The Syndicate

I am sorry to my scumbuddies and the rest of the players for all of my low access woes; I'm typically not a person to miss the vote that many times but when we were in Florida I didn't have the chance to be around then even when I thought I was and when I got back home I passed out exhausted twice more than I hoped I would >.>

This was certainly not a game with a lot of luck on the scum side; boo on us for killing baddies two times but I guess that's not completely unexpected when we didn't pick our kills the way we should have, and Golden zeroing on Soneji instantly and Sig zeroing on Glorfindel certainly created some remarkably awkward situations.

I very much enjoyed playing with you all; I mostly just hope that my next scum game here is more of a glorious rampage of death and destruction as opposed to whatever this scum game was.

I kill Sboq sig!!

Vitingbisntb workibg

I think that Daisy and DDL are town.
Elo gets a pass for today because I like Elo.
Epi is town, it would amuse me to lynch Dom again, MP gets a pass, Snow Dog probably is something bad, Soneji would vote, Sig I wouldn't, Zebra I would.

So, I'll read through Dom, Snow, Soneji, Zebra, which is manageable enough.

We had mimosas in the afternoon, but have since shifted to dark and stormies. When midnight hits, we are making super margaritas!
I'm sorry that your kids are old enough where pants are necessary Elo

juliets wrote:My husband and I are also sitting at home drinking and watching the college football playoffs. But I'm not playing this game so I can't put down my drink and discuss.

No need to put down your drink and discuss; it's a holiday, be merry, help me find someone to cast the first stone at!

I've been so fucking busy lately, nothing sounded better to me than getting plastered and playing mafia.
Fuck going into Chicago this year, fuck going out to a bar, fuck putting on pants.
This is how the New Year was meant to be celebrated.

Elohcin wrote:I honestly feel good about several of the players we have the option to vote for. The ones I am unsure of are Marco, MP, and Snow Dog. I won't place my vote yet, but I am up to voting one of those.

Sir, I bet we are the only losers sitting at home drinking on this wonderful occasion.

My girlfriend and I are also sitting at home drinking; I do hope that you don't think that we're losers as well

Happy New Year's all of you lovely ladies and gentlemen!!!

Elohcin wrote:BUT...I was right about Sprit and got no stinkin' credit for it.

Yuck.
Do you think Epi was being irrational for the reasons Quin outlined?

Post restrictions seem like they're being used for amusement's sake, not sure anything rules out mafia targeting mafia with them since they aren't of the silencing or hard inconveniencing type anymore unless VP doesn't know what he's doing.

Epi's "I'm reading LC as town and I'm never saying why" childhood taunt makes me want to think town.

Epignosis wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Assuming three things:

First, Eloh is bad.

Second, Mafias aren't self-targeting.

Third, the VP curses someone.

This would mean that Eloh would have had to be with the troupe and would have had to have thrown sprityo2 under the bus when she could have saved him. I'm not especially comfortable believing that.

Why wouldn't Mafias self-target?

That's why I listed that as an assumption. It isn't a fact.

Better question: why would we assume that?

You don't have to assume that. I'm not asking you to assume that. But that assumption has to be false if Eloh is bad and not with the troupe.

If the Mafia did target one of their own with a curse, then what mileage are they getting out of it? She can still post normally- she just apparently has to be super respectful to me refer to me as a certain role.

The Mafia doesn't get a particular amount of mileage with the punishments in the first place; they can minorly inconvenience someone for a day, but not more than that. Why not target one of their own to make it look like they aren't on the same team?

Quin wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:There are people who are posting less/scumhunting less than they would otherwise because they are afraid of dying by the other team via nightkill.

Who are they?

You're missing the point; I'm getting bored.
Why did you think that Snow Dog and DDL were partners based on the Snow Dog posts you quoted?

There are people who are posting less/scumhunting less than they would otherwise because they are afraid of dying by the other team via nightkill.

Epignosis wrote:

Quin wrote:I didn't do much anyway, but now I'll definitely be phone posting while we do Christmas things.

I voted for DDL. I think he's bad.

