The Syndicate

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:14 am I don't understand how we've made it to this situation

We are just doing too well at it.

6v1 left means we are ahead of the curve and of course everyone looks town because almost everyone is town.

Now maybe we go through 1 or 2 days with mislynches until we can get mad at each other again.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:12 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:20 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:14 pm Juliets lacks any votes, mechanics, allegiances or anti-alignments that separate her as town. All she has is a. her claim (do scum have fakeclaims, idk) and b. the fact that she's felt pretty towny all game. She's been in that second-to-lynch position, but keeps scraping by.

Everyone else in the game has more than she does separating them from the scumteam.

Thanks for saving me the words.

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine

Yeah and I know you are not voting here but I feel juliets' "not telling Jack to move away from MP" looks less good than Nanook tagging me to make me change to MP and then later convincing me to do it when I showed up 3 minutes before the deadline.

Let me be devil’s advocate.

If Juliets is a wolf with MP, her giving up her vote and convincing me to vote away from Tony means there is a 2/3rds chance I vote a wolf instead. It doesn’t take her out of anyone’s POE except maybe mine.

If Nanook is a wolf with MP, the important thing is that he’s not in the POE and he remains not in the POE. A hard bus helps a lot with that.

You know what is better than not being in the POE?

A game with 5 townies and 2 scum left.

That's when it starts to look like a game that town can't win.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:37 pm I’d switch to MP, lemme see if DDL is around/willing to

This is when nanook changed. I was in the middle of a family conversation at this time.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:50 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:49 am I also don't like that juliets is trying to get the entire town to claim.

At this point, any claim from someone not in danger of being lynched benefits the mafia.

I am NOT trying to get people to claim their ability. Just their character. I don't see how that benefits the mafia in the least.

If the flavor is related to the role, it can be a hint.

And if it's not related to the role at all, then why are we claiming again?

At best, nothing happens. At worst, it helps mafia decide who to kill.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:48 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:47 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:42 am

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:39 am Someone remind me why we town cleared DDL. I can't remember the reason.

D1 radish push looked really good. He also initiated the MP switch for the DDL/Nanook crew yesterday, as I understand it.

I suggested we changed away from Wilgy, then went offline.

When I came back, Nanook had switched to MP and was trying to convince me to do the same.

Did you suggest changing to a specific person?

Nope, the idea to lynch MP came from nanook, at least when concering our private chat.

We'll have to reread the thread to see how he came up with that.

I also don't like that juliets is trying to get the entire town to claim.

At this point, any claim from someone not in danger of being lynched benefits the mafia.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:42 am

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:39 am Someone remind me why we town cleared DDL. I can't remember the reason.

D1 radish push looked really good. He also initiated the MP switch for the DDL/Nanook crew yesterday, as I understand it.

I suggested we changed away from Wilgy, then went offline.

When I came back, Nanook had switched to MP and was trying to convince me to do the same.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:42 am So the decision for you is between me and Nanook?

I didn't say that. I just disagreed with Speed's point.

Right now I want to lynch either you or speed, tbh.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:42 am Regardless, just remember when I flip how often and how adamant I was that I am town. Don't say I didn't work hard enough to dispute these allegations, or that I gave up. Also remember how hard I have worked to try and solve this game.

I promise I won't say any of those things.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:03 am So I'm feeling good about Tony, but I'm also failing to understand why he's this locktown after yesterday. What was the argument again? I think I missed something.

Oh I guess some of the posts in this page elaborate on that.

It's just because MP really wanted to lynch Tony?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:14 pm Juliets lacks any votes, mechanics, allegiances or anti-alignments that separate her as town. All she has is a. her claim (do scum have fakeclaims, idk) and b. the fact that she's felt pretty towny all game. She's been in that second-to-lynch position, but keeps scraping by.

Everyone else in the game has more than she does separating them from the scumteam.

Thanks for saving me the words.

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine

Yeah and I know you are not voting here but I feel juliets' "not telling Jack to move away from MP" looks less good than Nanook tagging me to make me change to MP and then later convincing me to do it when I showed up 3 minutes before the deadline.

So I'm feeling good about Tony, but I'm also failing to understand why he's this locktown after yesterday. What was the argument again? I think I missed something.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:42 pm Because SOMEONE is hard-bussing in this game, somewhere.

Wher would juliets or Tony be hard bussing?

Of course people were doubting WIlgy's claim, there's no way Bolsonaro should be town!

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:53 am

juliets wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:49 am @speedchuck I don't think I understand your post but I'm having trouble articulating why. I'll keep trying.

