The Syndicate

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:03 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:01 pm @staypositivefriend, how did the night actions go?

i got a beautiful, tear-jerking letter from dizzy

peepeepoopoo

Gg, all!

@iaafr I do believe I read your posts. However, I have a habit of interacting more with people I disagree with than not when pressed for time. Our worldview was spot on though, nice job.

@leetic I'm sorry that I got angry at you in the game. I'm well impressed with all the work you put in and how you organised town. Well played!!

Also, this game proves I should just not play D1, read it on D2 and catch all the scum.
Cause no chance that could ever go wrong in the future.

Thank you, TSP

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:23 pm I kinda want to chop anne now. And here's why:


I think that Mac is more likely a bus attempt than Jay. Jay had taken heat on Day 1, but he wasn't truly in danger until the final hour of the day, so any wolves who bussed him would have had to be active at EOD. I've already analyzed the EOD1, and concluded that everyone on Jay's wagon is likely town. NAA I thought was possible scum, but that is now wrong. I think SPF has slight potential, but unlikely. Everyone else there is town.

Mac had a role that, upon death, would take a villager down with him. Of all the wolves to bus, his was probably the optimal one. DrWilgy and anne are the two players who were not on Jay's wagon who are on MacDougall's wagon.


I also think that if anne is a wolf, it clears nutella. esooa being a wolf doesn't really clear anyone. She still could be, I'm just trying to think ahead too.

Lol timing. This is my last post also.

I checked to see, and Wilgy was not around for EoD1. He also stated a preference for Anne and voted her as his last post D1, with no reason attached. The only mention of Anne before that was "Ising the avoiding of Anne" which I don't know what means.

I could definitely see that Anne was the intended bus target for D1, and then Jimmay got run up instead. I also agree that all Jimmay voters on D1 are town. And I also agree that Mac was bussed.

Again, I'd be willing to flip all three. Would be unfortunate if Anne is somehow town and it would cause some players to freak out. I don't think I can rule out a pairing of the three either, though I haven't really tried.

So actually, I'll change my vote back to Anne. But I won't be upset if Esooa is chopped instead. I'd also vote Wilgy for the record. I wish we had a triple chop and could just end this nonsense. Should've probably spent even more time figuring out who I think is the most likely town between my PoE. I'll leave my vote on Anne again and I trust you all to have good judgement when I'm sleeping, cause that has worked so far.

I don't really think we need a flip that clears anyone today though.

Fine, I'll be one of the cool ones

[VOTE: Esooa] aubergine

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:14 pm Here's a fun wagon-coloring thing


DAY 1

7 - JaggedJimmyJay --- leetic, Marmot, Lime Coke, cassandra, staypositivefriend, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, NotAnAxehole
5 - anne --- Master Radishes, falcon45ca, JaggedJimmyJay, nutella, DrWilgy
2 - DrWilgy --- ilario, iaafr
1 - Dyslexicon --- MacDougall
1 - NotAnAxehole --- anne
1 - sleep --- Dyslexicon

No Vote --- Sloonei/Esooa


DAY 2


5 - MacDougall --- Marmot, anne, Lime Coke, DrWilgy, staypositivefriend
5 - anne --- cassandra, iaafr, nutella, Dyslexicon, NotAnAxehole
2 - Esooa --- Esooa, leetic
1 - iaafr --- ilario
1 - NotAnAxehole --- MacDougall
1 - nutella --- falcon45ca



We should probably continue the trend of having anne's wagon be an entirely new set of voters with the exception of nutella.

Hm. But what if it's Esooa/Wilgy and Anne actually was a real cw on D1?
But why has Anne stopped solving?

Also, before I go

Ok, I'm going to bed. Read Marmot's Esooa/Mac interaction thing, and yeah, I support Esooa chop. Still going to vote Anne because I want to be accused of desperately trying to save my teammate by voting a cw if Esooa flips wolf.

Most important things from my perspective:
- I'm convinced Nutella is town.
- All of Anne's voters D2 were town actually.
- Anyone can follow up my questions to Wilgy and Anne if they cared.

Gl gl. I'll make sure to use my action tonight as per Leetic's request.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:16 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:14 pm I'm going to sleep at some point, and definitely won't be here for EoD as usual. Will probably leave my vote on Anne, but I'm ok with any chop between Anne, Wilgy and Esooa. This is my firm PoE. Would be kind of funny to leave my vote on Anne all the time, have her not be chopped and see her flip mafia in the end and be vindicated. I don't know which one between the three is town. I have a hard time seeing anyone else as scum here, and would need a really convincing case for me to want anyone else chopped above those three.

If anyone have more concerns about my alignment and stuff, please be specific about it and I'll try not to snap lol. I think I have like six posts before I'm capped.

How are you so gay?

