The Syndicate

Problem solved! I almost did that this morning too, actually.

For the reasons I said during the game. She just sounded insincere. That one post felt manipulative to me. I just didn’t believe that she believed what she was saying, I guess.

I didn’t know it, but I believed it.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2025 10:59 am I had SVS as my biggest suspect for townvig. The way she pushed Wisdom more than anyone else and was the last person to leave the Wisdom wagon made me go "oh yeah SVS shot wisdom" as soon as the kill happened.

I was trying to vig her for a while. I didn’t realize it was a day kill, so I tried to NK her, but *day kill*. So I tried to kill her in the first half of day two, but Epi said it wouldn’t happen till the end. By the time it actually happened, I was beginning to doubt ha ha

Spoiler: show

I wondered that too, Jules. Only thing I could think of was in my last reads list I had Jibay at the bottom for reasons other than quiet.

Glad town finally got there, it was a great debut game for Jibay!

A lot of people think that way, I'm an outlier.

I like talking to people about their meta, and if i have specific tells, I tell them. I think it makes future games more challenging, and makes my opponents better opponents. But i might be the only person who thinks that way ha ha

But this said, ^^ I think what Lime said is true of him. He shoots out one liner reads alot, especially early in games.

I could see how two days of town yeets, especially with one of them being a protection role, (even with the N1 fail NK), could give us some happy dance wolves.

Then a wolf daykilled, followed by a *second* night of No NK, could lead to some demoralized wolves Day 3.

As I said already, my top coming into today was Dunya, it still is. So imma [VOTE: Dunya] aubergine and take my morning back.

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 8:02 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 7:58 pm Juliets is the mod, and if she was discussing anything with anyone, we would not know about it.
You're so right about the second point but I'm not the mod sorry! JPIC is the mod for this game! Hi everyone!

Ha ha sorry, I thought it was you cause I see you following sometimes!

Juliets is the mod, and if she was discussing anything with anyone, we would not know about it.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:34 am
dunya wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 5:22 pm [VOTE: le petit] aubergine

Derp clear rejected
My first reaction to this is "townie" but it's honestly the opposite.

Like LPP is like "Lol this gamestate," which is a townie mindset.

Dunya is like "killkillkill" which is not the mindset of a townie when town PRs have prevented two kills and offed a wolf.

Spoiler: show
I swear this is a real thing from my head and not just because Dunya called me 3P for not pushing her.

This is how I read this as well. It felt organic and towny when I saw LPPs derp. My reaction to it was "did you see the post" rather than

so my gut read of it was "town"

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 5:54 pm Jack just an FYI I do care about read accuracy, but at this rate with the treatment I've been given this game and your stupid ass post....I just want you dead.

This on the other hand ... I really want to see what Thunal is seeing but ... your vote is becasue he said "yuck" to you?

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:55 am what does everyone think about spacedaisy

