The Syndicate

If anyone out there just so happens to have a talent for copying powers, you should Baraka the vote away from a civilian.

Mafia, if you want a chance to win: kill me.

This isn’t a threat. This isn’t a resignation.

Do it.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:17 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:12 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:08 pmalso, sorry jay

Oh well.

You severely misinterpreted my comments about what allegiances I would play for in this situation.

i interpreted your comments right, i was just ignoring them. lol.

what would you have done had you not been silenced?

I wouldn't have played for a civilian win at the expense of my own chances. That would be unfair to the mafia as much as to myself, which is what I tried to get across when you asked me those questions. I'd have supported speedchuck. Indeed it'd have been my only option.

As it stands I don't think I can win the game barring surprising good fortune. I feel like I am wasting my time by even making posts.

All things considered it was amusing watching my chance to win plummet from solid to nil without having any place in the dialogue. It was a true train wreck.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:08 pmalso, sorry jay

Oh well.

You severely misinterpreted my comments about what allegiances I would play for in this situation.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:54 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:51 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:25 pm I would say potentially up to three may have been. I'd go as far as to say that at least one being killed is 50/50.

whu

What or who?

Who

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:25 pm I would say potentially up to three may have been. I'd go as far as to say that at least one being killed is 50/50.

whu

If the game doesn't end, I'm playing pro-civilian. Anything else requires unsafe assumptions.

Mac is probably fine. I'm not sure he's even aware of my claim, and that'd probably be a topic of at least some discussion in mafia BTSC.

Dave being mafia would present an interesting quandary for a host. Say it's 3 civilians and 3 mafia, typically a game-over arrangement, but one of the mafia has been inactive all game long and will almost certainly not vote. Should the game truly end?

That's not useful to us really. I've just never thought about it before and it interests my Mafia noodle.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:05 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:20 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:48 am Jimmy is bad because he stopped trying and started phoning it in when he realised nobody was left to oppose his iron will. He just straight up saved Elo and caused a mislynch.

That’s dumb. Say less dumb things.

How is it dumb. That is a horrid defense and exactly what mafia would say.

You haven’t read the game and have no idea what you’re talking about.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:04 am mmmm i actually believe jay was really doing his best for everyone's sake like he said he would when i asked him. he could have easily made a lapluie lynch happen today. instead he's putting his fate up to chance

I definitely didn’t want to be in a situation where there may only be one night kill left in the game.

I thought Made was mafia.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:48 am Jimmy is bad because he stopped trying and started phoning it in when he realised nobody was left to oppose his iron will. He just straight up saved Elo and caused a mislynch.

That’s dumb. Say less dumb things.

It's nothing personal, and I do find it regrettable.

That's unfortunate luck.

Mafia team: since I have inadvertently aided you by calling for a Made lynch (and in early game lynches), maybe you could do me a solid by killing lapluie? There are no known protections. She's never getting lynched anyway just like Long Con wasn't, and there's a chance it'll end the game. I have no way or desire to stop you.

I will be at a Super Bowl party this evening which may or may not last to the deadline.

I suppose Made hasn't posted today. He's been flaky most of the game though.

I believe everyone who would be expected to make posts this phase has made posts.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:07 am mmmmm Marmot didn't know that scorpion was the dead 1-shot vigilante, I also have to assume the mafia expected a vigilante of some kind since one of their roles is a doctor (or whatever the mafia version of doctor is), which would be an almost useless role without a chance for kills targeting the mafia

das troo

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:46 am i think out of Dave, Eloh, Novaselinever, and Made only one of them can be a civilian, two of those 4 being good would require tinfoil on MacDougall or maaaaybe speedchuck?

It's a dilemma. You've even forgotten about Quin (or maybe not?). I'm still feeling three mafia in the group of four you cited:

Dave
Elohcin
Made
novaselinenever

I kind of gave Dave a break because of my previous observation of Marmot's call for a vig shot on him. That means less now that I realize there's no living and public vigilante in the game. It'd require a secret ability to exist, meaning Marmot wasn't inviting anything to happen that he had a real reason to fear.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:39 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:36 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:25 amLynch elo

but wat about Made?!??!?!1111111

Tbh I don't really care

Don't you say that, MacDougall! Don't you ever say that! You do care! YOU CARE!

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:44 am if Eloh is innocent then mafia is probably..... made, nova and.... dave?

How do you feel about Elohcin's most recent responses to criticism?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:25 amLynch elo

but wat about Made?!??!?!1111111

Good then. Plenty of time to talk it over.

