A Mafia of Unfortunate Events [END GAME]

[Nachomamma8]

I liked Golden's early townread on Zebra; it felt personal. No reason he couldn't fake it as scum (he probably would fake it as scum because multiball), but it felt genuine.

[Spacedaisy]

So far I don't find anything suspicious in DDL, he reads extremely civ to me. But I am going to finish it to be sure it doesn't change my opinion.

[Nachomamma8]

Also the Nacho dude looks like he is blending. I recall him commenting on a lot of subjects but never got too involved.

I liked when DDL voted me initially in retrospect; I liked that he just went his own way and didn't try to dip into anything that was going on around him. I think that when mafia have to make a rushed vote they sometimes have a tendency to try to make it seem more reasoned and draw from things that are going around them and this seemed more out of the blue genuine gut to me.

[Nachomamma8]

Quin, I expect my opening will be a bit lower volume than Monkey Island due to vacation and preparing for vacation - hence the whole "I shouldn't join but I love you guys too much to do anything else" thing.

That's all good. I wasn't calling you suspicious for it or anything, it was just an observation I felt needed to be made.

I let it go at the time, but I don't understand where you're coming from with this. If it wasn't suspicion, why was it an observation that needed to be made?

What I'm getting at is the situation isn't this huge conflict. It's a statement, a joke, and it's only purpose as of now is generating content that we can't even use, it's more so being used to setup boundaries/groups of people for whatever reason

Why do you think we can't use it? I've taken quite a lot out of the discussion so far.

What have you taken away, since I just see it as filler

Off the topic of my head:

- I don't trust DDL. I'll probably vote for him today.
- I recall Epi pulling up the names of people who took part in the discussion that also played Monkey Island, so I can analyse their content to see if it's compatible with that.
- Epi put some blind trust for Day 1 in Jack and (someone else), so that's something we can look at in hindsight if one of them flips bad later on.

One of my big focuses this reading session other than who Spyrito 1.0 suspected and how Spyrito 2.0's reads differed is where the hell Quin's case on DDL comes from - one of the few things that I always saw get brought up no matter how deep into the ether I dove was Quin-DDL conflict.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm excited to understand this site's meta more where I can start to understand roles more - I didn't have a single guess to who was what role by the end of Monkey Island and I've found the lack of information makes me feel very very lost, but I'm hoping that changes pretty soon!!

You!

You're the guy who got me lynched on mafiascum but you couldn't explain why I was scummy.

I got lynched, was town, and you were immediately replaced and I never learned why you thought I was mafia. Quite annoyed with you, I was.

In fairness, I was probably shit at vanilla mafia at the time.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4955712

This post still rocks.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm excited to understand this site's meta more where I can start to understand roles more - I didn't have a single guess to who was what role by the end of Monkey Island and I've found the lack of information makes me feel very very lost, but I'm hoping that changes pretty soon!!

You!

You're the guy who got me lynched on mafiascum but you couldn't explain why I was scummy.

I got lynched, was town, and you were immediately replaced and I never learned why you thought I was mafia. Quite annoyed with you, I was.

In fairness, I was probably shit at vanilla mafia at the time.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4955712

This post still rocks.

[Nachomamma8]

I think I would be a happier camper if I had more people to talk to; this is a brutal game so far (I do not have many town reads that I feel comfortable with at this point which is exceptionally strange for me). I'm hoping that things become more dense as I make my way through; I think part of the weirdness could be due to the small number of civs relative to the game, but most people that I'm expecting to get a clear signal from I'm getting nothing.

[Nachomamma8]

But as of right now I feel good with Golden, DDL, Sig, JoH townreads. I don't have anything beyond that although I do have a wealth and a half of scumreads.

Hi Elo!
Please come talk to me, this game is boring
Why are you leaning on Epi when he's reading you wrong? Doesn't it make you suspicious that he's reading you wrong?

[Nachomamma8]

I keep getting murdered. Have mercy, baddies.

I'm gonna put my vote down on Luffy. I've got other plans for this afternoon that don't involve waiting around to talk to someone who might not even show up.

So far the entirety of your DDL suspicion that I can see is nothing, unless I missed something. I don't like how you're resigned to vote him early in the day but put no effort in convincing others/selling your case; I think we talked about this earlier, but I don't think it's the mindset of a town Quin.