another null in my head

Towny.

~~~~~
Random read, after reading through page 26, I kinda solidified my town read on Long Con. I thought he was Chaos Goblining, but he's not imo and that's all I'mma say about that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Spoiler: show

Based on my current thoughts, and the current wagons, I won't be voting for Jack.

I am fairly close to Scottys list. Same POE *except* what i noted earlier re Thunal, I don't see bad Thunal reacting to me that way. She's maybe not my top town anymore, but I don't know that I think she's bad.

No plans to vote for Scotty, DDL, Daisy, LPP, Syn unless there is a substantial change. The same really goes for Jack.
I can see a towny reason for LC playing as he is, but he could also be 3 P. I don't think he's a baddie, though. I don't think Rox is bad, either tbh.

Nook and Jibay yeah. I disliked that one Jibay vote, but it could have been Nub.

I'm obvs trusting someone I shouldn't.

Spoiler: show

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 7:30 am
S~V~S wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:57 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 7:58 pm [VOTE: Roxy] aubergine
There was discussion of maybe low posters = mafia further up ^^ .

Night one we had a protector and a jailor (block/protect).
Night two we had the Jailor.

During the night on Night 1, the host posted:

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:19 pm Added "No self-targeting" to the rules. That's an oversight on my part.
Which isn't a guarantee that someone tried to self target night 1, but if so, the listed role most likely to self target is the Protection role, and thus was active N1. Although there are also secrets for one of the baddies and the 3P role, so possible.

Also, Jibay has fewer posts than Roxy, and Nook only has 2 more, and most are from Day 2. Nook had a gap from Weds afternoon to Saturday evening, during which Night 1 happened. Day 2 he voted for you, and that's where most of his posts are.

None of that is to say either of those people seem bad to me, especially not for this reason; just that if i were to vote someone based on potential low show baddies, I would have picked one of those two over Roxy.

So why Roxy, specifically? Did you read her? She didn't have a crazy number of posts but they had plenty of real content, she voted for the known (now) baddie Day 1. If I was voting low posters on Day 3 due to no kills (there are 3 baddies who could have sent it Day 1, and 2 on Day 2) I'd vote either the guy who didn't post for 3 calendar days or the one who is playing his first game and doesn't seem overly invested over Roxy, who has a towny footprint.

You obvs read her posts, you posted this at Day 2 (and voted for her 12 hours later without ever mentioning her inbetween).

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 7:02 am Roxy still isn't obvious town to me but that might be me fucking that one up.
I see you changed your vote, but seeing that you even made it gives me feels and they aren't good ones.

You have zero posts about Scotty between this:

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 7:50 am Yeah would yeet Roxy or Falcon over someone like Scotty.
And your vote for him. I'm not understanding you at all.

And all this took up my AM Mafia time. As always may or may not be around during work.

I already explained the Scotty part, but the Roxy issue and the stuff I have bolded and underlined for you.

First of all, it's great that now the game of me getting N1'd got brought up so like...I see your name on here and for some reason I had the thought process of "I think I misvoted SVS out when she was town in a past game because I didn't feel like she was towny in that game."
Of course the subject of me getting N1'd came up and I checked and yeah my belief was true and I did fuck up on you in a past game...

So here's the thing... this game I've been saying that I don't feel like Roxy is towny... that's just been the gist of my read.

Typically when Roxy and I are town together, I've found her and townread her with total ease and I rarely second guessed them, much like my read on you SVS.
And I like finding her when she's town because she has good reads.

But the fact that I fucked up on YOU in the past weighs in on my mind and now here I'm thinking "Am I fucking up on Roxy here now like I did with SVS?"
And it's why I'm currently hesitating on voting her because I don't want to be wrong on there and feel bad about it...especially since the read has gone on for multiple day phases.

I get this, Lime, this is actually how I felt about both LC and Falcon for some time in past games, I grossly misread them, and got them yeeted when they were town, and it's also why I'm avoiding Jack in *this* game, cause the last time I played with him, I grossly misread him, went hardcore, and basically hounded him into a yeet. So I 100% get this, thanks for the explanation.

I do not really get why if you're so sure on Jack, though, you voted for two people before him today

I'm getting the feel that this is a reactionary vote, rather than otherwise. I won't be voting for Jack today (unless there is some big change like he wolf slips or something) not becasue of that ^^ that I said up there, but becasue I think he's prolly town.

Back to catching up.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:11 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:00 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 3:30 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:25 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:24 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:19 pm Why does every fucking game has to turn like this? Legit I can't catch a single fucking break and play a single fucking game without getting massively pissed off fucking hell
[VOTE: dunya] aubergine

There, how bout now
No, kill Jack.
It's the second time someone unvotes you to vote dunya instead, and you take issue with it. Why not dunya?

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:26 pm Let's... let's do what he says, and kill Jack. Right?
No. It's Lime or dunya. If Lime is town, he can't be too opposed to killing dunya, whose alignment he does not know for sure.
It's because I townread her strongly and I don't want her dead...fucking hell I'd rather you actually kill me and not kill her in the game at this rate.
Why do you townread Dunya strongly?

This ^^^ is it a meta thing or what?

So coming into today, my top two people for Wisdom equity were Dunya and Thunal.

I still call town on Thunal for the general way she's playing, but also this post. She made it less than a minute after I posted the post she's reacting to, and I 100% do not see Thunal making this post if bad. She's annoyed at me, this is a Thunal version of "WTF SVS?". She reacted to my post without thinking about it, and I just don't see bad Thunal doing that.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:43 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:42 pm It's tied again.

I don't think any of them are particularly bad.
You literally just had me as your top townread. How do you not think me being tied for top wagon is bad?

I tried to keep up today. I don't know what to think of Lime, or of LC, with his chaos thing egging Lime on. I'm not sure if Lime actually susses Jack, or if he's just trying to set up a non-him and non-Dunya wagon.

