The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:53 pm Hello. Can everyone take a step back and maybe take the rest of the evening (morning, afternoon, wheresoever you may be) off?

I understand the desire to discuss balance and mechanics and all of that, and I understand both the frustrations stemming from this as a long-time host and as a long-time player, but in the end this was a game on the Internet and nobody was maimed or made poorer because of it (unless you were caught playing Mafia at work and got fired, in which case, I'm sorry, good luck on the job hunt).

Relationships > Games on the Internet

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:52 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:42 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:34 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:29 pm Town plays 100% perfectly -> wolves control the yeet and have to look bad but it doesn’t matter because they can take themselves off the poll.

wrong

if town played perfectly u would have voted for wilgy or jpic instead of essentially no-voting on d3. town (and ultimately u) had control there

3 wolves were taken off the poll on d3 but also a whole bunch of town. the ability was public. town could have scumread the person responsible for taking people off the poll and thunderdoming a marked target. town could have voted jpic. town could have convinced epi and hkatt to vote jpic. epi and hkatt could have listened to the other townies

wolves did not mechanically control the yeet

What are you talking about? Wolves controlled the yeet entirely D3 because it was not mechanically possible for the town to vote all town players unless they correctly identified and all agreed on who that town was and even then, wolves could all vote each other and do whatever they want. There is zero way to mathematically ensure a wolf yeet on D3 even with perfect reads. You’ve proposed a way. I vote Wilgy. Okay. And then any wolf voting a townie Jpic and they still yeet a townie.

Wolves controlled the yeet but they would look bad if they did under certain scenarios =/= town controlling the yeet.

Town did scumread the wolf left on the poll but 2/3rds of us weren’t allowed to vote.

And the point about the gladiator wasn’t “wolves controlled D4’s yeet.”

The point is that the apparent balancing mechanic to allowing wolves to entirely control D3’s yeet is that they might end up looking bad, which I’m pointing out is entirely irrelevant since wolves can remove most of their team from the poll.

A wolf gladiator is unbalanced for other reasons but we’ve already gone over player expectations and how that fits into game balance.

Wolves controlling the yeet but looking scummy in the circumstance of town being right =/= wolves controlling the yeet full stop though, thats obvious

In a normal game a town can wagon a scum, and scum can cfd to save their wolf, looking scummy in the process

I dont see the difference

I acknowledge it was too hard and frustrating, i reject the notion that it was impossible or that towm had no chance

You not being allowed to vote for ur correct scumread on d4 does not make the game broken, since i ensured town was in control of the chop on d4 mathematically if u will. The triple neighborhood ability forced the user to target two town.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:34 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:29 pm Town plays 100% perfectly -> wolves control the yeet and have to look bad but it doesn’t matter because they can take themselves off the poll.

wrong

if town played perfectly u would have voted for wilgy or jpic instead of essentially no-voting on d3. town (and ultimately u) had control there

3 wolves were taken off the poll on d3 but also a whole bunch of town. the ability was public. town could have scumread the person responsible for taking people off the poll and thunderdoming a marked target. town could have voted jpic. town could have convinced epi and hkatt to vote jpic. epi and hkatt could have listened to the other townies

wolves did not mechanically control the yeet

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:25 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:21 pm You keep bringing up mistakes the town made as a defense against criticism of the game’s balance.

you are arguing that the d3 chop was broken because even if town played perfectly they could have been robbed of it. thats what i understood

so i responded with "town didnt even play perfectly in the first place. but even if they did, a mafia would have looked scummy for the unexplained cfd"

am i missing something?

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:07 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:01 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:56 pm your criticism is not legit

wolves had no mechanical control over who gets chopped. town had.

town also had kill power

Your proposed plan only works if ALL players play along, even wolves.

I literally had no ability to effect the yeet as a townie for half the game.

That’s broken.

Town had to catch and all specifically agree on two wolves to yeet a wolf D3.

