The Syndicate

XthAtGAm3RGuYX wrote:It also doesn't help that in 90% of the games I play I can't help but see most day 1 talk as baseless banter. Game doesn't really start until day 2 for me.

I understand this as a principle, but surely you wouldn't say that applies to this game?

Long Con wrote:Comments on issues rather than players are an easy way for a baddie to be involved without getting their hands dirty.

I feel like this is so on point.

I'm personally still inclined more towards seeing SVS as suspicious than Hedgeowl, but they'd be my numbers one and two right now.

I feel like this has been a remarkably productive day 0/day 1. A lot of real stuff is happening here. I wonder if it's because MP wasn't around to clutter up the thread

Yes, TH, that's exactly what I was trying to do. I felt like Hedgeowl's statement was definitely something that could be referred back to later to defend LC or SVS, and I didn't want to allow it to be used that way. I could definitely see a scenario where Hedgeowl is in a team with LC or SVS and was hoping to have some else run with her comment and imply that LC or SVS were being bandwagoned.

Also, her response question 'Did I say that?' - was a noteworthy response to me.

@nutella - I agree, I think the rule implies we can. I just like to be extra careful because I don't like getting punishment. But I really want to discuss them because I think we might be able to make more sense of them together than apart.

Sloonei wrote:@ Golden - Why are you inclined to lean civ on Gumshoe?

Vibe. It's hard to read someone I have no experience with, but his posts read genuine to me.

Overall, my read on Gumshoe has been that I lean civilian. And I agree he has been one of the higher contributors. I just found that one post inconsistent in its thought process (so thanks for providing an explanation, gumshoe. It makes sense to me. I agree with you on Cobalt's logic for finding someone bad - when new to a site, and with no knowledge of anyone's meta, it's probably actually one of the better reasons).

There has certainly been a lot of 'interesting' in this game. Also, I hope we get some clarification from Dom soon because I really want to talk about that PM.

Sure Cobalt. What do you make of the Epi/SVS/LC situation. Throw me in there for good measure if you like.

I probably didn't make it clear enough in my initial response to that post that I was pinged by it too, Sloonei (I took a bit of a flippant approach). What confused me about it was that it appeared to be defending Cobalt's view - and then turned around on him. I'm not at all sure what he was intending to say by it either.

Without saying more, this is why I asked dom if we could talk about them.

Are we allowed to speak of our PMs in the thread at all?

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Ok somethings that I find interesting are.
1. S~V~S pulling quotes.
2. Gumshoe saying that S~V~S was buddy up to LC, when the same could be said about him trying to buddy up with Epi.

What specifically is your view on SVS pulling quotes?

Neverwhere wrote: I'm pretty sure you have to buy all those programmes. I am too poor for that shit Also technologically inept.

People should never underestimate the technologically inept.

My approach to avatars is ask someone else to do it. I did not make mine.

I indeed will be happy to see the return of the crab (although your current one is pretty funny).

Sloonei wrote:How normal is it for people to be actively engaged in scum-hunting and gameplay during Day 0 around here?

It's normal if your name is Golden. But I'm not sure it's usually that normal generally.

As for the rest of this post. It really makes me only feel worse about SVS. Responses in pink

S~V~S wrote:
Golden wrote:Epi just dropped the mic!

Now the case on SVS I sort of see. I could have used the word interesting in this thread, but the chances of me remembering whether I did or didn't is zero. Defending LC's use of the word while pointing out she did it herself I could definitely see as a potential move to make herself look better if LC flipped civ.

It's a little thing, but this is my first legitimate ping.
I did a search when Epi made a big deal of it, and three people had used it. I was one of them. When they came for me, to paraphrase that WW2 German pastor, there was no one left to speak for me. If Epi led a lynch on someone for use of a common word, I might be next.

