The Syndicate

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:46 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:42 pm I don't think the importance of Colin's vote is in where he places it -- it's more important in that it exists by the numbers. The civilians lose at 2 vs. 2 because that vote exists, instead of playing on. LyLo happens sooner.

Is it different to or equal to scotty's vote being worth 2? Different because you could devise a tie plan to counter a double vote?

Usually when I implement roles like that, I specifically indicate "the bonus vote does not function during elimination phases" to avoid things like this. I hate it when vote shenanigans infect a beautiful endgame. (That's not what happened here)

In a LyLo scenario their utility is similar. Overall, a bad guy who straight up can't be lynched until X is stronger. That means that at the very least, a no lynch is going to happen if the civilians aren't perfect in their order of operations. No lynches are balls.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:44 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:42 pm I don't think the importance of Colin's vote is in where he places it -- it's more important in that it exists by the numbers. The civilians lose at 2 vs. 2 because that vote exists, instead of playing on. LyLo happens sooner.

I see what you’re saying. Totally true.

I certainly don't take anything away from y'all. I think this was possibly the most well-played heist we've ever had by both factions. I've rarely experienced such a hard-fought defeat. Y'all had to endure a lot to get here, and you got here.

I am taking a very long break from Mafia. I have been trying to do it, but I find myself signing up at the last minute to help games take off. This time I must refrain.

I need to have a productive summer, and then fall classes will resume. I might consider a burglary here or there.

I don't think the importance of Colin's vote is in where he places it -- it's more important in that it exists by the numbers. The civilians lose at 2 vs. 2 because that vote exists, instead of playing on. LyLo happens sooner.

I rarely seem to get killed, especially early.

And at 4-straight losses, I can't blame anyone. Let me screw up.

As always G-Man, you hosted a fun, flavorful game which exploded. Thank you.

G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:10 pm
-I don't think Caerbannog being godfather-like was overpowering the baddies. It worked well and added drama and tension. I was torn between making Caerbannog just survive his first lynch or be godfather-like. What say you?

I think that, on balance, mafia roles which cannot be lynched until all others are lynched are extremely powerful -- among the most powerful that faction can have. Not only does it prevent Colin being lynched on Day 4, but it leaves the mafia with two votes at all times -- LyLo came on Day 6 instead of Day 7 as a result.

That said, I don't blame you at all for that -- in a 12 vs. 3 game, one strong mafia role isn't a big deal. Perhaps this one was too strong, but the civilians have no room to complain. If everything was perfectly kosher, Epignosis would have never been removed from the POE pool, and he would have been every bit the suspect that Quin, nutella, and Scotty were in the last couple days. The mafia team got burned by that (and of course Epi didn't intend any shenanigans, it was an understandable accident) -- they had to overcome a serious suspect instantly turning into essentially a confirmed civilian. If Caerbannog was too strong, that tipped the balance back.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:33 pm Folks, let’s not lose sight of the fact that I recently passed 1000 posts here. A great accomplishment.

Great to have you back in action, old timer.

I'd like to make a friendly request to members of The Syndicate to please stop playing the best scum games of your lives against me -- cool thanks.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:24 pm So what did everyone have for dinner?

Gross tater tots and microwaved burritos.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:23 pmSo did we lose?

I think everyone is full of shit right now, so I'll just wait for G-Man.

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:18 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:16 pm Epi why the hell didn't you vote for dizzy

Would anybody have followed me?

No.

And at any rate, I was forbidden from alluding to my role or alignment a second time, and besides, I couldn't keep up with anything, and I took it for granted that JJJ had the dentist count right, so I never questioned it.

I did. You were #7 of 8. The 8th would have to protest.

Dizzy has claimed troll though, so we'll see.

This doesn't appear promising, so I will simply tip the cap. Nice game mafia team. Y'all played your hearts out. We did too. Losing sucks, but it sucks less when I know we gave it everything we could.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:15 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:14 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:14 pm I hate this goddamn game

I'm sorry. =(

I couldn't let town win.

I KNOW YOURE NOT THE FUCKING DENTIST BECAUSE EPI IS JESUS CHRIST I SHOULDVE FUCKING SAID SMOTHEIING FUCK

Welp.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:14 pm I couldn't let town win.

Who fucked this up?

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:09 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:09 pm

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:07 pm The hard evidence favors nutella.

The tone and face value appearances favor Scotty.

I think the disparity is greater in the latter than the former.

I haven't seen any hard evidence against Scotty.

Semantics. Inferential evidence if you prefer.

Can you summarize what evidence is against him?

Fucking hell man, I have 3 minutes

He made a bunch of noise about suspecting Colin from Days 1-4, but did nothing to promote his lynch until that 4th day. Before that he favored "teammates of Colin" like Elohcin, a connection he drew while both were still unlynched and never exposed.

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:07 pm The hard evidence favors nutella.

The tone and face value appearances favor Scotty.

I think the disparity is greater in the latter than the former.

I haven't seen any hard evidence against Scotty.

