The Syndicate

We did

I felt like the remnant played very well in this game. Timmer and Bob were so hard to read as Mafia in the end I had my own POE and that's the only reason I figured them out. DDL got stitched up by info. TH killed n1.

It's okay LC. I only win games as Mafia when they are unbalanced in my favour. I get it. Nobody is a sore loser.

Oi thanks for including tentacle slap in the last host post btw

Damn Long Con just revealed dat game and bounced eh?

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:42 am Was Tranq killed just because he was in-range of a Remnant and seemed civ? He was our ace in the hole, we figured everyone would die and it would leave him to try to win.

Pretty well. Seems like they just kept me alive for days because they needed me alive in the thread to keep the heat off them while they picked off civs.

In fairness to dipshit Enrique, Speedchuck actually killed G-Man not Kyle. So you probably should apologise to Enrique for calling him a dipshit.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:53 pm MacDougall has a vested interest because he is bad with a team. Even though he has no win condition, he's bad. He's trying to keep his team going. Admirable.

speedchuck fucked up. I don't care what he says. He killed Kylemii (not G-Man, dipshit Enrique).

Sorsha is bad too.

Lynch all of them and have a merry Christmas.

But you all won't do that.

You'll hem and haw over other shit.

And lose.

Thanks J.

I probably could have done without also having the power to see where everyone is on water squares in addition to hectic speed and negative votes. The water reports were how I determined Bob and Timmer's guilt.

When I got my role card it honestly never occurred to me that the role was OP. Nobody pointed at it in the role list as OP before or during the game either and all the roles were revealed. I never felt like this impervious super role at any stage even up until the final flip.

I'm not completely arrogant to the fact that a -5 vote having Mafia role is hard. But this is as role madness as it gets. I could have just as easily been night killed on night one as won with it making the role look stupid OP.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:24 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:18 am I just wonder if we had have lost if anyone would be telling me we lost the unloseable or some bullshit. The obvious answer being of course not.
Like I said I didn't want to crap on your win. Trust me it was super frustrating to have you convince town to not lynch speedchuck after he was outed. You played yourself a heck of a game and deserved this win.

The civvies got blasted out of the game by you guys. By the time everything was clear there weren't enough to really collaborate as a town core. Quin really helped me immensely as did Tranq randomly going from civ to Blade. Tranq still had a bit of civ spirit about him at that time and it was sapped. It also wasn't probably in LCs head that we would use Speedchuck's silencer more as a vote removal than a silencer. The game became something unmafia.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:29 am I think it's more like if Mac's role didn't exist, civs would have a 90% chance of winning, due to SVS's role being immortal. But since Mac's role countered SVS, his faction had 90% chance of winning instead.

Those two roles defined the game just be existing.

You guys would have walked it in if I didn't have a spreadsheet and did some legit scum hunting to determine CBob and Timmer were bad.

You would have probably won if Timmer didn't quit too. Speedchuck would have got lynched before him and it would have changed the dynamic.

Town could have lynched me on heaps of days and knew I was Kraken as well.

They also all had the benefit of knowing Kraken existed. Here's me clearly stalling for time. Nobody wondered why?

I took more advantage of dispirited civilians than my role.

I just wonder if we had have lost if anyone would be telling me we lost the unloseable or some bullshit. The obvious answer being of course not.

Wow well done man

Epi revealed the entire Mafia team and the Mafia team won anyway - It's the setups fault, not the fault of literally the entire remaining players who abjectly refused to win the game.

I take pride in playing this game well and felt like this win was very hard earned. You are taking that feeling away. Of course I am going to be pissed off about that.

Saying the role I had was invincible makes me feel like all of the effort I put in was worthless and there is nothing worse than being made to feel like your effort is not valued.

Also thanks Bob and DharmaHelper for choosing us to win instead of the civilians lol.

Also thanks Tranq and Juliets for staying by our side for days after you died. Speedchuck for fighting through near death to stay around for so long. Sorsha despite rage quitting you were a great teammate too.