Spoiler: show

Snow Dog wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:And with that, I'm gonna vote LC in order to attempt to put another option in the table.

Despite voting for you first time round I have good feelings about you. I won't be voting for you this time.

Spoiler: show

Snow Dog wrote:

Golden wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:What's the advantage of random voting at all?

If you're not the determiner, you might as well not vote.

If you are the determiner....you want to determine who should die randomly?

Not voting as any kind of deliberate choice is very much frowned upon in our history.

Having said that, I generally agree that any slight read is better than randomising.

I'm not convinced it was entirely random, though. Perhaps random within a pool, or perhaps not random at all.

linki - what kind of cookie?

It wasn't entirely random i confess. It was a straight choice between DDL and Jack. The two guys who wanted me lynched. I chose DDL because I read somewhere that he was more likely bad.
I was tired, I needed to go to bed and I had to vote. Plus I wanted to give a nod to Vompatti's playstyle as I had done DrWilgy earlier.

And if he's bad, Snow Dog is his teammate.

This business is too obvious for Quin's sophistication.

Could you explain your Snow Dog - DDL connection or direct me to where you have already?

Quin wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Quin wrote:Merry Christmas 'yall. I'm here for a few hours and then I'll likely just be lurking from my phone while my relatives are over for the afternoon.

My vote's probably going to go to Luffy again. I didn't get anything from our conversation to steer me away from that idea.

Doesn't seem like Luffy's in the cards today without a bit of pushing or prodding; is it okay that you're parking your vote in nowheresville or are you expecting Providence?

You don't know me at all, do you?

I don't! At the time it felt like you were following through on your vote because it was your SUSPICION; doesn't feel any different on skimthrough #2.

Quin wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Quin wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Quin wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:My case is that you used language which allows you to state suspicion on someone without commiting to it. The fact day 1 was already done for you doesn't undermine that, because the game has more than one day. Long term planning exists. What exactly was going over your mind if you were bad is something I won't bother to speculate on, because that's too difficult for me to determine. I'm just pointing out that your posts could be part of a bad agenda.

As I said; there's no motivation for me to be non-committal in my scum-hunting when there's two scum teams. I'd need to eliminate them as a priority, because they'd have two opportunities to kill me versus the townie's one. Long-term planning indeed.

But the other baddie team would have more incentive to kill you when you're murdering all of their friends.

And? I've got three other teammates I'm also actively trying to set up for success in that case.

Your initial argument is that non-committal scumhunting wasn't a baddie tell because the other scum team had two chances to kill you versus a civilian's one, which is an argument that doesn't exactly hold water.

No it wasn't. My initial argument was that nobody is being non-committal in their scum hunting because there are two baddie teams.

Doesn't really fix the argument; the flaw exists whether it's you or everyone.

Epignosis wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Assuming three things:

First, Eloh is bad.

Second, Mafias aren't self-targeting.

Third, the VP curses someone.

This would mean that Eloh would have had to be with the troupe and would have had to have thrown sprityo2 under the bus when she could have saved him. I'm not especially comfortable believing that.

Why wouldn't Mafias self-target?

That's why I listed that as an assumption. It isn't a fact.

Better question: why would we assume that?

I would 100% give a scumpartner a post restriction if I had the ability; I think that assuming mafia won't target each other (especially with provable actions) is making a pretty bad assumption most days.

Epignosis wrote:Assuming three things:

First, Eloh is bad.

Second, Mafias aren't self-targeting.

Third, the VP curses someone.

This would mean that Eloh would have had to be with the troupe and would have had to have thrown sprityo2 under the bus when she could have saved him. I'm not especially comfortable believing that.

Why wouldn't Mafias self-target?

Quin wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Quin wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:My case is that you used language which allows you to state suspicion on someone without commiting to it. The fact day 1 was already done for you doesn't undermine that, because the game has more than one day. Long term planning exists. What exactly was going over your mind if you were bad is something I won't bother to speculate on, because that's too difficult for me to determine. I'm just pointing out that your posts could be part of a bad agenda.

As I said; there's no motivation for me to be non-committal in my scum-hunting when there's two scum teams. I'd need to eliminate them as a priority, because they'd have two opportunities to kill me versus the townie's one. Long-term planning indeed.

