The Syndicate

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:27 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:06 pmColin looks bad for reasons that are clearly articulated. Noted. The vote stays on Epi for the time being though.
Quick note, this post was during Night 1, hence the "I'll most likely vote you in the morning". So my vote didn't "stay on Epi" unless you mean that the past will never change and he will always be my Fallout Day 1 vote. And we'll just see about that.

i'm dumb

I'm not ISOing Mac. He's got lots of posts and is a confident town read. I may look at him later, but as we're getting close to the end of the day here, my efforts would be better spent elsewhere.

So here's bwt 2.0. I'll stress that I also don't intend to push for his lynch today because, like, lynching the same dude each of the first two days of a game is a huge dick move in bird culture and human culture alike. But I still want to formulate a read on him.

Spoiler: show

It makes sense that bwt2.0 would come in feeling salty toward the dude most responsible for his previous incarnation's mislynch. I don't fault him for getting all up in my business off the bat, even if I think he was misconstruing some things. But I misconstrued his things first, so that's fair.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:02 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:11 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:50 am Colin talk to me about LC and vice versa
I’m lazy, so I’m not going to.
Refusing to respond when requested to do so.

Blaming your Day 1 lynch on other players.

That's a fantastic track record there, sir.

Linki: Either that you were trying to come off as indecisive as a cover for Day 1, or that you were throwing shit at the wall to see what stuck.

He's not a big fan of Colin either.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:15 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:01 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:43 pm This became boring too soon.
Day 1 creature: I don’t like this too boring
Day 2 creature: I don’t like this it got boring
The night 1 kill reads to me as a very active candidate that the mafia team is trying to eliminate. So the stifling worthwhile discussion route might be in play here?

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:16 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:10 pm Okay we’ve got 40some hours here here are the avenues that I think we should be pursuing

Creature
Colin
Sabie
sprityo

As you’ll note I sorted them by the letters their names start with.

To these four — who’s mafia? Give me names.
As far as everyone else goes, out of these four who is the most likely to be town?
I don’t have much time tonight to talk but if anyone has ideas I’ll take em.
My current order from least good to most good:

Colin
Creature
Sabie/sprityo

Seems more mildly opposed to Creature. The extent to which sabie and sprit are "not bad" here is unclear, but he does not seem to favor their lynches right now. Although he does express some qualified support for a sabie lynch later on.

It's too soon to make a clear read on newbirdwithteeth. He's certainly come out swinging, which is a good thing. But it's possible that these reads were festering inside him during his brief stay in the grave, so he could have blurted them out regardless of his alignment on Day 2. Definitely not a lynch priority today, but anything else he can say about any of his reads would be helpful. [mention]birdwithteeth11[/mention] what are the pros and cons of lynching each of Creature and Colin?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:12 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:08 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:01 pm That said don’t feel comfortable with Sloonei switching to Sabie
why not?

my primary motive was to take Creature's rattle away. I don't consider my sabie vote to be anything like a final vote. But I do maintain a light, if somewhat unsubstantiated, suspicion against her. I'll be more confident one way or the other once I've ISO'd her.
Fair. It looked opportunistic to me, allowing for more options to protect against being lynched. But I’ll hold suspicion.

I hold onto my votes very loosely. Nothing is ever final for me until the poll is locked, and most of the time I'm just using it as a tool to sway the discussion one way or another.

this also applies to my brief sprityo vote yesterday.

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:07 pm Will Oreki ever be replaced?

he already has been.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:01 pm That said don’t feel comfortable with Sloonei switching to Sabie

why not?

my primary motive was to take Creature's rattle away. I don't consider my sabie vote to be anything like a final vote. But I do maintain a light, if somewhat unsubstantiated, suspicion against her. I'll be more confident one way or the other once I've ISO'd her.

Long Con ISO time.

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:15 pm I have never played Fallout. I don't have time for video games with all my Mafia-ing.

So we can't discuss what items do. Can we theorize, or perhaps draw references from the game? For instance, a discussion about "is Nuka-Cola a desired item, or dangerous"?

No one brought up the overused "Mafia talk about mechanics early on" argument in this game. But I could apply it to LC here if I squint hard enough.

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:59 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:43 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:35 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:23 pm I have at least two (2) town reads on this page.
Who, and why?
It's more fun if you guess.
Mac and Creature.

He never told us why these two were his guesses.

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:03 pm I don't want to vote Epignosis or Creature. I'll [VOTE: Glorfindel] aubergine because he was too happy to get on the Epi wagon. Plus he needs an avatar.

An early vote for Glorfindel which can all be read as a vote explicitly not for Epi or Creature. Noted.

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:25 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:14 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:12 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:07 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:05 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:23 pm Sloonei playing the sphinx is also nagl.
I don't know your slang.
“Not a good look”, I assume.
Nice... I was going with "not alignment something something". You were being pretty sphinxy,
Indeed I was. What does that mean to you?

Let the record show that my vote somehow landed on you.
Not much yet, but to learn is to grow.

In retrospect, I'm not sure what the point of this exchange was. Maybe LC was testing the waters.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:38 am This Sabie chat from the Jack-Mac attack doesn't lack. I'll slap a vote on the Sabester. [VOTE: Sabie] aubergine

@sprityo Seeing all the votes on one page is not the intended benefit of Aubergine. We're supposed to be able to see all the votes in one search.

Initially on board with the sabie suspicion.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:35 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:33 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:30 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:10 pm Irrelevant Information Retrieved:

Civilian sabie- Lynched Day 2
Civilian sabie - Lynched Day 1
Mafia sabie - Killed Night 1
Civilian sabie - Killed Night 1
Civilian sabie - Killed Night 2
Civilian sabie - Lynched Day 2

Conclusion: Dayum.
Are those sabie's six most recent games?
Affirmative.
That's too ugly for me. I'm unvoting her.