GTH if I was going to vote now it would be Dunya. But I need to reread today better than I did trying to keep up when i had a few secs at work.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 7:03 am @S~V~S

I kinda just... changed my mind on a random wim basically?

The problem I'm having is/was that I had my towns on Day 1 and sorta followed it on Day 2... however the people outside of my townreads I didn't feel were correct vote outs for reasons... mainly vibes. Plus I sorta helped get 2 towns voted out so... yeah kinda threw a name in and voted it and Scotty felt like a good vote when I did it.

i didn't vote for you, did I? But that vote did jump out at me, yeah. It forced me to form an opinion. Which is good, yes?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:49 am

SVS... guessing town but I'm side eyeing because how do you not have a read on me when I'm top wagon every day phase?

I was worrying about my own suspect (which you yourself voted for Day one), and you were not top wagon, cause here you are, alive and not dead, on Day 3.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:07 pm ~snip~

Lime~ has his own line. Maybe Orange?

I see why some think he's bad, and i liked DDls theory quite a bit, and that was predicated on Lime being bad. But Thunal seems pretty adamant about him.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:55 pm
~snip~
Also Lime; he feels more towny than not to me, but in recent games i read him that way, and he was bad. I don't think my opinion of him has much value, tbh.

You're a hard read for me in general. I formed my read basis of you when you were bad every game for like months, and you were aggravated over it. So I equate edgy or even pissy Lime with bad Lime. So i probably have to revise how I read you.

Now I'm really gonna be late lol.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 7:58 pm [VOTE: Roxy] aubergine

There was discussion of maybe low posters = mafia further up ^^ .

Night one we had a protector and a jailor (block/protect).
Night two we had the Jailor.

During the night on Night 1, the host posted:

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:19 pm Added "No self-targeting" to the rules. That's an oversight on my part.

Which isn't a guarantee that someone tried to self target night 1, but if so, the listed role most likely to self target is the Protection role, and thus was active N1. Although there are also secrets for one of the baddies and the 3P role, so possible.

Also, Jibay has fewer posts than Roxy, and Nook only has 2 more, and most are from Day 2. Nook had a gap from Weds afternoon to Saturday evening, during which Night 1 happened. Day 2 he voted for you, and that's where most of his posts are.

None of that is to say either of those people seem bad to me, especially not for this reason; just that if i were to vote someone based on potential low show baddies, I would have picked one of those two over Roxy.

So why Roxy, specifically? Did you read her? She didn't have a crazy number of posts but they had plenty of real content, she voted for the known (now) baddie Day 1. If I was voting low posters on Day 3 due to no kills (there are 3 baddies who could have sent it Day 1, and 2 on Day 2) I'd vote either the guy who didn't post for 3 calendar days or the one who is playing his first game and doesn't seem overly invested over Roxy, who has a towny footprint.

You obvs read her posts, you posted this at Day 2 (and voted for her 12 hours later without ever mentioning her inbetween).

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 7:02 am Roxy still isn't obvious town to me but that might be me fucking that one up.

I see you changed your vote, but seeing that you even made it gives me feels and they aren't good ones.

You have zero posts about Scotty between this:

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 7:50 am Yeah would yeet Roxy or Falcon over someone like Scotty.

And your vote for him. I'm not understanding you at all.

And all this took up my AM Mafia time. As always may or may not be around during work.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 7:51 pm If you people think my big post is too big (it is), I suggest you read the text in front of the "GTH", then read the above if you want more details. Alternatively, just ISO the people yourselves. You should all be doing that anyway. And feel free to ISO me too, since I can't do that.

But really, interactions with Wisdom are the biggest piece of evidence we should all be looking at.

Two thumbs up here, I don't share all of your conclusions, but if we all had the same thoughts, this whole thing would be boring and pointless.

Now I gotta stop tangenting and just read.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 6:32 pm I think Wisdom would remember to send in the kill n1 even if her teammates didn't. I'd guess it's successful protections or blocks, not just forgetting to submit.

I kind of want to buy LPP's derp clear. LC is strong town to me after EoD yesterday, and SVS is strong town because of her Wisdom push.

I have seen Rox floated as potentially bad becasue of the no kill, but I would doubt that, at least for that reasoning.

She is a responsible person, and will send in her PM if she has one. I saw her in a game once with a bad teammate, who didn't come to chat, who sent in team decisions with no discussion, and who basically went rogue in thread, and Roxy must have been at wits end (I heard this post game as i was playing) and i know she was super annoyed, but she did what she had to do and sent in her PM's.

So if she is bad (and tbh, I don't think she is) it isn't for that reason.

Seeing Wisdom flip bad gave me some feels, about how baddies act when they think they are safe.

I have to process all that, and read more to see who looks like they could be teamed with Wisdom as a good place for me to start.

The two people who felt most teamed with Wisdom to me, in retrospect, are Thunal and Dunya. I don't think they're teamed with each other, though.

In my first list, Dunya was prolly town, but I missed her on my second. Thunal I had as lean town first list, and firm town the second.

For overall various reasons I still feel townier re Thunal, but i plan to iso both.

I do think that whoever might have been teamies with Wisdom was fairly familiar with me, since she pocketed me somewhat, and I can be susceptible to that. Plus she was one of the people who responded when DDL asked, "Why is SVS town?"

@Dragon D. Luffy I read that towncore, at least as it related to me, as pocketing. But it could be possible.

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:06 pm ~snip~

Speaking of mech talk, however, we CAN include some of that, given that this is a non-mountainous open setup. Maybe we can cook up some Town advantages.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:55 pm I was looking through the roles, and I found a couple of things:
~snip~

Kip

Training to be a cage fighter, but in the meantime, chatting with babes on the Internet.

Each Night, you will search for LaFawnduh. If you find her, you will gain BTSC.

LaFawnduh

Yes, I love technology. But not as much as you, you see. But I still love technology. Always and forever.

Each Night, you can send Kip a private message (through the Host) a name who isn’t LaFawnduh. You’re playing hard to get.