Oh, the poll ends tomorrow. I thought this was literally EOD.

We have like 90 seconds.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:12 pm and you're positive about this?

I'm not positive, no. You'll recall though that I have cased Made at least as hard as I have Elohcin, and in the latter's case I see a little more room for error in my judgment. The Simon comparison re: Vocaroo 2 isn't rigid for one thing, as in that game her defenses were based upon his non-usage of the computer in the house. That factor may not apply here, given Simon's time on the computer or the relaxed demands of a text game vs. a voice game. Elohcin is right that she did discuss Marmot more thoroughly than I let on; indeed I was intentionally harsh in my delivery of that accusation to stir her response.

It's also still plausible that they're both mafia. For now I think the Made case is the stronger one.

Perhaps it's a symptom of one being here and the other not, but I do think Elohcin sounds genuine in her attempt to POE a game that is otherwise POEing her.

I think a Made lynch is preferable.

I voted Made.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:52 pmIf I have to agree with you guys on those players, and I am civ, then I have to make my own POE list and try to make out who is bad among them. Does that make sense?

It does make sense. We just have to judge the sincerity.

Would you lynch Made?

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:38 pm There is not a lot of reason to think anyone in particular is mafia. Everyone thinks you and kyle are independent. Everyone says Lap was basically confirmed civ by glorf. I think quin is civ because of his posts and his actions about being gone on the cruise(?). Chuck seems like a helpful civ, imo. That leaves Dave, Mac, Made, and Nova. Those are three low/non-participants and Mac who replaced in right after marmot was lynched. Marmot was a participating baddie and may have been the only participating baddie. Then...we had a kill last night...LC, right? I think that was most recent. So in MY POE, Mac is the last participating baddie and was able to replace in just in time for the next night kill. Tell me if I have my facts wrong.

Made and NVN have both posted recently enough that they could be delivering kills, right?

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:03 pm I think I suspect Wilgy more than anyone...hear me out.

I think Dom was the first player that was in need of replacement. I think I remember Epi saying that at some point in the thread.

Let's say Wilgy, Nova, and Dom are the remaining baddies. Marmot is lynched...the last of the participating baddies. Wilgy suddenly decides..."shit, I gotta start talking in the thread now." Dom is finally replaced (with Mac). Wilgy thinks...I will put a vote on him right away to make people think Mac has entered as a civ and not a my baddie teammate.

Am I crazy, or does that sound likely?

Here is the theory you provided that Mac is mafia. It relied upon DrWilgy also having been mafia and placing a distancing vote on Mac.

Wilgy died and flipped civilian. So what does this do to your perception of Mac?

[mention]Elohcin[/mention], I hope you're still able to discuss matters. I am still listening.

lapluie isn't getting lynched. You should explain why you think MacDougall should be.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:58 pm I understand our suspects are not the same. Can you tell me why you think Lap is civ? Did you read my posts about why I am suspicious of her?

Why don't you care at all about Glorfindel's handling of lapluie?

Another note on Elohcin:

One trend I have noticed as her three-time mafia teammate (Syndicate Mafia, Transistor, Mountains) is that when she is under fire, she tends to believe that the reasons why are faulty or invalid. When Matt went after Elohcin throughout Day 1 of Transistor, Elohcin was very irritated because she felt Matt's reasons were bunk. I thought he was making valid assertions. When dunya went after Elohcin throughout Mountains, Elohcin was very irritated because she felt dunya's reasons were bunk. I thought she was making valid assertions.

Now I'm the one with the reasons that are bunk.

One of Elohcin's primary contributions to Vocaroo 2 was to correctly defend Simon when the POE Monster was closing in on him. Simon had very few posts, but Elohcin saw fit to defend him anyway because of reasons unique to her and her relationship with him.

Simon had very few posts in this game. How did Elohcin treat him this time? The following posts are a few examples, but not all:


Not only was Elohcin easy to convince that Simon warrants a lynch, based on Jack saying essentially nothing beyond "Simon is bad" over and over, she was eager to tack other players (one confirmed civilian and one near-confirmed civilian) to Simon as teammates before he even flipped. These attempts to yoke dunya and lapluie into a Simon team look utterly fake to me.

The case against dunya originally was absolute garbage, and any civilians who contributed to that really ought to feel silly. That was easily the worst lynch of this game so far. With that in mind, attempts to stick her alongside Simon strike me as hogwash. Balderdash. Icky poo. The later effort to stick lapluie alongside Simon is too easy. I don't like this stuff. It looks inauthentic to me, and it's a stark contrast to Vocaroo 2.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:32 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:56 pm Glorfindel on lapluie, Night 4:

Spoiler: show

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:48 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:30 pm I sure did. What is your greatest disagreement?

