Coronavirus Mafia [ENDGAME]

[juliets]

I'm going to call it a night and will look back at the ISOs of Tony in the morning. Also interested to see speed's potential new info.

[speedchuck]

Like what kind of a question is “if you’re alive at f3 and chuck and Jules flipped town and Tony’s alive too, would you consider he might be mafia?”

What am I gonna say, “no I’ll bury my head in the sand and try to TK chuck a second time?”

ur supposed to give up and lynch yourself at that point

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

MP's last D2 rainbow:

Fixed:

MP7 random D2 feels reads whatever man

lock town
nutella
Nanook

strong town
Jack
Tony

maybe town
Hyena
LC
speed

POE by default
DDL
juliets
DrWilgy
Sloonei

Contrasted to his post-reincarnation D3 rainbow (sidenote: fuck, is it really just D4? This game has been action packed, man):

Gut-based MP7 2.0 D3 reads

Strong town:
Jack
Nanook

Moderate town:
Hyena

Slight town:
speed
DDL

POE:
DrWilgy
juliets
Tony

Jack and me have been consolidated to the same tier. DDL takes a step up from POE to slight town. Chuck stays in the same place, so do Wilgy and Jules and Hyena. The most interesting part, at least imo, is the precipitous drop of Tony from strong town to POE.

Now, maybe someone that knows MP's scum game will jump in and say "MP always shades his partners" or some shit like that ruin my evening, but to me that looks like MP going "shit, I'm scum now and I don't have enough suspects, who can I put....Tony, he's got suspicion on him, nobody will second guess me suspecting him too."

So yeah, pretty uninterested in Tony rn. If it comes to f3 (please lord no), obviously I would reconsider, but, I mean....this looks pretty convincing to me tbh, enough so that it's pretty well reaffirmed my decision not to seriously consider Tony today.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I guess Chuck took a half step up actually, MP fucking me up by not using the same colors or tiers.

[Jackofhearts2005]

MP's last D2 rainbow:

Fixed:

MP7 random D2 feels reads whatever man

lock town
nutella
Nanook

strong town
Jack
Tony

maybe town
Hyena
LC
speed

POE by default
DDL
juliets
DrWilgy
Sloonei

Contrasted to his post-reincarnation D3 rainbow (sidenote: fuck, is it really just D4? This game has been action packed, man):

Gut-based MP7 2.0 D3 reads

Strong town:
Jack
Nanook

Moderate town:
Hyena

Slight town:
speed
DDL

POE:
DrWilgy
juliets
Tony

Jack and me have been consolidated to the same tier. DDL takes a step up from POE to slight town. Chuck stays in the same place, so do Wilgy and Jules and Hyena. The most interesting part, at least imo, is the precipitous drop of Tony from strong town to POE.

Now, maybe someone that knows MP's scum game will jump in and say "MP always shades his partners" or some shit like that ruin my evening, but to me that looks like MP going "shit, I'm scum now and I don't have enough suspects, who can I put....Tony, he's got suspicion on him, nobody will second guess me suspecting him too."

So yeah, pretty uninterested in Tony rn. If it comes to f3 (please lord no), obviously I would reconsider, but, I mean....this looks pretty convincing to me tbh, enough so that it's pretty well reaffirmed my decision not to seriously consider Tony today.

I absolutely agree with this. MP’s reactions to Tony are telling, I think.

He was perfectly happy with Tony being lynched yesterday and this confirms that.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think I most suspect Speed at this point?

Which is weird cause I’d have called him my top townread a few days ago.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

It’s not so much that he was OK with tony dying, more that he moved Tony considerably more than any of his other reads. There is a chance that actually means “oh I should distance from my partner,” but I think it looks more like “SRing Tony is convenient and nobody will question me on it” tbh


I don’t really agree with the “MP was fine with X pool so that pool can’t contain his partner” though, that logic falls apart imo cause after one of him or the other mafia flip he or his partner could use exactly the logic you are to try and pull themselves out of the POE.

Or his partner wasn’t in there and he was fine with it.

That one’s more WIFOM imo, especially given how he basically used the same reads minus tony. Idk, I’m not comfortable reading into it anyways.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I’m actually kinda surprised you are tbh, didn’t we win a scum game together by all sussing each other? The wire maybe? It’s pretty much the same logic.

[juliets]

Hmmm good eye Nanook. That drop-off of Tony is significant. I can't remember personally if MP normally shades his partners - It's been years since he played here. I'll give that high weighting when I reconsider Tony today.

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] I completely get how your top townread can become a scum read over a few days. Was there anything you can point to that's caused him to drop or is it gut?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Because SOMEONE is hard-bussing in this game, somewhere.

Wher would juliets or Tony be hard bussing?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

So I'm feeling good about Tony, but I'm also failing to understand why he's this locktown after yesterday. What was the argument again? I think I missed something.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Juliets lacks any votes, mechanics, allegiances or anti-alignments that separate her as town. All she has is a. her claim (do scum have fakeclaims, idk) and b. the fact that she's felt pretty towny all game. She's been in that second-to-lynch position, but keeps scraping by.