I don't know, I'm just lucky ig

I'm going to sleep at some point, and definitely won't be here for EoD as usual. Will probably leave my vote on Anne, but I'm ok with any chop between Anne, Wilgy and Esooa. This is my firm PoE. Would be kind of funny to leave my vote on Anne all the time, have her not be chopped and see her flip mafia in the end and be vindicated. I don't know which one between the three is town. I have a hard time seeing anyone else as scum here, and would need a really convincing case for me to want anyone else chopped above those three.

If anyone have more concerns about my alignment and stuff, please be specific about it and I'll try not to snap lol. I think I have like six posts before I'm capped.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:08 pm I have read all of nutella's posts and concluded she is not gay

How dare you

Everyone is gay

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:12 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:11 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:09 pm I say that I'm trying to stop being toxic and actually try to do so, people just see it as a reason to beat on me and never actually help me.

What do you want help with?

I don't fucking know at this rate. I fucking hate this.

Alright, I'm sorry about that. It's natural hating it when you play a game of mafia tbh. Don't get down on yourself. You've helped chop two scum already and that's great.

I can't really help you if you don't know. But I think me and others have tried explain our view of why for example Nutella is town and why I am town (in our eyes). And I'm trying to really question why Anne is cleared for you. I've talked about it quite a bit actually. It's fine if we disagree in the end, though I still feel you be quite resistant to even looking at ideas that are outside what you originally had thought. It's better if you talk it out when or if you feel like it, cause it's not really about you or whoever else to solve the game by themselves.

I also don't think you need to be very worried at this point.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:09 pm I say that I'm trying to stop being toxic and actually try to do so, people just see it as a reason to beat on me and never actually help me.

What do you want help with?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:06 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:02 pm Where's your head at Lime Coke? You do seem really uncomfortable today compared to Day 1. Is that normal for you?

I had a huge hand in yeeting 2 mafia in a row. Both of them pretty big fucking names. No one wants to listen to me still and just want to fuck with me. You wonder why I'm not feeling great right now?

Literally having my best game right now and I can't fucking enjoy it.

But it's not just others who needs to listen to you, you need to listen to others too. I'm definitely listening to you, and I'm trying to show you why what you're saying about Anne is false. She didn't actually solve Mac. She had him at the top half of her read list, talked about Falcon mostly and about the claim, and when EoD came she suddenly voted Mac without ever explaining why. That is not solving in my eyes. Do you disagree with that? It's great that you helped chop two scum, but that doesn't mean you're correct right now. That's just a fallacy.

@lime coke Anne voted Mac 45 minutes before EoD. She hadn't talked about Mac at all in many posts and for a long time when that happened. She made the below read list and talked a bit about Falcon/Mac claim and what one flipping would mean for the other and mech and stuff 12 hours before this point. But it was not really solving Mac, and it certainly was not her solving that lead the Mac chop, regardless of her alignment. She never even explained why she voted Mac. She just did and asked people to sheep her and to get Mac.

Look at the actual thing that happened please.

anne wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:16 pm Ilario/Leetic
LimeCoke
Cassandra
Marmot
Mac
Dizzy
Falcon
SPF
iaafr
NAA
Nutella
Wigly

Not putting Esooa on the list because I haven't read a single one of her posts or Sloonei's posts.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:51 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:48 pm Honestly, I see your point Lime. Probably more so for Esooa. But what I also see is that neither or Esooa's or Anne's solving has been strong at all. Not only strong, it hasn't been towny.

Anne's solving lead to a scum!Mac yeet.

It did not. A lot of people had Mac on their radar. Wasn't Anne on that quite late? SPF pushed Mac, as had Ilario done all day.

Honestly, I see your point Lime. Probably more so for Esooa. But what I also see is that neither or Esooa's or Anne's solving has been strong at all. Not only strong, it hasn't been towny.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:39 pm I really just want to kill nutella here but Alexa dying townreading her and SPF townreading her is stopping it.

Next best thing is Esooa and that feels like shit.

Don't know how to ask or if it's relevant, but I'm also town reading Nutella, but you may not be very interested in what I have to say

Sort by post cap tbh tbh

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:52 pm

anne wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:42 am and btw if mac and falcon are w/w then i was right. there is no world where falcon plays the game he does as town and there is no world in which mac, who by most accounts is a strong scum player, would feel the need to clear falcon, a valuable mischop for mafia unless they are partnered as falcon is known to have a considerably weaker wolf game. it would not surprise me if the entire role was faked, but i admit the lover aspect to this makes it less likely

Anne, why does the lover aspect of the role make this theory less likely to you? Couldn't the lover aspect also just be made up?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:54 pm

anne wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:42 am and btw if mac and falcon are w/w then i was right. there is no world where falcon plays the game he does as town and there is no world in which mac, who by most accounts is a strong scum player, would feel the need to clear falcon, a valuable mischop for mafia unless they are partnered as falcon is known to have a considerably weaker wolf game. it would not surprise me if the entire role was faked, but i admit the lover aspect to this makes it less likely

To be clear: This does not make sense to me. If you would not be surprised that the entire role was faked, why do you assume the lover part to be true anyway?

