Additional concerns with Fayt
One longstanding trend I have observed in these games is that when I fall under
heavy suspicion for whatever reason, the mafia team is much more likely to
defend me. It is the most basic example of TMI, and it's easy to understand why they do this. Given the extreme effort that I am almost guaranteed to give in any game, my mislynch is by default a considerable civilian loss. This isn't some boastful shit about me being good or whatever, so please block that irritation from your mind if it's there and consider what I am saying. Even if I am total garbage, I still give a huge effort -- that's important.
If I get lynched wrongly, the people who were responsible for that are going to have a
lot to answer for. Any mafia team knows that shit. It's obvious. So they often stay the hell away from it. Let me show you just a few examples that come to mind immediately from previous games:
Easter Mafia
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 5:48 pm
If I have to I will probably vote for whoever I can to stop JJJ from getting lynched because I like his contributions and if he's town it would be a mclargehuge mistake.
Huge positive-outlook ISO by ColinIsCool
Scotty wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 10:27 am
That jjj got 3 votes so easily in the first half of day 1 and still is the leading Potential Rabbit (tm) leads me to believe that it’s
too easy.
Especially nova’s vote.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Quin and jjj just got into a semantics despute. Nova’s vote is a thumb getting caught in a drawer
Scotty wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 6:21 pm
Someone else get on Floyd please. JJJ should not be lynched day 1
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue May 22, 2018 1:56 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 7:29 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 21, 2018 2:04 am
Wolbre and Jay teammates
Agreed. Marmot's teammates identified.
I can’t get this quote from marmot’s entrance out of my head. I strongly feel like jjj is town this game, so I don’t think Marmot called out his scummates here. But I currently suspect wolbre and wouldn’t be surprised if Marmot threw in one of his teammates in this too. Marmot votes choutas end of day, wolbre voted early before vhoutas even had votes. Coming in from different angles to form an isosceles triangle. I can see it
Scotty wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 1:31 am
What a fucking end of day to miss! Good job boyos and thank god you were all right. JJJ coming in hot with that catch at the end.
There is no way in hell that JJJ is bad after that EoD. Surprisingly, Dys looked the worst after I left and in hindsight, next to Quin. I’ll take a detailed look at Colin interactions tomorrow. Everything he’s said in the past day is complete WIFOM and shouldn’t be taken at face value, or even below the belt value, but before he was the main lynch candidate should be entirely enlightening.
So I guess what I’m saying is: let’s lynch marmot tomorrow k
In this game, both ColinIsCool and Scotty were mafia. I was a civilian and drawing heavy suspicion. They white knighted me. There are numerous more examples of this in that game; I only shared a subset.
Fire Emblem
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:46 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:41 pm
The thing I have against Jay is that he reminds me of Mountain Jay, and not in regards to activity. There is something about Jay that is "unpleasant", if I have to describe it.
Like Jay is usually this gentleman that is so easy to deal with. I remember my first game in this site where I would accuse him and people he was civ reading, for silly reasons, and he would use his time to argue with me and listen to my points and constantly reanalyse his own suspicions.
Here, he is more sttuborn. Though I haven't argued with him myself, you can see from the way he is arguing with Epi and White and others that he is not confortable in his arguing. He is resistant to disagreement, and unwilling to let go of his suspicions. The fact he is going after low hanging fruits isn't something I'm very concerned with, but the fact he is so adamant at it when such cases are very weak in nature does. He is setting for easy solutions, and a good scumhunter doesn't accept easy solutions, even if they are willing to go with them from time to time. Like, it's one thing to vote for lapluie and Dr. White, it's another to voice vehement disagreement when people suggest him to abandon them for more juicy cases.
I'm treading dangerous ground here because I've notice Jay is really fatigued in this game, and this is generally non-alignment indicative. He made a post suggesting he shouldn't signed up or been so active, and I support him for that. But I'm trying to figure out if there is an alignment influence in that. Maybe civ Jay would feel less pressure and would be less sttubborn, even if he was pressured for time or mafia fatigued.
So Jay I'm really sorry if you are a civ and I'm being unfair to you, but I need to hunt. 
I at the very least disagree with the last sentence, knowing Jay I think he certainly feels a lot of pressure as a civ particularly to perform his supertown persona. Not that he doesn't definitely also feel pressure when bad but I think he handles it differently. I see your trepidation though in that I can't really tell what his scumhunting strategy has been so it may be a façade.
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:59 pm
...see then he goes and makes a completely believable jaypost like that. maybe I'm a sucker for his analytical methods and maybe I'm falling for his deceit but he just... makes sense.
also I don't think I agree with you DDL about the Mountains comparison, he's different here
Quin wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:01 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:41 pm
Dr. White wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:35 pm
That's complete and utter bullshit JJJ and you know it. You are clearly being super daft at the original quote,
which you have been called out for by others.
Saying the interaction between you two is "interesting" is very clear. It was very sus that you would so strongly town read someone THAT EARLY in D1, simply because he gave his own reads that weren't apart of the major town babble. You keep conflating this as if bob had 100 post in Day 1, and 36 hours had passed or something. It was extremely early and on questionable grounds that you gave him such a strong read.