This does not look like an unnatural progression. I could see it as scum LC playing it safe. But I don't have to. I'll lean in his favor here.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:35 pm I'm going to go with a wild gut read and say Epi's fun schtick and dedicated research is a flavourful tryhard smokescreen of deception. [VOTE: Epi] aubergine

If anyone ever manages to travel back in time to the start of the universe, they would find at the moment of creation Long Con and Epignosis tinfoiling each other.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:18 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:11 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:50 am Colin talk to me about LC and vice versa
I’m lazy, so I’m not going to.
Colin already talked about me. I just saw it in his ISO. He says:

1. I'm surfacey, when I'm usually not, and

2. He doesn't like my ratio of content to non-content.

He kind of wanted people to vote for me, but then decided to accuse Jack of the same thing and then later vote sprityo because Epi and sloonei were doing it.

I think Colin looks pretty bad. Good night Westley. Thank you for everything, I'll most likely vote you in the morning.

Colin looks bad for reasons that are clearly articulated. Noted. The vote stays on Epi for the time being though.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:28 pm Well, your points against me are based on completely normal behaviour for me, which tells me that you are mafia, trying to invent a case by necessity. Shrugging off the responsibility for your final Day 1 vote to Epi and sloondog is also sketchy behaviour, buddying them while sheeping.

More stuff on Colin. To say nothing of whether or not I agree, I think LC looks genuine here. Seems like he's bothered by Colin's suspicion and would like him to shove it.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:18 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:01 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:57 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:54 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:45 pm Just so we're all aware of the crucial dynamic at play in the early stages here, this scum role exists:

Once during the game during Phase 0 (no later, if you do not submit the action on time it will be wasted), you may select a player to apprehend and dip. That player will undergo the process of mutation in three stages:

Stage 1: During the day phase following being dipped (Day 1), the player will experience a huge increase in physical size and strength. He or she will be immune to two votes in the poll that day.
Stage 2: During the night phase following being dipped (Night 1), the player will lose command of their emotional and rational faculties, becoming wild and enraged. His or her night action will target randomly, unbeknownst to him or her.
Stage 3: At the start of the day phase following Stage 2 (Day 2), the player will have fully transformed into a supermutant. He or she will be ready to serve The Master as a member of your faction included in your BTSC. That player's original abilities will not be retained
A player who was town on Day 1 will be mafia on Day 2. They did not target BWT because neither of the votes against him would have counted yesterday if that was the case.
I know the person I would pick for this little surprise.

[End Dialogue]
Epignosis...
Did you pick me LC?

1. If I'm bad and picked you, voting you might expose you, which would be counterproductive.
2. Maybe...
3. You'd be a liability! Anyway, I think it would be prudent to consider the way the votes moved around Day 1 to see if any clues can be found on this matter.
4. You'll find out in the morning!

If there's anyone I can see making this post as mafia moments before Epi turns up dead, it's Long Con. That does not mean I think this is the case.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:53 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:26 pm The number of people here that wouldn’t lynch Glor if he said “I am town” but who are voting Creature is interesting.
I would lynch Glorfindel if I suspected he were Mafia. I could lynch Glorf actually. Today. He's operating within a charming schtick that I assume is supported by some sort of JJJ instructional video that I have yet to watch. What a way to keep to the tight and narrow as a baddie. Schtick-and-roadmap, all in one.

I appreciate this healthy skepticism and don't know if this would be a fruitful angle for scum LC to push.

He's turned into a big sabie advocate today based primarily (it seems) on Epi's research into her recent history. The reward for doing this if he's mafia is minimal. Early on in this ISO I could see scum LC if I squinted hard enough. It's becoming increasingly difficult to do that.

His stuff about my rainbow is wrong but I never got the impression he was making up his suspicion. I can buy his tinfoil about a sloonei/sprityo pairing. I think it's counterproductive to be looking for pairings like that without a confirmed flip, but lots of people do it and I don't think his reasoning is totally off base for the approach that he's taking. I don't like the approach though.

Colin still holds a prominent place of suspicion in LC's recent rainbow, but sprit and I hold spots 1 & 2. Colin is #3. I'm interested in how that Colin suspicion has developed, since it seems the Sloonei/sprit suspicion is a joint read, but Colin is more suspicious independently, @Long Con. The @ tag isn't working. Just read all of these words, okay?

Long Con gets a comfortable town read. I'd put him in the second tier on an updated rainbow.

[VOTE: sabie] aubergine so Creature can't spew that nonsense at me anymore.

Now it's your turn to do something, Creature.

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:39 pm
Second, in what instances and in what ways am I being antitown in this game? This is garbage. Cite your sources.
Let me see: fmpov your vote is on town and you're also refusing to do anything else other than voteparking on me. So yeah, I have reasons to believe you're being antitown rn even if not that blatant.

What. Dude. Look at this page. What reality are you existing in where the player called Sloonei isn't doing anything?

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:30 pm no one's doing anything.

Non-joke Jack posts

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:47 pm Lol Creature was my townread too.

Okay. He's talked about his Creature meta read a bit. He did last game too. He was wrong and I disagree with the premise on which he's expressed for town-reading Creature.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:32 pm Epi Creature w/w I see.

I mean, this is probably a joke but I'm including it anyway because

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:42 pm Yeeeeah. Colin is maphier.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:31 pm Sloonei can be maphier too.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:32 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:35 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:31 pm Sloonei can be maphier too.
Colin and sloonei w/w?

I didn't get that vibe when I looked at Colin's vote reasoning. Sheeping and buddying his own teammate?

Why? @ all of these posts.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:29 pm Since I don’t have any reads, I’ll just steal Epi’s.

Jack totally had reads.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:54 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:10 pm Okay we’ve got 40some hours here here are the avenues that I think we should be pursuing

Creature
Colin
Sabie
sprityo

As you’ll note I sorted them by the letters their names start with.

To these four — who’s mafia? Give me names.
As far as everyone else goes, out of these four who is the most likely to be town?
I don’t have much time tonight to talk but if anyone has ideas I’ll take em.
Creature is town. Colin idk. The other two I haven’t interacted with? So also idk.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:49 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:25 pm Why are we all town reading Creature?
He’s outside of his wolf range.

No he's not.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:00 pm [VOTE: ColinisCool] aubergine

Why?

To recap Colin has gone from a suspect to "idk" to vote recipient, all without explanation.