@anne Can you answer this concern?

Everyone ignored it, and I don't know if it's one of those things only I find interesting again. But I really do.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:12 am

Spoiler: show

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:42 pm Wasin the working; Happening the here?

Ha, yeeting Mac; What of Mac is the case?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:51 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:45 pm

iaafr wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:45 pm https://mafiathesyndicate.com/search.ph ... 7&sr=posts

this is mac's iso link

you'll see what i mean if you skim through it wilgy

Thanks

Hmmm...

Notting of aligning; Goof but not wolf.

Ising of Mac the makin of easy yeet; Notting of the knowing yet.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:33 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:54 pm Goof Mac is often mafia Mac though. When Mac don't know what to do, Mac be goofin. Mac can totally not goof and be town when town.

Dizzy, you correct.

Wasing of time to telling; Ising of resolving but not yet.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:52 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:34 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:15 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:13 pm I've scammed with Mac, and he never once farted.



I'd think he'd be less full of frivolity if he were scum

Ising the voting of [VOTE: Falcon] aubergine; Of the shit.

falcon is town

Tell the why?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:55 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:34 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:57 pm

cassandra wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:56 pm honestly does mac have a role where he has to keep talking about farts for no reason or is he just mafia

This is tough because I have no idea how to read Mac when he's fucking around this much.

fine I'll be serious for a minute...

Wasing of Mac the goofing; Ising of heating; Nowing the serious really?

Coward.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:06 pm Notting of Mac, Falcon the trusting; My vote away.

NAA's case?

Wilgy's Day 1 was confusing to say the least. I haven't the easiest time parsing his posts, he did talk a fair but about Mac too. My understanding is he sussed Mac early, than trusted him after claim.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:48 am

iaafr wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:47 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:47 am Bruh I already shot lol

well i mean with votes too

if you end up flipping nutella villager today pls locktown me and sheep my poe

Ez.

I'm also down with a Mac flip.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:50 am Idk, that JJJ yeet was solid. I think I did a good job clearing a slot that would cause us trouble at least in terms of PoE.

Get how I'll need to be pulled out of PoE eventually, but for now Nutella or Mac I wanna know.

On to Day 2, Wilgy wants to flip Mac immediately.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:16 pm

anne wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:19 pm You didn't even read it

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

If it's any consolation, I read it and appreciate the effort. While I don't think it changes much in terms of your position for me.

Nutella, Mac and I suppose Dizzy all need to resolve before you RN just on JJJ spew and the advent of yesterday. Again, because I wasn't a counter yeet, either scum was asleep or you aren't scum.

Anyways, your alignment would have reflect of Nutella flip. I believe that to be more important rn.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:22 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:09 pm The more falcon talks the more I want to yeet mac for putting us this in this situation lol. The dude just tricks falcon into tunneling whoever mac fosses and falcon looks like the bad guy tho in his head he’s convinced they’re his own reads. Honestly it’s kinda smart by mac. And he could be doing it as town but so far the pushes he’s tricking falcon into tunneling for him are all bad.

Taken the words right out of my mouth.

Falcon would be an instant vote rn if it wasn't for Mac.

And he continues to push his worldview where nutella, Mac, and maybe Dizzy are next in line to get yeeted. He was right about Mac, so I'm inclined to trust it for now.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:34 pm

cassandra wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:19 pm Ok Wilgy is towny when he drops the gimmick

Tbh I thought Mr was a bad shot because I had him as town, I think shooting the main CW (Anne) wouldve been correct there, though I wouldn't have cried about a Mac shot.

Fair then. I still haven't really read day 1, but it was JJJ's iso that led me to MR.

My suspicion on Nutella kept me from inquiring the CW. Anne is locktown if Nutella flips scum yes?

Mac was going to take our time regardless of if it was my shot or a yeet.

PoE is pretty straightforward:
Mac, Nutella, Dizzy, Esooa

Falcon will be added if Mac flips red. Anne will be added if Nutella flips green, NAA will be added if Esooa flips red.

Contest me on these 50/50s plz.

I don't know if we win if Ilario, Iaafr, Leetic, Marmot, SPF or Cass is scum without some mechanical savior button.