Anyway thanks Quin.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:56 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:50 am I am only engaging in this debate because I was literally in this role and at no point until the end game did I ever feel overpowered.
You don't have to feel overpowered for your role to be overpowered.

It was overpowered.

I outed you and your entire team...and you still won. In a game (Mafia) in which the entire point is to figure out who is bad, someone comes in and say who half the bad guys are, and they win...how do you not have an overpowered role?

I personally didn't like my role. I hated being The Darkness, and then I kept changing win conditions (You want to complain about having no win condition? I had no win condition. Mine kept changing every two fucking phases). Then I got stuck latched on to winning with the civilians who had no chance because there weren't enough to lynch you at any point, AND (!) I had to be dead, which further meant I couldn't win.

There was no universe in which I could win. None. Zero. If the author would like to paint one, I'm willing to listen, but I had zero chance from the beginning.

So don't complain about your circumstances just because you felt you had to work to win. At least you had a chance to work.

I don't mean to sound like I am complaining about my circumstances. I am not saying that I had it more difficult than others. I am telling you from the person sitting in this role seat that it was not as easy as you dreamed of it being. Especially after having to navigate being literally a revealed Mafia for several phases when there were easily more than enough people to lynch me. The game mechanics caused that outcome btw. Not just your whim. The game literally handed you that information. There were many mechanics built into this game to deal with the strength of our faction.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:58 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:51 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:50 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:48 am Every single day there was random map movements, night actions, kills, vote manipulation, day actions, items, portals, night polls that create cataclysms, interactive dungeon master host bullshit. Of course there are an insane amount of potential scenarios.
All of which civilians had to deal with too.

Civilians were fucked.
I just don't agree with, nor appreciate the idea that this game was easy for me lol.
It may not have been easy for you.

It was easy for your role.

This is quite mean dude. If you can't see how what you are saying is mean spirited and rude to me perhaps you should just take it as given from the person on the receiving end of it and rethink how you are raising these concerns of yours. As soon as the game ended you started shitting on the victory, didn't even give us a chance to be happy about winning what was an extremely challenging game before you rained on the parade. That's not nice at all. Perhaps rather than shitting all over it publicly you could have addressed these concerns with Long Con more constructively.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:50 am If Long Con hadn't accidentally revealed my identity I wouldn't have told DDL/Jack fuck all when I met them. Instead I told Jack, DDL, and by proxy DDL's whole team how to recruit me and where to find the pieces, which ultimately led to Enrique getting clapped on.

So if I had shut my mouth I would have been recruited by Enrique and had zero motivation to let Mac skate (but also zero way to stop him once the numbers dipped)

There were four players alive at the end of the game I basically couldn't kill. That two of you had spent the previous several phases trying to help me without even being factionally aligned with me was a matter out of my control.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:50 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:48 am Every single day there was random map movements, night actions, kills, vote manipulation, day actions, items, portals, night polls that create cataclysms, interactive dungeon master host bullshit. Of course there are an insane amount of potential scenarios.
All of which civilians had to deal with too.

Civilians were fucked.

I just don't agree with, nor appreciate the idea that this game was easy for me lol.

I am only engaging in this debate because I was literally in this role and at no point until the end game did I ever feel overpowered.

Every single day there was random map movements, night actions, kills, vote manipulation, day actions, items, portals, night polls that create cataclysms, interactive dungeon master host bullshit. Of course there are an insane amount of potential scenarios.

At the end of the last game I was furious because Golden basically played the entire game as a civilian and then got recruited into a Mafia team that was already coasting to victory so got to pick up a win as a result of being fooled. The nature of the LC game. Few people go home happy.

Yeah but that's literally not true. It was only 8 people because I had allies.

The Kraken role is literally known to exist. It's an open non secret role. There were all sorts of roles, huge amounts of BTSC, abilities for people to see who is moving around the map. If people had their shit together they'd have made identifying the kraken a sub plot of the game. There was more than enough at the disposal of the other 30 odd players in the game to work around a Mafia player with -5 votes notwithstanding that there were also several Mafia killed in this game and I had no way of protecting myself at night.

