The Syndicate

Anyway good game mafia!

I suppose there’s no 3 vs. 2?

whatever good luck everyone

Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:28 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:27 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:26 pm
robyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:24 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:23 pm No you dont. You don't even know why you should be blindsheeping me over J³ every single time here.

Like yeah, obviously I could've done more posting about it,l sorry but holy I should not have put myself in this position, trying to explain with 10 minutes on the clock.
you don't have to give me a dissertation, c'mon 1-2 sentences and the full solve
Scotty's interactions with LoRab don't match what he's saying abt here early game, and the fact that Scotty switched to LoRab v read doesnt help matters.
Scotty emphasized earlier today that he does not town read LoRab
Huhh $%#!

He caps lock screamed at me when I said he town read LoRab. I misunderstood him. He did not.

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:26 pm
robyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:24 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:23 pm No you dont. You don't even know why you should be blindsheeping me over J³ every single time here.

Like yeah, obviously I could've done more posting about it,l sorry but holy I should not have put myself in this position, trying to explain with 10 minutes on the clock.
you don't have to give me a dissertation, c'mon 1-2 sentences and the full solve
Scotty's interactions with LoRab don't match what he's saying abt here early game, and the fact that Scotty switched to LoRab v read doesnt help matters.

Scotty emphasized earlier today that he does not town read LoRab

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:26 pm peeky
Will sled in morn

Vote lorab

@Bereft please assess quickly

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:26 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:24 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:23 pm [VOTE: Michelle ] aubergine
You hate me so much.
You argued michelle all day and then switched to lorab last second.

You argued seanzie all day and then switched to michelle last second.

I wouldnt be surprised if both of them are town

I know. I don't care. All I can do is place a vote.

Michelle's EOD posts are, once again, okay. It's hard for me to take a ton from them, but she is hanging in there under difficult conditions.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:23 pm [VOTE: Michelle ] aubergine

You hate me so much.

[VOTE: LoRab] aubergine

I eagerly await DrWilgy putting me in time out.

Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:20 pm
robyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:18 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:18 pm
robyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:17 pm scotty probs a wolf, does it mean bad news for lorab?
Yes it $%#!ing does holy $%#!.
give me a sentence why
Holy $%#! man, I'm the only $%#!ing entire person in this entire playerlist whos $%#!ing a constructed a coherent worldview and you've straight up igbored because Ive already mentioned Scotty/LoRab interactions more than once.

You haven't been ignored. You've made arguments in your own head and then #$&%ed when people don't read your mind. You have provided tidbits, but not a full, coherent argument. I may follow your lead anyway.

I think Michelle is the more "logical" vote, but a vibe is a vibe. Bereft is more confident about this than anyone else about either wagon. So.

Considering a swap.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:15 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:13 pm The advantage of a LoRab chop is that a non-voter is removed from the game -- if mafia, sure great, if town, well -- can't have town non-voters in 10 vs. 4. She'd probably turn up eventually granted, albeit way behind.

Same applied to Seanzie, so folks will have to wrestle with that. I don't care about activity level either way (high or low, a wolf is a wolf).
negative, arguments used to not chop me by you were that I would come back and post
Seanzie would have done the same yet he was the chop instead of ts or anyone else that was a no poster at the time. Yet you chose Seanzie. Why not TS the unknown quantity?

Seanzie was specifically very slow to post as mafia in Don't Starve. I could have rolled the dice though. At the time a zero poster was a zero poster.

The advantage of a LoRab chop is that a non-voter is removed from the game -- if mafia, sure great, if town, well -- can't have town non-voters in 10 vs. 4. She'd probably turn up eventually granted, albeit way behind.

Same applied to Seanzie, so folks will have to wrestle with that. I don't care about activity level either way (high or low, a wolf is a wolf).

I'm almost okay with a tie. Probably not, but almost.

If Michelle is town, I would say shift focus to the Bereft team (LoRab, ts account, Abigail, Scotty).

Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:01 pm Wait why the $%#! are ppl voting Michelle.

We're not $%#!ing voting Michelle today.