To LaFawnduh: Send Kip the name that is one name below yours tonight. Then he will know who you are.

The first post, from early game, and the last post, from late in the day yesterday, solidified a strong town feel, to my mind. This was very much a thing town did where we came from, and i view LC trying to start that talk up as definitely protown.

Like I said before, I hope LaFawnduh saw it, too.

You got it

Le petit poussin wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 6:17 pm @SVS: now I do. I took daisy's post smh.

pockety because I dunno, I found your description of my last scum game here was a bit too much. But that's maybe a me thing.

What, that's not pockety. I thought you were fabulous. I KNEW you were bad, but I couldn't prove it. I admire good baddieism. But I am also prone to hyperbole words (like LC

me over "terrifying" ha ha) so yeah.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 5:37 pm The third option is that the kills were never sent in on either night, because the whole Wolf team is not on the ball. Which is why I said Jibay/NANOOK/Roxy, the lowest-posters, with Roxy an additional angle of her leaving the thread angrily. Was she upset about being caught as a Wolf, and failed to return in time to put a kill in, and with Wisdom gone, only Jibay was left to take care of business, but didn't realize?

We had a protector (sorry Moto) and also a jail keeper. Wisdom was active Day 1 and Day 2, they could have sent Night 1. We had two possibilities for a kill off the table N1, and 1 N2.

So odds are good they just got really unlucky.

Your suggestion that LaFawnduh send the name of a specific person was a really good one. I hope she did it.

K, dinner and then more reading. xox

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 5:51 pm @S~V~S yes I defend people when I am town. I don't recall what specifically I defended about Wisdom, but I'll iso myself and try to remember lol.

If your question was different, please let me know.

No that was it, I had asked you yesterday, and I meant to bump it but then EOD.

Le petit poussin wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2025 5:14 pm This might be a shit vote, will see down the road.

A bit concerned by Lime Coke's behaviour at EOD2 (lurking, selfpressing onto motobot on top of my head. prolly need to check if he posted about that slot heh)

I think SVS has been a bit underwhelming (well I am page 6 on reread) and a tidy bit pockety, so she could use a reread too.

Think dunya is ok. daisy town. Wisdom is hitting their town notes but I'll prolly get a better feel if we can interact live.

Liked Jack's early posting.

I had a tinfoil about Long Con since their posting was kindof different from the one game I played with him (was a woof, him va villager), but on reread he looks villagery to me (surface level read but still, good tone, free floating, probbing. good for me rn).

Something about Scotty.

Pockety of whom?

My town reads, telling them I town read them?

You realize Wisdom died and was a baddie, yes?

I have to do some rereading, my reads list has shuffled quite a bit with Wisdom flipping wolf.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:25 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:19 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:17 pm This is Jibay's first online Mafia game, but he's played at live parties before... is that accurate?
yes, he has played warewolf with the seer etc in live parties before (like 7 player short games only). this is his first forum mafia game, and first time playing it in english.
I just asked Lime a question about you, and let me ask you.

Do you normally defend people as a townie? This game you have defended Wisdom (who notable me, but also other) have suspected, and also Lime. But then, someone who i clearly think is town has also done both.

I didn't put you into my list, cause i wasn't sure where to put you tbh.

@Dunya, I asked you this yesterday, if you saw it I missed it.

Yay no NK, and nice job Tina!

I have questions, be back when home, hour or so.

[VOTE: Motobot] aubergine

I voted Motobot. I would have preferred jibay but no one else is on that page.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:46 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:43 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:42 pm It's tied again.

I don't think any of them are particularly bad.
You literally just had me as your top townread. How do you not think me being tied for top wagon is bad?
I think the word "bad" is being used as "wolf" here.

yeah, baddie.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:45 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:43 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:42 pm It's tied again.

I don't think any of them are particularly bad.
You literally just had me as your top townread. How do you not think me being tied for top wagon is bad?
I'm telling you, SVS and Long Con as wolf teammates.

I'm going to see how this develops but I am not a big fan of Thunal being on the chopping block here.

What? And neither am I, I am trying to decide who to vote for, Syn or Lime. I don't particularly think either is more obvs bad.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:43 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:42 pm It's tied again.

I don't think any of them are particularly bad.
You literally just had me as your top townread. How do you not think me being tied for top wagon is bad?

Cool your jets hun.

I'm trying to decide what to do.

It's tied again.

I don't think any of them are particularly bad.

Roxy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 4:10 pm I'm being left off lists entirely

And now I've been told I'm cold bc I responded to a post and someone agreed with that who actually knows me.

This game is not fun when you are told you are cold so to that end

vote myself

Rox, game people and real people are not the same. I'm sorry if i hurt your feelings, it is never the intention.

Also you're on my list.

SVS said~ I'm at~

Town~
Thunal
DDL
Daisy

Green Lean

Scotty (you always sound so reasonable to me, until you turn on me, so I always have a bit of wiggle room with you)
Syn
Roxy

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:47 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:56 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:04 pm
Le petit poussin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 10:35 am
gth Lime Coke is town lol. (it's just I find he hit the soft spot of ATEing - "omg my reads have sucked balls lately I've lost all my mojo" - just enough that I find it real. A bit more and I'd just vote him in oblivion but I kinda liked that string of posts)

That being said, it's still a pretty weak read so I am opening his ISO now that I have a bit of time.
Same tbh.

But the thing is, there is a good chance Lime is wolf and yet was still honest about his emotions there.

We need to normalize the idea that wolves can be honest.

Actually never mind, don't normalize that, it helps me win games as a wolf.
Honest?
Yeah. Just because you are a wolf doesn't mean you have to be dishonest all the time. Wolves have feelings too, and if those feelings aren't specifically a desire to make town lose, you may as well show them to the town, and make friends with them.