Everyone else in the game has more than she does separating them from the scumteam.

Thanks for saving me the words.

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine

Yeah and I know you are not voting here but I feel juliets' "not telling Jack to move away from MP" looks less good than Nanook tagging me to make me change to MP and then later convincing me to do it when I showed up 3 minutes before the deadline.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

So I'm feeling good about Tony, but I'm also failing to understand why he's this locktown after yesterday. What was the argument again? I think I missed something.

Oh I guess some of the posts in this page elaborate on that.

It's just because MP really wanted to lynch Tony?

[juliets]

Juliets lacks any votes, mechanics, allegiances or anti-alignments that separate her as town. All she has is a. her claim (do scum have fakeclaims, idk) and b. the fact that she's felt pretty towny all game. She's been in that second-to-lynch position, but keeps scraping by.

Everyone else in the game has more than she does separating them from the scumteam.

Thanks for saving me the words.

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine

Yeah and I know you are not voting here but I feel juliets' "not telling Jack to move away from MP" looks less good than Nanook tagging me to make me change to MP and then later convincing me to do it when I showed up 3 minutes before the deadline.

So the decision for you is between me and Nanook?

Regardless, just remember when I flip how often and how adamant I was that I am town. Don't say I didn't work hard enough to dispute these allegations, or that I gave up. Also remember how hard I have worked to try and solve this game.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

So the decision for you is between me and Nanook?

I didn't say that. I just disagreed with Speed's point.

Right now I want to lynch either you or speed, tbh.

Regardless, just remember when I flip how often and how adamant I was that I am town. Don't say I didn't work hard enough to dispute these allegations, or that I gave up. Also remember how hard I have worked to try and solve this game.

I promise I won't say any of those things.

[speedchuck]

About Tony.

My previous Tony ISO, which he has yet to respond to:

Spoiler: show

TONY STARK BUILT THIS ISO IN A CAVE!

My character is so fun to roleplay as that I don’t know how. LC can die but if the point of the game is complete our personal vendettas against LC maybe we’re going down the wrong path

Hmm, let’s spread the love
Vote
DDL

The more I think about it the more I don't like these posts. The attitudes are wrong.

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

Your attitudes are wrong

The exchange with MR that got Tony some town cred. I don't think it's bad, bot not worthy of cred either. This MR vote lacks substance, has no case, and should NEVER have remained till the end of the day. Textbook distancing, because nobody is going to follow up on it.

I think it's more tonal impurity that I see in Tony so far than anything concerning his attitudes toward the game.

Although upon a second read I do agree that 'spreading the love' is an odd attitude. It seems like an easy way to get a vote down and spread the votes into something anti-town more than spreading it into something pro-town if you catch my drift.

I don’t catch your drift. Why is it anti-town to have my vote on someone who I think is suspicious? what of that idea is anti-town

He never said he thought DDL was suspicious. I asked, even, and... well we'll get to that later.

What if Tony and MR are both scum?

Funny, I was thinking MR and you

Distancing.

it’s 112 and tony it was right in front of us this whole time

lol I meant between you and MR

'lol' tell get em

Deflection and distancing when 112 guessed on a relationship between Tony and MR.

Nanook, Tony, nutella, based on your own role card, what alignment do you think Alex Jones would have?

town

Here's the town cred everyone is talking about.
And.
Yeah, this is a ballsy scum play if it is one. I mean, scum might have a towny-looking role as reference, but still I'd grant some good points to this one. Maybe. For reasons that others have discussed.

Now it's time for you people to explain why everyone and their dog is townreading Radishes because I don't see it.

Alternatively, let's lynch him.

In general I'm town reading DDL for going against quo on the page, but the phrasing seems ___stilted___ and repetitive -- forced in a sense (the same "I don't see it" idea). I'm not one of those micro-post analysts but it throws me off.

Shading DDL's vote while distancing himself from directly talking about radishes... or scumreading DDL. Subtle discouragement.

Tony saying he thought Alex Jones would be town read as a not-scum thing to say imo, especially since it came after me and nutella said the opposite

I agree.

I agree as well.

I can't speak to this argument cause obvious bias but the uniform agreement bugs me

I don't know whether I like this or not. It's almost try-too-hard, like Tony is showing how he can suspect people for propping him up too well. It also gives more publicity to his best reason for being townread.
Or it's genuine, and a good look. You be the judge.

MR sitting on Tony the whole round looks bad on him, like he can't pick anyone else who warrants a vote on them.

is this a serious take

(This post might not be in the right place. I messed up my copy-pasta. It's close, though.)
Needless to say I do NOT like this response. Yes it's serious. Bloody good take, too.

I'll vote for Sig over Nanook. Weird to vote for Sig on the case "he hasn't said anything crazy yet" and I know that's the kind of reputation that's really annoying to shake, but there's nothing else to be done.

Completely ignoring MR, which seems to be a theme in the last few posts that sorta concerned MR or voting.

@TonyStarkPrime talk to me about Speedchuck. You have a vote on them right now.