TL;DR

Jack wants to clear the entire old POE (Tony, Juliets, Wilgy) because MP was comfortable with it as is.
I counter that MP didn't have the time or opportunity to change that POE in the first place, but possibly indicated that he wanted to.

linki: Jack answered too.

And I'd like to add that just because MP agreed with a POE doesn't mean it doesn't include his teammates.

POEs change. And if I am mafia I ideally want to be my teammates' second favorite option, forever.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:33 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:22 am I didn't feel like MP was a lock lynch. Like, at all.

I mean, eventually. I think he was probably tied with Speedchuck or a little ahead of him as 4th most suspected player.

I agree he was nothing close to the lock lynch yesterday.

You realize there is no guarantee anyone will follow that PoE of your except you, right?

I didn't feel like MP was a lock lynch. Like, at all.

And this was 3 minutes left. Let's say I ask nanook and he simply fails to reply. He can later blame me for disappearing while still claiming he was on MP.

He was already voting MP. I gave him the chance to nullify his own vote, in a way that puts the blame on me, and he passed on it.

Well I'm caught up now but since this is NP I'll take the chance to let another 48 hours of thread slip by probably.

Tag me if you want me to notice something.

Cya.

It's either speed or juliets imo.

With maybe wilgy as a dark horse but I don't see it.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:45 pm I just caught up.

Dragon D. Luffy You should totally sign up for BK mafia, it's got limited posts... and I checked and you had. Awesome.
You should also say why you're scumreading me because I don't actually know and info is always good.

I don't know either.

I'm just not strongly townreading you anymore and this was a PoE thing.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:24 pm He also hasn’t showed today. I can’t imagine being scum and not showing up. That’s a sort of out of game clear, but oh well.

We seriously need to drop this concept.

If you are busy irl and you think you can't play, you will not show up for a forum game regardless of whtehr your teammates are in a chat with you or not.

And damn sorry MP. I didn't actually want to lynch you two consecutive days. I juat did here cuz I regretted voting Wilgy and I didn't have time to build a better case. Though it worked out in the end, lol.

Hope to play more games with you, man.

Nanook is lock town.

I left in the last hour and ended up being caught up on some critical family stuff. Then later I realized I was going to miss EoD, entered discord and asked nanook what to do.

"We don't want to lynch Wilgy. Do you want to lynch MP?" - he said.

I decided to follow him.

Scum nanook had the perfect chance to save a teammate here and he passed.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:35 pm

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:22 pm

Well, hopefully that is helpful. Interestingly, Tony is the overwhelming option for scum.

If all of DDL, Hyena, Jack, and Nanook are indeed town, I think we've won? Almost.

Well, if we add Wilgy's onto this, it changes to:

DDL 4-1
Wilgy 2-3
Hyena 5-0
Jack 5-0
juliets 2-3
Nanook 6-0
MP7 3-2
speed 5-1
Tony 1-5

Why are some people at 6 total and some 5 total?

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:01 pm MP7

speed

Tony

town
scum
scum

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:59 pm juliets

Nanook

scum
town

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:58 pm Hyena

Jackofhearts2005

town
town

Yes I'm voting WIlgy will cross that bridge later.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:56 pm Here are the first two:

Dragon D. Luffy

DrWilgy

town
town

GTH might be better provided we can ban neutral

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:49 pm townread Juliets, Tony, Speed, Wilgy and MP?

Zero.

Tony seems to be the person I've read the most convincing arguments both for and against voting today.

I've realized I still enjoy the more social aspects of mafia but catching up on hundreds of posts is basically torture.

I think next time I'll play one of those games that have restriced post count.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:41 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:40 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:39 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:37 pm Wilgy is the catching up is too big skip a bunch of it and get to the present. Catch up the rest later.

Trying lol. DDL what's your stance. Outside of the obv easy vote?

I literally don't suspect anyone and at least lynching you seemed like a safe-ish thing to do.

That might change in the next couple hours.

Could also lynch one of speed, juliets, Tony or MP I think, but not very convinced.

Nanook is literally impossible since I'm his partner and also I sort of trust him.

Hyena looks town as fuck.

Player Soup?

I forgot what that is

It just dawned to me that lynching someone in the 3-man group is considerably harder since they get to cockblock 2 other people from voting.

That includes MP, speed and hyena.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:39 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:37 pm Wilgy is the catching up is too big skip a bunch of it and get to the present. Catch up the rest later.

Trying lol. DDL what's your stance. Outside of the obv easy vote?