You called both wagons crap, so who would you like to kill?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:00 pm I really hate this world view and I refuse to give up on JJJ being wolf till after the flip

I love you too, boo.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:56 pm I realyl hate that you have Cape higher than me. And Bereft not on the same tier as Robyn but I will fucking live with it if Michelle flips wolf

Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:57 pm Anyways J³ needs to fix the tierlist now.

On Rondo's request I asked my brain to produce a list GTH, and that's where I am. Anyway, folks can consider "above the POE line" one standalone tier if they want. I don't care that much. Those are town reads.

robyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:50 pm https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... tch-s-Moon

michelle just played this game as scum

and it JUST ended

I sniffed around the L&M hydra for any clues. I think this is similar material to what we've seen here:

That's good to know, i can sheep you here because it looks like you have enough meta
M

Confirmation bias acknowledged.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:50 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:36 pm I just remembered some more long-ago Bereft posts that reaffirmed my confidence in him, which extends my confidence in robyn, which extends my confidence in my other four primary town reads (Wilgy, Rondo, Cape, DM). That helps my current state of mind. I still think this POE is just good. I hope we can start to prove it today, but even if not, there's so much that supports this direction. Whatever happens happens.

I am writing this mostly for myself, but here have a pick-me up anyone else if you like.
can you give me a rainbow?

DrWilgy
Cape90
robyn

Bereft
DarlingMonroe
RondoDimBuckle

---POE Line---

Thunal
Scotty

Abigail
S~V~S
LoRab
ts account
Michelle

Something like that. Order isn't super meaningful within tiers.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:48 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:06 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:04 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:55 am And if you think that "pairs us", oh well
Actually, I think the opposite. From what I know of SVS I really don't think she'd use a teammate's irl availability to shield her.
I think that’s NAI (individually and interactively).
Why do you think it's NAI?

A lot of my stronger town tells are because I don't think the person would even have the thought as mafia.

I think that was one of those moments where Michelle said reasoning mafia wouldn't even think of. I don't see Michelle as someone who has as in-depth reasoning as scum and absolutely would make that kind of read as a snap take and leave it. The fact that she considered all this history with this read in particular, an easy townread on the scariest player in the game, I think is something scum Michelle wouldn't do. It's the kind of read that would be an afterthought as scum.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:38 am
Your conclusion was and is rushed and limited by the fact I didn't have time to explain it at all.
I started to play 5 years ago as noob player, with low English reading/writing skills, but with a life experience who let me the possibility to understand things unspoken behind the words. It felt thrilling to find words to defend myself while I was accused of being the bad guy. As mafia, I didn't even have to do much because my mafia rands were not many so my start in forum mafia was to be villager again and again.
My homie who restarted the mafia section in our forum sent me to MU to play the Mentor mentee game in january 2019. My mentor is a legendary player and he mentored me after playing 12 years of mafia.
I was always paranoid playing with Momstrman, he is now retired, maybe turbo-ing from time to time, but at one moment I learned to read him by a small trick.
Because he is retired and also because he is not a Syndicate regular I can tell you about this trick, otherwise I hate to show my shortcuts for reading someone.
My mentor was always mentoring town when he was town giving advice for the play in general. As mafia he wasn't doing it. And I started to notice that at other very strong players as well.
You were doing it in our finale game and your start here made me write that post because I considered your advice useful for town.
I don't even believe it's the easiest town read you ever had. It's just a take I posted to see what feedback I receive from it. You speculated the rest. Made from it more than it was, imaginated the omgua when I said it's not set in stone.
A read made by game experience can be a bad or a good read, and i am always starting somewhere where an idea pops in my head, which is exactly what I did with the town read on you.

I think S~V~s has a general policy that she will endorse no matter who it is (and she's probably a bit more likely still with oldschooler posters like LoRab). I don't think it matters what alignment either of them are. It's part of her game philosophy.

The primary reason I don't share your confidence about that Michelle read is that I know with certainty that I have provided explanations like that as mafia. Mafia can definitely think of it, and indeed that's something I may even emphasize as mafia. Sometimes a narrative is sellable as a story, and you can be sure that I will capitalize on that as a wolf. I don't know really if that's in Michelle's playbook, but I know it's in mine. I am sure she is telling the truth, but I don't think it means much.