Last game I played here as a wolf, I was honestly overwhelmed with the thread volume and feeling guilty about my inability to play the game properly. Why resorting to fake AtE when I had real, pallatable emotions I could express?

Oh 100%. I try to directly lie as little as possible when I'm bad. And i find those are usually the games I am at my wolfy best. I honestly feel bad about deceiving people in games.

Le petit poussin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:40 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:37 pm
Le petit poussin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:27 pm
Le petit poussin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:14 pm @SVS I do agree JiBay followed that vote too easily too fwiw. I don't get why u feel like u feel about your vote though, feel like expanding?
reposting just in case u missed it SVS
no I saw it, and thanks. I am trying to catch up to the past while also living in the present

Re my vote, I felt that Wisdom was being manipulative early on, bordering on AtE. Then her reaction to the sus did not feel really genuine to me; it felt too passive while still being manipulative. Saying things like, "I get it it, people sus me for playstyle all the time", which isn't at all what I was saying, and had the bonus of making me feel almost like a bully, like I was picking on her for Trivia. It's something I have been known to do myself to make people back off when I was bad :whistle:

It's totally a "feels" thing for me, but that's how I play for the most part. Someone makes me feel a certain way, then I pick apart their posts. Sometimes something jumps out of a post first, but usually it's feels.
oh lol.

thanks for the context around your vote (Ill get to Wisdom in a few so it's usefull anyway). but I was wondering about how you feel about MY vote on Syn (I made a typo in that post). u posted something along the line "feels like finding an excuse to vote" or something.

Oh OK, doh.

Your progression felt very meh to me. Your main observation of him was that he felt like he was just copy/pasting, phoning it in as it were. I don't recall the game, but I played on bad game with him where he was really involved, and in this game, it seems unless he had a no show partner, he would likely get a fun chat. I don't see where low involvement would make him bad. UNLESS you had more experience with him, that would be different. but you didn't say that.

It doesn't feel like you actually want to yeet him, it feels a bit half hearted. Not unlike what you said about him, now that I think about it. Like I said, it felt like you decided to vote for Syn, and then looked for a reason to explain it.

BUT it also feels little like the last game we played where you were bad, and played it with conviction.

Le petit poussin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:27 pm
Le petit poussin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:14 pm @SVS I do agree JiBay followed that vote too easily too fwiw. I don't get why u feel like u feel about your vote though, feel like expanding?
reposting just in case u missed it SVS

no I saw it, and thanks. I am trying to catch up to the past while also living in the present

Re my vote, I felt that Wisdom was being manipulative early on, bordering on AtE. Then her reaction to the sus did not feel really genuine to me; it felt too passive while still being manipulative. Saying things like, "I get it it, people sus me for playstyle all the time", which isn't at all what I was saying, and had the bonus of making me feel almost like a bully, like I was picking on her for Trivia. It's something I have been known to do myself to make people back off when I was bad :whistle:

It's totally a "feels" thing for me, but that's how I play for the most part. Someone makes me feel a certain way, then I pick apart their posts. Sometimes something jumps out of a post first, but usually it's feels.

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:19 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:17 pm This is Jibay's first online Mafia game, but he's played at live parties before... is that accurate?
yes, he has played warewolf with the seer etc in live parties before (like 7 player short games only). this is his first forum mafia game, and first time playing it in english.

I just asked Lime a question about you, and let me ask you.

Do you normally defend people as a townie? This game you have defended Wisdom (who notable me, but also other) have suspected, and also Lime. But then, someone who i clearly think is town has also done both.

I didn't put you into my list, cause i wasn't sure where to put you tbh.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 6:33 am A lot of me just wants to say "Please yeet the Dragon after you kill me" just because I feel like that push, and trying to link Dunya to me when I explained were always friendly with each other in games, is just bad and attempting to link us together to get 2 towns dead.

Idk how many will listen, hopefully some will if I ping so worth a try...
@dunya @Thunal33 @Jackofhearts2005 @Scotty @Long Con @S~V~S

And anyone else who chooses to believe... vote Dragon if I end up dying.

Not being you, I thought it was a good theory~ not so much the things said about you being friendly. I recall one game where you were annoyed iirc that you had signed up cause Dunya was playing, then she didn't play? So that's not a reason to sus you. But 100%, if either you (or in my mind, Wisdom, who I also felt she was defensive of) flipped town, that would give me MUCh less reason to sus her.

From your POV, is she usually someone who defends people as a townie? I know i do that at times, but I went on break while she was playing regularly, and she had stopped when I came back, so I have some but not much experience with Dunya.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:59 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:35 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:49 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 7:58 pm

Tina

Tina, you fat lard, come get some ham!

Tina doesn’t appreciate your disrespectful tone. Tina will break the fence one Day and trample to death one person if she chooses.
This is a fun role. Would be cool if it got out.
This is a good question. As I read, I'm revising my world view a bit. I really really like that post of DDLs. I saw Thunals vote and it surprised me, so i went out of order to look it up. I've seen her weave defensive posts, but I don't recall anything this blatant as what she's saying about Lime, when she's bad. Did she defend you or so directly in Lasso? I think of her as more subtle?

Spoiler: show
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 11:53 am
Le petit poussin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 11:52 am ngl that turnaround from Thunal on Lime Coke is something.

for record, her last post before I entered the thread.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 10:58 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 10:49 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 10:36 pm Nanook can have a town lean, I liked his process on Lime probably being mafia (I think due to his lack of content) and then checking the wagon next and getting bad vibes from it being the Falcon wagon. It reminds me of the reads I make as a spectator.
Is this solely about process, or do you agree with Nanook's conclusions?