And this keeps going. Now esooa is added, but a POE of 4 with two wolves left and 2 misyeets is just fine.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:42 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:38 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:36 pm

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:57 pm

Spoiler: show

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:55 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:53 pm

agreed that alexa and LC are town

i agree that occam's razor points to falcon just being a villager, although im reluctant to clear him specifically because of mac's claim because mac has a recent history of hard shielding and hard defending one of his partners and trying to go to endgame from it (that game where he was wolf with kane and twice shrunk). even so, i agree that there's a higher probability that falcon is town than not

i think that you're clearing anne, NAA, and esooa too easily. do you have any reasons to townread anne beyond her being "fine"? i agree that some of her posts on d1 were towny, but we're at a stage of the game where that isn't a good enough reason to townread someone. i also don't agree with you that NAA's reaction was towny

also, i fundamentally disagree with your reasoning for townreading the esooa slot and i think it's a weird thing to read into. we know for a fact that sloonei was very busy IRL throughout d1, and i think it's weird to assume that he would have magically gotten more free time and ability to post if he had rand'd wolf with jagged - that doesn't seem like a reasonable or logical assumption to make, and i think it's the type of reasoning that will get you burned incredibly easily. i also think that esooa sounds tonally stiff in a way that i have NEVER seen from her in a mafia game before, so i'm not sure what to do with that

how am I tonally stiff

*Concern*

wilgy vote someone else

Sure thing dad.

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

Mac tells Wilgy to vote someone else. Whatever, it's funny.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:15 pm I'm here for a brief moment before further holiday driving.

I see Anne is the lead wagon. Neat. Doesn't make sense to me, but I won't cry about it. Still comfortable with either a Nutella or Mac yeet.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:15 am Ho boi. You fuckers are too much. Can't keep up but you are making me doubt my Iaafr read now.

I'm back to 50/50 on the Nutella Iaafr thing.

Why aren't we just yeeting Mac tho?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:21 am Fuck fuck fuck.

I can't think this fast. @leetic explain why Mac is a bad idea.

[VOTE: iaafr] aubergine

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:26 am Alright I'm back on Mac.

I'm torn on Iaafr and Nutella, but at least I like the Mac yeet without that contention.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:31 am So like. If I'm wrong on Anne that makes Nutella hard town, making Iaafr hard scum.

Mac killing Falcon on yeet is a risk I'm willing to take 100% of the time. Mostly because it's funny regardless of flip that Falcon would get cheesed like that IF TRUE.

We hit EOD. Wlgy engages with iaafr about Mac. Still pushing the nutella/Mac world.

Here's DrWilgy's interactions/mentions of Mac.


Probably the biggest problem I have with Wilgy is that he was toooo certain that Mac was scum, almost on a tmi level. I do think it looks good that he had this read from Day 1, and it couldn't strictly be a gambit pulled on Day 2.

I'm inclined to believe that Wilgy is town, because he was right about Mac, and his worldview has aligned with my own since the beginning of Day 2. Is that a reason to townread someone? I dunno. I don't feel like I should fully question my reads until my scumreads are proven completely wrong.

I also felt that Wilgy was maybe too certain of Mac as well. Wilgy doesn't post a lot of reasons for why he has the reads or views that he has in any case.

Reading back on Jimmay's post on Wilgy. At first I read it as maybe tmi that Wilgy is town, but I don't think I can really read into it like that or that it's wise to do so:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:52 pm I’m not sure any chop on the board is a bigger shrug than Wilgy. I have no read. Folks newer to him should be aware though that his general approach to this game isn’t atypical of what I know of DrWilgy. This is what he do

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:46 amyoure very clever trying to group yourself in with nutella in my townreads :P i do think that both of you have been very towny but i think that nutella is townier than you tbh - that is largely because nutella has done more stuff in this game that i perceive as Hard To Fake than you have, and most of my reasons to townread you boil down to tone/sincerity, and that really isnt enough to justify having you as a townread at this stage of the game

Well, yes, that was tongue in cheek. I'm not sure how much this matters right now, but want to respond anyway. I'm surprised that most of your reasons to townread me boils down to toan/sincerity. First of all, I don't believe that is a good way to read me in the first place. Second, I feel there's actual concrete and observable things in thread that are good reasons to read me right. Me calling out Mac immediately and sticking with the pressure based on just the vibes. I'm pretty sure that was one of the first things and only things I cared about D1, as far as I cared. I don't have a history of putting needless pressure/attention on teammates if I don't need to, and I wouldn't need to as mafia. I also have swept as mafia with Mac before. It also doesn't make sense if you think I did do that, that I would not follow through when Mac was getting a lot of pressure and was probably not going to last long anyway. The way I've been struggling quite a bit should show that I don't have TMI about this game. I'm very prone to being uncertain, and yes, I've struggled to get into this game, but actually, my first solve from reading D1 is probably pretty good (I hope (as iaafr pointed out)). And then I doubted. Ended up sheeping Calexa, which was more comfortable to me. But it's towny and certainly not scummy for me. I also feel like I'm showing actual solving and an actual want to solve the game, and I think that is pretty clearing too. I probably shouldn't expect you to totally clear me, but reading me on toan is probably a mistake in the first place. Except maybe parts of where I react to Leetic. Which is another reason to town read Nutella as well btw.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:37 pm I tried to take pressure off Mac?

I said his claim was shit from the get go and wanted him gone.