If I was: Who I targeted Last night:
Ted Lasso - Myself

Coach Beard - ‪ts account

Rebecca Walton - S~V~S

Roy Kent - DrWilgy

Keeley Jones - DrWilgy

Jamie Tartt - Bereft

Leslie Higgins - Scotty

Sam Obisanya - Michelle

Colin Hughes - ts account

Dani Rojas - Michelle
-----------------------------------
Rupert Mannion - Kill Long Con

Nathan Shelley - passive role

Trio of fans - Curse Scotty

Edwin Akufo - DrWilgy

I had a Mafia dream last night too. I forgot about it until y'all just mentioned that. I can't remember exactly what happened, but it was definitely a Mafia dream.

Yikes.

I just remembered some more long-ago Bereft posts that reaffirmed my confidence in him, which extends my confidence in robyn, which extends my confidence in my other four primary town reads (Wilgy, Rondo, Cape, DM). That helps my current state of mind. I still think this POE is just good. I hope we can start to prove it today, but even if not, there's so much that supports this direction. Whatever happens happens.

I am writing this mostly for myself, but here have a pick-me up anyone else if you like.

robyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:30 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:27 pm
RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:26 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:22 pm Whatever happens today, I want folks to listen to DrWilgy moving forward.
why?
I think he's town, I think he knows his shit, and I think sometimes his best work gets overlooked.
he caught me before when i was powerwolfing the fuck out of a game, and he sees the same style of play here, and i tr that read on me even though it's wrong

but it's gonna lead to trouble even though yeah him assuming it's a hard game and his alignment is just being tmi'ed is a villa reaction + tinfoiling bereft of all people etc etc

smth smth he will have good takes

That's what I appreciate about @DrWilgy later in a game. He'll keep the "core" on its toes if he thinks it's necessary, but he will also play with a level head and not make super rash decisions. I also kind of think killing someone will posts today will maximize his future utility, because he needs data. That's not why Michelle should go, but it helps.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:26 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:22 pm Whatever happens today, I want folks to listen to DrWilgy moving forward.
why?

I think he's town, I think he knows his shit, and I think sometimes his best work gets overlooked.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:25 pm Honestly, I don't even know what to think anymore. I'm exhausted and I feel like a lot of pieces don't make sense. I want to stop staring at the thread hoping some solve will click, because every time I feel like it does I doubt it later.

There's a psychological phenomenon called "incubation" that suggests creative human problem solving can be aided by taking some time away from a problem to think about other things before returning to it (this can break us out of preconception and confirmation bias).

However, I think that's probably what the night phase is for.

@Scotty in your recent game as mafia alongside S~V~S, do you recall her being extremely slow and careful with her vote? I think it's reasonably ordinary for her, but this is a bit extreme.

Maybe lowercase response to affirm, caps lock to deny, or a heavy mix of both if you don't think you have a decent answer.

Whatever happens today, I want folks to listen to DrWilgy moving forward.

Just under 12 hours elapsed between this:

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:53 am ‪Michelle‬

Their play today is town tonally, vibes, frustration , purity, posting.

and this:

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:25 pm Hey hey hey hey hey

Umm

Hey

We should really REALLY kill michelle here

During that period, Michelle made these posts:

Spoiler: show

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:47 pm
Spoiler: show

Who died?
Poll runs till Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:30 am
Please note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.

You may select 1 option

‪☆Princess Abigail☆‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
bereft
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪Cape90‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪DarlingMonroe‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪DrWilgy‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪JaggedJimmyJay‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪LoRab‬
2
18%
Voters: robyn, Thunal33
‪Michelle‬
3
27%
Voters: JaggedJimmyJay, DrWilgy, Scotty
‪robyn‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪RondoDimBuckle‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪Scotty‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪S~V~S‬
2
18%
Voters: DarlingMonroe, Cape90
‪Thunal33‬
1
9%
Voters: RondoDimBuckle
‪ts account‬
0
No votes
Voters: None

3
27%
Voters: Bereft, Michelle, Roxy
Total votes: 11
VC

LoRab‬. 2. Voters: robyn, Thunal33
‪Michelle‬. 3 Voters: JaggedJimmyJay, DrWilgy, Scotty
‪S~V~S‬. 2. Voters: DarlingMonroe, Cape90
‪Thunal33‬. 1. Voters: RondoDimBuckle