This however does not force the conclusion that both or either of you are scum, which you keep trying to use as a means to sus me for not directly stating such. I am simply making my take on an interaction known. Yes you could be scum buddies, or you could be using him for town cred. I don't know yet, it is something to build upon in later interactions between you two and others in the thread. To quote your system "you lost a point there". Now what you're doing is like someone saying "what do you mean by that JJJ? Why don't you just come out and say I'm scum!".
The fact that you've latched on to me so strongly from this, keep questioning my blatant as hell meaning with the quote, and now are trying to push this narrative that I'm ducking you, is very, very suspect, and I honestly don't believe you are this daft.
What is this and why should I give a shit?
No it fucking isn't. 
Horseshit. colonialbob made posts and I made a read. You know what you did in response? Made a read. You made a read that you are presently calling "very sus". That's strong language. How can you have such a strong read so early? 
I "keep trying to use it as a means" so hard that I said it one time. Fake.
We could be scumbuddies. I could be buddying a civilian for credit. I can't be town myself. Garbage.
There is nothing blatant about the meaning of "interesting" in a "read" being made in a Mafia game.
You're freaking the fuck out and spewing trash. Die.
This gave me flashbacks to when 3J and I went head to head in Red vs Blue...both times. This ass is town.
Quin wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:52 pm
I'm wary of Epi. I don't like this argument for scum 3J.
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:34 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:32 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:28 am
JJJ's pets so far:
Quin
Iron Dwarf
Dr. White
lapluie
Somebody tell me he isn't going for easy, early lynches.
I would agree at least that Iron_Dwarf and lapluie are "easy". I don't care. Easy and civilian aren't synonymous. Sometimes mafia members are easy to lynch.
Your reasons for all of them are lazy though. Quin not engaging anyone "substantively?" lapluie not "hitting the ground running here like she did in MK?"
Lazy work. I do not believe you are a civilian, sir.
1. Both of these arguments are worth making. In my case it's incorrect, but if I'm not engaging anyone substantively, that's a decent contrast to how I usually try to be as a player. lapluie is the same. She had 553 posts in MK despite it being her first game. She was in the top half of posters in Buffy. She's barely pushing 30 here. If you're not going to immediately call it suspicious, you absolutely have to look at it as substantial.
2. 3J said this. Lazy cases do not guarantee a civilian lynch.
Epignosis, what makes the cases 3J has put forward lazy, and why does that make him bad? Do you believe that he is avoiding progressive (as opposed to lazy) reads?
Quin and nutella were both mafia. Defended me, softly or overtly.
Persona 5
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:40 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:21 pm
Ok, so I narrowed it down to Jack and TSP. Never did the isos. Honestly just too lazy. I'm not entirely sure on those 2 but I feel confident in my reads.
I want to talk about Jay for a second. Like Mac pointed out, he has gone after several different ppl and has never really stuck to them for long(he's sticking to Epi now tho, I guess). The lack of coordination in his play is off-putting for me. Add his iso on Mac which I honestly think was garbage. Nearly half of it was him saying k or I guess. I'm like wtf? What in Jesus name is the point of those one-word replies?
Combine with that iso, and his overall playstyle appears as tryhard to me. Trying so hard to contribute and appear productivity. I don't like it.
Reading this makes me come to the conclusion that JJJ is probably town
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:14 pm
I don't think this is a particularly logical option I'm probably going to take it back next time I look at the thread.
Could JJJ be teamed with:
Creature? Sure but Creature is town
Drago? No
Epi? Seems actually likely
Jack? No
LongCon? Sure
Mac? that'd be insane but not completely unexpected
Nutella? No
Rej? probably not
Sprityo? Sure but Sprityo is town
The problem here is that JJJ cannot be a teammate of any of my top scum reads.
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:24 am
Creature- No clear opinion.
Dragomir- I stand by my take. Came out throwing like Drew Brees.
Jack- I'm not rereading your 77 posts. Feeling is positive though.
JJJ- Unless he goofs, I don't lynch him Day 1. He hasn't goofed (been a donkey, maybe, but not goofed). I'd have to be convinced to vote there, and I don't see that happening.
Long Con- Got lost in concessions.
MacDougall- I look for a confident "Epi-JJJ-LC is scum got em" post early on. True to fashion, he made one. This time he included the fucking host. I noted it, but left it alone to see what other people would say about it. "Oh golly gee Mac is so town for that." Not in my stadium. Smells like a Minnesota Viking fan's fart. Would lynch.
nutella- I can't have a confident opinion of her or it's a red flag.
Rej- Will have to revisit.
sprityo- Will have to revisit.
TonyStarkPrime- Will have to revisit.
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:15 pm
Mac = Good.
JJJ = Good.
Dragomir = Good.
I'm going to enter Day 2 (assuming I do) with that.
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:51 pm
JJJ, you are a civilian because you are like me when you are bad. You value efficiency. I don't believe you punched Tony's Greyhound ticket Day 1 like that if you are aligned with him.
TSP and Epignosis were mafia. They stood in my corner.
