too at the time), and her wagon fell off in place of Ender's. I'm not sure if there's anything significant about that, but it's plausible given that Ender was probably always going to be easier to elim than Alison.

My spreadsheet stuff should be ready later this evening, so that'll help for things like this.

Is this suspicion that Alison was being saved?

Not necessarily. More that Jay is definitely a wolf here, and that Ender was a more optimal counter-wagon to save him.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:42 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:24 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:17 pm [VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

I've lost a lot of confidence that my early game focus was good, and this is where my gut reassessment is telling me to start. Haven't had much time to re-read overnight, so I'll attach actual reasoning as I go back and check my gut against actual posts.

I would like you to explain more when you can. I'll be honest, this looks like an excuse to conf-bias yourself into voting me.

I will. Whatever this is it's not conf-bias, it's explicitly a change of opinion.

Sure. It's just that you've stated you haven't had time to reread, but are voting me and going to find reasoning for it.

I believe you'd had a townread on me to this point, albeit you've often stated that NKA points to me being a wolf. So I'm curious why your gut read is pointing to me.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:29 pm I should clarify that I am not happy with Ender going over at all and I am going to be reassessing everything

Were you confident he was town? I honestly don't remember.