Me having a good day irl is bad for town, I see I am top wagon
I have a few pings I will answer asap at them before anything

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:24 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:06 am @Michelle as your time permits, I think the absolute best thing you could provide are your impressions of these people (maybe from an ISO skim):

S~V~S, LoRab, Scotty, Abigail

or any subset of them if you don't have time
I read zero SVS posts,
Lorad same,
Scotty posts coloured like parrot feathers and i have little understanding for the meaning of what I read, idk what to do but I'd say he seems to try a solve so it's more towny than not
Abigail had yday weak posts and Idk if she improved by now or she hit any of her town notes.
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:34 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:21 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:06 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 2:43 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 2:26 pm [VOTE: Jay] aubergine

Since you complained about Omgus, take it
Not town
I concur
Explain
You were the counter wagon d1, a silly looking vote doesn't look good in that light.

I feel that I should have a more clear means of knowing your headspace given how much traction you had and that's just not the case. I will review your more recent stuff, but as it stands when I saw this it felt almost in confirmation of the d1 wagon.
I had traction for low activity.
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:01 pm @Michelle I've reviewed and still think that my vote on you makes sense for reasons I've stated previously. Allow me to explain more precisely on some things.
Michelle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 5:51 pm You force me to self press on Sean
This post was the first indication of you desiring to place a vote anywhere, it wasn't caused by hunting but a justification of a vote that needed none as there was nothing to justify against.

It's not like you had stated "I want to vote X but you force me to vote Y" where the justification would've made sense.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 2:26 pm [VOTE: Jay] aubergine

Since you complained about Omgus, take it
Your next indication of vote/suspicion was more silliness and this was in spite of being a d1 counter wagon that you were cognisant of.

Following this, I've still not seen a legitimate suspicion or signs of hunting from your slot. You seem mostly fixated on Jay (which is fine, I too am fixated on Jay for other reasons) but there's nothing besides that present.
EOD1 wagons were on me vs zero poster and SVS iirc, and I only knew my alignament so I self pressed.
Why Sean? I know he would never leave the Poe, as absent slot all day long.
Also people were pushing for him.
Is that the reason you are voting me?
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:36 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:38 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 7:27 pm
Cape90 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 7:26 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:59 am Rondo all that “keeping me in check” is omgusing my suspicions after giving me the easiest town read I have ever received.
what do you mean by this? You clearly don't think Thunal is super towny unless i am misinterpreting what you are saying
I was referring to Michelle in that comment. Rondo made an argument for why Michelle's responses to me at EOD1 were towny, and that was my counter.
Your conclusion was and is rushed and limited by the fact I didn't have time to explain it at all.
I started to play 5 years ago as noob player, with low English reading/writing skills, but with a life experience who let me the possibility to understand things unspoken behind the words. It felt thrilling to find words to defend myself while I was accused of being the bad guy. As mafia, I didn't even have to do much because my mafia rands were not many so my start in forum mafia was to be villager again and again.
My homie who restarted the mafia section in our forum sent me to MU to play the Mentor mentee game in january 2019. My mentor is a legendary player and he mentored me after playing 12 years of mafia.
I was always paranoid playing with Momstrman, he is now retired, maybe turbo-ing from time to time, but at one moment I learned to read him by a small trick.
Because he is retired and also because he is not a Syndicate regular I can tell you about this trick, otherwise I hate to show my shortcuts for reading someone.
My mentor was always mentoring town when he was town giving advice for the play in general. As mafia he wasn't doing it. And I started to notice that at other very strong players as well.
You were doing it in our finale game and your start here made me write that post because I considered your advice useful for town.
I don't even believe it's the easiest town read you ever had. It's just a take I posted to see what feedback I receive from it. You speculated the rest. Made from it more than it was, imaginated the omgua when I said it's not set in stone.
A read made by game experience can be a bad or a good read, and i am always starting somewhere where an idea pops in my head, which is exactly what I did with the town read on you.
I think this comes from a town mindset. It's one of those things where most mafia don't even think that in depth about that kind of read.
I didn't think that way, it's just game experience.