[Spacedaisy]

Yeah, I just finished reading DDL. While there are some minor things that taken on their own might seem mildly suspect, I think his over all tone, contribution and game play reads very civ to me. I can't imagine voting him unless something major happens to change my mind.

So to recap, after reading them I have come to the conclusion I will not be voting Soneji or DDL.

I would consider a vote for Elo, Zebra or Snow Dog I think. Elo is the one I suspect the most, but I also think she might be indy so it might be a waste of time. I need to revisit the indy role descriptions.

[Elohcin]

Elo...

A couple things stand out to me regarding Elo. She seems to be sheeping a lot. And she seems to be buddying up to Epi. I don't mean the Sir thing either. I mean she is specifically asking him in particular for opinions and stuff. I don't recall seeing her doing that in the past. But she does try to pocket him when she is bad, and who could blame her. I've done the same to my husband. People tend to put more stock in a spouse/SO read of you.

Another thing I found concerning was her flip flop, before Dom flipped she was gunning for me and Quin. Then Dom flipped and she was all, "oh I should look at who started this train." Just such an easy flip flop, it makes me uncomfortable with her. Most votes are not that clear cut to sort out who on them was good and bad, and it feels like an attempt to pin something onto an easy lynch that doesn't affect her.

Leaning bad on Elo. Possibly Indy though.

I guess I could start talking to Sir about things unrelated to the game instead.

Sir, your chili tonight was wonderful. I looked forward to it all day.

Sir, would you like to watch a tv show together later after the kids go to bed?

Sir, you sure have a whole bunch of yellow shirts. Ever notice that?

Does this make you less suspicious of me, Daisy? I just figured when I call him Sir, it should be game related. I could check with our host, if you'd like. But I'm pretty sure that the baddies had game-related "Sir"s in mind too.

I will say that I weight Epi's suspicion of Elo heavily, being the whole married couple thing and all - is there a reason I shouldn't do this?

Yes. Sir is not always right about me even though he might think otherwise.

Going to go on to DDL now... see you guys sometime tomorrow, I'm sure he has posted a lot as per his usual.

Nacho: That was no my point. My point was I think Elo knows that and is trying to buddy him by seeking out and sheeping his opinions. I actually am civ reading Epi and have been since the start.

I am not trying to buddy up with Sir. The baddie's want it to look that way, I assume.

okay, I cannot take reading anymore of this....I have to go ahead and post and respond more later.

[Quin]

Quin, I expect my opening will be a bit lower volume than Monkey Island due to vacation and preparing for vacation - hence the whole "I shouldn't join but I love you guys too much to do anything else" thing.

That's all good. I wasn't calling you suspicious for it or anything, it was just an observation I felt needed to be made.

I let it go at the time, but I don't understand where you're coming from with this. If it wasn't suspicion, why was it an observation that needed to be made?

I make observations all the time. If it's something that I think it's significant, it's something I put in my back pocket so I'm able to either come back to it or put it in the thread so others can discuss it.

What I'm getting at is the situation isn't this huge conflict. It's a statement, a joke, and it's only purpose as of now is generating content that we can't even use, it's more so being used to setup boundaries/groups of people for whatever reason

Why do you think we can't use it? I've taken quite a lot out of the discussion so far.

What have you taken away, since I just see it as filler

Off the topic of my head:

- I don't trust DDL. I'll probably vote for him today.
- I recall Epi pulling up the names of people who took part in the discussion that also played Monkey Island, so I can analyse their content to see if it's compatible with that.
- Epi put some blind trust for Day 1 in Jack and (someone else), so that's something we can look at in hindsight if one of them flips bad later on.

One of my big focuses this reading session other than who Spyrito 1.0 suspected and how Spyrito 2.0's reads differed is where the hell Quin's case on DDL comes from - one of the few things that I always saw get brought up no matter how deep into the ether I dove was Quin-DDL conflict.

This post was in the early stages of my DDL suspicion. I recall he accused me of something without researching it first. I felt as though he was backpedaling when he defended his mistake by saying he accused first and researched later. I made a post recently where I covered my thoughts for around Days 0/1/2, if that's what you're further referring to.