But the other baddie team would have more incentive to kill you when you're murdering all of their friends.

And? I've got three other teammates I'm also actively trying to set up for success in that case.

Your initial argument is that non-committal scumhunting wasn't a baddie tell because the other scum team had two chances to kill you versus a civilian's one, which is an argument that doesn't exactly hold water.

I didn't understand what Elo was getting at when she said that baddies had game-related "Sirs" as well.

Quin wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:My case is that you used language which allows you to state suspicion on someone without commiting to it. The fact day 1 was already done for you doesn't undermine that, because the game has more than one day. Long term planning exists. What exactly was going over your mind if you were bad is something I won't bother to speculate on, because that's too difficult for me to determine. I'm just pointing out that your posts could be part of a bad agenda.

As I said; there's no motivation for me to be non-committal in my scum-hunting when there's two scum teams. I'd need to eliminate them as a priority, because they'd have two opportunities to kill me versus the townie's one. Long-term planning indeed.

But the other baddie team would have more incentive to kill you when you're murdering all of their friends.

Snow Dog I've wanted to vote all game. Zebra I don't really have an opinion.

Quin wrote: If I read a post saying 'Hey, I intend to vote for Quin today', I'd feel pretty confident that they'd have something to talk about.

If you have something to talk about, why not just say it?

I'm liking Epi a lot more.
Him townreading Daisy around where I'm townreading Daisy shouldn't be a reason for me to like him but it is.

I meant to post that like 4 times but forgot.

Daisy is town! Hopefully!

Quin wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Quin wrote:I keep getting murdered. Have mercy, baddies.

I'm gonna put my vote down on Luffy. I've got other plans for this afternoon that don't involve waiting around to talk to someone who might not even show up.

So far the entirety of your DDL suspicion that I can see is nothing, unless I missed something. I don't like how you're resigned to vote him early in the day but put no effort in convincing others/selling your case; I think we talked about this earlier, but I don't think it's the mindset of a town Quin.

I stated quite a few times I intended to vote for him on Day 1. It was an invitation for him to come in and have a conversation. He simply wasn't around. As for not selling my case, I didn't have one at the time. It was a fair level of distrust that I thought was deserving of a Day 1 vote.

I'm playing the burglary, so this is it for me for now.

I don't see how saying that you're going to vote for a person is somehow inviting them to come have a conversation.
Bringing up what's bothering you specifically, sure, but the only real response to a bare "I'm going to vote you" is "have a good time, see you after I flip green".

Nachomamma8 wrote:Elo, I fail to see how you calling Epi "sir" was at all related to Daisy's point, or, if it wasn't, how what you posted was a rebuttal to anything but you calling Epi "sir".

And the fact you managed to warp things that horribly makes me considerably more suspicious of you as a result.
And I really really want to vote you because it feels like a shiny new amazing scumread; I know that saying "convince me" doesn't help people to post more convincingly in general but full disclosure is that I'd like you maybe to take some time to explain the you/Epi dynamic a bit more thoroughly this game instead of dismissing questions about it offhand because the small bits that you've given us so far scream baddie.

Golden wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Golden wrote:Nacho, it is significantly weaker. Enough for me to not be town reading him. Not enough for me to get a significant sense of doom though. Could be bad, could be indy... but it would not be truthful to say I am reading him bad yet either (although I'm still working my way through older posts and his recent ones aren't inspiring). Sometimes I get clean reads on the people I can read, other times it's not as clean. Definitely nothing clean here.

Why didn't you comment on it when you saw it?

Saw what?

I've commented on everything I've seen that is worthy of comment. Maybe I misunderstand what you meant was weaker.

still talking about the role speculation

Elo, I fail to see how you calling Epi "sir" was at all related to Daisy's point, or, if it wasn't, how what you posted was a rebuttal to anything but you calling Epi "sir".

Quin wrote:I keep getting murdered. Have mercy, baddies.

I'm gonna put my vote down on Luffy. I've got other plans for this afternoon that don't involve waiting around to talk to someone who might not even show up.