I wouldn't throw my toys out of the pram at all. This is a game with an insane amount of potential scenarios. If by the end of the game it seemed like my role was OP it was because of the paths taken to get here. There are innumerable outcomes that result in my demise.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:33 am Part of my role was that I saw the secrets/curses associated with items that I found and I found exactly zero items.

There were secrets and curses associated with items?

I could have been easily lynched several times had Quin and the other Mafia team not decided to help us win.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:32 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:30 am Epi don't poo on our win.
I'm not. I already said this. I'm criticizing the setup.

You're basically saying that I shouldn't have even bothered to make any real effort and still would have won, which ... I hope isn't true.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:30 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:29 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:26 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:22 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am

This in the beginning crippled any hope the civilians could have possibly had from the outset.

Why make a mafia member all but immune to lynches?
There were days I was a revealed member of Mafia, with my role known, that I could have been lynched and wasn't. I was also within the kill range of Mafia many many times.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:14 am Oh and also it seemed to have got balanced by the fact that our entire team got infodumped so what does it matter.
You sound like I'm accusing you.

I'm not.

I'm saying it's a badly written role for anybody to have (especially mafia).

Nobody should ever have -5 votes- especially mafia.

The fact that I outed your entire team and you still won should demonstrate that.
I am just saying that there were many opportunities for me to be killed or lynched that were not taken. My role didn't make me impervious to death which means that the in game mechanics only served to make me a difficult mafioso to contend with rather than an impossible one. I should have been lynched as soon as DharmaHelper noticed I was the Kraken.

Also it's not as though it was "oh I have -5 votes this game is gonna be easy". I ended up having to make 950 posts to get the job done. It was a slog.
I don't mean that- what I mean is that once a mafia member is "caught," that mafia member should be able to be removed via the lynch poll.

That was never going to happen, because it meant needing 5(!) more voters on you than someone else in a given lynch. Yes, you could have been killed, but how many people ventured near the water knowing the Kraken was there? I went to the water one time in the very beginning and that was it.

You are almost impossible to lynch, especially as the civilians numbers dropped and the independents had the run of the show. There was no way for you to lose.

Have civilians ever won one of these "A World" games by the way? I know the Circle of Decay won last time. I don't know about games on other sites.
I was in kill range of members of the other team at least 5 or 6 times.
Doesn't negate my point. Most civilians don't have a kill.

Civilians shouldn't have to depend on mafia eliminating mafia to win.

There were two civilians roles that I basically couldn't find so couldn't kill at all along with two indies I couldn't kill and a Mafia member I couldn't kill. Everyone has their gripes.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:30 am If the next game is LMS with six or more maps and utter chaos every phase I'll play.

Just play U-Pick

Epi don't poo on our win.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:26 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:22 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:08 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:48 am Was this MacDougall's actual role?

Kraken - Movement rate of 6 in the water, and 1 on land. Can still move 1 land square after 4 water squares. Knows who is in any square containing water, and has -5 votes while he is in the water.
Yeah it was.
This in the beginning crippled any hope the civilians could have possibly had from the outset.

Why make a mafia member all but immune to lynches?
There were days I was a revealed member of Mafia, with my role known, that I could have been lynched and wasn't. I was also within the kill range of Mafia many many times.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:14 am Oh and also it seemed to have got balanced by the fact that our entire team got infodumped so what does it matter.
You sound like I'm accusing you.

I'm not.

I'm saying it's a badly written role for anybody to have (especially mafia).

Nobody should ever have -5 votes- especially mafia.

The fact that I outed your entire team and you still won should demonstrate that.
I am just saying that there were many opportunities for me to be killed or lynched that were not taken. My role didn't make me impervious to death which means that the in game mechanics only served to make me a difficult mafioso to contend with rather than an impossible one. I should have been lynched as soon as DharmaHelper noticed I was the Kraken.

Also it's not as though it was "oh I have -5 votes this game is gonna be easy". I ended up having to make 950 posts to get the job done. It was a slog.
I don't mean that- what I mean is that once a mafia member is "caught," that mafia member should be able to be removed via the lynch poll.