I think Lime Coke has a good chance of being mafia and I’m not sure on Wisdom anymore. She had some stuff I thought was towny on d1 but I thought her moving off Falcon because of DADV was off.

then I post LC is town and:

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 11:20 am Never mind, Lime Coke is town. I’m going to be spending some time on figuring out a different vote.

hmmm (ngl I just witnessed Wisdom doing it as town in an offsite game but it still weirds me out lolol)
It’s not you posting Lime Coke was town at all, it’s because of Lime Coke’s recent posts and defense. I have played a lot of games with him.

So I would either resolve the other wagon, or go with one of Wisdom or Dunya because if Wisdom IS bad, I think Dunya could be, too. That's "now", this minute. I still have 3 pages to go. Also Dunya was potentially down as Limes partner in DDls post. Sh there are two, to me, valid worlds where she could be bad (I feel like Abigail, with all this talk of 'world views' lol).

The person i find towniest right now is Thunal. Her worldview keeps evolving and moving, and somewhat choppily. She'd be smoother if she was bad imo. She did a pretty hard volte face re Wisdom, which I don't see her doing if bad. But your insight here would be helpful to me re that.

This is where Dunya is discussing Wisdom with Thunal. If I ever get caught up, I want to read Dunya, Wisdom, Thunal, DDL. But that won't happen ha ha

Spoiler: show
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:08 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:54 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 5:38 pm
Syn wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 5:34 pm actually I do question thunal thinking falcon's post was outing. she's played like a hundred games and someone messing around on d1 when they're a lead wagon is almost never lolcatting/giving up
Actually, it usually has been in my experience. I just played a game where Lucchese self voted and gave up as mafia d1, and the game before that Pizza gave up and lolcatted after he was top wagon but it wasn’t set in stone and he flipped mafia.

I wasn’t sure Falcon was mafia and my thinking it was weird people didn’t think that post was outing was actually wondering if he was town and mafia had TMI so they didn’t treat it as outing. I thought it was a good guess Falcon was mafia and it upped his odds of being mafia quite a bit in my head, but it wasn’t a sure thing.
this seems overly wordy in a nervous way.
You're not wrong. I'm just town doing that. I dislike being pushed and having to defend myself as both alignments.

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:03 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 5:40 pm I’m a little bit sus of Wisdom’s response that town make those sort of posts all the time because at least on MU that’s not been my experience. @Wisdom could you please link a time you played where a town claimed mafia and gave up?
like, im sorry but again this feels a bit disgenuine too... you;'ve never seen a townie who was getting hammered be all salty and say "yep you got me?" and disappeared? could also be w/w distancing with this tbh, or giving wisdom an opportunity to pull receipts and not be sussed
You probably didn't read my later posts yet, but I just saw mafia give up the last two games I played. I even got vigged partly for not finding a "free" mafia that gave up the last game I played so my belief Falcon was mafia was probably an overcorrection to that. I have seen it from town in my life, but less often than from mafia.
And I think for now I'm trusting Thunal her and keeping my vote there.
The thing is I have been second guessing my Wisdom vote lol and now that I've looked at her ISO again I think I'll move off. One thing I came back to was her thinking she might have become a more manipulative person when you accused her of being manipulative. If she were mafia and was trying to be manipulative, would she really have that moment of introspection and wonder if she changed as a person?

Imma finish catching up and looking up peoples vote reasons.

Again everyone sorry for spacing on y'all.

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2025 11:18 am Very much whelmed with Long Con’s entrance into D2. My opinion was already blendy, and so far he’s feigned outrage at SVS using some choice words, try to get me on board of finding her suspicious for finding his behavior odd and not bothered to do more than that.

Current reads list as of mid day 2:

Town:
Space Daisy
DDL
moto

Townlean:
Syn
SVS
Roxy
Dunya

On the fence but ever so slightly town and need more digging:
Jack

Scumlean:
Thunal
Lime Coke
Le petit (until I hear more)
Jibay (until I hear more)
Nook (where are you)

Scumread:
Wisdom
Long Con

Hrm, now I really want to hear from you re Thunal. Your list is considerably different than mine, but you're more caught up.

I'm at~

Town~
Thunal
DDL
Daisy

Green Lean

Scotty (you always sound so reasonable to me, until you turn on me, so I always have a bit of wiggle room with you)
Syn
Roxy

3P Lean

LC, like i said, he feels neither fish nor fowl to me. I don't think he's actively bad.
Jack, cause he felt similar to LC to me. But i see he's one of the top posters now, and I haven't seem anything yet of his since i made my last list, I've been hopping around)

Null

Nook (I see he posted, but i haven't really read it yet)
Moto (I wanted to do what you said you did and go read other games, but didn't. You saying you did nulled him for me, I was red leaning him based on his vote previously)

Lime~ has his own line. Maybe Orange?

I see why some think he's bad, and i liked DDls theory quite a bit, and that was predicated on Lime being bad. But Thunal seems pretty adamant about him.

Reddish to Red

TPP~ I just read their posts. I think the vote for Syn sounds like a vote looking for an excuse.
Jibay seemed to follow TPPs vote too easily. Like at 12:50 Saturday, no Syn in the suspects:

Spoiler: show

24 hours later, with no Syn in between,

Spoiler: show

And Wisdom, who I have voted for and haven't decided to change it yet.

Will be here EOD, to move if warranted.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:49 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2025 7:58 pm

Tina

Tina, you fat lard, come get some ham!

Tina doesn’t appreciate your disrespectful tone. Tina will break the fence one Day and trample to death one person if she chooses.
This is a fun role. Would be cool if it got out.

This is a good question. As I read, I'm revising my world view a bit. I really really like that post of DDLs. I saw Thunals vote and it surprised me, so i went out of order to look it up. I've seen her weave defensive posts, but I don't recall anything this blatant as what she's saying about Lime, when she's bad. Did she defend you or so directly in Lasso? I think of her as more subtle?

Spoiler: show

So I would either resolve the other wagon, or go with one of Wisdom or Dunya because if Wisdom IS bad, I think Dunya could be, too. That's "now", this minute. I still have 3 pages to go. Also Dunya was potentially down as Limes partner in DDls post. Sh there are two, to me, valid worlds where she could be bad (I feel like Abigail, with all this talk of 'world views' lol).

The person i find towniest right now is Thunal. Her worldview keeps evolving and moving, and somewhat choppily. She'd be smoother if she was bad imo. She did a pretty hard volte face re Wisdom, which I don't see her doing if bad. But your insight here would be helpful to me re that.