He's felt disengenuous to me

This is probably my least favorite Tony post just reading the ISO real fast. Can you expand on this, Tony?

I don't remember what the circumstances were. I can go back and check if you want.

Here is the reasons:

I don’t catch your drift. Why is it anti-town to have my vote on someone who I think is suspicious? what of that idea is anti-town

why is ddl suspicious to you he ain't done nothin

a post like this when two posts later he says that Juliets is scum for asking about a day 1 vote for instance

Asking why he found DDL suspicious (a question he never answered) is disingenous? Because I had a scumread on someone else that I explained (even if it wasn't strong)? What!?

almost switched to MR for the fun of it but by golly is that a terrible plan

This is almost too on-the-nose for me to believe it came from scum. It's hilarious if Tony is scum, and gives me an even bigger estimation of the man's cajones.

-
There is no reaction to the flip.
-

I think your argument can be boiled down to “Option 2 seems useless but at least pro-town” which is probably wrong on at least one side

I mean, suppose Donald Trump is mafia. Hard to say forcing someone to do a Donald Trump impression isn't protown.

It's just the implication that if the mafia was like Trump, VInce McMahon, Kelly Loeffler, etc, that option would be too good so things aren't that easy.

Idk. There should be some sort of theme to the scum team, I'd imagine.

that's not the scum team

I don't know if this was supposed to mean that Tony was one of these roles and is town, but... well yeah, I don't know. I should probably tag each WTF moment I have in this ISO for Tony to answer.

I think your argument can be boiled down to “Option 2 seems useless but at least pro-town” which is probably wrong on at least one side

I mean, suppose Donald Trump is mafia. Hard to say forcing someone to do a Donald Trump impression isn't protown.

It's just the implication that if the mafia was like Trump, VInce McMahon, Kelly Loeffler, etc, that option would be too good so things aren't that easy.

Idk. There should be some sort of theme to the scum team, I'd imagine.

I don't think we should assume affiliations are tied to roleplaying in any way. That's a bad way to run an open set-up game.

This is probably wrong too

Incorrect. Which is maybe a good look? Either that or Tony's being wrong on purpose after so much right-ness about the setup.

I’m town. Process of elimination gives you my character and my power follows swiftly. I don’t think I’ll be around much in the following day phase, so please don’t try to lynch me.

POE does what now? I have no idea how we're supposed to guess TSP's character and/or power here. This post needs explained.

I always suspect Juliets. I’m right sometimes.
I don’t think it’s MP come at me Hyena.

Since Juliets is another main suspect I thought I'd toss this up here. A couple posts from now he suggests lynching her. Possibly an indicator of 'not W/W'.

I don't like the Sloonei secret lynch it seems wrong. I agree that we need to resolve the slot and having inactives towards game-end can be problematic, but it's still relatively early. There's no reason to assume long term that the slot will remain empty.

My scum reads converging on it as an option suggests that we have the possibility of double scum lynch in our options range here.

But possibly W/W with sloonei. Assuming the worst, I know.

To Jack's earlier point, I noted very early that I think the best option is to go for the unpaired wolves, here Nutella and Juliets.

Which requires me to say something to MPs point about the possibility of neither of them being scum: well that would suck, wouldn't it? It's not that I distinctly haven't considered that possibility, but the spaces without one of them being scum are rather limited and we'd immediately be forced to consider more unlikely combinations. If we lynch both we get over the "this'll be an easy game" mentality that can sink so many towns sooner rather than later.

Suggesting the Juliets lynch with nutella, as I said earlier.

I think we have to reconsider Jack.

We'd have to believe that the baddies would give up a role steal (role check) for a dubious clearance plan. They couldn't predict MR's death.

ops forgot mechanics
curses

MiNdSeT tElL

Calling it now Jules and LC.
I think this is also one of my previous calls so ya know some sort of stability here.

Would Tony kill off a potential mislynch (LC) on N2? A good look, one of about 4 in this ISO.
Would Tony shade Jules? 'Not W/W with Jules' look

Hey Tony, what are your reads right now?

I’m willing to townclear Jack. I think I’ll have an opportunity to examine Wilgy today — I don’t think he should be cleared long term for his derp, but it’s worth something.
Nanook and Hyena are the typical townreads. I’m less sure on both of them. I thought Hyena was scum early, but they’ve contributed a fair amount. Nanook probably sorts himself pretty quickly— there are obvious places to start for any sort of analysis. Your slot is vague and I haven’t played with you before (unless you count your first day), so I’m basically now trying to get ahold of your day 1 meta. That leaves Speed and Juliets. I cannot read Juliets. Nutella was pretty certain she was scum, but that softened towards the end and there’s always a certain town energy here to not lynch the rival train from the day before. Speed is left— I don’t think he’s playing like he had previous times I’ve seen him as scum, but he seems to me both the most likely to be scum and the most likely to provide information in his defense.
This is my participation for today, but Ive constructed a light schedule for myself tomorrow so I should be around more.

This starts with only Jack towncleared and then ends with a POE of just me and I'm not sure I understand that.