Jack was the one who called my rainbow "the most basic", to which I say

He then also went on a weird tangent about hypocrisy and was yelling at me for some reason:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:29 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:27 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:26 pmYeah that's about the most basic rainbow you could ever have. Not my favorite reaction either.
It's completely formulaic.
I get credit for this cause I called out the Glor/Creature meta hypocrisy.

Spoiler: show
Say the thing, Sloonei.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:57 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:31 pm If you disagree with any of the explanations I gave, say so. If you're going to point at the colorful names and say they don't satisfy you then you're not really doing anything.
Say the thing, you hypocrite.

I have no idea how any of this relates to anything else that was happening in the thread at the moment.

Since then he's raised the question of "who did mafia recruit?"

I can't do a whole lot with Jack's ISO. I think he's objectively wrong to meta-clear Creature. I can't trace his Colin suspicion at all. His vote is on me because my rainbow list wasn't adventurous enough. But I don't know if I see a clear indication anywhere that this is a dishonest performance from Jack. It's been uninspiring so far, but I don't have any clear reason to say that's due to him trying to hide anything or push anything nefarious. If there's a criticism to be made, it's that he's fueling the relatively low activity level of the thread by just farting around. But that's not a very convincing argument. Jack gets the slightest townread possible.

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:25 pm Jay said in his Day 1 training presentation to throw votes around with gay abandon so here you go...

Epi, you’re it! Go!

Glorf's approach to Day 1 was to transparently follow the JJJ Method as much as he could. His first move was to chuck a vote at Epi. He would later explain/follow it up with this:

I threw it at Epi to see how he and everyone would react. I do find his response perplexing. He totally brushed it off (which is perfectly fine because he too, is a highly competent player likely familiar with what I’m doing) but from past experience of him, I think I’d have expected something more umm, confronting/condescending/sarcastic? Then again, it’s been a long time and we’ve probably both mellowed some since then.

I don't object to any of this. One could say that Glorf is waffling, but I don't think that's out of character or indicative of anything bad on his part. Seems more like Glorf's just considering all the possibilities here.

The rest of that post:

Other than that, there’s not that much to go on... Creature seems a little disoriented. TonyStark seems very helpful. Long Con seems his OK, coming at me for reasons that are part silly (me not having an avatar) and part ill-informed (which given my subsequent post explaining my approach to this game he should now not be).

I don't know what is to be made of Creature's seeming disorientation. I also am not sure why the behavior he's describing in Long Con is "OK".

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:29 am
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:44 am Glorfindel seems to be making an effort to follow Jimmy's guide and be like a super civ. Could be an effort to make sure they seem as civ as possible when maybe they aren't.
I ‘seem’ to be making an effort to follow Jay’s guide on how to Town? You aren’t certain of that when I’ve made it crystal clear for everyone to see that that is PRECISELY what I’m doing this game? Interesting Might be time to move my vote...

I can see the sentiment behind this chin-scratch. Sabie's attempt to shade Glorf feels arbitrary and underwhelming here, like she wanted to redirect attention somewhere but couldn't really find a viable route.

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:37 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:25 am Also I don’t like gambling it scares me.
I hear you, my friend but isn’t life a gamble? Every breath you take is a roll of the dice. You can’t know from one minute to the next how things will play out. Sure, you can live under the illusion that you have things under control but do you REALLY? I don’t mean to come off as anyway depressive - I’m just pointing out there’s no need to fear something that is a reality for all of us, all the time.

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:01 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:44 pm Civilian.
Mafia Sabie says in the post that Epi quoted above that she has a lot of experience with JackofHearts and that in that game she thought that he was Town on the basis that he was posting “lots of random stuff” and that when he’s Mafia, he is more “calm and reserved”. I find it interesting that she is making the same reference this game but framing* JackofHearts in the context of the paucity of his posts this game.

*I’ve not used this word in a way that suggests any deliberate attempt to mislead.

sabie12: I’m sorry, I understand your position and I’d hate to mislynch you but please understand that there is no malice at all in my vote on you, I’m simply applying my best judgement to what I’ve read here. I’m open to being convinced otherwise and I would certainly be interested at this stage to hear more from you in respect of your suspicions of JackofHearts.

The thought process feels too genuine here for me to think that this is anything but Civilian Glorfindel. He's apparently carefully studied the differences between town and scum sabie from past games and is applying that knowledge to a particular moment in this game without really pouncing too aggressively on his suspect. A+ post.

The most consistent suspects I see in Glorf's ISO are sabie, Jack, Colin, and Creature. [mention]Glorfindel[/mention] care to talk about those four in more detail? What are your primary concerns about each of them? Can you make an argument for any of them to be civilians?

glorf's town

Creature is up next.

As a side project, I'm gonna keep a running tally of two things during this ISO. First, how many times has Creature complained about the pace/activity level in the game? Second, how many times has Creature done something to help improve the pace/activity level of the game. I'll also do some normal analysis.

Complaints (15):

Spoiler: show

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:12 am Not really liking how this game started

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:38 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:41 am
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:12 am Not really liking how this game started
Tell me about your ideal game-start.
First it wouldn't take a whole day for there to have new posts.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:39 am Even that Better Off Ted game where town flaked to death had a better start than this.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:40 am I think early game activity is pretty determinant to a town victory (see Arrowverse) and the lack of it is usually a bad sign.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:41 am It feels like the most significant case we'll ever get this game is some sort of player salad that obviously is wrong tell af.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:23 pm Wow sabie is such a wise lynch

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:24 pm Town's lack of creativity here is so worrisome

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:27 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:26 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:24 pm Town's lack of creativity here is so worrisome
You don't say.
If sabie is the best they can consider, I am right.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:32 pm Yawn

[VOTE: birthdaywithteeth] aubergine

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:50 pm
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:23 pm Well it's close to end of day so I think my biggest suspicion is on Jack.
This is another lack of creativity.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:50 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:39 pm I don't like lynching anyone 24 hours after the game has started, tbh.
We could wait until it's one hour away from deadline to start solving the game alternatively.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:34 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:12 am Not really liking how this game started

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:43 pm This became boring too soon.

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:56 pm You know, if we keep being this discoordinated it's gonna be pretty easy for the supermutants to pick whatever wagon they want.