I don't think you actually ever said much about Mac's claim. At least I can't find that in your ISO. You did say that Mac was scum though.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:46 am I just see no reason to not resolve it, but Esooa works still.

This is about Jimmay's post on Nutella/iaafr reaction. Why do you want to resolve it and what do you mean by "resolve"? Iaafr is now resolved since he's confirmed. Does that make Nutella mafia to you?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:22 pm

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:09 pm The more falcon talks the more I want to yeet mac for putting us this in this situation lol. The dude just tricks falcon into tunneling whoever mac fosses and falcon looks like the bad guy tho in his head he’s convinced they’re his own reads. Honestly it’s kinda smart by mac. And he could be doing it as town but so far the pushes he’s tricking falcon into tunneling for him are all bad.

Taken the words right out of my mouth.

Falcon would be an instant vote rn if it wasn't for Mac.

This post just bugs me. First of all, I don't know how Wilgy's post is even an answer to what Ilario says. Ilario's post is kind of creepy lol. The "Taken the words right out of my mouth" to a post about how Mac is tricking Falcon feels kind of tmi to me.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:45 am if anne was the designated scum mischop yesterday, then why did mac aggressively try to rally votes away from anne and toward NAA?

if anne was the designed scum mischop but mac did not push on anne, then who are the wolves that pushed on anne?

im not even calling anne a wolf - just trying to work out if the logic of: "anne was a counterwagon to the wolves, so she's clear" holds up to some logical scrutiny

Thank fuck. I have no idea why Anne is supposedly cleared for being a cw both days. Jimmay voting Anne D1 does not clear her either. She was already a top wagon at that point if I'm not mistaken, and Jimmay wasn't doing too hot himself. It makes perfect sense if scum wants to distance or bus at that point.

Also, only me and Nutella are non-confirmed town on the D2 Anne wagon. I'm pretty certain Nutella is town. That makes the whole wagon clean, whether you like that or not. At the very least, unless you believe the scum team is exactly me and Nutella, then at least one mafia was voting elsewhere. I know for a fact at least one was, and I'm almost certain they both were.

I'm looking at Anne's actual play up against everyone else here. She's basically doing the same thing as Mac afaic. She's pretty much non-playing, and sometimes gives fleeting reads without much depth to them. I don't have much experience with Anne, but I don't see that as clearing, and I have reason to town read most other players in the game.

I don't know if Anne is scum. It certainly wouldn't surprise me. She was not a mafia pushed wagon on D2.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:37 am I should just let Anne get flipped so she can flip green then I can kill both Rabbit and Nutella.

I just played a game where someone said this exact same thing about certain players, only to find that the player he wanted to flip green flipped mafia instead.

---

Reading the start of D3 was kind of rough, but my PoE is the same. Anne, Wilgy and Esooa.

I didn't find Esooa's play very towny this phase, except maybe the post Ilario pointed out.
She seems to lack focus a bit, and I don't like her push on either Nutella or Marmot.

Wilgy is also not doing shit.
And Anne is not doing shit.
You know who else wasn't doing shit, comparatively to what we expect? Mac and Jimmay.

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:54 am I isod top wagon quickly and I don’t see any problems with esooas posts @Marmot @nutella @Dyslexicon can you all please @ me with why ur voting esooa and how confident you are in the flip being a wolf

I don't have a ready thought through reply. Just got home. But I actually prefer Anne to Esooa tbh. I'm going to eat dinner and then start the reading of D3 now.

Apparently I have 21 posts left until I'm post capped. I'll save those for tomorrow after work. I should be free.

Good night for real. ^^

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:41 pm But also, everyone's saying "aaah I'm soo townie, this is my town meta I'm literally outside of my scumrange" and I can only believe so many people saying that

I'm probably not out of scum "range" peeersonally, I'm just far out of scum "meta" lol. I could do what I'm doing as scum, I just wouldn't. If that makes sense.

Anyway, I don't know if Anne and Esooa has argued this.
Or Wilgy, who is my backup.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:33 pm For my own sanity and ego, can you explain why I am suddenly your strongest townread today Dizzy after being borderline scumread yesterday, and why you aren't discussing your read of me with nutella?

1. I'll read your ISO of Nut/Mac tomorrow. My reasons for town reading Nut are different though. How she didn't echo the "Jimmay is off" that everyone was saying and how she's reacting to Leetic. I've stated them in my ISO if you're interested. (Sorry, I haven't read D3 yet, and I can't read more now and am very soon sleeping).
2. Thank you for the clarification about iaafr's role. I get it now. Didn't remember what Nanook had flipped.
3. My scum read on you already changed during me reading up on D1 right after I came for you. I felt your start of the game was awkward and looked like scum!you. I kind of changed my mind as I kept reading and you kept pushing out analysis. And it has gradually kind of just disappeared, cause I'm just taking your involvement and analysis at face value. I also really liked your post about feeling bad because you felt you were working hard, but still got suspected. I wasn't really very suspicious of you after literally moments after I had just accused you. I don't know why I felt so confident at first, maybe just wanting to feel confident in something, but yeah, I changed my mind. I think your solving efforts are good here and I don't really see the need to tinfoil you here. I do think I can read you fairly well, which is maybe part of why I was able to convince myself you were scum at first when I felt your start was off. (This was also me reading your interaction with Jimmay, but I think it was a misread.) Also, I did tell Nutella that you are town. And I'm telling you that Nutella is town. Now kiss.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:19 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:01 pm Nutella is obv town and I want to take that mischop away please. If I can do anything this game.