Town had to catch specifically JPIC and all agree on D4.

That’s broken.

I’m not upset I lost. I like being fooled. I have never once been mad at a wolf for tricking me. I probably have lost half of the town games I’ve played. Maybe more.

For you to dismiss criticism of this game by calling me a poor sport is bullshit and rude.

if wolves didnt play along with the most pro-town plan you could have chopped them

you had the ability to affect the chop on d3, on d4 u had ur voice

the town had no just agree to chop a wolf on d3

town didnt have to catch specifically jpic. it was 2 townies and 1 mafia deciding the chop. then jpic made it 50/50 between himself and a town. "Town had to catch specifically JPIC and all agree on D4. - this line makes no sense

i dont think the setup was broken

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:07 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:06 pm If I had voted Wilgy, nothing stops LC from voting JPIC and yeeting Tony.

Except Tony was a wolf right? Lol

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:06 pm If I had voted Wilgy, nothing stops LC from voting JPIC and yeeting Tony.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:56 pm your criticism is not legit

wolves had no mechanical control over who gets chopped. town had.

town also had kill power

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:00 pm I think subbing out because you don't like the setup on d3 or whatever is uh

Pretty crappy and should be actively discouraged

Ymmv

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:57 pm for day 3 - if everyone agreed on a name - lets say X to get chopped, everyone could have voted alphabetically for the person below their name except X. this guarantees X to get chopped because they can't self-vote or interfere in any way. it was way too annoying for town but technically the D3 chop was in town's control as long as they put a lot of effort to work as a team

the chop on D4 was also in town's hands. it was 2 towns and 1 mafia deciding the chop. town was in control and they mischopped

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:32 pm wolves didnt give you mana afaik

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:21 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:04 pm It’s not reasonable for a townie to expect that “things I can roleblock” includes a mafia ability to essentially burn a day phase.

i probably could have done a better job at communicating in the OP that the game has a ton of non-standard mechanics, but, i thought that the player who randed your role would target his scumreads every night. i wouldnt make a role that incentivizes its owner to holster it if they wanna play optimally

tutuu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:01 pm Here is how I think I could have done better in terms of balancing the game:


1) The reverse yeet (Democracy) artifact was probably too much. It should have costed 1 mana of every color. Or somehow altered to give town more accessibility to the chop. I intended it to be slightly to moderately annoying for town (fitting with the Oko planeswalker) but it ended up stronger than I expected. An idea that I just thought of, unfortunately too late, is to keep the reverse-chop mechanic, but simply give all players 2 or 3 votes (I believe that's doable with the poll). If it is doable with the poll then I think it would have been less oppressing for town and actually becoming fun for everyone, while (i think) still benefitting scum as intended. I think that I saw Jack mentioning this ITT as well when he saw it, i wish i had done that

-FWIW I wouldn't have allowed Mafia to use both the reverse yeet ability and the triple neighborhood ability on the same night. They never considered doing it so it wasn't brought up in wolf chat, but it was my bad on not pre-emptively writing on the "Carnarium" artifact that it can't be used in conjunction with the "Democracy" artifact. Sorry about that, that brought unnecessary confusion for potentially both alignments

2) Punish the fool probably should have costed X mana to use (so u can pay any amount u want), and for each mana paid, deal 3 damage. Instead of pay 3 to deal 12 like it was now. I think that maybe it was a tad too punishing for town to try to teamplay with their mana, but I also think that Town could have done a better job at least attempting to. Urist gave out his mana in an extremely good way on day 1, he targeted 3 town and it was the correct colors for all 3. Epi, Marmot and Guillotine tried to teamwork with their mana as well. Other than those names nobody sent out any mana (except 1 colorless from 112 to Urist but I think that was due to a request?). I think everyone else could have put a little bit more effort to work as a team with their mana