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:56 pm and that's what is happening.

Productivity (15):

Spoiler: show

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:05 pm 3. You're scum and we just want to let you know we know that.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:23 pm Sloonei playing the sphinx is also nagl.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:18 pm think I'll just come up with Sloonei as a townread.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:25 pm
Glorfindel wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:14 pm @Sloonei Yes, lots! I agree with most of it to be honest. I don’t know that I’d be quite so keen to pronounce Creature as Town (I’m not saying that I think otherwise, I just don’t think his posts necessarily scream Town as you seem to suggest there). I also find myself contemplating more deeply the prospective alignments of birdwithteeth, Long Con and Sprityo. What really caught my attention though was your comment in respect of JackofHearts and particularly how it aligns to the comments made by Sabie12. I am working under an assumption that you my friend are firm Town for me. I know it’s early in the game but the fact that your view on him matches Sabie’s and that he’s been undeniably ‘thin’ in both the quantity and depths of his posts so far this game are prompting me to consider my vote with more care.
Actually you're somewhat right.

The people townreading me right now is pretty suspicious.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:41 pm
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:44 am As of right now I don't know for sure. I have such a hard time making reads day 1. The exchange between creature and epi was interesting but I thought that about creature and another player before and everyone was like oh that's not weird and they weren't bad so I don't know. Could they be teammates? Maybe but I feel like they wouldn't be that obvious about it.
Ugh, not sure I like this.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:45 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:25 pm I feel mildly good about him his indifference toward my vote for him last night.
Is indifference supposed to be a town tell?

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:06 pm Wolfjack puts more effort I guess, so he can be town

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:10 pm Sloonei's switch to birdwithteeth looks bad now

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:28 pm Any reason to townread Colin?

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:35 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:59 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:43 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:35 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:23 pm I have at least two (2) town reads on this page.
Who, and why?
It's more fun if you guess.
Mac and Creature.
What you all think?

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:28 pm but yeah, I think Colin is scum this game

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:29 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:39 pm Probably not Glorf either.
Definitely not Glorf.

Creature wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:11 pm So did scum plan to push me to save sabie12 now?

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:31 pm Player salad:

Creature - Town
TonyStarkPrime - Town
Sloonei - Scum suspect
MacDougall - Town
Long Con - Town
ColinIsCool - Scum suspect
Glorfindel - Town
Jackofhearts2005 - Probtown
sabie12 - Scum suspect
sprityo - Scum suspect
Oreki - Scum suspect
Dragomir - Scum suspect

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:46 am I'm fine lynching Sloonei considering she's being pretty antitown if town.

So we're actually about even here, though a lot of the "productive" posts are just simple statements of reads. The point is that Creature has expended an inordinate amount of energy telling us that we should be doing better without really offering enough content which is designed to help us do better. I do not think this approach benefits anyone.

As for those reads of his...

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:05 pm 3. You're scum and we just want to let you know we know that.

This post was directed at Epi, and as we now know the initial suspicion was off base. That doesn't mean a whole lot. Playas gotta start somewhere, and an inaccurate read on shticky Epignosis isn't the worst thing in the world. Though I will note that Shticky Epignosis made himself an extremely easy target (probably intentionally) for bad guys looking for low hanging fruit.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:23 pm Sloonei playing the sphinx is also nagl.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:18 pm think I'll just come up with Sloonei as a townread.

I'd like to know why this early progression on my exists. First my "sphinx" approach was "not a good look." Why? Shortly after I was dubbed a civilian. Why?

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:14 pm @Sloonei Yes, lots! I agree with most of it to be honest. I don’t know that I’d be quite so keen to pronounce Creature as Town (I’m not saying that I think otherwise, I just don’t think his posts necessarily scream Town as you seem to suggest there). I also find myself contemplating more deeply the prospective alignments of birdwithteeth, Long Con and Sprityo. What really caught my attention though was your comment in respect of JackofHearts and particularly how it aligns to the comments made by Sabie12. I am working under an assumption that you my friend are firm Town for me. I know it’s early in the game but the fact that your view on him matches Sabie’s and that he’s been undeniably ‘thin’ in both the quantity and depths of his posts so far this game are prompting me to consider my vote with more care.

Actually you're somewhat right.

The people townreading me right now is pretty suspicious.
[/quote]I don't know why this read exists either. I think I spent a large part of Arrowverse begging Creature to explain his reads, but he seldom ever did. He was scum in that game. I've apparently never seen town Creature.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:44 am As of right now I don't know for sure. I have such a hard time making reads day 1. The exchange between creature and epi was interesting but I thought that about creature and another player before and everyone was like oh that's not weird and they weren't bad so I don't know. Could they be teammates? Maybe but I feel like they wouldn't be that obvious about it.

Ugh, not sure I like this.
[/quote]A "not sure I like this" regarding Sabie. I don't know why it exists.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:06 pm Wolfjack puts more effort I guess, so he can be town

A town read on Jack. I actually do know why this one exists.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:28 pm but yeah, I think Colin is scum this game

A scum read on Colin. I'm back to not knowing why things exist.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:31 pm Player salad:

Creature - Town
TonyStarkPrime - Town
Sloonei - Scum suspect
MacDougall - Town
Long Con - Town
ColinIsCool - Scum suspect
Glorfindel - Town
Jackofhearts2005 - Probtown
sabie12 - Scum suspect
sprityo - Scum suspect
Oreki - Scum suspect
Dragomir - Scum suspect

This is not player salad.
Creature's list of suspects are me, colin, sabie, and the inactive/quiet players. So it's basically my "basic rainbow" but with our own two names swapped and Colin thrown into the red pile for... reasons undetermined.

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:46 am I'm fine lynching Sloonei considering she's being pretty antitown if town.

First, I am a red-blooded American male. Second, in what instances and in what ways am I being antitown in this game? This is garbage. Cite your sources.

I've only ever seen scum Creature. It looked a lot like this, but with less complaining about the pace of the game. Because that game was moving at lightspeed. Jack says that Creature has exceeded his scum meta here, but this is an exact replica of what I saw in Arrowverse. A few reads exist here and there, but absolutely none of them are justified. I gave Creature a town read initially because his attitude of "We need to do better" seemed like a brazen start to the game. That town read diminished because he hasn't really done anything else.