I think you might be wrong, but I'm willing to not yeet her today.

No, I'm right. You're just miffed cause she got paranoid of you.

This is the new and. confident me. Enjoy.

Ok, but I did actually get somewhat of a firm worldview. I'm proud of myself. Hope Ranmilla is proud of me too.

Good night and see you all tomorrow.

Thanks, iaafr.
It would be awesome if that is right, because I would basically nail the rest of the scum team from reading D1 only and that would be pretty epic and maybe make me not try to quit mafia again.

---

Me and Nutella arguing with Leetic: WEH

Me, Nutella and Leetic: Vote together

Un-ironically love to see it.

---

If my worldview is close to correct or correct, mafia morale is probably not very high right now.
And to add to that: I promise the mafia that I will not be an easy mischop this game. You will have to work very hard in order for that to happen. No matter what Leetic says. That is a challenge. Come at me.

iaafr wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:26 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:12 pm Voters: cassandra, iaafr, nutella, Dyslexicon, NotAnAxehole

^These are the Anne voters. If iaafr is indeed confirmed town, and I'm right that Nutella is town which I'm pretty sure I am, these are literally all town.

ive made the same argument multiple times and all it does is make limecoke rage and leetic reiterate his worldview

this is not a town of malleable minds

also im 1 post from capping now

just remember i get u and ive had a ton of the same perspective the same game and a few stubborn people who refuse to see anything our way doesnt make this game unwinnable, it's probably winnable

@staypositivefriend Please explain to Lime why me an Nutella are town actually.

[VOTE: Esooa] aubergine

Over Nutella for sure.

Would like thoughts on my world view.

I think there's a pretty high chance Anne is still mafia, and I will be so vindicated please be true.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:14 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:10 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:59 pmSo about your claim. LC claimed roleblocker and has corroboration from nutella on this, so why would there be a second roleblocker but only for scum? I realize that my confusion may be because you aren't explaining your role well enough, but I would like clarification

Me writing a letter works as a roleblock if my role had randed mafia. I have no idea why this is. I did not make the setup. Do you have a problem with my claim?

Two potential scumblockers to a team seems a bit much, but whatever. Of course, if LC's role only roleblocks as town, that would be worth knowing. I don't want to vote you today, but I fully expect you to use your role so it can be corroborated.

Yeah, I can use my role this night for sure. Don't block me @Lime Coke

And even if I was mafia, why would I ever lie about my role here? It serves me no purpose. Roles aren't alignment indicative. My role is just my role. I didn't think Mac/Falcon's role made any sense either. If Falcon had checked his damn BTSC, he could've potentially outed Mac on D1 lol.

LiGhT rOlE mAdNeSs

I'm done reading D2. Actually, I just read the last half. I'm an incredibly slow reader (especially English).

I should already be in bed and won't be reading D3. We love to see it.

My sorting is this:

Town:
Marmot
Nutella
Lime
iaafr

I'm adding Leetic/Ilario, cause I think Occam's razor they are just town, and Leetic has a play style that just doesn't compute to me. But they do seem invested in trying to solve the game, even if they're going about it in a way that is completely foreign to me.

I'm adding SPF because I don't think it's beneficial to tinfoil her at this stage. I've experienced tinfoiling SPF when I didn't need to before. So I'm just leaving that be. Simplest explanation is that she's just town probably.

So if I add those my town list is

Marmot
Nutella
Lime
iaafr
Leetic/Ilario
SPF

Which leaves mafia in:
Wilgy
Esooa
Anne

If I had to guess, I'd actually maybe say Wilgy is the town out of these. Just for the way Jimmay was talking about Wilgy on D1. I remember thinking it lightly spewed Wilgy town. But this is kind of just a guess. But I could see the last mafia being Esooa/Anne.

Anne doesn't seem invested in solving.
Esooa doesn't seem as towny as the others. She jumps around quite a bit. I don't really like her push on Marmot EoD2 either.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:11 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:08 pm @leetic Why did you vote off wagon D2 when you are so convinced Anne is town, and the chop was between her and Mac?

You haven't answered my question, and I've already answered that question - I tried to switch to Mac once I noticed it was tied but the awkward poll end time meant that it was just a couple seconds too late. Esooa was actually viable for a short period at EoD2, with Marmot and Axehole also on it and it being tied with Mac and anne.