3) MacDougall's un-kicked ability probably should have been the same as Jack's (make him counter all non-damaging abilities instead of only those who target him). It made no difference in this game but he should have been able to, in theory, roleblock Long Con's reverse yeet abiliy and JPIC's gladiator-generator ability. As it is right now, he was too limited in what scum abilities he could block

4) 112's ability probably should have costed 1 less mana (5 colorless total instead of 6 colorless)

5) The Mana Leaf artifact tokens - I should have allowed them to generate colorless mana so that 112 and Made could have used them

6) This was suggeted by Mac and Urist in spec chat and I agree - I think that a lot of people have assumptions about how roles work (people who are able to prove their benign roles existing = town). I don't like these assumptions to be correct in my games, I don't abide by them, I like mechanical ambiguity unless I intend otherwise (like the masons). If a role can confirm their actions in some way then I'm going to try my hardest to make it seem alignment-ambiguous (for instance urist silencer being town, jpic gladiator mafia, enrique marker mafia), that's my policy and that's what I think is the most fun. BUT it is a fact that even tho on a metaphysical level, a person shouldn't assume anything, in practice, a lot of people assume what role is towny and what isn't based off of their past experience in games. It's a fact that I have to take into account. I think the solution is to simply warn people in my sign-up threads to please let go off assumptions and to not make parallels between my benign looking confirmable roles and the meta (as in most widely popular) host design way of implementing benign looking confirmable roles in other people's games. But actually that might reveal some kind of info that I don't want, so the cleanest solution would probably just me linking my past games and asking people to please check out the revealed roles at the end, and to approach mech solving my games with an open mind

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:05 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:23 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:55 pm If all the marks were fake then why would I bother using my gladiator ability? There is literally a card I win confirmed by the mods if the real mark is yeeted.

Makes no sense. Gladiator is basically a personal king me for those among us that are unyeetable. Marks be damned.

I can only use the gladiator role on the people I have marked.

The theory was that all of my marks are fake. If that was the case, why would I use my gladiator role for no reason and a higher chance of getting yeeted?

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:36 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:14 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:10 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:08 pm @Justplayingitcool your dome with urist brought it up. We were originally looking at Enrique/LC with the whole leaf thing. Then Tutuu pinged us with a link to the Thunderdome post so we shifted gears to trying to solve between the two of you.

Oh? your post implied to me that you were both discussing me and Urist before the dome happened

Not as the chops for the day. Both of you have been independently discussed but not as a pair to solve within.
Epi entered chat most suspicious of you and 112. I entered most suspicious of Urist/112
TSP talked about you early in chat as well.

We didn't really start talking about where we think the chop should be until LC/Enrique started their leaf thing. Now that there's a dome we've been focusing on solving the two of you

Ah, ok. I thought you meant me and Urist as the chops of the day. But if it was just an independent thing then that makes more sense.

Anyway, I'm going to lay everything I have done and reasons why

N1: I used my gladiator ability to charge myself so I can generate a duel token. That duel token can only be used on the people I mark and during the day. The token has to be submitted before the Mana deadline.
N2: I real marked Epi and fake marked Guillo. I real marked Epi because I had thought he was outed with the ted yeet, and he was saved by scum. I thought he had w/w equity with marmot. Obviously, that went down the pan with Marmot's flip and Epi heavily implying he was the mason partner. I didn't know who to fake mark because I didn't really see the point in it. I chose guillo because that's who came to mind as the lion pics were still kinda annoying me.

During D3, I changed my mind on how to use the fake marking and instead decide to fake mark a town because of Enrique's post below. I wanted to make it clear which one was the real/fake mark so more attention would go against the real one, and the fake one ignored. I would have fake marked Epi but whoops. I was deciding to fake mark between HK/Jack, and I decided to go with Jack because I think he's been a lot 'cleaner'. I still town read HK but he has done a few things that were minorly scummy, so I trusted him less than Jack.