Semantics. Inferential evidence if you prefer.

The hard evidence favors nutella.

The tone and face value appearances favor Scotty.

I think the disparity is greater in the latter than the former.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:03 pm It's. Not. Fucking. Opportunism. It's trying to solve the game.

That's the $64,000 question, isn't it. One has to make the judgment.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:00 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:59 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:57 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:56 pm Here’s the deal: nutella has been an opportunist all game. I used to find it a civ factor where she was just reading things haphazardly, but JJJ- she has buddied you since her entrance, and has literally played today “lynch whoever as long as it ain’t me”

THat's the only way I can play this lylo because one of you is bad and it ain't me. Fuck. I don't know how else to solve this fucking game. If I am lynched the civs lose. If anyone else is lynched there is a chance we win. That's all I can do

It's been the entire game, not just LyLo.

No, it hasn't. I've only been a lynch candidate since last phase. I'm doing my best.

You did it when your wagon tied Quin's toward the end of Day 5. That was the first time you wanted to flop over Scotty.

Your opportunism has been all over the place. It's the most blatant problem I've had with you all game long. You've followed someone else's rage repeatedly.

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:00 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:48 pm Really need to know your final stance Epi. There's very little time.

You know who else would like to know his final stance? Me?

You constantly pestering me about it isn't going to speed things up. It does nothing to help those lingering doubts I have in the back of my mind about you.

Do what you have to do. 13 minutes and my piece of shit wi-fi don't leave me much.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:57 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:56 pm Here’s the deal: nutella has been an opportunist all game. I used to find it a civ factor where she was just reading things haphazardly, but JJJ- she has buddied you since her entrance, and has literally played today “lynch whoever as long as it ain’t me”

THat's the only way I can play this lylo because one of you is bad and it ain't me. Fuck. I don't know how else to solve this fucking game. If I am lynched the civs lose. If anyone else is lynched there is a chance we win. That's all I can do

It's been the entire game, not just LyLo.

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:56 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:59 pm

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm Also, please, again, mentioning me does nothing. I get no notifications of any kind when you do this. I don't see anything until I log in, and I read everything first that came before anyway. This is the first time all day I've had a chance to sit down. I'm begging here.

You may struggle to read everything and still make an impact in the time allotted. Obviously you'll do whatever you do, but if there's one thing you could comment on, I would really like to know what you think of Scotty's handling of the dentist-theory on Dizzy.

If you don't know what I am talking about and haven't gotten there, I can point to posts.

It's either genuine, or he had to be playing stupid, which means his addressing Marmot as he did was doubling down on that ploy, which is overselling things far too much.

I'm not sure whether you mean overselling as in unlikely to be intentional or overselling as in exaggerated and fake.

I don't like much of anything nutella has said in the last 60-90 minutes. Ugh.

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:50 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:49 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:49 pm Charlie's perspective would really be nice.

Not to mention if that vote doesn't move, we're going to have a tie.

How about this?

I refuse to vote for Scotty.

Now go.

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:47 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:40 pm I’m starting to think Charlie Blackmon is our last scum, folks.

I'm tempted to look up another Max Scherzer statistic (since he pitched 13Ks in 8 innings tonight), and the last time I did this when Max was pitching, it worked out pretty well.

If you don't consider the numbers when you vote, you may open the door for Colin to tie.

Really need to know your final stance Epi. There's very little time.

[mention]Scotty[/mention]

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:32 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:28 pm I’ve answered this. I think I would do the same thing if I were bad, but It doesn’t change my read.

If anything, I’m playing NOU tag with Nutella with this scum slip bullshit

Okay, so if you still think nutella is a viable candidate, then Dyslexicon must be a civilian. Do you understand why? It's not a read. It's logic.

Absolutely everybody would could potentially take issue with Dizzy (and thus view Dizzy as the only suspect of interest) has spoken on the matter, and it's clear that nobody has adopted that perspective. You were the last person who could do that, and you didn't. You suspect nutella too.

If there is a non-Dizzy dentist in the suspect pool who doesn't believe that Dizzy is a confirmed mafioso, then that person cannot possibly be paying attention. Everybody here seems to be paying attention.

I have no idea why it's so hard to get a question answered.

[mention]Scotty[/mention], you don't have time to play catch up. I am trying to talk to you right now.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:44 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:44 pm Where the hell is Scotty anyway? I don't see him fighting anymore now that I'm in the spotlight. He's sitting back and letting you two make a stupid choice.

Girl, I got work. I’ve been fighting my ass off for mostly asinine reasons all day. I can understand the content and suspecting me for that I guess, but entire dentist talk is going into my burn book

I don't think I can justify voting for anyone else as long as I keep seeing this.

People really are better off being visible. I have no idea whether Scotty is even here.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:36 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:33 pm nutella, you were 50/50 or 60/40 on Scotty/JJJ. At what moment did you decide that the "40" was no longer worth investigating, and that the lynch must be the 60?