That was never going to happen, because it meant needing 5(!) more voters on you than someone else in a given lynch. Yes, you could have been killed, but how many people ventured near the water knowing the Kraken was there? I went to the water one time in the very beginning and that was it.

You are almost impossible to lynch, especially as the civilians numbers dropped and the independents had the run of the show. There was no way for you to lose.

Have civilians ever won one of these "A World" games by the way? I know the Circle of Decay won last time. I don't know about games on other sites.

I was in kill range of members of the other team at least 5 or 6 times.

wolbre04 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:33 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:32 am Hahahaha holy shit...

CFD Wolbre?
Do it bitch

We killed TH, then we rezzed TH.

I can't wait to read the epic summary Long Con is about to drop on us

[mention]insertnamehere[/mention] get on it

I am undefeated at The Genius. Bring it on.

I rezzed TH.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:08 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:48 am Was this MacDougall's actual role?

Kraken - Movement rate of 6 in the water, and 1 on land. Can still move 1 land square after 4 water squares. Knows who is in any square containing water, and has -5 votes while he is in the water.
Yeah it was.
This in the beginning crippled any hope the civilians could have possibly had from the outset.

Why make a mafia member all but immune to lynches?
There were days I was a revealed member of Mafia, with my role known, that I could have been lynched and wasn't. I was also within the kill range of Mafia many many times.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:14 am Oh and also it seemed to have got balanced by the fact that our entire team got infodumped so what does it matter.
You sound like I'm accusing you.

I'm not.

I'm saying it's a badly written role for anybody to have (especially mafia).

Nobody should ever have -5 votes- especially mafia.

The fact that I outed your entire team and you still won should demonstrate that.

I am just saying that there were many opportunities for me to be killed or lynched that were not taken. My role didn't make me impervious to death which means that the in game mechanics only served to make me a difficult mafioso to contend with rather than an impossible one. I should have been lynched as soon as DharmaHelper noticed I was the Kraken.

Also it's not as though it was "oh I have -5 votes this game is gonna be easy". I ended up having to make 950 posts to get the job done. It was a slog.

This was more of a political strategy game than a Mafia game to me (after we got dunked on anyway). It was alliances that got us over the line in the end.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 am IIRC Cbob and I were like "Well if we kill Mac the civs will just dunk on us right after." We were hoping you'd not be a dingus and kill a civ instead of bashing your head against the unkillables.

I didn't realise that Bob's role allowed him to charge the item up every night. Oops.

Oh and also it seemed to have got balanced by the fact that our entire team got infodumped so what does it matter.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:08 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:48 am Was this MacDougall's actual role?

Kraken - Movement rate of 6 in the water, and 1 on land. Can still move 1 land square after 4 water squares. Knows who is in any square containing water, and has -5 votes while he is in the water.
Yeah it was.
This in the beginning crippled any hope the civilians could have possibly had from the outset.

Why make a mafia member all but immune to lynches?

There were days I was a revealed member of Mafia, with my role known, that I could have been lynched and wasn't. I was also within the kill range of Mafia many many times.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:05 am Damn! I thought the remnant had a real shot there. Grats Mac and crew, Mac that was a hell of a game for an outted baddie to win.

There was a lot of luck (finding a rezz item, finding a portal, finding an oracle that told me shit, tranq randomly joining our team, killing you on night one). Also a lot of help from DH, Bob and Quin (love you Quin). But also there was a looooot of effort and a lot of fucked up shit that we had to overcome (having our entire team outed, slipping my role, Sorsha rage quitting, Speedchuck getting sick, Juliets getting night killed, Tranq getting killed).

Still a lot of things happened to get us this win that I can't even rationalise. I have no idea how I survived some of those days and nights or why.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:48 am Was this MacDougall's actual role?

Kraken - Movement rate of 6 in the water, and 1 on land. Can still move 1 land square after 4 water squares. Knows who is in any square containing water, and has -5 votes while he is in the water.

Yeah it was.

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