Spoiler: show

Enrique wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:13 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:44 pm [VOTE: enrique] aubergine

I think JPIC and Wilgy might be as good a pool as we're gonna get (if Guill or Jack or whoever votes Mac).

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:46 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:03 pm @Epignosis has been permanently Marked! The mark is either real or fake. If the following conditions are all met:
-Epignosis gets chopped at any point during the game
-The mark is real (and not fake)
-The person who marked Epignosis is still alive
-The person who marked Epignosis has the opposite alignment of Epignosis

Then the person who marked Epignosis will receive the following reward during the night:



Elaborations:
-Fleeting means that it must be used immediately as soon as it is acquired. You can choose not to use it, but then it disappears

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@Guillotine has been permanently Marked! The mark is either real or fake. If the following conditions are all met:
-Guillotine gets chopped at any point during the game
-The mark is real (and not fake)
-The person who marked Guillotine is still alive
-The person who marked Guillotine has the opposite alignment of Guillotine

Then the person who marked Guillotine will receive the following reward during the night:



Elaborations:
-Fleeting means that it must be used immediately as soon as it is acquired. You can choose not to use it, but then it disappears

I think this was a town action to protect both Epi and Myself. A town action that would give the player vig shots if we died, I think this player townread us both and this action was a way to secure our survival, at least until mafia found out who this player is, or should we die, the player would vig shot suspects off our flips.

It gotta be because why mafia would spew Epignosis and myself town with this action? It clearly says right there that if the mark is real and the player who marked us is of our opposite alignment... never mind, OPPOSITE ALIGNMENT! God! I'm so dumb.



Ok so, it is a mafia action. So why mafia would spew us town just two get two vig shots?

What if one mark is fake and the other one is real? I know I'm town and I know wolves fear my PGO abilities and they need to get rid of me during the day? If Epignosis was not uncounterclaimed as Marmot's mason partner, I would believe that Epignosis is the mafia here then.

How?

Mafia decide to mark their teammate and me, they know they won't get a vig shot if Epignosis is chopped, so the plan is to spew him town with the mark and claiming he is the mason partner so he is actually not chopped!
Then mark me for real and get me mischopped, getting rid of the PGO and and getting a vig shot off of my death. Win-Win for mafia.

But Epignosis has not been COUNTERCLAIMED by anyone as mason, so epignosis is the other mason thus he is town too.

So why did mafia do it? they were counting on getting us mischopped eventually. They were planning to set us up so we'd get chopped ignoring our marks? How? They must be really confident about their abilities to get us chopped in spite of this curse placed upon us by them!!. Are wolves this arrogant? are wolves this stupid? If not. Then what's the deal? Is there more?

What if the action is from town but both marks are fake? Would this scare wolves off? Wolves need to reach parity and this action would not stop them. Nah.

What if the action is from town and he marked us both believing we were w/w? If this is the case, this townie needs one of us to flip to confirm their suspicion in the hopes of getting a vig shot (which in my case they never will). Further more, a curse is viewed as a scummy action if not claimed. If this action came from town and thought we were wolves, he didn't think it through because he spewed us town, we are not getting chopped, he is not getting answers and in their eyes, it would have helped wolves if we were mafia aligned. Would a townie be this stupid to use an action like this on us to get two vig shots? I don't think so!

I'm tinfoiling a lot here. What is the simplest explanation then? Who is most likely the marker? Town or Mafia?

---------------------

Two, I thought the silencing came with the curse but no, I was silenced separately. So I got marked and silenced. Assholes! I know you are doing your jobs but... you are assholes wolves. You precisely silence the guy who can't keep his mouth shut.

-----------------------

If you guys townread Macdougall I can place a vote on him that will count as three, but then he gotta place his vote on me to save me as well.