[Spacedaisy]

Elo, I was pretty straightforward when I said I didn't think this because of the Sir stuff. It is based on two things, you seem to be really sheeping a lot of people's opinions, and yes it looked like you were specifically trying to pocket Epi. I will read over your stuff again to see if I got that only since your curse or before. The word Sir is irrelevant to me, but if you were using the curse by addressing him to make it make sense in the context of the game I could see why I would have that impression. I'm going to check back on this. will comment in a moment.

[Nachomamma8]

Elo, I fail to see how you calling Epi "sir" was at all related to Daisy's point, or, if it wasn't, how what you posted was a rebuttal to anything but you calling Epi "sir".

[Golden]

Nacho, it is significantly weaker. Enough for me to not be town reading him. Not enough for me to get a significant sense of doom though. Could be bad, could be indy... but it would not be truthful to say I am reading him bad yet either (although I'm still working my way through older posts and his recent ones aren't inspiring). Sometimes I get clean reads on the people I can read, other times it's not as clean. Definitely nothing clean here.

Why didn't you comment on it when you saw it?

Saw what?

I've commented on everything I've seen that is worthy of comment. Maybe I misunderstand what you meant was weaker.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, it is significantly weaker. Enough for me to not be town reading him. Not enough for me to get a significant sense of doom though. Could be bad, could be indy... but it would not be truthful to say I am reading him bad yet either (although I'm still working my way through older posts and his recent ones aren't inspiring). Sometimes I get clean reads on the people I can read, other times it's not as clean. Definitely nothing clean here.

Why didn't you comment on it when you saw it?

Saw what?

I've commented on everything I've seen that is worthy of comment. Maybe I misunderstand what you meant was weaker.

still talking about the role speculation

[Nachomamma8]

Elo, I fail to see how you calling Epi "sir" was at all related to Daisy's point, or, if it wasn't, how what you posted was a rebuttal to anything but you calling Epi "sir".

And the fact you managed to warp things that horribly makes me considerably more suspicious of you as a result.
And I really really want to vote you because it feels like a shiny new amazing scumread; I know that saying "convince me" doesn't help people to post more convincingly in general but full disclosure is that I'd like you maybe to take some time to explain the you/Epi dynamic a bit more thoroughly this game instead of dismissing questions about it offhand because the small bits that you've given us so far scream baddie.

[Quin]

I keep getting murdered. Have mercy, baddies.

I'm gonna put my vote down on Luffy. I've got other plans for this afternoon that don't involve waiting around to talk to someone who might not even show up.

So far the entirety of your DDL suspicion that I can see is nothing, unless I missed something. I don't like how you're resigned to vote him early in the day but put no effort in convincing others/selling your case; I think we talked about this earlier, but I don't think it's the mindset of a town Quin.

I stated quite a few times I intended to vote for him on Day 1. It was an invitation for him to come in and have a conversation. He simply wasn't around. As for not selling my case, I didn't have one at the time. It was a fair level of distrust that I thought was deserving of a Day 1 vote.

I'm playing the burglary, so this is it for me for now.

[Elohcin]

And hilariously enough, didn't read Spacedaisy's post above mine before that last post.

SD, why do you find Elo leaning on Epi to be odd behavior from her? It seems only natural to lean on someone close to you for reads; I get that you haven't seen it from her before, but have you played a game with her where she was extremely busy before (maybe she's more likely to lean on Epi when she doesn't have time) and why do you think she'd do that if bad when she can scumhunt genuinely in a multiball game?

I find it odd because it is out of character from what i have seen from her in the past, whether civ or bad. Elo has grown in her game a lot in the past couple years, and I find this behavior to be incongruent with growth I would identify as civ behavior, it looks more like someone trying to pocket someone else to me, and it makes sense because of exactly what you said, Epi being her spouse will carry more weight with the group. So if she could pocket him it would help her more as a baddie. Civ's don't need to pocket others, baddies do. And it sure looks like she is trying to pocket Epi to me.

The only point I was trying to make is that maybe she's grabbing at a lifeline because she feels like she's drowning; when my girlfriend and I play together usually I'm happy to form my reads and go my own ways but whenever I'm feeling overwhelmed or particularly frustrated than I tend to follow her like a lost puppy.

I understand the point you're making and will probably follow up with it once I have the slightest idea once I'm talking about again.

I'm an awesome swimmer (just ask Sir) and I'm definitely not feeling like I am drowning.