-----------------------------------------------------------

There are other posts in the ISO but few of them stood out to me as negative or definitely positive. They were either filler or prodding questions or the like, which can be town or scum.
Tony is, in my estimation, a good candidate for lynch. There aren't any 'GOTCHA's in here on either side. A couple solid town pings, about 2-3 times as many solid negative pings. I'd love to hear opinions, and I'd love tony to clear up a few things.

Is it possible MP had given up on him and wanted to distance as much as possible? If MP could towncore himself into being that last slot of the POE, in MYLO, he might have had a chance.



Tony is one of the few who townread Wilgy, and is also less present than a lot of other people. AND he was in private chat with Wilgy, so wilgy had special insight to him. I sort of feel like that would make him more likely to kill wilgy last night.

(my gut still says it's nanook though.)

[speedchuck]

Juliets, Nanook, and Tony are still my whole POE.

[speedchuck]

I think I most suspect Speed at this point?

Which is weird cause I’d have called him my top townread a few days ago.

All I have is town content and a middle-of-the-wagon vote/push on MR D1, to which I recruited Hyena.

At this point in the game that's not enough.

[juliets]

That's an interesting thought on the Wilgy kill [mention]speedchuck[/mention]. I haven't been able to see any motivation for that kill.

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention] it would be really helpful for you to respond to speed's ISO of you. Is there a reason you haven't responded to it already?

[juliets]

Someone remind me why we town cleared DDL. I can't remember the reason.

[speedchuck]

Someone remind me why we town cleared DDL. I can't remember the reason.

D1 radish push looked really good. He also initiated the MP switch for the DDL/Nanook crew yesterday, as I understand it.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hmmm good eye Nanook. That drop-off of Tony is significant. I can't remember personally if MP normally shades his partners - It's been years since he played here. I'll give that high weighting when I reconsider Tony today.

I completely get how your top townread can become a scum read over a few days. Was there anything you can point to that's caused him to drop or is it gut?

It’s more like my top suspects yesterday (you, Tony, Wilgy, MP) either died or look a lot more townie.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Someone remind me why we town cleared DDL. I can't remember the reason.

D1 radish push looked really good. He also initiated the MP switch for the DDL/Nanook crew yesterday, as I understand it.

I suggested we changed away from Wilgy, then went offline.

When I came back, Nanook had switched to MP and was trying to convince me to do the same.

[speedchuck]

Someone remind me why we town cleared DDL. I can't remember the reason.

D1 radish push looked really good. He also initiated the MP switch for the DDL/Nanook crew yesterday, as I understand it.

I suggested we changed away from Wilgy, then went offline.

When I came back, Nanook had switched to MP and was trying to convince me to do the same.

Did you suggest changing to a specific person?

[juliets]

Someone remind me why we town cleared DDL. I can't remember the reason.

D1 radish push looked really good. He also initiated the MP switch for the DDL/Nanook crew yesterday, as I understand it.

On the last item, DDL said this morning that Nanook initiated the change to MP. He (DDL) didn't come back into the thread until there were only about 3 minutes left and agreed with Nanook to change to MP. I'll check out his Radish push on Day 1. I thought there was something else though that was more definitive.

linki but I'm posting anyway.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I also don't like that juliets is trying to get the entire town to claim.

At this point, any claim from someone not in danger of being lynched benefits the mafia.

[speedchuck]

Well that's not what I thought happened with DDL and Nanook at all.

[juliets]

I also don't like that juliets is trying to get the entire town to claim.

At this point, any claim from someone not in danger of being lynched benefits the mafia.

I am NOT trying to get people to claim their ability. Just their character. I don't see how that benefits the mafia in the least.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Someone remind me why we town cleared DDL. I can't remember the reason.

D1 radish push looked really good. He also initiated the MP switch for the DDL/Nanook crew yesterday, as I understand it.

I suggested we changed away from Wilgy, then went offline.

When I came back, Nanook had switched to MP and was trying to convince me to do the same.

Did you suggest changing to a specific person?

Nope, the idea to lynch MP came from nanook, at least when concering our private chat.

We'll have to reread the thread to see how he came up with that.

[TonyStarkPrime]

That's an interesting thought on the Wilgy kill peedchuck. I haven't been able to see any motivation for that kill.

onyStarkPrime it would be really helpful for you to respond to speed's ISO of you. Is there a reason you haven't responded to it already?

Haven't been really around. I'll go read it.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Oh, the one from yesterday? I did respond to it, I thought. I didn't quote respond because it was long and I was on my phone, but I think I got at the major points. I can do something more in depth.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’m actually kinda surprised you are tbh, didn’t we win a scum game together by all sussing each other? The wire maybe? It’s pretty much the same logic.

It’s not from a general rule standpoint. It’s also from a mindset standpoint. MP was in good spirits and also not really hammering Tony or Juliets or Wilgy in particular.

It feels in particular like the mindset of a wolf who knew we were headed for a town lynch and that either his partner was safe or he was thinking he’d be able to manipulate the POE on later days to make sure wolves were out of it. I think he pulls out some stuff to try to make himself look antialigned with Tony or Juliets if they’re his teammate or he works harder to expand the poe or shift them out of it.