Oh never mind, I'm out of posts... the next vote will be 11th post and I get shot. So the only way I'd attempt to save Mac is if he is worth saving.
------------------------

The curse mark says that if I get chopped (yeeted) then whoever placed their mark on me will get a vig shot, so don't chop me but if you ever wolf read me, day vig me, don't give whoever is doing this a vig shot by chopping me, or night vig me.. but then you'll die too. Meh

This is post #10

This is a good post. I had a couple of ideas that don't match this completely but I like the open thought process.

Here's what I thought: if I was a town and I had the marking power, and in this exercise I'm assuming one of the marks is real and one of them is fake because they came together and each has a 50/50 chance, I would have real-marked whoever I thought was bad and fake-marked a lock townie / someone I trusted. The contrast should've been starker anyway so if this is how it worked then I think the marker failed at making clear which was which. I thought Epi looked pretty good yesterday because of the whole mana donation thing, but he almost died so a bunch of people clearly thought the opposite. About Guill I'm just gonna say.... like half the notes I've taken on this game are about him, and I haven't arrived at anything conclusive, but I think it's good? lol. He's not clearly enough on either side for this to work.

If the marker is bad then it's about the WIFOM. They would want to use the power, so they would real-mark someone they thought they could lynch (Epi looked kinda easy before the Marmot reveal). It's also coupled with the reverse-lynch though so they have greater lynch-manipulation than usual. The fake mark is harder. It could just be someone to take the fall when the other one flipped civ (I don't think the host mentioned if the mark is revealed as real or fake with the flip), or it could just be hiding a teammate in plain sight. There's no easy answer to what's going on if it's this option, but Guill looks fine, and I wouldn't yeet him just for this.

It could also be a coincidence, they could be from two different players, they could both be fake, both be real, etc. This is why I wasn't sure if it was even worth talking about, like, if we're not gonna lynch them then how much does it matter? Epi is essentially a confirmed civ and there isn't a case on Guill, so unless that changes we should just worry about the other thing.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:50 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:46 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:59 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:31 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:16 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:15 pm

you're reading for content but the context is also important to note.

what does this mean?

That of all the people you list Jack is most confident in Enrique?
Also, why isn't Urist in your POE of 6?

I get that. I was just saying that there should be one other town-read in there if he’d be comfortable giving one.

I don’t know. People don’t seem to be suspecting Urist when I ask for suspects. I thought someone implied there was a mechanical reason to view him as town.

I am just pooling together what seems to be the consensus opinion among the responses I’ve gotten. I haven’f actually read stuff.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:39 pm I think Urist/112 are tied together with the way Urist handled Bolas and the way he's town reading the slot even without being able to commit to a townread on 112 themselves. Yeah, I get not having read through all the posts yet, that's fair

If we yeet Urist, and he’s mafia, I get a vig shot. I am currently aiming it at 112 right now.

Get ready, folks

Spoiler: show

I've already put damage on 112, your shot may be better elsewhere

I'm open to letting the neighbourhood council lock my kill in if I get the vig

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:55 pm If all the marks were fake then why would I bother using my gladiator ability? There is literally a card I win confirmed by the mods if the real mark is yeeted.

Urist wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:53 am Like, you know that if TSP is mafia he can say literally anything right.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:21 am right, except that the marked people that day were sloonei and epi, and the added marks are now jack and you

So there was no way in hell Guillo/Epi were being chopped yesterday, yeah? Like I think we can all agree on that. So no way to earn vig shots for mafia in those two. They're never dying.
Having the marks today be you and jack again guarantees that at most they'll have you in contention for a mark chop. Worst case situation is the mark on you is real, you're town, and jpic is mafia and we lose.
Best case situation is the person we chop is mafia and the marker, yeah?

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:57 pm D3 112 basically town reads the bulk of the POE. Is 112 that bad/disconnected of a wolf to blatantly town read the POE?

Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:58 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:49 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:59 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:26 pm Has anyone claimed the Neighborhood Yeet ability? Was it TSP?

Would love an answer to this sooner rather than later btw @TonyStarkPrime @hollowkatt @Epignosis

I don't know what this means.

