The Syndicate

juliets wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:14 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:46 am It's possible Quin is town. His actions make more sense if he's town.

I just don't know HOW

I'm reading genuquin, and reality took a crap on my quindar

so speed, I am looking at this post and trying to reconcile it with your scum list. This post makes it sound like you are seeing Quin as civ but he's on your scum list - what am I missing?

Have you read day 4?

poutanko - I townread Pout, have since D1. Her cop claim initially got the same from me, especially since it was completely WRONG and also was a really risky move. But I don't know Pout. Maybe she could make risky moves. I can put on a tinfoil hat and see it.
ColinIsCool - Townread again from D1. Cared about the roof early on. Almost got lynched alongside LC. And then... Pout towncopped him, and I started ignoring him. My townread on him is less strong than everyone out of my POE, and if Pout is scum, he could be too. If she's town... what are the odds that she'd be wrong twice, right?
Jackofhearts2005 - Jack is someone I've struggled to read all game. Normally he's in the forefront of my mind, and that hasn't seemed to happen this game. He has had a decent tone throughout, but I don't recall anything that locks him as town for me.
MacDougall - For the most part I townread MacDougall. There's just a little lingering weirdness with the way the vig kills bother him. Hey, Mac, do they still bother you now that you know Mafia ALSO had vigs?
Quin - A liar barring some crazy unexplainable night actions. Why did he lie? Why didn't he back off in some way? No idea. Doesn't make sense.
sprityo - Egh. JJJ covered this.
Sloonei - I only townread Owner for being saved by LC. That's gone now. Owner had some really fake-sounding reads on D1. Sloonei has been fine, but hasn't really wowed me or broke the mold and done something I wouldn't expect from anyone in the thread.

Yes, like half of these are townreads. Your fault for giving me a POE of 7.

speed 2.0
juliets 2.0
JaggedJimmyJay
DharmaHelper
Lunalee
karavalenge
timmer
nutella

poutanko
Jackofhearts2005
MacDougall
ColinIsCool
Quin
sprityo
Sloonei

Here's your POE of 7. I am about 95% certain of it. I can still tinfoil JJJ or mayyyyybe Luna, but I strongly townread both of them. Detailed reads on the seven scummy sins here in a minute.

It's possible Quin is town. His actions make more sense if he's town.

I just don't know HOW

I'm reading genuquin, and reality took a crap on my quindar

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:22 pm And here I was presuming speedchuck would be the one to immediately address my beautiful analysis with such asinine response. That it was in fact you Quin, makes me feel like I should swap your positions.

I was aiming for LC to get townfirms, after all. Whether Quin is lying or not, HE sure isn't the vig. I got what I was looking for.

Either crazy behind-the-scenes stuff happened, or Quin outted himself with a lie for no reason at all. I don't know which one is more likely because [secrets]. Can't imagine why anyone would redirect Quin to LC anyway, though. Seems like a waste of a mafia ability.

If Quin was protecting LC...

You guys have all the info I've been given except for the person who prolly killed LC. Maybe, once I die, you can read Quin with reads or other abilities to narrow it down.

Still would give me a townfirm on the other dude, though. And possibly confirm him to have the elder wand or some other piercing kill.

Dark Arts screwery is always an option. We're in a role-madness game. Mafia have GOT to have a ton of firepower in their secrets.

If that's the case, then I don't have anything on Quin necessarily.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:02 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:58 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:53 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:51 pm Unless you're referring to other mafia not having these abilities, which... Might be a good point? But I'm not sure where to go with it.

Do you think it's probable that two mafia members can summon a patronus?

Do you think Quin did summon a patronus if he's lying scum?

(To answer your question, I have no idea. There are 14 regular abilities in the game, and each person has two. If DDL randomly assigned the mafia stuff, I'd say yes, it's very possible two would have patronus. But if he distributed abilities evenly, INH would have the only one)

I dunno. If he didn't summon a patronus though, that means he targeted Long Con with something else. That would seem to be an important detail, yeah? What does a mafia Quin do to a mafia Long Con if not that?