@daisy - can you explain what you mean by sheeping other's opinions? And then give me examples where I did that?

[Elohcin]

And...I don;t think I addressed Sir Epi often before today.

[Nachomamma8]

I keep getting murdered. Have mercy, baddies.

I'm gonna put my vote down on Luffy. I've got other plans for this afternoon that don't involve waiting around to talk to someone who might not even show up.

So far the entirety of your DDL suspicion that I can see is nothing, unless I missed something. I don't like how you're resigned to vote him early in the day but put no effort in convincing others/selling your case; I think we talked about this earlier, but I don't think it's the mindset of a town Quin.

I stated quite a few times I intended to vote for him on Day 1. It was an invitation for him to come in and have a conversation. He simply wasn't around. As for not selling my case, I didn't have one at the time. It was a fair level of distrust that I thought was deserving of a Day 1 vote.

I'm playing the burglary, so this is it for me for now.

I don't see how saying that you're going to vote for a person is somehow inviting them to come have a conversation.
Bringing up what's bothering you specifically, sure, but the only real response to a bare "I'm going to vote you" is "have a good time, see you after I flip green".

[Nachomamma8]

Daisy is town! Hopefully!

[Nachomamma8]

I meant to post that like 4 times but forgot.

[Spacedaisy]

I like that it's Day 2 and I already have a decent number of people on the Nice list.

I need to work on my Naughty list.

Long Con, your name is on one of these lists.

Do you mind sharing your naughty and nice lists?

@LC, why do you think DDL is bad?

Effective immediately, Sprityo is replacing Glorfindel.

And yeah, dead members of factions win too.

I have to wonder why Sprit replaced Glor. Glor was pretty active. I know glor has a hard time being mafia, so maybe it was too much pressure.

This is all I have to go on right now, unfortunately. So, *voting Sprit*

I think there are much more significant topics being discussed right now which make for better votes than than voting based on a flimsy hypothesis on why someone might have subbed out.

Then, please...tell me what they are. I missed about 16 pages that I simply don;t have time to read. DDL was the only one to post a summary for me and he said there wasn't much there. So...I just started where I came at.

Yeah sounds nice, but when you're gut only wants to talk about one person, simply choosing someone else is not so easy. Nice avoidance of my question though. Duly noted.

I am rescinding my civilian opinion of you after that.

I didn't avoid your question. I gave you an an answer that will help me develop my opinion on you better, and I'd say it did the trick.

SD's response got me wondering about her as well. I actually though your reply to her was surprisingly kind for you. And then her response smelled of baddie.

WOAH.....from last night til this morning....EIGHT pages. Y'all are killing me. I've got to go get to work.

Yeah these were both from before the curse. I still don't lean civ on you. I just have to decide if I lean indy or bad at this point.

What I mean is you don't introduce new cases or reasons to suspect someone, or a personal observation, you mostly just agree with other people's cases that they have presented and maybe try and push it a bit from there, but you never push anything with much vigor. That is what I mean.

Linki @Nacho: I am town, yes. But no one should take my word for it, they can assess my game and decide for him/herself. Glad you believe in me though, seeing as I also believe you to be town, lol.

[Quin]

I keep getting murdered. Have mercy, baddies.

I'm gonna put my vote down on Luffy. I've got other plans for this afternoon that don't involve waiting around to talk to someone who might not even show up.

So far the entirety of your DDL suspicion that I can see is nothing, unless I missed something. I don't like how you're resigned to vote him early in the day but put no effort in convincing others/selling your case; I think we talked about this earlier, but I don't think it's the mindset of a town Quin.

I stated quite a few times I intended to vote for him on Day 1. It was an invitation for him to come in and have a conversation. He simply wasn't around. As for not selling my case, I didn't have one at the time. It was a fair level of distrust that I thought was deserving of a Day 1 vote.

I'm playing the burglary, so this is it for me for now.

I don't see how saying that you're going to vote for a person is somehow inviting them to come have a conversation.
Bringing up what's bothering you specifically, sure, but the only real response to a bare "I'm going to vote you" is "have a good time, see you after I flip green".

If I read a post saying 'Hey, I intend to vote for Quin today', I'd feel pretty confident that they'd have something to talk about.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm liking Epi a lot more.
Him townreading Daisy around where I'm townreading Daisy shouldn't be a reason for me to like him but it is.