Just being like “I’m fine with this” as we lynch his partner Tony or his partner Juliets is likely to go tomorrow does not seem like a winning strategy. We know MP is capable of Herculean effort. All he did was try to add DDL to the POE (citation needed).

Like I also don’t think wolf Juliets goes with the “but why am I scum” defense while letting me control our vote and privately expressing concern that Tony is town if she’s teamed with MP. That’s not opening the POE. That’s not taking her or her partner out of it. That’s shrinking it.

[speedchuck]

Actually DDL and Nanook were together the only vote on MP.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I also don't like that juliets is trying to get the entire town to claim.

At this point, any claim from someone not in danger of being lynched benefits the mafia.

I am NOT trying to get people to claim their ability. Just their character. I don't see how that benefits the mafia in the least.

If the flavor is related to the role, it can be a hint.

And if it's not related to the role at all, then why are we claiming again?

At best, nothing happens. At worst, it helps mafia decide who to kill.

[speedchuck]

Oh, the one from yesterday? I did respond to it, I thought. I didn't quote respond because it was long and I was on my phone, but I think I got at the major points. I can do something more in depth.

There were some questions I had in it regarding what you meant at some points. If you answered those and I missed it, I'd love to be pointed there.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I’d switch to MP, lemme see if DDL is around/willing to

This is when nanook changed. I was in the middle of a family conversation at this time.

[speedchuck]

Actually DDL and Nanook were together the only vote on MP.

No wait Jack was controlling the other.

I did not like yesterday's gimmick.

[juliets]

Ok I do see the DDL push of MR on Day 1. Seems like so long ago.

[juliets]

I also don't like that juliets is trying to get the entire town to claim.

At this point, any claim from someone not in danger of being lynched benefits the mafia.

I am NOT trying to get people to claim their ability. Just their character. I don't see how that benefits the mafia in the least.

If the flavor is related to the role, it can be a hint.

And if it's not related to the role at all, then why are we claiming again?

At best, nothing happens. At worst, it helps mafia decide who to kill.

I'd have to look back at everyones role and ability but my ability is not related to my role at all. The reason for getting people to claim is the mafia roles seem distinctively different from the civ roles, so the mafia has to either lie or maybe has a safe claim. I'm all for pushing the mafia to lie if possible. People can get caught in lies.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’m actually kinda surprised you are tbh, didn’t we win a scum game together by all sussing each other? The wire maybe? It’s pretty much the same logic.

It’s not from a general rule standpoint. It’s also from a mindset standpoint. MP was in good spirits and also not really hammering Tony or Juliets or Wilgy in particular.

It feels in particular like the mindset of a wolf who knew we were headed for a town lynch and that either his partner was safe or he was thinking he’d be able to manipulate the POE on later days to make sure wolves were out of it. I think he pulls out some stuff to try to make himself look antialigned with Tony or Juliets if they’re his teammate or he works harder to expand the poe or shift them out of it.

Just being like “I’m fine with this” as we lynch his partner Tony or his partner Juliets is likely to go tomorrow does not seem like a winning strategy. We know MP is capable of Herculean effort. All he did was try to add DDL to the POE (citation needed).

Like I also don’t think wolf Juliets goes with the “but why am I scum” defense while letting me control our vote and privately expressing concern that Tony is town if she’s teamed with MP. That’s not opening the POE. That’s not taking her or her partner out of it. That’s shrinking it.

I’ve done the “agendaless wolf” play that I’m saying I don’t think Juliets is making.

It has resulted in me being POED out. It has resulted in very close games where I won because players were modkilled, giving me the extra town death I wasn’t going to get via mislynches.

And Juliets, amazing as her tone is, does not tend to passionately fight tooth and nail to prevent her own scum lynch the way I do. We both live our scum games on the bubble but she uses purity to be second or third priority and her own reads and opinions to not vote her partner whereas I lead mislynches and argue strongly that I’ve done townie things.

That is, I can live in a 4 player POE that contains both wolves, knowing I have a decent chance to force myself out of it or force someone into it or force a particular lynch order. Juliets cannot. She needs (and finds) a 5 player POE with 2 wolves in it or a 4 player POE with 1 wolf in it. She was not acting like wolf Juliets that needed to question a clear on a player outside the POE or just not see why MP could be a wolf and refuse to vote there.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Spoiler: show

TONY STARK BUILT THIS ISO IN A CAVE!

My character is so fun to roleplay as that I don’t know how. LC can die but if the point of the game is complete our personal vendettas against LC maybe we’re going down the wrong path

Hmm, let’s spread the love
Vote
DDL

The more I think about it the more I don't like these posts. The attitudes are wrong.

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

Your attitudes are wrong

The exchange with MR that got Tony some town cred. I don't think it's bad, bot not worthy of cred either. This MR vote lacks substance, has no case, and should NEVER have remained till the end of the day. Textbook distancing, because nobody is going to follow up on it.