Creature's a suspect here, but I am struggling to make a substantial case because there is not much substance in these posts.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:02 pm Linki: Either that you were trying to come off as indecisive as a cover for Day 1, or that you were throwing shit at the wall to see what stuck.

Which is more likely?

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:55 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:11 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:43 pm [VOTE: sprityo] aubergine let's see how this feels
Wait wait wait what I did not see this the first time
I somehow missed this as well. Nice catch.

What does that tell you?

I'm gonna do some ISOs. I begin this exercise having no clue about anything. So far I've only really been able to identify reasons to town read people. Coming up with suspects has been harder than usual. I am apparently a suspect in some eyes for this, but those people obviously aren't doing any better than I am so whatever, good for them. Or they're lying. I don't know.

Colin's name comes first alphabetically, so here's some stuff about him:

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:39 pm Caught up — I really liked Mac's post re: sabie. I also agree that Creature and Mac look like good town people for coming in and stirring things up a little.

I'd like to give sabie a chance to respond and offer an alternative before voting her, though, because while it's not cutthroat, I don't like that list of all the games she got murked in ...

His first game-relevant post. Supports Mac's case on sabie, vaguely town-reads Mac and Creature. Then he walks back the sabie suspicion just a hair. While I would not have disagreed with a word of this post at the time, it is a very safe post. No fresh takes are offered here.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:40 pm The Bird person did not register to me at all on a read through so lemme check that out too.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:41 pm I don't see anything worthy of condemnation in bird's posts.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:18 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:08 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:41 pm I don't see anything worthy of condemnation in bird's posts.
Did you see anything worthy of commendation?
They seemed to be replying to things naturally and not in any way that aroused my suspicion.

Okay. Colin opposed the birdwithteeth suspicion. But did he oppose the birdwithteeth lynch?

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:01 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:31 pm @ColinIsCool besides sabie, is there a player you think deserves suspicion right now?
Long Con, maybe? It seems like he's been kind of ... surfacey, when he usually isn't. That's just the first one to come to my mind.

A vague and tentative suspicion against Long Con. I don't feel like it's clear what Colin sees that is different in LC this game. I don't see him going any further than this anywhere in his posts.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:03 pm Why are we not voting out the no-show? [VOTE: DRAGOMIR] aubergine

A vote for an absentee. Cool. While uninspiring on the surface, I don't think this was an unfair vote on Day 1 in this game. There were no strong suspects. A shot in the dark at a no-show wouldn't have been much different, and we would have saved ourselves the hassle of dealing with an empty player slot.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:17 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:10 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:05 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:03 pm Why are we not voting out the no-show? [VOTE: DRAGOMIR] aubergine

Sloonei wrote:I seem to recall Dragomir had to drop out of two games simultaneously recently because of internet troubles?

Which players are suspicious enough to vote for over a player that's a shot in the dark?
I guess I'd vote Long Con because I don't like his ratio of content : not-content. I don't think others would follow me there though.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:26 pm Jack's ISO is like Long Con's but with an even lower ratio so I can dig it.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:26 pm Especially over Epignosis. What?

[VOTE: JACK] aubergine

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:46 pm [VOTE: SPRITYO] aubergine

Why?

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:13 pm Tbh everything I have to say about Long Con I have said. I don’t think he’s been in since the lynch so it’s the same feeling.

Colin had typed like two sentences about Long Con. That's not a lot.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:42 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:44 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:11 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:50 am Colin talk to me about LC and vice versa
I’m lazy, so I’m not going to.
Also, this post is a bit sketchy. Why wasn't your answer that you already talked about me? Was the case so fake that you forgot to pretend it was real?
I'm poking fun at Mac being a meanie to me. Why are you so obsessed with me?

For the record, this vociferous no-u-ing I'm getting actually makes me feel a little better about LC. His thinking here doesn't make sense but even less so if he's mafia and I'm the hill he wants to die on.

Starts walking back that suspicion.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:58 pm I am anticipating some remark from somebody or another about how I'm not taking this game seriously enough/putting forth an effort/how I'm lazy so let this serve as a sort of lodestar for anyone trying to read me.

I don't have a lot of time to do ISOs and deep dives and things like that anymore. I'm going to sheep and I'm going to probably only post little posts. I post my thoughts as they come to me. I don't think anything through so what you see is pure unadulterated Colin brain activity, for better or worse.

Yesterday's lynch had no suspect I really felt was a slam dunk. With regards to the sabie case, it was solid, but so were all the other ones where I lynched her and I was wrong. I can't read her.

And I'll admit that I also wanted to keep her around because she doesn't get a chance to play, and that's a shame. If that makes me bad, then go ahead and lynch me for it.

Hmmmmmmmm none of this explains why he voted for sprityo, didn't really push for or defend any lynch options, or why he had a background scum read on LC. I believe Colin when he says he's a busy person. It does not tell me anything about his alignment.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:14 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:56 pm And what does it not being day 2 have to do with anything? Is there some duration trigger that needs to expire before I'm allowed to play properly?

Also how does me having bizarre energy manifest in you choosing to ignore me as opposed to scum reading me?

But alas you're probs gonna just ignore these valid points and get town read for it because "civs".
I'm going to ignore your comments to me for the rest of the game because there is no way you're scum if you come in this hot and shit on that lynch yesterday to the extent that you have if you aren't sincere about it. If you are lying, then you're wet blanketing the whole game in a really unnecessary fashion and I wouldn't want to play with you. If you're allowed to not address any concerns about you for the duration, then other people are allowed to ignore things too.

To clarify, by "bizarre energy" I mean that you are obviously mad and I don't really get it. It's like you're only seeing red. Don't know if you got pissed off in another game or something or if something is going on IRL for you but it's not worth me trying to combat so I'm not going to.

I am certain this is bordering on the kind of non-gameplay-conflict-whatever stuff Jay wants to avoid in the thread so I'm not going to continue it further, seriously. The only reason I'm writing this post is because you've brought reads into it and I suppose explaining my thinking once in a while is useful after all.