*ventures off to page 1*

That is a good point. Could be a secret dark arts ability, could be another patronus but it is not likely to be I suppose.

[mention]Dragon D. Luffy[/mention] Were mafia roles assigned randomly as well as Hogwarts abilities, or did you have a hand in manually balancing it?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:53 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:51 pm Unless you're referring to other mafia not having these abilities, which... Might be a good point? But I'm not sure where to go with it.

Do you think it's probable that two mafia members can summon a patronus?

Do you think Quin did summon a patronus if he's lying scum?

(To answer your question, I have no idea. There are 14 regular abilities in the game, and each person has two. If DDL randomly assigned the mafia stuff, I'd say yes, it's very possible two would have patronus. But if he distributed abilities evenly, INH would have the only one)

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:45 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:43 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:33 pm speedchuck, how do you feel INH's flip reflects on Quin?

You are joking, right?

No. I'm referring to INH's role abilities, not his alignment.

Okay no I've looked over it and I'm not sure what you're getting at.

It doesn't mean anything regarding Night 3 actions because INH was dead.

Unless you're referring to other mafia not having these abilities, which... Might be a good point? But I'm not sure where to go with it.

Wait no you're not.

It's a skrewt.

Hmm.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:33 pm @speedchuck, how do you feel INH's flip reflects on Quin?

You are joking, right?

Cool, that accounts for vigs/balance stuff

I forgot to vote INH for the DH but since he was a rez I don't think he had a hallow

Sorry about the lack of house points.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:37 pm ah no jeez

Love the new avatar, dude

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:03 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:00 pm did bullzeye do anything that you know of?

He watched JJJ N1. LC visited JJJ. That's all.

And this information doesn't make Jay suspicious how?

You tell me. Mafia has reasons to target one another, AND reasons to target town. They can use a hogwarts ability and a dark arts ability in the same night. Lots of visits going on. But if you have an idea, tell us.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:59 pm Another wacky theory for you. If LC was an obvious big target. And he was. Why did Timmer choose not to shoot at him? Timmer only gets a vig every second night. He's never gonna get a better chance to hit scum with it. But instead he uses a different night action? Explain that.

Timmer said it was because the mafia knew who he was, and they had a redirect. So he did something else instead of giving the mafia an extra kill.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:00 pm did bullzeye do anything that you know of?

He watched JJJ N1. LC visited JJJ. That's all.

Oh hey day ended. If I die, look back at my stuff. Win it for me. Pls.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:50 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:46 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:15 pm I didn't do anything night 2.

@Quin Did you visit Long Con night 2?

I also didn't do anything night 2.

Ya’ll lazy n shit.

I was... kinda dead night 2.

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:46 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:15 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:09 pm In double checking the actual name of the ID ability just now, I realized there’s a possible explanation to all this night actuon discrepency that hasn’t been brought up yet, or at least hasn’t been a part of the main conversation: Arresto Momentum.

This spell delays another student’s movement. This will make whatever abilities they use have their effect delayed to the following night.

Is it possible that either one of Quin or speedchuck simply had their night actions pushed back a night, so that what they thought they had done on Night 2 actually came into effect on Night 3?

I didn't do anything night 2.

@Quin Did you visit Long Con night 2?

I also didn't do anything night 2.

See? Look at this crap! Here's an easy out, and he doesn't take it! Ugh.
I'd be a lot more comfortable with calling quin a liar and lynching him if his lie made sense and if he was trying to weasel out of it.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:37 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:32 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:27 pm The town agenda is equally obvious. Add a fifteenth strike to Speedy.

*snrk*

I have stopped caring completely.

It’s pronounced *snikt*

I have a slight cold, thank you very much.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:27 pm The town agenda is equally obvious. Add a fifteenth strike to Speedy.

*snrk*

I have stopped caring completely.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:28 pm 3 dead mafia all via nk. A failed Mafia lynch. A mafia rezz. You're all unperturbed?

I'm happy yeah.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:27 pm Just about anything can be assigned a mafia motive

Anything can be assigned a TOWN motive.