I think it's more tonal impurity that I see in Tony so far than anything concerning his attitudes toward the game.

Although upon a second read I do agree that 'spreading the love' is an odd attitude. It seems like an easy way to get a vote down and spread the votes into something anti-town more than spreading it into something pro-town if you catch my drift.

I don’t catch your drift. Why is it anti-town to have my vote on someone who I think is suspicious? what of that idea is anti-town

He never said he thought DDL was suspicious. I asked, even, and... well we'll get to that later.

What if Tony and MR are both scum?

Funny, I was thinking MR and you

Distancing.

it’s 112 and tony it was right in front of us this whole time

lol I meant between you and MR

'lol' tell get em

Deflection and distancing when 112 guessed on a relationship between Tony and MR.

Nanook, Tony, nutella, based on your own role card, what alignment do you think Alex Jones would have?

town

Here's the town cred everyone is talking about.
And.
Yeah, this is a ballsy scum play if it is one. I mean, scum might have a towny-looking role as reference, but still I'd grant some good points to this one. Maybe. For reasons that others have discussed.

Now it's time for you people to explain why everyone and their dog is townreading Radishes because I don't see it.

Alternatively, let's lynch him.

In general I'm town reading DDL for going against quo on the page, but the phrasing seems ___stilted___ and repetitive -- forced in a sense (the same "I don't see it" idea). I'm not one of those micro-post analysts but it throws me off.

Shading DDL's vote while distancing himself from directly talking about radishes... or scumreading DDL. Subtle discouragement.

Tony saying he thought Alex Jones would be town read as a not-scum thing to say imo, especially since it came after me and nutella said the opposite

I agree.

I agree as well.

I can't speak to this argument cause obvious bias but the uniform agreement bugs me

I don't know whether I like this or not. It's almost try-too-hard, like Tony is showing how he can suspect people for propping him up too well. It also gives more publicity to his best reason for being townread.
Or it's genuine, and a good look. You be the judge.

MR sitting on Tony the whole round looks bad on him, like he can't pick anyone else who warrants a vote on them.

is this a serious take

(This post might not be in the right place. I messed up my copy-pasta. It's close, though.)
Needless to say I do NOT like this response. Yes it's serious. Bloody good take, too.

I'll vote for Sig over Nanook. Weird to vote for Sig on the case "he hasn't said anything crazy yet" and I know that's the kind of reputation that's really annoying to shake, but there's nothing else to be done.

Completely ignoring MR, which seems to be a theme in the last few posts that sorta concerned MR or voting.

@TonyStarkPrime talk to me about Speedchuck. You have a vote on them right now.

He's felt disengenuous to me

This is probably my least favorite Tony post just reading the ISO real fast. Can you expand on this, Tony?

I don't remember what the circumstances were. I can go back and check if you want.

Here is the reasons:

I don’t catch your drift. Why is it anti-town to have my vote on someone who I think is suspicious? what of that idea is anti-town

why is ddl suspicious to you he ain't done nothin

a post like this when two posts later he says that Juliets is scum for asking about a day 1 vote for instance

Asking why he found DDL suspicious (a question he never answered) is disingenous? Because I had a scumread on someone else that I explained (even if it wasn't strong)? What!?

almost switched to MR for the fun of it but by golly is that a terrible plan

This is almost too on-the-nose for me to believe it came from scum. It's hilarious if Tony is scum, and gives me an even bigger estimation of the man's cajones.

-
There is no reaction to the flip.
-

I think your argument can be boiled down to “Option 2 seems useless but at least pro-town” which is probably wrong on at least one side

I mean, suppose Donald Trump is mafia. Hard to say forcing someone to do a Donald Trump impression isn't protown.

It's just the implication that if the mafia was like Trump, VInce McMahon, Kelly Loeffler, etc, that option would be too good so things aren't that easy.

Idk. There should be some sort of theme to the scum team, I'd imagine.

that's not the scum team

I don't know if this was supposed to mean that Tony was one of these roles and is town, but... well yeah, I don't know. I should probably tag each WTF moment I have in this ISO for Tony to answer.

I think your argument can be boiled down to “Option 2 seems useless but at least pro-town” which is probably wrong on at least one side

I mean, suppose Donald Trump is mafia. Hard to say forcing someone to do a Donald Trump impression isn't protown.

It's just the implication that if the mafia was like Trump, VInce McMahon, Kelly Loeffler, etc, that option would be too good so things aren't that easy.

Idk. There should be some sort of theme to the scum team, I'd imagine.

I don't think we should assume affiliations are tied to roleplaying in any way. That's a bad way to run an open set-up game.

This is probably wrong too

Incorrect. Which is maybe a good look? Either that or Tony's being wrong on purpose after so much right-ness about the setup.

I’m town. Process of elimination gives you my character and my power follows swiftly. I don’t think I’ll be around much in the following day phase, so please don’t try to lynch me.

POE does what now? I have no idea how we're supposed to guess TSP's character and/or power here. This post needs explained.

I always suspect Juliets. I’m right sometimes.
I don’t think it’s MP come at me Hyena.