[Nachomamma8]

If I read a post saying 'Hey, I intend to vote for Quin today', I'd feel pretty confident that they'd have something to talk about.

If you have something to talk about, why not just say it?

[Epignosis]

Hi Epi!
Can you talk about why you think your wife is trying to kill you while I'm trying to catch up? It might make fighting the good fight go a bit smoother!

I will try.

The previous narrative has always been that Eloh likes BTSC. She still does- but she got caught a time or two when bad being too involved in the thread. Moving and family notwithstanding, all of this feels like a deliberate attempt to circumvent that narrative.

I don't want to get in trouble for saying that her clueless posts look contrived.

[Quin]

If I read a post saying 'Hey, I intend to vote for Quin today', I'd feel pretty confident that they'd have something to talk about.

If you have something to talk about, why not just say it?

I just didn't. I figured he'd just show up and talk, so I got lazy.

[Spacedaisy]

Can I get some other people's opinions on Snow Dog and Zebra as well? It is easier to interact with Elo since she is here but I don't want a runaway train simply because the others are not and those two are my other possible votes at this point within this smaller lynch poll...

[Nachomamma8]

Snow Dog I've wanted to vote all game. Zebra I don't really have an opinion.

[Nachomamma8]

My case is that you used language which allows you to state suspicion on someone without commiting to it. The fact day 1 was already done for you doesn't undermine that, because the game has more than one day. Long term planning exists. What exactly was going over your mind if you were bad is something I won't bother to speculate on, because that's too difficult for me to determine. I'm just pointing out that your posts could be part of a bad agenda.

As I said; there's no motivation for me to be non-committal in my scum-hunting when there's two scum teams. I'd need to eliminate them as a priority, because they'd have two opportunities to kill me versus the townie's one. Long-term planning indeed.

But the other baddie team would have more incentive to kill you when you're murdering all of their friends.

[Epignosis]

Elo...

A couple things stand out to me regarding Elo. She seems to be sheeping a lot. And she seems to be buddying up to Epi. I don't mean the Sir thing either. I mean she is specifically asking him in particular for opinions and stuff. I don't recall seeing her doing that in the past. But she does try to pocket him when she is bad, and who could blame her. I've done the same to my husband. People tend to put more stock in a spouse/SO read of you.

Another thing I found concerning was her flip flop, before Dom flipped she was gunning for me and Quin. Then Dom flipped and she was all, "oh I should look at who started this train." Just such an easy flip flop, it makes me uncomfortable with her. Most votes are not that clear cut to sort out who on them was good and bad, and it feels like an attempt to pin something onto an easy lynch that doesn't affect her.

Leaning bad on Elo. Possibly Indy though.

I guess I could start talking to Sir about things unrelated to the game instead.

Sir, your chili tonight was wonderful. I looked forward to it all day.

It was.

Sir, would you like to watch a tv show together later after the kids go to bed?

That's fine.

Sir, you sure have a whole bunch of yellow shirts. Ever notice that?

I have three.

Does this make you less suspicious of me, Daisy? I just figured when I call him Sir, it should be game related. I could check with our host, if you'd like. But I'm pretty sure that the baddies had game-related "Sir"s in mind too.

There are two Mafia teams.

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't understand what Elo was getting at when she said that baddies had game-related "Sirs" as well.

[Quin]

My case is that you used language which allows you to state suspicion on someone without commiting to it. The fact day 1 was already done for you doesn't undermine that, because the game has more than one day. Long term planning exists. What exactly was going over your mind if you were bad is something I won't bother to speculate on, because that's too difficult for me to determine. I'm just pointing out that your posts could be part of a bad agenda.

As I said; there's no motivation for me to be non-committal in my scum-hunting when there's two scum teams. I'd need to eliminate them as a priority, because they'd have two opportunities to kill me versus the townie's one. Long-term planning indeed.

But the other baddie team would have more incentive to kill you when you're murdering all of their friends.

And? I've got three other teammates I'm also actively trying to set up for success in that case.

[Spacedaisy]

LMAO, I missed the yellow shirts comment and that makes me laugh. And reminds me of Seinfeld's "Golden Boy"

Nacho, her point was she was specifically asking for Epi's input because she had been cursed to call him Sir, so she was trying to find game related reasons to address him as Sir.