Colin's exchange with Mac might tell me something about his alignment, though. I feel like Colin is genuinely worked up in some way or another by Mac's aggression toward him, and I feel like his stance here can come from an exasperated civilian. Scum Colin might naturally feel more guilty, and might give Macdougall a longer leash here because he knows that he is right. But town Colin might just want to swat away the buzzing Macsquito in his ear. Maybe. The alternative is that ColinIsScum is just feigning agitation.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:15 pm Sprityo, do you have any suspected Super Mutants?

Pivots back to sprityo.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:36 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:10 pm Okay we’ve got 40some hours here here are the avenues that I think we should be pursuing

Creature
Colin
Sabie
sprityo

As you’ll note I sorted them by the letters their names start with.

To these four — who’s mafia? Give me names.
As far as everyone else goes, out of these four who is the most likely to be town?
I don’t have much time tonight to talk but if anyone has ideas I’ll take em.
To rank that list (worst to best) sabie, Creature, sprityo, Colin. I’m not a huge fan of that list per se.

Outside of that list I don’t think it’s you, Mac, or Long Con. Everyone else is fair game.

Creature is suddenly "worse than sprityo". I do believe this is Colin's first mention of Creature anywhere in this game. He had previously voted for sprit. I'd like to know where this stance came from.
sabie is also worse than both sprit and Creature, which is an interesting development. It could indicate civilian Colin though, as he's been transparently inconsistent with his reads here.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:59 am I’ve been scum with sprityo and he’s a fair amount more calculated. I won’t vote him.

Hey Colin, hey, just a quick question here. Hey. If this is the case then why did you vote for sprit on Day 1?

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:01 am What’s the deal with Creature? I don’t like his take on player salad but I haven’t been pinged so far.

See above.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:45 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:31 am
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:59 am I’ve been scum with sprityo and he’s a fair amount more calculated. I won’t vote him.
Okay, so if not Sloonei, Sprityo, or Creature who’s your target? Or don’t know yet?
Sabie, Jack or Dragomir.

Sabie I do feel sympathy for but she hasn’t done anything since the lynch to indicate being town to me and while the info we’d get might be bunk because Epi pretty much saved her in some peoples’ eyes it’d be more informative than the other two.

Jack I can pretty easily see as a mafioso letting the town pick each other apart in a low activity game. The only thing he has going for him is the rationale that he would have voted as scum which is not really that much.

Dragomir isn’t here (right?) even though I did see them on yesterday so it’d be a lotto drawing but it would give us some more time to establish lines of inquiry against suspects and we don’t have to deal with that slot come endgame.

I dunno, pretty uninspiring takes all around but my sleuthing ain’t what it used to be.

This is the best justification for Jack suspicion that I've seen all game. Jack's MO of late has been to screw around early in games and turn it on a bit later. This game got off to a slow start. Mafia Jack can just fart around all of Days 1 & 2 while town sits on its collective hands and no one will bat an eye, because obviously scum jack would make more of an effort than this.

I have questions and concerns about Colin but also a handful of points that I like. I've decided to do away with the "Scum Colin would be doing more things" argument because we can say the same thing about pretty much everyone in this game so it feels detrimental at this point. See the Jack argument directly above this paragraph.

I'll choose to emphasize the negative points rather than the positive because this game needs some drama to push it forward:
ColinIsCool

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:28 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:26 pm I chose to vote for the player I had the strongest suspicion against.
So you criticize me for not having strong suspicions on Day 1, but then base your own not having strong suspicions on Day 1 as the reason for voting for someone for not having strong suspicions on Day 1?

Wt actual f?

That is not what I criticized the player called birdwithteeth for. I suspected the player called birdwithteeth for making posts that felt light and non-combative. I was wrong about this.

And even if I did suspect you for having no strong suspects while not having any myself:

Spoiler: show

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:21 pm Does anyone have a problem with lynching creature, does anyone have a problem with lynching sloonei, does anyone have a problem lynching Jack?

And why

Epignosis has a problem with lynching sloonei, for one.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:35 am I would recruit Sloonei every day of the week

But I'd be such an obvious choice. I think they'd want to target someone who might be able to keep a lower profile. I base that solely off of how I would play and with no consideration to reality that other people would do it differently.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:35 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:27 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:21 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:17 am That is the correct response from Sloonei though at that time Spirtyo had a solid 7? posts so the counting is off
That's the flavour of why I like sprityo as w/w there.
I continue to dislike the approach which looks for the complete scum team before anyone has actually heen caught. It leads to reads like this.
Not complete... there's a third recruited member now, right?

I suppose so, but the Day 1 team would have only been 2-deep. But this is just semantics: I dislike the strategy of looking for connections before we know anyone is actually bad.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:29 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:27 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:21 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:17 am That is the correct response from Sloonei though at that time Spirtyo had a solid 7? posts so the counting is off
That's the flavour of why I like sprityo as w/w there.
I continue to dislike the approach which looks for the complete scum team before anyone has actually heen caught. It leads to reads like this.
You brought this up earlier in the game in response to Jack being goofy about you and Colin? being w/w.
I agree with it in principle but it seems like you’re only applying it when you’re the one being targeted.

I forget the context in which I brought it up previously. But this is also a grievance that goes back many games. I’ve made a fuss about this in the past.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:21 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:17 am That is the correct response from Sloonei though at that time Spirtyo had a solid 7? posts so the counting is off
That's the flavour of why I like sprityo as w/w there.

I continue to dislike the approach which looks for the complete scum team before anyone has actually heen caught. It leads to reads like this.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:20 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:14 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:02 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:31 pm If you disagree with any of the explanations I gave, say so. If you're going to point at the colorful names and say they don't satisfy you then you're not really doing anything.
You explained the greens. You glossed over the oranges. F this response, I am analyzing you, and you just made me go through your ISO and it only supports the theory.

Linki: this was supposed to be at the start of my last post, but I forgot it in tab-land.
I just meant the explanations in my rainbow post.

The oranges are orange because they haven’t done shit this game. How much analysis am I supposed to put into the like 3 posts they had between them?
Yeah, and they comprised your whole suspicion list. Except for tinfoil-Creature. And sabie.