It frankly astounds me that anyone could read Lapluie’s ISO and deduce from that she is anywhere near Town. You said this of Jack:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:09 pm Jack is red because he continues to push dubious cases with a tone of exaggerated assertiveness while resisting other dubious cases with the same tone, and I question the legitimacy of any civilian mindset he has attempted to portray.

Precisely the same thing could be said of Lapluie (only I think it applies more so in her case).

Don’t get me going on Simon. There’s massive red-herring potential there. If he was Mafia coming in at the last second, surely he’d have nailed TSP’s coffin shut once and for all. But no, he voted for Lapluie which is an encouraging look in my view.

It would seem logical that any POE needs to focus on the LC and TSP wagons. THAT is where we should start looking.

In any case, this will be left up to you guys to determine. I believe that it would be cruel and inhumane of our Mafia team to keep me alive any longer in this game so I hope my game does end here in the next few hours. No one would listen to me when it counted, I don’t expect that’s like to change.

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:00 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:11 pm

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:05 pm If by your last question Jay, you mean someone else that I knew for certain to be a Townie, no.

I can understand why you'd be perturbed given your strong civilian read on Long Con. Whatever brings you to that read, consider how others are going to approach Long Con without the same rationale in mind that you have in yours. He hasn't done very much in this game. He's flown under the radar. I think it's fair to suspect him in the absence of special insight. In lapluie's case, I am pretty sure Long Con voted for her in a tally which could have easily destroyed her. He moved to TSP in the end, but for a long stretch he was on lapluie. Play devil's advocate with yourself and assume lapluie is a civilian -- how is she likely to respond when an under-the-radar Long Con is trying to get her lynched close to EOD?

Now, consider your own role in this incident. You were loudly shouting for LC to be saved. You didn't want that lynch. Anyone who knows you well would be well-advised to listen to you on that front. Does lapluie know you? Does your reputation hold any weight with a player who has never played with you before? What about the LC voters who do know you and still ignored you? Would you agree that there is a more obvious problem with that picture?

Very well, Jay - you have my attention.

Glorfindel on lapluie, Day 5:

Spoiler: show

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:31 pm Also, apologies to you Lapluie. Jay has made me see the light.

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:50 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:12 pm

lapluie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:12 pm Its best to lynch mafia players who are still active now, rather than an inactive player imo.

That's a fair argument. I would consider them both to be active at least in that they can send night actions. You'll note that Simon voted late in the last day phase, and for you.

I voted for Lapluie too and I was wrong. I don’t think Simon making a wrong choice particularly in that instance (sorry, Lapluie) wasn’t necessarily understandable.

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:55 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:11 pm One thing that is blindingly clear:

If Simon is mafia then lapluie is not.

Lapluie is NOT Mafia.

You can see a clear transition between phases. On Night 4 he started with strong suspicion of lapluie, and even though he was willing to listen to my argument in her favor he didn't 180 it. When the new day phase began though, he was immediate in absolving her and resolute in defending her.

I'm not lynching that.

perhaps I should not post until I catch up. Even still. I see this change...but it doesn't totally convince me. I mean....what if Glor got wrong info? I have seen things like this happen before. I don't trust any "info" to be 100% true in mafia.

Elohcin wants to lynch lapluie. This is Elohcin's response to my digging and finding strong evidence that Glorfindel had information in lapluie's favor.

"What if Glor got wrong info?" is a question reflecting a feasible universe, but I see no evidence that Elohcin has truly paid this any mind. There's another universe, one much more feasible, in which "Glor got right info". I don't understand why this would be so irrelevant to a civilian Elohcin.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:08 pm @JaggedJimmyJay I actually have another question, please answer honestly, your real opinion is more important than posturing at this point:

Would you prioritize a civilian victory over your own, even if there were a quicker and more definite way to assure your own victory? From your viewpoint, in the JaggedJimmyJay mindset.... is the best possible outcome for this game one where you win, or one where the most players win even if it involves a risk of you losing?