[Nachomamma8]

My case is that you used language which allows you to state suspicion on someone without commiting to it. The fact day 1 was already done for you doesn't undermine that, because the game has more than one day. Long term planning exists. What exactly was going over your mind if you were bad is something I won't bother to speculate on, because that's too difficult for me to determine. I'm just pointing out that your posts could be part of a bad agenda.

As I said; there's no motivation for me to be non-committal in my scum-hunting when there's two scum teams. I'd need to eliminate them as a priority, because they'd have two opportunities to kill me versus the townie's one. Long-term planning indeed.

But the other baddie team would have more incentive to kill you when you're murdering all of their friends.

And? I've got three other teammates I'm also actively trying to set up for success in that case.

Your initial argument is that non-committal scumhunting wasn't a baddie tell because the other scum team had two chances to kill you versus a civilian's one, which is an argument that doesn't exactly hold water.

[Epignosis]

Assuming three things:

First, Eloh is bad.

Second, Mafias aren't self-targeting.

Third, the VP curses someone.

This would mean that Eloh would have had to be with the troupe and would have had to have thrown sprityo2 under the bus when she could have saved him. I'm not especially comfortable believing that.

[Nachomamma8]

Assuming three things:

First, Eloh is bad.

Second, Mafias aren't self-targeting.

Third, the VP curses someone.

This would mean that Eloh would have had to be with the troupe and would have had to have thrown sprityo2 under the bus when she could have saved him. I'm not especially comfortable believing that.

Why wouldn't Mafias self-target?

[Nachomamma8]

I would 100% give a scumpartner a post restriction if I had the ability; I think that assuming mafia won't target each other (especially with provable actions) is making a pretty bad assumption most days.

[Epignosis]

Assuming three things:

First, Eloh is bad.

Second, Mafias aren't self-targeting.

Third, the VP curses someone.

This would mean that Eloh would have had to be with the troupe and would have had to have thrown sprityo2 under the bus when she could have saved him. I'm not especially comfortable believing that.

Why wouldn't Mafias self-target?

That's why I listed that as an assumption. It isn't a fact.

[Quin]

My case is that you used language which allows you to state suspicion on someone without commiting to it. The fact day 1 was already done for you doesn't undermine that, because the game has more than one day. Long term planning exists. What exactly was going over your mind if you were bad is something I won't bother to speculate on, because that's too difficult for me to determine. I'm just pointing out that your posts could be part of a bad agenda.

As I said; there's no motivation for me to be non-committal in my scum-hunting when there's two scum teams. I'd need to eliminate them as a priority, because they'd have two opportunities to kill me versus the townie's one. Long-term planning indeed.

But the other baddie team would have more incentive to kill you when you're murdering all of their friends.

And? I've got three other teammates I'm also actively trying to set up for success in that case.

Your initial argument is that non-committal scumhunting wasn't a baddie tell because the other scum team had two chances to kill you versus a civilian's one, which is an argument that doesn't exactly hold water.

No it wasn't. My initial argument was that nobody is being non-committal in their scum hunting because there are two baddie teams.

[Nachomamma8]

Assuming three things:

First, Eloh is bad.

Second, Mafias aren't self-targeting.

Third, the VP curses someone.

This would mean that Eloh would have had to be with the troupe and would have had to have thrown sprityo2 under the bus when she could have saved him. I'm not especially comfortable believing that.

Why wouldn't Mafias self-target?

That's why I listed that as an assumption. It isn't a fact.

Better question: why would we assume that?

[Nachomamma8]

My case is that you used language which allows you to state suspicion on someone without commiting to it. The fact day 1 was already done for you doesn't undermine that, because the game has more than one day. Long term planning exists. What exactly was going over your mind if you were bad is something I won't bother to speculate on, because that's too difficult for me to determine. I'm just pointing out that your posts could be part of a bad agenda.

As I said; there's no motivation for me to be non-committal in my scum-hunting when there's two scum teams. I'd need to eliminate them as a priority, because they'd have two opportunities to kill me versus the townie's one. Long-term planning indeed.

But the other baddie team would have more incentive to kill you when you're murdering all of their friends.

And? I've got three other teammates I'm also actively trying to set up for success in that case.