Are you trying to suggest that you did not know you used the word interesting when you made that search? Then why did you make it? Isn't it a slightly odd thing to do to make a search of who used the word 'interesting'? Normally, if you disagreed with a word being suspicious, you would just say that - you wouldn't do a search. So we honest - did you remember you used it, or didn't you?

Golden wrote:Also, are you eating bean dip?

This is fun. Epi reminds me of me when I think I've caught baddies on day zero.

And did you?

Not relevant. When I said I got civ vibes from epi, I also said I didn't agree with his case on LC. It's about tone and approach, and this looks different to the way I'm used to epi questioning people.

It reminds me of Epi in almost every game I have ever played with him, good or bad, with his cryptic Day One (or Zero as the case may be) gambits & mind games. Yoni, as TGG told me it was called (repeatedly ) during Biblical.

You don't have to get civ vibes from epi - doesn't mean I can't.

Golden wrote:Hey, for the first time ever I'm getting civ vibes from Epi!

I don't agree with the case on LC, but I do agree that this game has not gotten in the least bit interesting (linki - sorry SVS!).

For me, the most interesting post this game is the one Cobalt posted, which Timmer quoted above. I think there are quite a number of players in this game who could point to games where they have played the super-civvie. Especially invoking the 'my most recent game' thing... and all in a comment where he purports not to care if we vote for him. Do I see potential civilian motives for posting it? Yes. It's not easy to have a voice in a place where you are not known, so making a cred grab isn't necessarily inherently suspicious.

But civilians don't usually go around flashing their supatown credentials.
Now I found this post interesting. What about him gave you that civ vibe? His back & forth with MP? His vaguely sneering tone? If you are getting a civvie vibe from him, what do you think of MP?

I have no read on MP. Nothing Epi did on MP had any relevance to me saying I got civ vibes from Epi, which given my timing on saying it (coming right after his case on LC) I think you know very well.

I have not made my mind up on Epi, but I gotta say (and he knows it) that I loathe his fishing expeditions, the way he throws fake suspicions out early in the game to gauge reactions, then drops them after Day One.

We don't know epi is going to drop anything after day 1 since it's still day 0.

And I don't like Rainbow lists, I don't like ANY lists this early in the game, especially with 2 mafias. With one mafia, the baddies already know who is who, or more precisely, who is a civ. Two mafias complicates things, and lists naming who people trust help the baddies at this stage; I will be happy to list those I don't trust, but not those that I do. And if I am alive to make a list later in the game, it will be not be a rainbow. We had a discussion about Rainbow lists in the mod forum, which prompted me to find my new nifty grey rainbow avatar. And I will look askew at those who use list posting as a litmus test.

I can appreciate that perspective. I took the same one into economics, and I got grumpy with people for wanting me to reveal too much of my thinking too early. I'm certainly not going to be making rainbow lists at an early stage in this game. BUT I'll consider making them later, and I don't begrudge those who do for making them.

If this is Day Zero Day One should be fabulous

All up - this post is exactly the kind of thing I expect from you if you are bad - you are throwing out generalisations to discredit epi, stuff like suggesting he will drop the suspicion after day 1. People who don't know epi, by the way, are picking up on this and it's making them think twice about epi. That's not necessarily a terrible thing, but certainly it's bad if people are only thinking you are bad because epi told them to...

For me there are two separate things in play. One is the case on SVS. One is Epi's alignment. I don't think you are bad because I think epi is civ. I think you are bad because I think your own posts make you look that way.

S~V~S wrote:
Golden wrote:Hey, for the first time ever I'm getting civ vibes from Epi!
Now I found this post interesting. What about him gave you that civ vibe?

Golden wrote:Epi reminds me of me when I think I've caught baddies on day zero.

Star Wars just got weird.

I feel like Luke Skywalker

If anyone here is my father, please just get it over with.

Not everyone loves supatown golden.

I mean, I know I kept posting those rainbow lists without spoiler tags because I thought you were a baddie and wanted to annoy you, but I'd agree with them going behind spoiler tags. But rainbow reads are much shorter than that.