I literally don't suspect anyone and at least lynching you seemed like a safe-ish thing to do.

That might change in the next couple hours.

Could also lynch one of speed, juliets, Tony or MP I think, but not very convinced.

Nanook is literally impossible since I'm his partner and also I sort of trust him.

Hyena looks town as fuck.

Jack why do you townread speed

Wilgy is the catching up is too big skip a bunch of it and get to the present. Catch up the rest later.

Also the 20% won't include ISOs, links or anything with more than 2 quotes per post.

I may or may not be here till deadline but only I as I'm allowed not to read 80% of the posts.

I see

*votes wilgy*

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:33 pm Just seems like maybe there are 4 scum then and they're nerfed even more?

Maybe I'm wrong. Number advantages are pretty enormous.

If there are 4 scum I'd expect town to have a plethora of ways to use abilities to win. Cuz we kind of need it. A non-conditional vig, a cop, a doctor, maybe a tracker/watcher. None of that stuff is dropping. Just giving mafia a bad role doesn't save town from being overwhelmed, because town roles are the ones who make the biggest difference in a game, and mafia roles are more reactive.

If there are 3 scum this looks fine. But if there are 3 scum roles, there is some pressure for them to have enough abilities to counteract the eventual town fluke. Now, MR's role covers a lot of uses (role cop, roleblocker, and one extra of something) so maybe this isn't that big of an issue, but all the power being on MR could be a little swingy. I'd expect the remaining mafia to have at least one of the following: a vote manipulator, some kind of extra kill and some godfather status.

Then again I make my games my way and I don't expect hosts to think exactly like I do.

So what is the chance that the hosts put the two scum together?

Or that they put the scum scum in the 3-man team?

I mean chances are it was random, but if I'm the host I might re-randomize a particularly pro-town or pro-scum setup.

DDL
nanook

Jack
juliets

Tony
Wilgy

MP
speed
Hyena

Posting just to have it noted somewhere.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:23 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:19 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:17 pm Tony makes the night polls apparently. I have no reason to think that role is town or scum.

These kinds of roles tend to be more like town imo. If you have to balance a team of three scum having one of them be zero utility is a major inbalance point, while for the town side it's a good way to keep the town team from being OP.

If there are 4 scum I'd expect the town to have much stronger roles, though, which hasn't been the case so far.

=.=

So... the role is town because it's not powerful enough to be scum... but there are only three scum because town is not powerful enough...

Seems kinda backward.

Also go back and read LC's power if you think town doesn't have strong roles.

Still don't think that's super strong tbh. In most games it doesn't even get activated.

Most of town has had weak stuff which suggests an effort from the hosts to keep a 4-1 proportion under control.

My line of logic is "town roles are mostly weak" -> "there are 3 scum" -> "Tony's role being scum nerfs them too much"

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:20 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:17 pm The speed/Tony thunderdome has been interesting in that it gave good arguments both/again both sides.

I do think Tony looks shadier now after speed quoted his posts shading me for going after MR. While speed looks okay due to his second vote on MR. But I still have a good gut feeling about Tony and not much about speed...

And yeah Wolgy is a valid option. Low activity is not a great reason to lynch him but I feel not enough people are considering/voting for it which means scum could be avoiding him.

This is the first I've heard about me and Tony being in a Thunderdome. And about any arguments given against me. Tony was just one of several people I wanted to ISO.

What thread are you in?

THunderdome wasn't the right word but there has been a comparison between you and him goingthis page.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 4:17 pm Tony makes the night polls apparently. I have no reason to think that role is town or scum.

These kinds of roles tend to be more like town imo. If you have to balance a team of three scum having one of them be zero utility is a major inbalance point, while for the town side it's a good way to keep the town team from being OP.

If there are 4 scum I'd expect the town to have much stronger roles, though, which hasn't been the case so far.

For the record nanook changed his vote without asking me (second time he does that) but he also voted where I was thinking of voting (again, second time that happens).

The speed/Tony thunderdome has been interesting in that it gave good arguments both/again both sides.

I do think Tony looks shadier now after speed quoted his posts shading me for going after MR. While speed looks okay due to his second vote on MR. But I still have a good gut feeling about Tony and not much about speed...

And yeah Wolgy is a valid option. Low activity is not a great reason to lynch him but I feel not enough people are considering/voting for it which means scum could be avoiding him.

I wonder what happens if the two people in a team disagree with their vote.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:20 am So, does anyone think their tag team buddy is scum?

I'm very paranoid about the fact the day 1 wagon on him was pure.

Otherwise I lean town.