Why do you vote Lorab?
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:59 pm I would very much love to hear reads on Bereft and robyn from @S~V~S, @DrWilgy, @LoRab, @Michelle, and anyone else that hasn’t recently stated them. That’ll be nice for me to assess the general game state. Thanks.
Robyn had a town core of Cape and Bereft. A simple stance and I didn't notice anyone to say something against it. At the time I had a thought and I don't want to give it away but I wouldn't vote any of them.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 2:01 pm I will note that, historically, some of my worst town games from the standpoint of having decent reads have been games plagued with inactivity — as this one is. So no matter how much work I have done, I am still thinking over everything and I still value everyone’s input.
I am sorry, weekends should be time out from mafia. At least Sundays.
I will be active, pinky promise!

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:25 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:00 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:47 pm
Spoiler: show

Who died?
Poll runs till Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:30 am
Please note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.

You may select 1 option

‪☆Princess Abigail☆‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
bereft
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪Cape90‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪DarlingMonroe‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪DrWilgy‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪JaggedJimmyJay‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪LoRab‬
2
18%
Voters: robyn, Thunal33
‪Michelle‬
3
27%
Voters: JaggedJimmyJay, DrWilgy, Scotty
‪robyn‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪RondoDimBuckle‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪Scotty‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪S~V~S‬
2
18%
Voters: DarlingMonroe, Cape90
‪Thunal33‬
1
9%
Voters: RondoDimBuckle
‪ts account‬
0
No votes
Voters: None

3
27%
Voters: Bereft, Michelle, Roxy
Total votes: 11
VC

LoRab‬. 2. Voters: robyn, Thunal33
‪Michelle‬. 3 Voters: JaggedJimmyJay, DrWilgy, Scotty
‪S~V~S‬. 2. Voters: DarlingMonroe, Cape90
‪Thunal33‬. 1. Voters: RondoDimBuckle

Me having a good day irl is bad for town, I see I am top wagon
I have a few pings I will answer asap at them before anything
Welcome back friend. Glad you are having a good day.
Thanks!

Time for a few Isos now

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:55 pm Lorab doesn't have many posts, but the impression is she is a great person fighting for a heart breaking cause.

From a mafia Pov she didn't accept someone trusting her, saying she is more comfy with being scum read.
This is psychologically interesting because mafia would want to not lead the way by saying 'trust me' only to have a mischop, and it helps the player to positiom themselves in the null part of the reads which is a good spot for mafia to be in. This, for me, is suspicious.

She explained in a wall the playstyle of the old Syndicate community who made me approach this site and stay for so many years already, enjoying these games a lot.
But that wall has no alignament indicative value for me, just explains she has a different playstyle.

The biggest game related post is a reads wall with a couple of town reads and the explanation of why she doesn't believe in reads lists. Again this gives me the impressions of avoidance and it's wolfy.

Conclusion: I understand why she is in the Poe and I agree with the votes on the slot.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:58 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:53 pm [VOTE: Bereft] aubergine
Why?.

Oh nvm, i wouldn't understand it -.-

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:14 pm I opened SVSs Iso and she has 50 posts, it will take some time.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:18 pm I was afk all day.

Not voting now doesn't mean I will not vote at all.

I know who I am not voting, but I will read at least SVSs Iso before voting.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:20 pm There's something i noticed but i wait to see if i am the only one

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:23 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:15 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:24 pm I didn't think that way, it's just game experience.

Why do you vote Lorab?
I still think that mafia wouldn't think about all that when making the read on JJJ's post, because it felt like you were really thinking about it and it's the kind of read mafia would make a snap take of and not think about it more.

I voted LoRab then because I didn't want you or SVS voted. I feel like by PoE LoRab is fairly likely to hit and she did have a couple pings.
Now reading the Iso I agree with the wagon on Lorab

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:28 pm
DarlingMonroe wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:23 pm yeah, bereft/michelle/lorab/svs is where I am at for wolves

and it seems town has gotten it together with votes on all of them... and them not voting for each other or for townies is what is convincing me
Can you say it again?

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:46 pm I opened that Iso, read some starting fluff and my eyes are too tired to continue. I will take a nap until closer to Eod.