~~~
Now I want to clarify something before I proceed so that there cannot be any bullshit misconstruals of my point. This does not imply that the players I have cited here called me a civilian in every single post. What is most important though is that when push came to shove and I was taking a bunch of heat -- they stood in my corner. This happens
a lot.
So why do I care? Let's move foward to:
~~~
Dogs vs. Cats
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:20 am
Because not Dragomir. Dragomir's current play feels scummy, but doesn't make much sense as scumplay on further reflection.
I buy Dragomir's response to pressure better than Rej's. Rej has been on edge since the first time he was prodded.
Rej wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:07 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:35 am
@Rej what is your absolute favorite thing ever about sprityo in this here game thread?
Gimme a break I cant ISO posts on mobile, can I?
Felt like a disproportionate reaction, hardly worth noting at the time. But it's escalated to the point that he has a vote on you, and that read doesn't seem genuine. He's banking all of his analysis on the one Persona game, which is fallacious as heck. "JJJ isn't doing things exactly like he did in P5" is not a case, it's a justification.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:43 am
Most of the complaints I've seen hurled at JJJ in this game can be defended as 'it's D1 JJJ trying to spur reactions and get pressure on everyone at once.' Some of Epi's post could be seen like that.
Some of it can't.
Looking for JJJ's response as I'm like 6 pages behind.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:03 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:47 pm
Facts:
JJJ gave Rej a bunch of shit. Did not vote there.
JJJ voted LC, whom he called good that same Day.
What else am I supposed to do with this?
JJJ also ungave Rej shit?
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:27 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:20 amHe's banking all of his analysis on the one Persona game, which is fallacious as heck. "JJJ isn't doing things exactly like he did in P5" is not a case, it's a justification.
I agree that it's fallacious, though that's something I am thinking about. Rej has only played one game with me, and it was that one. So it makes some sense that he'd be inclined to assess me on that basis.
Here he takes a Rej read I considered disingeneous and thought to give some validity to it. It's not all black and white. Never is. But I don't know if this makes JJJ look better or worse, given the subject. Just a little more consistent.
I'd look up other games where Jay ended up on a random wagon instead of the one he'd been dogging most of the day, but once again, meta is crap.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:53 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:48 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:46 am
This whole nightkill analysis based on character, devotion to the site and out-of-game closeness to TH is kinda angleshooty.
I know I can't condemn it, as I got caught up in it and the Mac/JJJ go has changed my perception a great deal, but I thought I'd put that out there.
Water them changes of perception, sonny?
Mac is town.
JJJ is lower on my townlist, and only not at the bottom because I've never actually
seen this kind of angleshooting not be true. It's a scummy practice, town or mafia, but it usually works and is reliable.
It's not about emotional manipulation, as I mentioned in Phenon: Origins. It's a different kind of pragmatic and cold, one that you'd apparently stake honor on.
I welcome examples or corrections. I
feel JJJ as scum, but as Mac called Epi earlier, I'm a sucker for character calls.
speedchuck made a mission this game of defending me when the pressure was on me. In a few cases he would qualify that with generic waffles so that he could get away with whatever eventuality (and probably to make me look worse if he dies), but the overarching theme here is pro-JJJ.
Let's consider Fayt:
Fayt wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:49 pm
Before I go in on this, I do read JJJ and Mac as town. I can't think of a reason why scum would go for a mislynch on me, maybe because it would be "easy." (this isn't the first time I've had the let's gang on the newcomer) but it's a terrible risk once I flip so I'll lay out my thoughts on JJJ's read on me. I would have to dig deeper on the other reads and see what I'm missing. The whole LC wagon still strikes me as odd and felt like someone was trying to save Rej at the end.
I've already talked about Mac's theory of me and Rej's distancing. I failed to see how off of the words "I do lean" vs "I lean" when the topic at hand was responding to JJJ. responses in bold and
this color is mine.
Large post defending me
Fayt wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:04 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:36 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:35 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:34 pm
i guess ill vote drago and see if jay wants to break the tie
That’s a preferable counterwagon.
I’m still content to keep my vote right on you, mister.
fair enough but i doubt you'd risk an avoidable mislynch
i dont think tony is gonna show up anytime soon
don't like this so much. "an avoidable mislynch" implies that you would know JJJ is town despite asking earlier if you should vote JJJ or not. hmm. Unless I'm interpreting this wrong.
The other posts aren't that great either. Do you find Drago scummy? Or is this just a bait for JJJ.
I end up becoming unsure of LC so I did a no vote as a placement before I can look more on my lunch break.
[VOTE:
Sprityo] aubergine
It could actually be said that nobody in this game has defended me
more confidently than Fayt has.
And I opened Day 2 with my vote on them immediately! There's reasonable objectivity, and there's just
too much information. It follows the trend I have painstakingly displayed in this post. Defending me in isolation needn't be a condemnation either, but consider the conditions under which I am being defended and
by whom. I just don't believe that Fayt actually "trusts" me.
That'll open us up very nicely to just finish this thing. There can be no bussing or similar nonsense to confuse matters with speedchuck now.