When it became clear that you and Dizzy also leaned toward Scotty and were otherwise only considering me/it was going to be between me and Scotty anyway since Dizzy would not even consider voting for you. It's like something Dizzy said around the same time -- if we're all slightly leaning toward the same player, lynching that player is the best option we have.

It looked to me like that shift really occurred when you took two more votes.

I think we need to make our collective decision by about 10 minutes to the deadline. A bunch of last-second nonsense could really become a problem, particularly while my wi-fi is eating shit. Every vote is critical in this scenario.

[mention]nutella[/mention], you were 50/50 or 60/40 on Scotty/JJJ. At what moment did you decide that the "40" was no longer worth investigating, and that the lynch must be the 60?

[mention]Scotty[/mention] for the love of bob man, please answer the question.

Great, now shit loading slow.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:22 pm I’m back

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:55 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:53 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:51 pm The simplest universe is that Scotty read the writing on the wall re: Dizzy and realized that his only out was to go for nutella.

Well yeah. If he was town understanding that he had done fucked up, why not say that? Why not comment on it? Why just the "oh, but it could also be Nut but it could be Dizzy but Jimmey is defending him and I don't know, I'll go for Nut" and then continue to drag Nut instead. Doesn't make town sense at all to me.

That in particular is bugging me. If we remove the theory from the equation as Scotty has been inclined to do, then I don't know why my perspective of Dizzy means anything about Dizzy's alignment beyond sometimes JJJ is right about things. It recalls the weird incident with MP and Scotty's perceived red check -- behaving as though I have information on Dizzy when I clearly cannot.

It’s more of ‘jjj has been deadfastly hesitant to vote for Dys and at the end of the day, I’m not getting any support. So I might just have to swallow my pride and say I’m probably wrong’

I don’t like being wrong y’all, and I really like winning

I really need you to tell me whether you understand why Dizzy must be town within the constructs of the theory or you don't understand.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:19 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:11 pm nutella, what's the most civilian thing about your play and the most mafia thing about Scotty's play? One of each is all I ask.

My reactiveness/changing my mind a lot in the moment in order to turn over every stone and not let anyone get away without scrutiny.

Do you think this kind of thing is less prevalent in your posts when you are mafia?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:13 pm I think Jimmey's overthinking kind of playstyle isn't matching mine well. I don't play well when I think a lot.

I find myself shifting back toward Scotty. It seems as though he discarded you as a suspect because I wouldn't let him continue as opposed to because he no longer thought it was the right direction to go. That's part of The Theory remaining unresolved on his end too. I don't know what his obligations are in real life, but it's very difficult with him gone right now.

[mention]nutella[/mention], what's the most civilian thing about your play and the most mafia thing about Scotty's play? One of each is all I ask.

This is exhausting. We've been playing at an EOD pace literally all day.

Charlie Blackmon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm Also, please, again, mentioning me does nothing. I get no notifications of any kind when you do this. I don't see anything until I log in, and I read everything first that came before anyway. This is the first time all day I've had a chance to sit down. I'm begging here.

You may struggle to read everything and still make an impact in the time allotted. Obviously you'll do whatever you do, but if there's one thing you could comment on, I would really like to know what you think of Scotty's handling of the dentist-theory on Dizzy.

If you don't know what I am talking about and haven't gotten there, I can point to posts.

Now that Charlie is here, I don't want his vote creating a 4-1 lead. Not yet.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:53 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:51 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:50 pm Is your reasoning right now just tone? Do you have any actual reason to think I'm Colin's teammate? Is it better than the argument for Scotty being Colin's teammate? I want you both to think critically about this and not just dismiss me based on my tone right now.

Of course it isn't just tone. There's a pretty obvious case to be made against you, and you've already seen it like four times. This is just the most recent infraction.

Is there? Really? All I've seen is that I waffle a lot and that Colin made one weird wifom post about me. Whereas Scotty claimed to suspect him all game but never did anything with it.

I don't think it's "nutella waffles a lot".

It's that "nutella follows thread momentum in whichever direction is most convenient at all times, and her hunting efforts have been mostly limited to those climatic and atmospheric trends -- opportunism everywhere."

I don't care about Colin's WIFOM.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:51 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:48 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:36 pm Don't make the same mistake we made with Quin. If Scotty wins having narrowly avoided two consecutive lynches because you chickened out I will be pissed.

Who's chickening out? Why can't you just be more suspicious than Scotty is?

You and marmot chickened out yesterday on switching to Scotty. We can't let him slide past another lynch.

Does his survival of the Day 5 lynch mean he is more likely to be a mafioso?

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:50 pm Is your reasoning right now just tone? Do you have any actual reason to think I'm Colin's teammate? Is it better than the argument for Scotty being Colin's teammate? I want you both to think critically about this and not just dismiss me based on my tone right now.

Of course it isn't just tone. There's a pretty obvious case to be made against you, and you've already seen it like four times. This is just the most recent infraction.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:49 pm Charlie's perspective would really be nice.

Not to mention if that vote doesn't move, we're going to have a tie.