Also, I tried looking through Axehole's ISO to see if he softed any rolecop checks but couldn't find anything

Ok, I haven't read your answer, because I haven't read D3 yet.

Voters: cassandra, iaafr, nutella, Dyslexicon, NotAnAxehole

^These are the Anne voters. If iaafr is indeed confirmed town, and I'm right that Nutella is town which I'm pretty sure I am, these are literally all town.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:59 pmSo about your claim. LC claimed roleblocker and has corroboration from nutella on this, so why would there be a second roleblocker but only for scum? I realize that my confusion may be because you aren't explaining your role well enough, but I would like clarification

Me writing a letter works as a roleblock if my role had randed mafia. I have no idea why this is. I did not make the setup. Do you have a problem with my claim?

@leetic Why did you vote off wagon D2 when you are so convinced Anne is town, and the chop was between her and Mac?

Imagine Jimmay/Mac/Sloonei all rand mafia together and just... implode lol. I can imagine.

anne wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:42 am and btw if mac and falcon are w/w then i was right. there is no world where falcon plays the game he does as town and there is no world in which mac, who by most accounts is a strong scum player, would feel the need to clear falcon, a valuable mischop for mafia unless they are partnered as falcon is known to have a considerably weaker wolf game. it would not surprise me if the entire role was faked, but i admit the lover aspect to this makes it less likely

To be clear: This does not make sense to me. If you would not be surprised that the entire role was faked, why do you assume the lover part to be true anyway?

anne wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:42 am and btw if mac and falcon are w/w then i was right. there is no world where falcon plays the game he does as town and there is no world in which mac, who by most accounts is a strong scum player, would feel the need to clear falcon, a valuable mischop for mafia unless they are partnered as falcon is known to have a considerably weaker wolf game. it would not surprise me if the entire role was faked, but i admit the lover aspect to this makes it less likely

Anne, why does the lover aspect of the role make this theory less likely to you? Couldn't the lover aspect also just be made up?

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:43 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:38 pm Lime Coke, can you confirm you are a roleblocker? I need someone else to talk to, this thread is going nuts

where did you get the idea lime is rb?

He was the only one who hadn't claimed

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:43 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:39 pm Serious question: Does anyone else but Leetic think that iaafr is confirmed? Would be good to know if I can cross him off the list. @nutella

i think he is yeah

Aight, thanks!

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:41 pm I'm confirming that I'm a roleblocker.

I roleblocked Nutella N1.

Roleblocked NAA N2.

Was trying to stop the night kill.

I think it would be better if you roleblocked mafia and maybe also voted mafia

But who am I to talk amirite

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:41 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:39 pm Serious question: Does anyone else but Leetic think that iaafr is confirmed? Would be good to know if I can cross him off the list. @nutella

I don't care what people think about iaafr, there is hard mechanical evidence clearing him, don't let wolves add him back to the PoE

That was literally a question to anyone but you. But thank you for your perspective.

Serious question: Does anyone else but Leetic think that iaafr is confirmed? Would be good to know if I can cross him off the list. @nutella

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:30 pmI've already stated my evidence, it's not my fault that you don't fully read my posts

And you can have evidence because players flip, roles give results, and the events of the game are being logged. I've solved games through analysis of these, and I have a feeling that this game is solvable this way as well.

Then we are arguing semantics. What you have is not evidence. You can't have evidence for something that is (very likely) not true.

You have a theory. You have conjecture. You have concrete points that you think make sense. Good for you. I don't think they make sense. I know for a fact that you're wrong about me, and I also don't know why you're so resistant to see this. I'm also very convinced that you're wrong on Nutella. The same resistance exists.

But if Esooa is indeed scum, then it's all cool. So I hope that is the case. I'll continue reading.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:15 pm totally minor point but fwiw i disagree with the notion that mac was a "softcore" wolf to catch - yes, the majority of the thread had POE'd him, but the majority of the thread was also weirdly reluctant to vote for him or push on him, and a large portion of them were willingly sheeping his wolfread on me a couple of hours before the EOD. the momentum on mac only really came back once i outright called him a wolf at the EOD, and he probably wouldnt have gone through at all if i didnt emphasize several times that i thought he was clearly the best chop

the fact that mac was very clearly trying to angle me to be mischopped is probably the most clearing thing for me, in conjunction with the fact that i brought him back in contention as a chop at a point when his position was relatively "safe"

But the scary thing is that this seems like a very Mac thing to do as mafia. So it's like not something I even like. But it could happen with you as town as well. So I'll probably try not to think about this. Don't know how familiar you are with mafia Mac, but he's hard pushed and hard defended and hard whatever, and I peeersonally find it very hard to try and read into. And no, this is not trying to take away cred or widen PoE or whatever. But it's just what I think.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:15 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:10 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:26 amI still have not seen a good reason from you why JJJ would prefer anne to die over Wilgy, Axehole, and MR (the lattermost of which is confirmed town)

Does it truly not occur to you that mafia does vote other mafia?
Especially when Anne was the leading wagon at the time.
And Jimmay did not have a good standing in the thread himself.
So to collect cred for a wagon that was already looking to be popular (Anne wagon) or to muddy the water for late game, mafia can vote mafia.