This is where Dunya is discussing Wisdom with Thunal. If I ever get caught up, I want to read Dunya, Wisdom, Thunal, DDL. But that won't happen ha ha

Spoiler: show

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:08 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:54 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 5:38 pm
Syn wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 5:34 pm actually I do question thunal thinking falcon's post was outing. she's played like a hundred games and someone messing around on d1 when they're a lead wagon is almost never lolcatting/giving up
Actually, it usually has been in my experience. I just played a game where Lucchese self voted and gave up as mafia d1, and the game before that Pizza gave up and lolcatted after he was top wagon but it wasn’t set in stone and he flipped mafia.

I wasn’t sure Falcon was mafia and my thinking it was weird people didn’t think that post was outing was actually wondering if he was town and mafia had TMI so they didn’t treat it as outing. I thought it was a good guess Falcon was mafia and it upped his odds of being mafia quite a bit in my head, but it wasn’t a sure thing.
this seems overly wordy in a nervous way.
You're not wrong. I'm just town doing that. I dislike being pushed and having to defend myself as both alignments.

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:03 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 5:40 pm I’m a little bit sus of Wisdom’s response that town make those sort of posts all the time because at least on MU that’s not been my experience. @Wisdom could you please link a time you played where a town claimed mafia and gave up?
like, im sorry but again this feels a bit disgenuine too... you;'ve never seen a townie who was getting hammered be all salty and say "yep you got me?" and disappeared? could also be w/w distancing with this tbh, or giving wisdom an opportunity to pull receipts and not be sussed
You probably didn't read my later posts yet, but I just saw mafia give up the last two games I played. I even got vigged partly for not finding a "free" mafia that gave up the last game I played so my belief Falcon was mafia was probably an overcorrection to that. I have seen it from town in my life, but less often than from mafia.

And I think for now I'm trusting Thunal her and keeping my vote there.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:46 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:38 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:13 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:02 pm Did I really like, make a big case though?
You haven't really made a big anything, honestly. Not since you hogged the bathroom after Taco Tuesday this week
Exactly, so maybe S~V~S' reaction to my post is suspicious.
I think SVS made a typo-
S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:28 pmLC does not feel towny to me, but he also does not feel bad to me. That one post he made about figuring out how to use powers for town, that felt like old timey town LC. But then trying to blame his Roxy vote on me like a made a big case when i said one line, that struck me as a bit terrifying. so again I DUNNO.
I think she meant 'blame his Roxy vote on me like >I< made a big case'

^^^^^^ sorry fast typing, "a" should have been "I".

I hope you guys don't keep talking about me or I'll never get caught up.

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:38 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:13 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:02 pm Did I really like, make a big case though?
You haven't really made a big anything, honestly. Not since you hogged the bathroom after Taco Tuesday this week
Exactly, so maybe S~V~S' reaction to my post is suspicious.

I didn't say you made a big case, i said you (more than once) used my one line about asking about no posters being out of character for Rox to justify your vote. You acted like *I* had made a big case. It made me feel like i was being set up for some blame should Rox get yeeted. I don't necessarily still think that, but at the time it freaked me out, LC. It worried me. And "terru=ifying" was my word choice to express how it made me feel.

Also @Scotty re syn, just his general vibe, and I don't know that I see bad him making that vote he made D1. It drew attention, as did his convo with DDL. Syn can have a way of participating and being active without big moves, if that makes sense.

Although there was something on my mind, but I can't recall what it was, on Friday night.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:03 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:51 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 7:08 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 7:07 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 7:04 pm Oh I just realized Severance is a show.
also killed dumbledore
oops, SVS said no spoilers. Sorry SVS
At work, Spotify is blocked but for some weird reason YouTube isn't, so I listen to music on that. But it also has tons, like tons, of "SPOILER BREAKDOWN OF EPISODE X YOU'LL NEVER BELIEVE IT" videos. Ugh. So after actively avoiding all this all day, I had no choice but to watch it ASAP after checking to see who died. And thanks, but I already knew about
Spoiler: show
Dumbledore

then you'll love the fact that in Episode 2 of this season
Spoiler: show
lol it hasn't aired. But I did eat at an italian restaurant a couple months ago sitting next to John Tortutto (the guy that plays Irving)

It aired here? And SO JEALOUS!! A friend of mine is friends with his sister, Aida (she was in the Sopranos), and I've met her several times, but not him.

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 11:02 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:28 pmLC does not feel towny to me, but he also does not feel bad to me. That one post he made about figuring out how to use powers for town, that felt like old timey town LC. But then trying to blame his Roxy vote on me like a made a big case when i said one line, that struck me as a bit terrifying. so again I DUNNO.
S~V~S, this is insane, it's amped up, it's hyperbolically overwrought.

"Blame"???

Like, you said something that triggered some thought pathways that led to some conclusions, I was just referencing the genesis of my own thoughts on the subject, not dumping some imagined consequence at your feet. "Terrifying"? Really?

That's how it felt to me, "blame". It freaked me out a bit, hence "terrifying". Hyperbole language, perhaps, but it is how it made me feel.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:57 pm
S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:28 pm I took longer than I thought since kitty was so comfy, I hated to get him up.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 7:26 pm I agree with everything here, except I’m not so gung-ho about SVS. She’s a very light scumread, but it’s very light. Could use more thoughts, as it’s a bit blendy.
And wisdom is someone I haven’t made my mind up yet on. I probably have a bit of a lingering bias from D1 coloring my judgment
Im glad you said this. This is the longest I think you've ever went before you started coming for me, i was beginning to get worried about you.