So far the entirety of your DDL suspicion that I can see is nothing, unless I missed something. I don't like how you're resigned to vote him early in the day but put no effort in convincing others/selling your case; I think we talked about this earlier, but I don't think it's the mindset of a town Quin.

But as of right now I feel good with Golden, DDL, Sig, JoH townreads. I don't have anything beyond that although I do have a wealth and a half of scumreads.

Hi Elo!
Please come talk to me, this game is boring
Why are you leaning on Epi when he's reading you wrong? Doesn't it make you suspicious that he's reading you wrong?

I think I would be a happier camper if I had more people to talk to; this is a brutal game so far (I do not have many town reads that I feel comfortable with at this point which is exceptionally strange for me). I'm hoping that things become more dense as I make my way through; I think part of the weirdness could be due to the small number of civs relative to the game, but most people that I'm expecting to get a clear signal from I'm getting nothing.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm excited to understand this site's meta more where I can start to understand roles more - I didn't have a single guess to who was what role by the end of Monkey Island and I've found the lack of information makes me feel very very lost, but I'm hoping that changes pretty soon!!

You!

You're the guy who got me lynched on mafiascum but you couldn't explain why I was scummy.

I got lynched, was town, and you were immediately replaced and I never learned why you thought I was mafia. Quite annoyed with you, I was.

In fairness, I was probably shit at vanilla mafia at the time.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4955712

This post still rocks.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm excited to understand this site's meta more where I can start to understand roles more - I didn't have a single guess to who was what role by the end of Monkey Island and I've found the lack of information makes me feel very very lost, but I'm hoping that changes pretty soon!!

You!

You're the guy who got me lynched on mafiascum but you couldn't explain why I was scummy.

I got lynched, was town, and you were immediately replaced and I never learned why you thought I was mafia. Quite annoyed with you, I was.

In fairness, I was probably shit at vanilla mafia at the time.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4955712

This post still rocks.

Quin wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:Quin, I expect my opening will be a bit lower volume than Monkey Island due to vacation and preparing for vacation - hence the whole "I shouldn't join but I love you guys too much to do anything else" thing.

That's all good. I wasn't calling you suspicious for it or anything, it was just an observation I felt needed to be made.

I let it go at the time, but I don't understand where you're coming from with this. If it wasn't suspicion, why was it an observation that needed to be made?

Quin wrote:

sprityo wrote:

Quin wrote:

sprityo wrote:What I'm getting at is the situation isn't this huge conflict. It's a statement, a joke, and it's only purpose as of now is generating content that we can't even use, it's more so being used to setup boundaries/groups of people for whatever reason

Why do you think we can't use it? I've taken quite a lot out of the discussion so far.

What have you taken away, since I just see it as filler

Off the topic of my head:

- I don't trust DDL. I'll probably vote for him today.
- I recall Epi pulling up the names of people who took part in the discussion that also played Monkey Island, so I can analyse their content to see if it's compatible with that.
- Epi put some blind trust for Day 1 in Jack and (someone else), so that's something we can look at in hindsight if one of them flips bad later on.

One of my big focuses this reading session other than who Spyrito 1.0 suspected and how Spyrito 2.0's reads differed is where the hell Quin's case on DDL comes from - one of the few things that I always saw get brought up no matter how deep into the ether I dove was Quin-DDL conflict.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Also the Nacho dude looks like he is blending. I recall him commenting on a lot of subjects but never got too involved.

I liked when DDL voted me initially in retrospect; I liked that he just went his own way and didn't try to dip into anything that was going on around him. I think that when mafia have to make a rushed vote they sometimes have a tendency to try to make it seem more reasoned and draw from things that are going around them and this seemed more out of the blue genuine gut to me.

I liked Golden's early townread on Zebra; it felt personal. No reason he couldn't fake it as scum (he probably would fake it as scum because multiball), but it felt genuine.

I don't understand why people are suspecting DDL even a little bit; I've seen him annoyedly posting at Golden and Quin and he seems pure enough to me.