I suspect that the ability which created the special execution mechanic on d3 is the same one that created the special execution mechanic today. It doesn't make any sense for them to be two separate abilities (what would happen if they were both used at the same time?)
Also, dunya was given a ton of mana for n2 and I don't think anyone gave her mana for n3, so how would Tony execute this special ability unless it was initially triggered n2 and this is just an after-effect?
What I'm getting at is that TSP is probably mafia. And that, unfortunately, I'm probably wrong on hk and that he's likely town after all.

Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:51 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:47 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:59 pm

Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:26 pm Has anyone claimed the Neighborhood Yeet ability? Was it TSP?

Would love an answer to this sooner rather than later btw @TonyStarkPrime @hollowkatt @Epignosis

Hello. I have done it. I have also been silenced. The purpose of the neighborhood is as follows: this ability gains its power from the existence of the confirmed town epi. I will plan on sheeping whatever Epi decides (barring him making a stupid decision or disappearing). However, I only have 10 posts to use in the thread and I have to use posts to vote so HK and Epi speak for me today.

Would also love to know why you silenced me. smh. [VOTE: urist] aubergine that's not nice.

Because there's a beneficial side to my action and I knew you'd be the least affected since you'd most likely be able to speak through a neighborhood today.
Also because I couldn't silence Guillotine on consecutive nights.

Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:29 pm I silenced TSP. He can still make 10 posts today, not sure why he's not using them.
Did he claim to have created the special yeet mechanic today or not? If he didn't cause this mechanic, who did he neighborize last night?

Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:09 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:12 am

Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:10 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:46 am

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:43 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:42 pm Are 112 and JPIC consensus not-town-reads?

Myself and Mac view 112 as not mafia.
Mac is dead ofc so

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:32 pm In my time in post cap jail I observed HK essentially outing himself as mafia. I believe HK and 112 are teammates.

Oh right ok well maybe I'm wrong on 112. Would still prefer to axe the actively-scummy hk first.

Why do you scumread HK?

His reads show no progression and he continued to push the ted wagon for bad reasons after being shown that his stated reasons were invalid. He said he was going after ted due to a couple of d0 posts as well as the fact that ted was being defensive & deflective. I told him to look at ted's iso and point out where ted was being defensive. Hk's response was essentially "ok well he's not being defensive but he's still lock scum for the d0 stuff". This was on d2. Absolutely no progression on the read, and when ted flipped town hk's reads didn't change at all. Personally, when I find out that I was that wrong on someone, my reads are shaken at least a little.

He also keeps stating that my read on 112 is strange. I've repeatedly said that it's a weak town read due to a hunch I have on Esooa's meta. Hk is calling me scum because I don't have a read on 112. I'll ask you jpic, has 112 done anything especially alignment-indicative this game? I disagree that he hasn't been solvy... he hasn't posted a ton of questions, but he's been posting his reads and he tried to engage ted on d2 when he was pushing him (note: 112 wasn't here on d1 and d3 was a crapshoot). I don't think I've received a response from hk about what "not solvy" really means to him, but that's the only objection he has to 112's play. Considering this, it's very odd that hk's main complaint about me is that I'm defending 112 when hk's read of 112 is so weak and vague.

Those two reasons are the main reasons for why I suspect hk.

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:59 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:31 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:16 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:15 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:41 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:37 pm In a world where exactly one player in @Sloonei ’s poe is town, its Enrique.

I listed 6 players and we know there are only 4 mafia. So at least 2 of them should be town.

you're reading for content but the context is also important to note.

what does this mean?

That of all the people you list Jack is most confident in Enrique?
Also, why isn't Urist in your POE of 6?

I get that. I was just saying that there should be one other town-read in there if he’d be comfortable giving one.

I don’t know. People don’t seem to be suspecting Urist when I ask for suspects. I thought someone implied there was a mechanical reason to view him as town.