OK, I have this habit of getting a fairly strong gut read, and generally I stick with it, even if sometimes people view that as a bad thing (Thunal said something before about me pushing something through). Sometimes that comes across as tunnelling. I'm wrong sometimes (sorry @Jackofhearts2005) but I reread today and I still think I'm right about Wisdom. [VOTE: Wisdom] aubergine

Other thoughts.

LPP; I see some suspish forming. The last game I played with them, they were super active, and they were participating, involved and impressively manipulative and played such a perfect ... baddie game. The person i see here is not that person, I don't see any person at all since they haven't posted, although it doesn't preclude TPP from being bad. But other than quiet, meh. They haven't posted even one time. That's a back burner.

People I feel as safe trusting as I would do in a Mafia game~

DDL, Syn, probs Dunya I think are town. I'd be surprised if not.

People I might put in that category, but will never fully "trust" ever again~

Thunal, Scotty , Roxy

Thunal has had a few moments of what felt like skillful web weaving that she does when bad so well, but nothing out of her town vibe. Scotty came in strong, was on some of the same pages as me, and didn't accuse me once, so like I said ^^ I was beginning to worry about him. Especially when he came in today and talked himself into and out of sussing Wisdom. But again, nothing town Scotty wouldn't do, and he eventually pointed a finger at me, which makes me feel better about him. Roxy; either I've gotten worse at reading her or she's gotten better at tricking me, or both. Her posts sound sincere.

Null (a big group i hope to see pared down by isoing)~

**Mainly a bit towny side of null~Daisy and Jack a tad towny. That's prolly my fault not theirs. I'm looking at things I sus rather than those that i don't.

**Null~ LPP, Jibay and Nook. Jibay is a nub, bantered some, no real content, LPP no content at all, Nook posted a few posts like "ha ha I'm playing mafia". Also Lime; he feels more towny than not to me, but in recent games i read him that way, and he was bad. I don't think my opinion of him has much value, tbh.

People i could vote for~

Wisdom, I already voted for them. Motobot, I didn't like his vote, he had zero to say about Rox before voting, he IS a young man, but not a kid and has played before. Not sure if I'm believing his "I'm afraid to say the wrong thing" defense.

and finally "I DUNNO" LC does not feel towny to me, but he also does not feel bad to me. That one post he made about figuring out how to use powers for town, that felt like old timey town LC. But then trying to blame his Roxy vote on me like a made a big case when i said one line, that struck me as a bit terrifying. so again I DUNNO.
I don't think I've ever seen such a deep dive on a player that hasn't posted before lol

I appreciate the hesitance on me and no pocket. Like a true women's pants.

Can you expand on why you're so confident on Syn being town?

Also, did I miss you talking about Lime Coke? He was the leading wagon (I think he still is?) and not a word about him here is

I did miss some of it, I think, I didn't see it till after I posted this, I reposted a post from DDL I think (for some reason i see his avi and think he's Jack, not sure why) about Line and Dunya potentially being teamed.

I did mention him, I said ^^ highlighted, and it's the Gods honest truth. My tell for him is pissiness, and if he's not pissy, I dunno. Like i siad, my opinion on him is worthless, and I'm not likely to vote for him on my own opinion, if I vote him AND he's not being pissy, I'm relying on other peoples cases/thoughts.

Hey guys, I had a super busy weekend, and kinda forgot about this.

I will start reading from my last post and answer @s when I come to them.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:57 pm
Now we know that falcon was town, so we dropped that last vote on him? I don't have time to look tonight, I'll have to do it tomorrow night maybe. Regardless, I think discussion there is warranted. I think discussion of Long Con is warranted as well.

All i can add to the Falcon vote order is Wisdom was first, I was second. Times are US East Coast time. I voted 6 AM. Wisdom pulled off at some point. Scotty voted Falcon a few hours later, about 9, but pulled off later.

Thunal voted right before 1 PM. DDL voted LC first, and right after voted Falcon 1:30. Jack was last to vote at 3:30.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:57 pm Ok, I have loads of work to do tonight, so in the interest of transparency and game solving, I'm just going to give you all my thoughts at EoD.

there was one vote on Long Con and I actively suspected him, despite feeling like I trusted the people on the falcon wagon more than others, just vibe wise. Then DDL said if I voted there, he would join me. I looked at the math and thought, that would tie up falcon and Long Con and the final decision would be made by a civ, even if it's an uninformed civ, I've prefer that to manipulated wagon. So I dropped a vote on Long Con, then DDL followed suit as he said he would. I think it was DDL anyway, I'll have to recheck that.

The question I have is who voted falcon after us? Because that vote put him back in the lead.

Regarding falcon's fake outting himself as a wolf. I don't know why he did that, but in the moment I had to decide what to do with that. I could jump over to falcon, under the assumption he is telling the truth. But I asked myself, if it is the truth, why would he do that? The only thing I could come up with is to help protect someone else, and the only other one at risk was Long Con, so I stayed. Either that or just sowing confusion, in which case it's better to ignore anyway. So again, staying where I was seemed the logical choice.

Now we know that falcon was town, so we dropped that last vote on him? I don't have time to look tonight, I'll have to do it tomorrow night maybe. Regardless, I think discussion there is warranted. I think discussion of Long Con is warranted as well.

What was that about dunya conspiring to kill falcon? Her vote was on Long Con with me. Not saying she is good, because I haven't formed an opinion and that's part of why I wavered about voting Long Con or falcon. I have no read there, and it's a little worrisome.

I'll try to go back and look at SVS's case on Wisdom. I don't understand it and I've not had any bad vibes from Wisdom either so far. It's weird she actively wants to avoid yeeting someone, but if she was wolf, why tell us that? Possible, but at the moment I'm not sure I see it. Same as my feelings on some of the weird stuff that DDL said that seemed preoccupied with the optics of where his vote was and when.

Though, if Long Con is town, it would be easy for DDL to have just sheeped me over to him from falcon and keep his hands clean, knowing that a town was likely to die either way. Something to consider I suppose.

Back to work I go.

Timing! I just read all of your posts and felt that your progression on your vote felt natural.

It's not a case per se, it's my gut; it's why I'm not getting as aggro as you know I can. It led from here:

Spoiler: show

And their reaction didn't feel genuine to me. A few people have said that's just how she plays, so I went BOTD, and Falcon was town. So imma stick to my gut for now.

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