I got a lot of town vibes on Day 1. Look at that post Mr Stark just brought up.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:02 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:31 pm If you disagree with any of the explanations I gave, say so. If you're going to point at the colorful names and say they don't satisfy you then you're not really doing anything.
You explained the greens. You glossed over the oranges. F this response, I am analyzing you, and you just made me go through your ISO and it only supports the theory.

Linki: this was supposed to be at the start of my last post, but I forgot it in tab-land.

I just meant the explanations in my rainbow post.

The oranges are orange because they haven’t done shit this game. How much analysis am I supposed to put into the like 3 posts they had between them?

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:30 pm ALSO I meant to say that he didn't even mention sprityo at all, despite him being second from the bottom, frankly the MOST suspicious location if you eliminate "tinfoiling", which is as easy as you like.

sprityo is a suspect by virtue of not having done anything to warrant a town read.

If you disagree with any of the explanations I gave, say so. If you're going to point at the colorful names and say they don't satisfy you then you're not really doing anything.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:23 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:41 pm Somewhat impulsive rainbow

TonyStarkPrime
Epignosis
Glorfindel
Long Con
Macdougall
Jackofhearts
ColinIsCool
sabie
Dragomir
Oreki
sprityo
Creature

My general impression from yesterday was that a lot of people did things which indicated Not Mafia to me, hence the big green tier. For Colin and Jack, their "Not Mafia" activities were simply seeming to not be all that bothered by the lynch. I think each of them would have had more to say during the lynch if they were bad. Jack especially.

Mac and Long Con are both in similar positions. Nothing they've done really screams "Town" at me, except that I feel they might be playing a more cautious or calculated game if they were bad. I took a glance at LC's recent scum performance in Zootopia, and I felt as though I could see a player (with my retrospective goggles on) who was very conscious of how his posts would be received before he posted them. Long Con in this game seems like he's just firing from the hip. I'm less confident when it comes to reading Mac than any other prominent Syndicate regular, but I'm gonna lean town in him for now because he brings good energy to the game.

I didn't ultimately vote for sabie and I still feel like the case against her is built on stuff that resembles Regular Sabie, but I've not seen enough to tell me that Regular Sabie and Mafia Sabie are really that far apart. The three names below her have combined to do zilch.

Creature is the name I'm tinfoiling right now. I'm gonna sleep on that a bit before I really dig into him. I've only played with Creature once, very recently. He was town and not drastically different than he has been here. He's had a bolder presence in this game, but I don't know that I feel he's really made anything happen in the game, which is my primary concern.

Ok, so this rainbow. Let's look at everyone who is not green.

We have Drago and Oreki, the two no-shows. Whoop-de-doo. We have sabie12, the most-discussed and most-suspected person in the game, right? Creature as the Proclaimed Tinfoil (so who can judge, and come on, he's rankling everyone with his harsh criticism anyway!)... ad also sprityo. Everyone else green, placated Civs.

Is sprityo your teammate? [VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

He is, I guess that's the game then.

I did other things all day and now i'm exhausted. Good thing we have 48 hours. sorry y'all. I'll do things tomorrow, pinkie swear.

You know now that you mention it, Oreki did use a very suspicious looking font in that one post.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:31 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:18 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:01 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:57 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:54 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:45 pm Just so we're all aware of the crucial dynamic at play in the early stages here, this scum role exists:

Once during the game during Phase 0 (no later, if you do not submit the action on time it will be wasted), you may select a player to apprehend and dip. That player will undergo the process of mutation in three stages:

Stage 1: During the day phase following being dipped (Day 1), the player will experience a huge increase in physical size and strength. He or she will be immune to two votes in the poll that day.
Stage 2: During the night phase following being dipped (Night 1), the player will lose command of their emotional and rational faculties, becoming wild and enraged. His or her night action will target randomly, unbeknownst to him or her.
Stage 3: At the start of the day phase following Stage 2 (Day 2), the player will have fully transformed into a supermutant. He or she will be ready to serve The Master as a member of your faction included in your BTSC. That player's original abilities will not be retained
A player who was town on Day 1 will be mafia on Day 2. They did not target BWT because neither of the votes against him would have counted yesterday if that was the case.
I know the person I would pick for this little surprise.

[End Dialogue]
Epignosis...
Did you pick me LC?

1. If I'm bad and picked you, voting you might expose you, which would be counterproductive.
2. Maybe...
3. You'd be a liability! Anyway, I think it would be prudent to consider the way the votes moved around Day 1 to see if any clues can be found on this matter.
4. You'll find out in the morning!
my strange take on this is that no mafioso would post this with half an hour before the revelation that Epi had died.

Overall conclusion: He's town.

Honestly, he might.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:35 pm
Glorfindel wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:22 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:02 pm Nobody wants to discuss the elephant in the room?
I don’t have any strong recollection of Sabie from the games that I may have played with her long ago. Do you really believe that she (as Mafia) would use real life as an excuse to avoid scrutiny here? I’ll confess, Epi’s post kinda put me off voting her. I can understand how someone who frequently gets mis-lynched early in these games feels. Personally, I’m in two minds about her. I get real life is getting in the way for her but I don’t really think the pace of this game is necessarily that bad... it would be nice to see a little more from her.
Okay I'll change my angle on Sabie.

Maybe she is not inherently mafia for what I am accusing her of.

But is she a civ?

Because right now I am civ reading almost everyone (LC, Sloonei, Creature, TSP, Jack, you, even townpinged by Colin now) and the other option is lynching a no show over her because we feel sorry for her for getting lynched and killed a lot.

So in my view the question is;

Functional, useful, info gather Sabie lynch, or
Lynching one of the no shows

I'm going to leave it up to the board of directors here because apparently I am "angry" and emitting a "bizarre energy" or some shit.

This is more in line with my own thoughts on sabie. I don't outright suspect her for her Day 1 behavior, but I don't townread her at all either. In the absence of that, she becomes a suspect because of the unusually high number of players I am able to town read at this stage. A Day 2 no-show lynch feels underwhelming but I don't oppose it on principle if nothing better comes up.