Your initial argument is that non-committal scumhunting wasn't a baddie tell because the other scum team had two chances to kill you versus a civilian's one, which is an argument that doesn't exactly hold water.

No it wasn't. My initial argument was that nobody is being non-committal in their scum hunting because there are two baddie teams.

Doesn't really fix the argument; the flaw exists whether it's you or everyone.

[Nachomamma8]

Merry Christmas 'yall. I'm here for a few hours and then I'll likely just be lurking from my phone while my relatives are over for the afternoon.

My vote's probably going to go to Luffy again. I didn't get anything from our conversation to steer me away from that idea.

Doesn't seem like Luffy's in the cards today without a bit of pushing or prodding; is it okay that you're parking your vote in nowheresville or are you expecting Providence?

You don't know me at all, do you?

I don't! At the time it felt like you were following through on your vote because it was your SUSPICION; doesn't feel any different on skimthrough #2.

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't do much anyway, but now I'll definitely be phone posting while we do Christmas things.

I voted for DDL. I think he's bad.

Spoiler: show

And with that, I'm gonna vote LC in order to attempt to put another option in the table.

Despite voting for you first time round I have good feelings about you. I won't be voting for you this time.

Spoiler: show

What's the advantage of random voting at all?

If you're not the determiner, you might as well not vote.

If you are the determiner....you want to determine who should die randomly?

Not voting as any kind of deliberate choice is very much frowned upon in our history.

Having said that, I generally agree that any slight read is better than randomising.

I'm not convinced it was entirely random, though. Perhaps random within a pool, or perhaps not random at all.

linki - what kind of cookie?

It wasn't entirely random i confess. It was a straight choice between DDL and Jack. The two guys who wanted me lynched. I chose DDL because I read somewhere that he was more likely bad.
I was tired, I needed to go to bed and I had to vote. Plus I wanted to give a nod to Vompatti's playstyle as I had done DrWilgy earlier.

And if he's bad, Snow Dog is his teammate.

This business is too obvious for Quin's sophistication.

Could you explain your Snow Dog - DDL connection or direct me to where you have already?

[Quin]

My case is that you used language which allows you to state suspicion on someone without commiting to it. The fact day 1 was already done for you doesn't undermine that, because the game has more than one day. Long term planning exists. What exactly was going over your mind if you were bad is something I won't bother to speculate on, because that's too difficult for me to determine. I'm just pointing out that your posts could be part of a bad agenda.

As I said; there's no motivation for me to be non-committal in my scum-hunting when there's two scum teams. I'd need to eliminate them as a priority, because they'd have two opportunities to kill me versus the townie's one. Long-term planning indeed.

But the other baddie team would have more incentive to kill you when you're murdering all of their friends.

And? I've got three other teammates I'm also actively trying to set up for success in that case.

Your initial argument is that non-committal scumhunting wasn't a baddie tell because the other scum team had two chances to kill you versus a civilian's one, which is an argument that doesn't exactly hold water.

No it wasn't. My initial argument was that nobody is being non-committal in their scum hunting because there are two baddie teams.

Doesn't really fix the argument; the flaw exists whether it's you or everyone.

Yes it does, because the concept is entirely different. If it's your interpretation, there are baddies that aren't scum hunting. That doesn't make sense because for starters, one team deciding if they want to leave the other team alive, lynch them, or night kill them is definitely on the table. If it's mine, that's not an issue because all baddies are scum hunting.

[Nachomamma8]

There are people who are posting less/scumhunting less than they would otherwise because they are afraid of dying by the other team via nightkill.

[Quin]

There are people who are posting less/scumhunting less than they would otherwise because they are afraid of dying by the other team via nightkill.

Who are they?

[Epignosis]

Assuming three things:

First, Eloh is bad.

Second, Mafias aren't self-targeting.

Third, the VP curses someone.

This would mean that Eloh would have had to be with the troupe and would have had to have thrown sprityo2 under the bus when she could have saved him. I'm not especially comfortable believing that.

Why wouldn't Mafias self-target?

That's why I listed that as an assumption. It isn't a fact.

Better question: why would we assume that?

You don't have to assume that. I'm not asking you to assume that. But that assumption has to be false if Eloh is bad and not with the troupe.

If the Mafia did target one of their own with a curse, then what mileage are they getting out of it? She can still post normally- she just apparently has to be super respectful to me refer to me as a certain role.