I have a general feeling of the game, I wouldn't vote today any of Robyn/Jay/cape/bereft/thunal/Scotty/wilgy not ordered

At the opposite part of the reads list, Lorab is in my immediate Poe.

The rest, until I understand their mindset, are in the null part of the list.

[VOTE: lorab] aubergine

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:47 pm
Spoiler: show
Who died?
Poll runs till Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:30 am
Please note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.

You may select 1 option

‪☆Princess Abigail☆‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
bereft
2
18%
Voters: DarlingMonroe, Scotty
‪Cape90‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪DarlingMonroe‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪DrWilgy‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪JaggedJimmyJay‬
1
9%
Voters: RondoDimBuckle
‪LoRab‬
4
36%
Voters: JaggedJimmyJay, robyn, Thunal33, Michelle
‪Michelle‬
1
9%
Voters: DrWilgy
‪robyn‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪RondoDimBuckle‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪Scotty‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪S~V~S‬
1
9%
Voters: Cape90
‪Thunal33‬
0
No votes
Voters: None
‪ts account‬
0
No votes
Voters: None

2
18%
Voters: Bereft, Roxy
Total votes: 11

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:51 pm Jay i noticed the fact Darling was pocketing you and you said nothing, that means you are convinced he is a villager but I am confused by their solve.

I know you made a wall where you said they're pure
That comes from a meta read?

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:54 pm I am brain sleeping

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:56 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:53 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:51 pm Jay i noticed the fact Darling was pocketing you and you said nothing, that means you are convinced he is a villager but I am confused by their solve.

I know you made a wall where you said they're pure
That comes from a meta read?
It's only barely a meta read in that this is her second game on the site. I hosted the first. She should be interpreted through that lens -- a brand new mafia player. I just think she looks real.
Second game with no other experience of forum mafia/other social deduction games?

I was hoping I wouldn't check on this and find virtually no new Michelle material to explain Abigail's change of heart. However, there is a ton of material, so it's conceivable for that to have been legitimate. Some of Michelle's most important material came during the appropriate window (e.g., suspecting and voting LoRab).

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:10 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:07 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:04 pm I'm more worried about v!J³ voting continuously incorrectly town than people tinfoiling v!J³.

w!J³ I don't give a $%#! about because for dumb reasons he is town.
I have a growing instinct that Scotty is town. What do you think is the most important indicator that he is not?
I thought he was town yesterday after I re-read but the fact that he is gobbldygooked makes me more likely to think he is wolf

I agree with that in a probabilistic sense. I just think he has kind of done a great job under the circumstances of that gobbledygook. He hasn't backed down at all from trying to make a difference, and I think he has seemed as genuine as someone can through a wall of nonsense.

I could be wrong. It's a dangerous vibe read. But I do like the vibe.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:53 am Imagine if Abigail did a reads list...
‪Michelle‬ -

Their play today is town tonally, vibes, frustration , purity, posting.

robyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:07 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:02 pm Bleh. I feel good about my POE, but it is extremely hard to determine who the best vote is within it. My chief concern is that any town flip in that group (especially but not exclusively Michelle) probably encourages the mafia to leave me alive, and then Day 3 is a hot mess of Jay terror.

Need to get this one right to keep the game functioning.
just to show you the light

if it's a town flip, there will be another nonsense kill, and i have control over cape/bereft

i could almost certainly flip you

but that's not how things will go down, i believe you're town and i'll use my iron fist and prevent tinfoil. even though that entire cycle will have to be played on a knifes edge by you taking a particularly good look at me and etc

something something i have faith in you and it's genuine, and you won't have to go in full defend mode d3

Acknowledged.

Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:04 pm I'm more worried about v!J³ voting continuously incorrectly town than people tinfoiling v!J³.

w!J³ I don't give a $%#! about because for dumb reasons he is town.

I have a growing instinct that Scotty is town. What do you think is the most important indicator that he is not?

How do we feel about the possibility of Abigail bussing Michelle?

Bleh. I feel good about my POE, but it is extremely hard to determine who the best vote is within it. My chief concern is that any town flip in that group (especially but not exclusively Michelle) probably encourages the mafia to leave me alive, and then Day 3 is a hot mess of Jay terror.