I'm not saying this definitely did happen.
But do you just assume these things never happen? I've seen it happen plenty of times.

I already said I don't want assertions that something could have happened, instead I want evidence that it did happen. I explained the Jay/anne thing a million times so just look through my ISO.

Then bring freaking EVIDENCE to your CLAIMS that the two last mafia is in me/Esooa/Nutella. Because I'm pretty damn sure you're just wrong. And you do not have evidence. You THINKING this is not evidence.

You can never have clear evidence in a mafia game. That is the freaking point of the game. If you are town, you DO NOT KNOW. You can guess, but you can never know.

The "evidence" I have is that I think other players in the game is townier than Anne. I know Calexa scum read Anne quite a bit. That is not much, but it's why I consider Anne as possible mafia.

Jimmay voting Anne isn't really relevant to my read on her.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:08 pmlook, I'm going after Esooa and nutella before you, but you have to admit your ISO isn't great. Most of your Mac interactions are over mechanical stuff rather than anything else and you eventually stepped off of your suspicion. You have yet to vote a flipped wolf when many others have and your D1 vote was scummy. Being too busy to have a major presence does not really give you a townread. Now, there are a couple things that look good for you, like Mac being on you as a vanity wagon (which he also did to flipped town Axehole) and maybe not being sure of a four person team suggests a lack of TMI, but it could be faked as I had already read Axehole as town for a similar reason. Regardless, I suggest you cooperate with me, and keep in mind I do not find self-meta reasons to be convincing in the slightest.

iaafr is cleared town. LC is obvious town. Marmot is obvious town. We can argue about anne, but considering JJJ didn't take the opportunity to go after Axehole at EoD she's obvious town. That narrows it down to five. spf voted both wolves, but both were relatively softcore - she's likely town, but I have seen scum who can put in a similar amount of effort, but still she could have easily taken down anne so I am inclined to townread her. Next is Wilgy, did have a vote on Mac but not too much else that is necessarily clearing, with the main point in his favor being apparent lack of compatibility with much of the PoE. Next is you, which I've already explained, and at the bottom is nutella and Esooa. nutella was off the scum wagon both times, very tunnelly in a push to a wagon that was twice the CW to scum, defended two wolves, showed a lot of hedginess especially with both posts at EoD, and overall has been promoting tinfoil seemingly to disrupt the town. Esooa... well, just look at her posts this phase, but self voting, lack of apparent effort, going after poor targets, and just excessive OMGUS all look bad for her. The bottom two seem to be at each other's throats, but I would expect scum to bus at this point, and then there's nutella's possible TMI over this pairing. I think it makes a lot of sense and would vote between the two, but if you think I'm wrong, you should suggest an alternative that makes sense. I don't want assertions that something might have happened, I want evidence that it did happen.

I have never claimed my ISO to be "great". But it is towny. My ISO has been "great" plenty of times, and many of those times, I've been mafia. You would love my ISO in my last games here were I've randed mafia. Having a "great" ISO when you have TMI on the game is easy. I, however, do not have TMI, I have barely known what's going on a lot of the time (Yes, this is my fault - but it is a relevant piece context here). I'm doing my best. I don't find it easy to make up my mind or have confidence in myself in this game about everything.

I still don't understand how iaafr is cleared town. What if he's a day vig and he just claimed to be a kind that can only shoot someone of same alignment? What if he just lied?

I agree that Marmot and Lime is town.
You act like mafia never votes mafia, and that is obviously not true.

To me, Nutella is obvious town. I think your reasoning for scum reading her are bad. Mac was not putting in effort, and Jimmay was clearly off. Nutella has made bad decisions, but she has not acted in a way that shows that she knew Jimmay and Mac were mafia. If she had known, I'm sure she had managed to come out of this looking superficially better. At least, that is what I believe. And then the truth shall set us free I guess.

I know I am town. You have not explained your read on me other than "my ISO isn't towny" and you "don't like things that I do". It's not an explanation for a read. Why is this a mafia trait for me? Can you explain that? That is rhetorical, and you don't have to do it lol.

So your "90% sure reads" are bad, and you're holding onto them for dear life, it seems.

I don't think spf voted Mac soft core. I think she was one of the hardest voices against Mac. AND - I don't think that is clearing for her. I would actually be less concerned if her suss was softer, because I believe that she would bus as mafia there. But it's of course possible that she just had a correct read as town, because Mac was scummy.

I don't know about Esooa. I haven't read D3 yet. Still at EoD 2. She might be mafia, I don't know.