Seriously, though - people's rainbow reads will not be nearly as long as G-Man's lists (posted by me) - I can understand why they were really fucking annoying, but I still believe in keeping relevant information exposed if its not too long. It's harder to case people when they put their most relevant thoughts behind spoiler tags. Perhaps it could depend on how much additional information they put into their rainbow lists?

I believe in the creative commons

Besides, I invented it for you.

Gumshoe wrote:I'm going to make my list in ever-so-slightly different shades of grey.

Grainbow.

@hedge - No you definitely didn't say that - it wasn't clear to me if that is what you were intending to say, though, so thanks for clarifying.

Hedgeowl - if several people ended up voting for LC or SVS today, would you consider that there seemed to be good reasons for that, or are you saying that you find the reasons to suspect LC and SVS unconvincing?

Also, are you eating bean dip?

This is fun. Epi reminds me of me when I think I've caught baddies on day zero.

Epi just dropped the mic!

Now the case on SVS I sort of see. I could have used the word interesting in this thread, but the chances of me remembering whether I did or didn't is zero. Defending LC's use of the word while pointing out she did it herself I could definitely see as a potential move to make herself look better if LC flipped civ.

It's a little thing, but this is my first legitimate ping.

Also, bwt, thank you for bussing bass in economics!

But BWT is a noob!

(BWT, 8 was gone a reeeeeeeeeeeally long time ago. Blame SVS.)

Hey, for the first time ever I'm getting civ vibes from Epi!

I don't agree with the case on LC, but I do agree that this game has not gotten in the least bit interesting (linki - sorry SVS!).

For me, the most interesting post this game is the one Cobalt posted, which Timmer quoted above. I think there are quite a number of players in this game who could point to games where they have played the super-civvie. Especially invoking the 'my most recent game' thing... and all in a comment where he purports not to care if we vote for him. Do I see potential civilian motives for posting it? Yes. It's not easy to have a voice in a place where you are not known, so making a cred grab isn't necessarily inherently suspicious.

But civilians don't usually go around flashing their supatown credentials.

Also, I will be voting Epi unless something changes. He seems like a good place for a random vote.

So Cobalt could pick 5/6 of the mafia team because he was on it?

I've always had a policy of not voting newbies on day one and it has nothing to do with giving anyone a free pass.

Newbies often need time to figure it out. My first game I was civ and I nearly got lynched day one because people thought I'd taken to the game too easily and must have teammates. I've seen similar things happen all the time - newbies are suspicious either for knowing to much or making some apparent 'slip', but the simple reality is most of the things people think are baddie signals from newbies are just them figuring out the game.

I think newbie lynches on day one are easy mafia marks and tend to have contrived cases.

It's not a 100% rule - if a newbie was to do something that made it so incredibly obvious they were mafia, then of course I will vote them still. But that is very rarely the case (I haven't seen it yet). It's more like a 99% rule.

Neverwhere wrote:I am here. I picked 12. I need to wake up.

Votes are changeable, so you can go back and pick one someone else hasn't.

My first game there was superheroes, which was the game after the Fey. I didn't play any of those ones, but I'm sure we lined up somewhere along the road.

Nutella did I ever play with you on Rev Mafia? You seem vaguely familiar.

Dom said a number could only be taken by one person, so I'm assuming he is expecting we look at the poll and only pick a number that hasn't been taken yet.

Different hosts and different games will do things differently, but when llama hosted keeler mafia everyone had to pick an item and only the first person to choose that item got it. So being second just meant you lost out.

You have another 8 rival!

thellama73 wrote:I am the person to complain to.

Yes. If anyone needs a serious moment, they should PM the dude with the moustache, fez and monocle.

I picked 17 because SVS was too quick (or perhaps I could say I was behind the 8 ball).

S~V~S wrote:Eight. I always pick eight.

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