Need to get this one right to keep the game functioning.

Perhaps robyn is right that Abigail should be in the non-Michelle team. Her arbitrary confidence this evening would need explained.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:54 pm Actually, what would be really helpful to the game. Please everyone here do it:

If Michelle wolf:
who team? x3

If Michelle town:
who team x4?

Of those teams who is most likely to be playing as which are most likely to be which wolf?

A) [Michelle, S~V~S, LoRab, ts account]

B) [S~V~S, LoRab, ts account, Thunal]

Those are my first GTH instincts. B) is much harder for me to answer than A), and in either world I would consider plenty of alternatives.

robyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:54 pm
robyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:52 pm thunal has existed and has scratched a part of my brain that i like getting scratched, same for jjj and bereft too, i am unsure if it's particularly ai because i am an expert at faking mindmelds myself
i want to take her as town basically

I want to. I'm not sure I am prepared to. I do run into some POE snags, I fear, if my team isn't just exactly right. Abigail has done enough to make me ask questions, and that kind of leaves the door open for Thunal.

I hope Michelle is mafia. Most annoying universe will be "Jay's POE is good but Michelle is town", because her town flip would probably obliterate the game state incorrectly.

That likely applies to anyone in my POE going over.

robyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:50 pm also jay, u were wrong, i didn't read squat about cape overnight lol

shhhhhh

Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:48 pm
robyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:44 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:43 pm I also think the current wagons are crap.
who would u go
Ts/scotty/abigail but the thread would revolt.
I dont even know what I mean by thread would revolt.
But it would require coordination on town's end, ergo, the game's actually difficult because its impossible to get good wagons.

Like I don't mind voting LoRab, but as I said, they're completely inactive and its been exactly a dayphase.

If I had to entertain the alternative viewpoint, that is, the Mich/SVS/X/ts worldview, ehhhh. I don't know who the X would be, and that worries me.

Any reason LoRab can't be X?

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:46 pm A big reason I have left cape alone is because I vibe with bereft and Robyn from d1 and again today.

That's probably the right decision. I think I town read Cape more than those two.

Bereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:41 pm Both of us knew the other wasn't playing well.
Not that we cared in the moment.

The key to good wolfplay is having good vibes and no substance, and while I'm not going to lie and say robyn has so much substantive, its way way qualitatively better than the wolfrands Ive seen from them.

And we actually both knew each other was town early EoD1 simply because of mutual interactions. Im not going to go into details but there's a subtle tit-for-tat that just neither of us pulls off as wolf.

Thanks and duly noted. I've been monitoring that tit-for-tat all game long and generally I have vibed with it. I am just trying to be responsible about my town reads.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:36 pm Maybe I am just looking too much into that. Maybe it doesnt matter, a counter wagon is a counter wagon. the choices are still worth reading.

The fun thing (maybe not right now for you, but in due time when we're all flipped and jolly and Christmaslike) is that this vintage Jay town. I tend to get my way. As mafia, "my way" is far more subtle and dictated by thread momentum around me. I don't create as mafia as much as I manipulate. As town, I mold the clay to form and live or die by the results.

This is likely meaningless to you, so ignore me if you like (I would understand). It's just the first time in a while a game has been like this for me, and I am arrogantly amused. I've been mafia too damned much lately.

robyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:36 pm i fake claimed pr for an entire cycle and d2 chop was a 0 poster essentially, he was gonna reevaluate me but yano pr claim and all, and we weren't nearly as close in tacky matrix game, approx 40k dms between that game and this one

at the start of this game i told him to solve without actually saying it explicitly, so he'd be the only person who understood me, smth smth not for cred but it's relevant now

Okay thanks. I will think about it.

BTW, Bereft posted over 300 times in that wolf game. That was over seven cycles, granted, but he certainly posted.

RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 8:33 pm See the thing I hate most about the poll right now. Is the fact that lowrab only exists in counter to michelle because JJJ drummed it up. Same with Seanzie yesterday

Yes, they are both deep in my POE. Let there be no doubt that I have had a hand in both wagons.

I prefer Michelle as today's vote.

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