I don't have many fully formed thoughts at the moment. I'll do my homework tomorrow.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:31 pm
Glorfindel wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:22 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:02 pm Nobody wants to discuss the elephant in the room?
I don’t have any strong recollection of Sabie from the games that I may have played with her long ago. Do you really believe that she (as Mafia) would use real life as an excuse to avoid scrutiny here? I’ll confess, Epi’s post kinda put me off voting her. I can understand how someone who frequently gets mis-lynched early in these games feels. Personally, I’m in two minds about her. I get real life is getting in the way for her but I don’t really think the pace of this game is necessarily that bad... it would be nice to see a little more from her.
Not that elephant, the Dragomir and Oreki shaped one.

Where's Professional Replacement speedchuck when you need him?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:02 pm Nobody wants to discuss the elephant in the room?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:49 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:25 pm Why are we all town reading Creature?
He’s outside of his wolf range.

Elaborate

Why are we all town reading Creature?

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:39 pm Probably not Glorf either.

Why is Sloonei fair game? Why is Glorf not?

But also I did not realize we had 48 hours. That’s a relief. Let’s not squander this bonus time.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:10 pm Okay we’ve got 40some hours here here are the avenues that I think we should be pursuing

Creature
Colin
Sabie
sprityo

As you’ll note I sorted them by the letters their names start with.

To these four — who’s mafia? Give me names.
As far as everyone else goes, out of these four who is the most likely to be town?
I don’t have much time tonight to talk but if anyone has ideas I’ll take em.

I’d put Colin as my top town read in the bunch. I think I’ll do a trustfall later when I have more mental energy.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:49 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:48 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:46 pm Is it player salad or is there a new null tell I'm unaware of?
You keep mentioning player salad and I have no idea why.
I'm still salty I got mislynched over this tell and that tell is still used as a credible tell.

I’ve seen no one else bring it up this game.

It can be a credible tell.

Go find bad guys.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:49 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:41 pm I've only played with Creature once, very recently. He was town
Arrowverse (scum) or Better Off Ted (town) or have we actually met offsite?

... why did I remember you being town in arrowverse? Never mind, you were scum.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:46 pm Is it player salad or is there a new null tell I'm unaware of?

You keep mentioning player salad and I have no idea why.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:43 pm This became boring too soon.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:29 pm Since I don’t have any reads, I’ll just steal Epi’s.

Who’s this guy?

Epi feels like an aggressive night 1 kill. These mafiers didn’t care about the potential for night actions stopping them and they weren’t waiting around to take down a big target.

Idk what to do with this information, but I’m putting it out there.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine until he convinces me there’s a more deserving recipient.

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:17 pm @Sloonei Thank you for your updated reads list, my friend. I’ve read through your update and it seems mostly fine. I’ll admit, your rationale for Town reading JackofHearts is at odds to my ‘feel’ of his alignment but it makes sense to me. From my recollection, Oreki has but a single post. Is your read of him based on his absence or the fact that he promised input and more than 24 hours later has not delivered? Lastly, you have Epi as your second highest Townie. I’m not saying that I necessarily disagree with you but can you elaborate for me please about what he’s done to deserve such a lofty position on your reads list? Thanks

I re-read Epi’s posts while asking myself if they appeared to reflect a genuine effort to move the game forward. I was able to answer “yes” on pretty much all of his posts.

Linki: well there you go

Mac’s town

Just so we're all aware of the crucial dynamic at play in the early stages here, this scum role exists:

Once during the game during Phase 0 (no later, if you do not submit the action on time it will be wasted), you may select a player to apprehend and dip. That player will undergo the process of mutation in three stages:

Stage 1: During the day phase following being dipped (Day 1), the player will experience a huge increase in physical size and strength. He or she will be immune to two votes in the poll that day.
Stage 2: During the night phase following being dipped (Night 1), the player will lose command of their emotional and rational faculties, becoming wild and enraged. His or her night action will target randomly, unbeknownst to him or her.
Stage 3: At the start of the day phase following Stage 2 (Day 2), the player will have fully transformed into a supermutant. He or she will be ready to serve The Master as a member of your faction included in your BTSC. That player's original abilities will not be retained

A player who was town on Day 1 will be mafia on Day 2. They did not target BWT because neither of the votes against him would have counted yesterday if that was the case.

Somewhat impulsive rainbow

TonyStarkPrime
Epignosis
Glorfindel
Long Con
Macdougall
Jackofhearts
ColinIsCool
sabie
Dragomir
Oreki
sprityo
Creature

My general impression from yesterday was that a lot of people did things which indicated Not Mafia to me, hence the big green tier. For Colin and Jack, their "Not Mafia" activities were simply seeming to not be all that bothered by the lynch. I think each of them would have had more to say during the lynch if they were bad. Jack especially.

Mac and Long Con are both in similar positions. Nothing they've done really screams "Town" at me, except that I feel they might be playing a more cautious or calculated game if they were bad. I took a glance at LC's recent scum performance in Zootopia, and I felt as though I could see a player (with my retrospective goggles on) who was very conscious of how his posts would be received before he posted them. Long Con in this game seems like he's just firing from the hip. I'm less confident when it comes to reading Mac than any other prominent Syndicate regular, but I'm gonna lean town in him for now because he brings good energy to the game.

I didn't ultimately vote for sabie and I still feel like the case against her is built on stuff that resembles Regular Sabie, but I've not seen enough to tell me that Regular Sabie and Mafia Sabie are really that far apart. The three names below her have combined to do zilch.

Creature is the name I'm tinfoiling right now. I'm gonna sleep on that a bit before I really dig into him. I've only played with Creature once, very recently. He was town and not drastically different than he has been here. He's had a bolder presence in this game, but I don't know that I feel he's really made anything happen in the game, which is my primary concern.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:40 am I think early game activity is pretty determinant to a town victory (see Arrowverse) and the lack of it is usually a bad sign.

What sort of early game activity do you like to see, Creature? How does a town achieve a successful start to the game from an activity standpoint?

As always, I recommend we catch a bad guy before we start trying to establish the full scum team in one swoop.

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