It wouldn't be fair of me to specifically prioritize one faction over another, and I would actively resist that unless my hand is forced. The worst-case scenario for this game would be for me to win alone, something which may be plausible in theory but doesn't need to happen. Beyond that I will not exclusively rail against or exclusively support any other faction (keep in mind that this is my mindset entering the game). I am here to have fun, experience Mafia in a way I don't typically get to experience it, and to balance that as much as I can with a genuine pursuit of winning the game. It appears likely to me that for the remainder of this game as we currently sit, working toward pro-civilian objectives is more likely to achieve that than working toward pro-mafia objectives. Ideally I will not be the main reason either side or the other wins. It shouldn't be my call.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:03 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:00 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:59 am @JaggedJimmyJay may i ask you a personal question?

k

do you know if you'd be made are would be made aware if/when you accomplish your wincon?

I wouldn't expect to receive a host message indicating it if that's your meaning. I don't know for certain.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:59 am @JaggedJimmyJay may i ask you a personal question?

k

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:59 am Oi JaggedJoeyJim? If I was bad ... you would think I was town. Beleedat.

You just hope that your lynch doesn't become the best decision I can come up with. Or it will be the best we can ask for in this lynch.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:34 am What are the endgame implications if Dave is mafia?

It would be a big boost for the civilians in that it'd decrease the mafia vote power by at least one and possibly more if he is Baraka or Shang Tsung.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:29 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:28 pm I feel like Elohcin, Made, and novaselinenever is a mafia buffet. I have placed a vote.

What about Mac? Your thing earlier, about him being fake? Where does that compare to the Nova case on your pooh-pooh scale?

He could be. I don't struggle to imagine MacDougall brazenly playing for a game ending Elohcin mislynch or some such. It's plausible, but I don't know that there's a reason to call it likely.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:23 pm I feel like you have something personal against marmot and you are taking it out on him in mafia. This is how it seems to me, anyway.

Also, screw this shit. People should know that I don't play Mafia like a petulant child and try to lynch people out of some ridiculous grudge. I have never been that type and there's no good reason to assume that's what I was doing with Marmot.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:45 pm and my criticisms of your case were not vague. I was very precise on what I thought about your points.

You are making me mad Jay because you are saying things that are not true. Go back and read that whole day.

Anyone else think they should vote me because I "had no personal effort to assess marmot myself". What a jerk and a fucking liar you are being, Jay. I'm sorry to get upset, but I don't take it well when I put time and effort into something and someone tries to shit all over it like I didn't do a fucking thing. I have to go to sleep and not post again this evening. Gah! I'm angry.

I was there too. You said things about the case. They were vague. "That just seems like Marmot to me." That is nothing. That is not a read. It's an absolution of a player who is under pressure for no reason.

I have no desire to upset you. I'm playing Mafia though, and if I have reason to believe that you are aligned the mafia team I am going to say so as I always have before. Marmot gave this shit too.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:37 pm Not true! I went and read marmot. I said his reactions to your case, though stupid, were very weird. He didn;t try to defend himsef at all. And I had a feeling my defense of him would come back to bite me in the ass. I said he could possibly be mafia because of how he reacted and didn't fight. I said that he sounded genuinely frustrated. I promise you, I read his posts and did my own assessment OUTSIDE of your ssensless case and it makes me mad that you are saying I did not. If you vote for me on this you are voting on false accusations. I don;t knwo what is wrong with you this game, but you cannot seem to come up with a valid argument imo.

My "senseless case" is the reason he's a corpse. It made sense and you didn't make an effort to understand it. To disagree is fine. speedchuck also disagreed with some of my points. He eventually considered the case and Marmot in general from a different mindset and came to a better understanding of the points I was trying to make. What did you do?

Call it a bad case.

Then call it a bad case again.

Then call it a bad case some more.

Then ask why the case isn't better.

What the hell is this post:

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:22 pm the second. So...this makes y'all think Jay is civ and that he seriously thinks marmot is bad? But why not have a more convincing case on him then?

This is not a player who is trying to grasp a case.

lapluie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:29 pm yeaaahh sticking to my last vote was of made.

Whaddya suspect about ol' Made?

I feel like Elohcin, Made, and novaselinenever is a mafia buffet. I have placed a vote.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:05 pm Why though? Why are you all wanting to vote for me?

I'll start you off with an appetizer:

You didn't give my case against Marmot a chance. You didn't begin to give it a chance. You didn't consider suspicion of Marmot beyond my case. Your handling of Marmot can be described as follows:

"JJJ's case on Marmot isn't good. Why isn't JJJ's case on Marmot better? What a bad case. It's bad stinky crud. Welp, I suppose that's all I have to say about that." Your criticisms of my case were as vague as they were stubborn, and worse: you made no personal effort to assess Marmot yourself. You absolved him because you didn't care for my case. The strength of my case against Marmot is irrelevant to Marmot's alignment.

Icky poo.