I am just pooling together what seems to be the consensus opinion among the responses I’ve gotten. I haven’f actually read stuff.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:39 pm I think Urist/112 are tied together with the way Urist handled Bolas and the way he's town reading the slot even without being able to commit to a townread on 112 themselves. Yeah, I get not having read through all the posts yet, that's fair

If we yeet Urist, and he’s mafia, I get a vig shot. I am currently aiming it at 112 right now.

Get ready, folks

Spoiler: show

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:59 am @hollowkatt @falcon45ca @Sloonei @Epignosis @Urist @Long Con @Jackofhearts2005 @Justplayingitcool @112 @Enrique @TonyStarkPrime

Justplayingitcool has challenged Urist to a duel!

The vote count is reset.

Justplayingitcool and Urist are the only people eligible to receive votes today. Other votes won't be counted. No Chop is not an option. Ties still controlled by Mafia.

(What this basically means is that Epignosis, hollowkatt and TonyStarkPrime need to decide who to chop between Justplayingitcool and Urist today)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Official VC 4.1:

Justplayingitcool - 0
Urist - 0

Not voting - 3 - Epignosis, hollowkatt, TonyStarkPrime

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Day ends 12 hours from this post

Urist wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:23 pm Why you'd fakeclaim that is ???????? but that's honestly what it looks like. A fakeclaim gone wrong.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:31 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:16 pm

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:15 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:41 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:37 pm In a world where exactly one player in @Sloonei ’s poe is town, its Enrique.

I listed 6 players and we know there are only 4 mafia. So at least 2 of them should be town.

you're reading for content but the context is also important to note.

what does this mean?

That of all the people you list Jack is most confident in Enrique?
Also, why isn't Urist in your POE of 6?

I get that. I was just saying that there should be one other town-read in there if he’d be comfortable giving one.

I don’t know. People don’t seem to be suspecting Urist when I ask for suspects. I thought someone implied there was a mechanical reason to view him as town.

I am just pooling together what seems to be the consensus opinion among the responses I’ve gotten. I haven’f actually read stuff.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:35 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:41 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:04 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 11:57 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:44 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:27 am

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:44 am

This is all WIFOM though.

Nobody is asking the important question of whether the wolves controlled last phase and from my perspective, yes, they did. We've had three mischops in a row and I'm still being suspected - that sounds pretty great for the wolves, I'm the designated misyeet for D4.

Don't be surprised when I flip town and our town core have led us to another mischop. Why is nobody suspecting the people who crossvoted with each other?

Because it’s such level one play to cross vote.

None of this feels townie. Like that’s your best lead? Cross voting?

And yet that’s likely what happened. If wolves cross vote then who cares who gets yeeted as long as it’s not one of them.

What if everybody gets at least one vote. Well there you go, another town yeet.

I ask you this: did wolves control the votes or not?

Likely based on what?

If everybody gets one vote, whoever placed the last vote is wolf claiming because that action allows wolves to yeet the player of their choice. What does that have to do with crossvoting?

Wolves controlled their own votes. Consensus two players to receive 0 votes were you and Wilgy, and that’s what we got. So no, wolves didn’t control the votes yesterday, just the yeet between you and Wilgy. They chose Wilgy.

Like we were in a world where the only way we ever yeet a wolf is if we correctly pick out two wolves on D3 after yeeting townies on D1 and D2 and where Dr Wilgy is town.

So basically, a world where a wolf yeet is just fucking impossible to begin with.

And his belief is that in this world where a wolf yeet is never going to happen, wolves cross vote and tie themselves together to avoid yeet at all costs.

Absolute nonsense.

[VOTE: Justplayingitcool] aubergine

...

How? If the wolves crossvote it's literally fucking impossible for us to have enough protection to ensure that a wolf is on the chopping board.

A wolf wasn’t on the chopping board anyway unless somebody decided to vote Wilgy.