Since Juliets is another main suspect I thought I'd toss this up here. A couple posts from now he suggests lynching her. Possibly an indicator of 'not W/W'.

I don't like the Sloonei secret lynch it seems wrong. I agree that we need to resolve the slot and having inactives towards game-end can be problematic, but it's still relatively early. There's no reason to assume long term that the slot will remain empty.

My scum reads converging on it as an option suggests that we have the possibility of double scum lynch in our options range here.

But possibly W/W with sloonei. Assuming the worst, I know.

To Jack's earlier point, I noted very early that I think the best option is to go for the unpaired wolves, here Nutella and Juliets.

Which requires me to say something to MPs point about the possibility of neither of them being scum: well that would suck, wouldn't it? It's not that I distinctly haven't considered that possibility, but the spaces without one of them being scum are rather limited and we'd immediately be forced to consider more unlikely combinations. If we lynch both we get over the "this'll be an easy game" mentality that can sink so many towns sooner rather than later.

Suggesting the Juliets lynch with nutella, as I said earlier.

I think we have to reconsider Jack.

We'd have to believe that the baddies would give up a role steal (role check) for a dubious clearance plan. They couldn't predict MR's death.

ops forgot mechanics
curses

MiNdSeT tElL

Calling it now Jules and LC.
I think this is also one of my previous calls so ya know some sort of stability here.

Would Tony kill off a potential mislynch (LC) on N2? A good look, one of about 4 in this ISO.
Would Tony shade Jules? 'Not W/W with Jules' look

Hey Tony, what are your reads right now?

I’m willing to townclear Jack. I think I’ll have an opportunity to examine Wilgy today — I don’t think he should be cleared long term for his derp, but it’s worth something.
Nanook and Hyena are the typical townreads. I’m less sure on both of them. I thought Hyena was scum early, but they’ve contributed a fair amount. Nanook probably sorts himself pretty quickly— there are obvious places to start for any sort of analysis. Your slot is vague and I haven’t played with you before (unless you count your first day), so I’m basically now trying to get ahold of your day 1 meta. That leaves Speed and Juliets. I cannot read Juliets. Nutella was pretty certain she was scum, but that softened towards the end and there’s always a certain town energy here to not lynch the rival train from the day before. Speed is left— I don’t think he’s playing like he had previous times I’ve seen him as scum, but he seems to me both the most likely to be scum and the most likely to provide information in his defense.
This is my participation for today, but Ive constructed a light schedule for myself tomorrow so I should be around more.

This starts with only Jack towncleared and then ends with a POE of just me and I'm not sure I understand that.

-----------------------------------------------------------

There are other posts in the ISO but few of them stood out to me as negative or definitely positive. They were either filler or prodding questions or the like, which can be town or scum.
Tony is, in my estimation, a good candidate for lynch. There aren't any 'GOTCHA's in here on either side. A couple solid town pings, about 2-3 times as many solid negative pings. I'd love to hear opinions, and I'd love tony to clear up a few things.

1) I responded to the Jack post in a manner that narrows down my character to one of three people. I had talked about my character in a manner that excluded two, leaving Vince. Given I'm Vince and two WWE themed night polls, I'd be willing to make a leap there. That's moot now, I full claimed.
2) I mean I don't see anything else I can really respond to here. As to the last post quoted, I think a POE of just you is understandable but not my intention -- I meant to imply that the POE was wide open but you were the only player I could justify voting for. Hyena took the "I find Hyena to be pretty scummy" thing to mean that I thought they were town so you didn't interpret this the worst.
3) You point out Juliets/Nutella. I stand by that. I think you're pointing it out to suggest not w/w with Nutella which is now also moot.
4) As to our day 1 spat, I stand by that as well. You voiced a mild scum read on Juliets, I thought it was indicative maybe of a scum mind set and voiced a mild scum read on you. I think your phrasing of "here are the reasons" and then only quoting one reason is a little disingenuous; I think I mentioned other things that threw me off. Maybe I didn't.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Juliets lacks any votes, mechanics, allegiances or anti-alignments that separate her as town. All she has is a. her claim (do scum have fakeclaims, idk) and b. the fact that she's felt pretty towny all game. She's been in that second-to-lynch position, but keeps scraping by.

Everyone else in the game has more than she does separating them from the scumteam.

Thanks for saving me the words.

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine

Yeah and I know you are not voting here but I feel juliets' "not telling Jack to move away from MP" looks less good than Nanook tagging me to make me change to MP and then later convincing me to do it when I showed up 3 minutes before the deadline.

Let me be devil’s advocate.

If Juliets is a wolf with MP, her giving up her vote and convincing me to vote away from Tony means there is a 2/3rds chance I vote a wolf instead. It doesn’t take her out of anyone’s POE except maybe mine.

If Nanook is a wolf with MP, the important thing is that he’s not in the POE and he remains not in the POE. A hard bus helps a lot with that.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I’m actually kinda surprised you are tbh, didn’t we win a scum game together by all sussing each other? The wire maybe? It’s pretty much the same logic.