Spacedaisy wrote:Elo frequently gets overwhelmed and behind in games, it's why she usually says she likes Heists better than full games. But in all this time playing with her I have never felt like she specifically was sheeping Epi. It's a new move for her and I can't see a good reason for it that looks civ to me. I could see her being Indy, after her response to the Dom lynch though.

Still reading through DDL at the moment.

That makes sense; I agree with your conclusion that what you've found is probably more of an Indy tell.

DFaraday, do people that are recruited by Ishmael flip as Cult of Ishmael or do they flip their original role and nothing more?

Golden wrote:Nacho, it is significantly weaker. Enough for me to not be town reading him. Not enough for me to get a significant sense of doom though. Could be bad, could be indy... but it would not be truthful to say I am reading him bad yet either (although I'm still working my way through older posts and his recent ones aren't inspiring). Sometimes I get clean reads on the people I can read, other times it's not as clean. Definitely nothing clean here.

Why didn't you comment on it when you saw it?

Hi Epi!
Can you talk about why you think your wife is trying to kill you while I'm trying to catch up? It might make fighting the good fight go a bit smoother!

Long Con's role analysis here: Golden, I'm looking for your input on this specifically; I was impressed how you looked at his Monkey Island role spec and came away feeling great about it (and was even more impressed when I agreed with your conclusions). I was expecting you to comment on it here because I thought that it was significantly weaker here than it was there (in particular, the part that stood out to me there was his analysis of baddie roles there but I thought it lacked the same depth here); do you not usually comment on his role analysis/do you think this one was particularly neutral/did you decide not to comment on it just so I'd call you out about it later?

Spacedaisy wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:And hilariously enough, didn't read Spacedaisy's post above mine before that last post.

SD, why do you find Elo leaning on Epi to be odd behavior from her? It seems only natural to lean on someone close to you for reads; I get that you haven't seen it from her before, but have you played a game with her where she was extremely busy before (maybe she's more likely to lean on Epi when she doesn't have time) and why do you think she'd do that if bad when she can scumhunt genuinely in a multiball game?

I find it odd because it is out of character from what i have seen from her in the past, whether civ or bad. Elo has grown in her game a lot in the past couple years, and I find this behavior to be incongruent with growth I would identify as civ behavior, it looks more like someone trying to pocket someone else to me, and it makes sense because of exactly what you said, Epi being her spouse will carry more weight with the group. So if she could pocket him it would help her more as a baddie. Civ's don't need to pocket others, baddies do. And it sure looks like she is trying to pocket Epi to me.

The only point I was trying to make is that maybe she's grabbing at a lifeline because she feels like she's drowning; when my girlfriend and I play together usually I'm happy to form my reads and go my own ways but whenever I'm feeling overwhelmed or particularly frustrated than I tend to follow her like a lost puppy.

I understand the point you're making and will probably follow up with it once I have the slightest idea once I'm talking about again.

Other things that are coming to me as the gears are turning is that I don't understand the recent Golden suspicion - I liked his recent response to Epignosis over the "clown" comment - his talk about how Epignosis changes his mind based on internal mechanisms and there's nothing he can do to stop it in addition to the "that's fine you can call me a clown but fuck you" type of comments. I don't really have anything definitive or particularly compelling for this point, but the way the comments flowed came across how I always hope my responses to strong suspicion like that look as scum so if he is scum here I'm jealous as hell.

Spacedaisy wrote:Going to go on to DDL now... see you guys sometime tomorrow, I'm sure he has posted a lot as per his usual.

Nacho: That was no my point. My point was I think Elo knows that and is trying to buddy him by seeking out and sheeping his opinions. I actually am civ reading Epi and have been since the start.

I wasn't even responding to your point there - just an odd coincidence.

And hilariously enough, didn't read Spacedaisy's post above mine before that last post.

SD, why do you find Elo leaning on Epi to be odd behavior from her? It seems only natural to lean on someone close to you for reads; I get that you haven't seen it from her before, but have you played a game with her where she was extremely busy before (maybe she's more likely to lean on Epi when she doesn't have time) and why do you think she'd do that if bad when she can scumhunt genuinely in a multiball game?