It’s not from a general rule standpoint. It’s also from a mindset standpoint. MP was in good spirits and also not really hammering Tony or Juliets or Wilgy in particular.

It feels in particular like the mindset of a wolf who knew we were headed for a town lynch and that either his partner was safe or he was thinking he’d be able to manipulate the POE on later days to make sure wolves were out of it. I think he pulls out some stuff to try to make himself look antialigned with Tony or Juliets if they’re his teammate or he works harder to expand the poe or shift them out of it.

Just being like “I’m fine with this” as we lynch his partner Tony or his partner Juliets is likely to go tomorrow does not seem like a winning strategy. We know MP is capable of Herculean effort. All he did was try to add DDL to the POE (citation needed).

Like I also don’t think wolf Juliets goes with the “but why am I scum” defense while letting me control our vote and privately expressing concern that Tony is town if she’s teamed with MP. That’s not opening the POE. That’s not taking her or her partner out of it. That’s shrinking it.

I’ve done the “agendaless wolf” play that I’m saying I don’t think Juliets is making.

It has resulted in me being POED out. It has resulted in very close games where I won because players were modkilled, giving me the extra town death I wasn’t going to get via mislynches.

And Juliets, amazing as her tone is, does not tend to passionately fight tooth and nail to prevent her own scum lynch the way I do. We both live our scum games on the bubble but she uses purity to be second or third priority and her own reads and opinions to not vote her partner whereas I lead mislynches and argue strongly that I’ve done townie things.

That is, I can live in a 4 player POE that contains both wolves, knowing I have a decent chance to force myself out of it or force someone into it or force a particular lynch order. Juliets cannot. She needs (and finds) a 5 player POE with 2 wolves in it or a 4 player POE with 1 wolf in it. She was not acting like wolf Juliets that needed to question a clear on a player outside the POE or just not see why MP could be a wolf and refuse to vote there.

drifty wolves are whimper not bang folks.
Maybe Juliets was just voicing a possible clear on me to try to get a town read from you when I flipped? It's weird. Voicing a solid in thread defense of a player who should inevitably be lynched I think generally works well if that player flips scum, but we've established from discussion today that that is what we would expect MP to have done if I were scum, so maybe it doesn't work so well.

[speedchuck]

drifty wolves are whimper not bang folks.
Maybe Juliets was just voicing a possible clear on me to try to get a town read from you when I flipped? It's weird. Voicing a solid in thread defense of a player who should inevitably be lynched I think generally works well if that player flips scum, but we've established from discussion today that that is what we would expect MP to have done if I were scum, so maybe it doesn't work so well.

This whole game is WIFOM now.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Juliets lacks any votes, mechanics, allegiances or anti-alignments that separate her as town. All she has is a. her claim (do scum have fakeclaims, idk) and b. the fact that she's felt pretty towny all game. She's been in that second-to-lynch position, but keeps scraping by.

Everyone else in the game has more than she does separating them from the scumteam.

Thanks for saving me the words.

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine

Yeah and I know you are not voting here but I feel juliets' "not telling Jack to move away from MP" looks less good than Nanook tagging me to make me change to MP and then later convincing me to do it when I showed up 3 minutes before the deadline.

Let me be devil’s advocate.

If Juliets is a wolf with MP, her giving up her vote and convincing me to vote away from Tony means there is a 2/3rds chance I vote a wolf instead. It doesn’t take her out of anyone’s POE except maybe mine.

If Nanook is a wolf with MP, the important thing is that he’s not in the POE and he remains not in the POE. A hard bus helps a lot with that.

Alternatively, if Juliets is a wolf with a narrowing POE, that kind of gambit can play insanely well if/when MP is lynched. Especially if it goes TSP day 3 and then Juliets can lead a lynch on MP day 4. We have to assume to some extent that scum doesn't ever handle CFDs optimally.

[TonyStarkPrime]

drifty wolves are whimper not bang folks.
Maybe Juliets was just voicing a possible clear on me to try to get a town read from you when I flipped? It's weird. Voicing a solid in thread defense of a player who should inevitably be lynched I think generally works well if that player flips scum, but we've established from discussion today that that is what we would expect MP to have done if I were scum, so maybe it doesn't work so well.

This whole game is WIFOM now.

I think the next two days are just gathering information for a dramatic day 6 showdown.

[TonyStarkPrime]

CFDs suck. This is kinda why. It turns the game into a chaos orb and also, I think, takes away some amount of the fairness of voting. It's something that exploits inefficient play.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Obviously I'm alive, so I'm not going to complain about it too much.
I'm just still upset over that one game.

[juliets]

Obviously I'm alive, so I'm not going to complain about it too much.
I'm just still upset over that one game.

What game?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Obviously I'm alive, so I'm not going to complain about it too much.
I'm just still upset over that one game.

What game?

I don't remember the theme. g-man hosted and day 1 four townies randomly lynched my scum teammate while they were the only players around and nothing could be done about it. All four of them basically became lockcleared mechanically. It was miserable. Sloonei had a killer read on me at endgame though, so in some sense it was worth it.