"No, I sincerely believed that!"
"I was trying to act scummy to see who the opportunistic scummers were. It was IRONIC scumminess!"
"I'm trying to stay alive because I know I'm town."
"I lied because I wanted to mislead MAFIA, duh"

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:27 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:22 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:21 pm

timmer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:38 pm Hi, guys. I'm lost. I know inh is bad. And I am feeling pretty good about sloonei being bad. Beyond that... iunno at this point.

So this is just to tell you that I'm going to work now and hopefully things will make more sense for me later. I'm sorry I'm not any help.

You arw even more lost than you think, unfortunately. I say this not to be snarky or defensive, but just in a sincere attempt to let you know.

Because I’d tell the truth if I was scum.

wut

Tell the truth about what?

My alignment. I would telk you all if I was bad. That’s what I’d do, so you can take me at my word when I say otherwise.

Ah, okay. That's what it sounded like.



What?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:21 pm

timmer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:38 pm Hi, guys. I'm lost. I know inh is bad. And I am feeling pretty good about sloonei being bad. Beyond that... iunno at this point.

So this is just to tell you that I'm going to work now and hopefully things will make more sense for me later. I'm sorry I'm not any help.

You arw even more lost than you think, unfortunately. I say this not to be snarky or defensive, but just in a sincere attempt to let you know.

Because I’d tell the truth if I was scum.

wut

Tell the truth about what?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:04 pm Oh I know that not every query reflects suspicion. The highlighted portion there is what is of interest to me. I think the answer to that question is quite obvious, to such a degree that I am surprised to see such uncertainty and whatever might Jay and/or Mac have been doing?

Phishing?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:31 pm I have no idea what you're trying to tell me.

Anyway. You express uncertainty about Mac and I going after DH, and then my removing myself from that dialogue.

What do you suspect is the mafia agenda which may exist underneath that behavior on the part of any of the three? If you don't mean to suggest a mafia agenda, what is the source of your uncertainty?

speedchuck, you too.

I'd have to reread it to be sure, but... DH hasn't undergone a whole lot of scrutiny, since the LC lynch. Perhaps this was an effort, either on Mac's part or on you egging him on to do it, to lay out a case against DH's Long Con cred and see if anyone else bites at it. Perhaps not to get him lynched today, but to get that seed of doubt in there and remove the townlock status that DH has in the general estimation of the thread?

What would the town agenda be in that weirdness? I have no idea.

BTW me saying I don't understand it is an opportunity for involved parties to clarify, not for you to treat it as a suspicion. Not every question needs to be answered with "do you think I'm scum?" Sometimes I just wanna know the dang answer, and then make conclusions from there.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:36 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:30 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:26 pm If what I did with DH wasn’t as obvious as I thought it was, then maybe it’s a strategy I’ll adopt more often.

It’s a bit of a relic from 2012 era me.

Is it the thing like when your friend says "Let's roll this giant round bale of hay down the hill into this fire because it's molded and needs to burn" and you go "Yeah, sure buddy, got your back" and then you watch this whole thing go just to get a better idea of your friend's IQ and the laws of physics but then the burning hay bale starts rolling towards a barn and you have to stop it somehow?

See if you can work an airplane into this simile and try again.

That didn't happen to me in 2012 though. The hay thing did.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:26 pm If what I did with DH wasn’t as obvious as I thought it was, then maybe it’s a strategy I’ll adopt more often.

It’s a bit of a relic from 2012 era me.

Is it the thing like when your friend says "Let's roll this giant round bale of hay down the hill into this fire because it's molded and needs to burn" and you go "Yeah, sure buddy, got your back" and then you watch this whole thing go just to get a better idea of your friend's IQ and the laws of physics but then the burning hay bale starts rolling towards a barn and you have to stop it somehow?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:18 pm Avoidance of protections.

Though yeah this is a good reason regarding the Epi kill.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:15 pm (This all kinda ignores Jay and Mac going after DH and then Jay being like "meh nm.")

I'd love to hear more about this. I was gone at the time and I'm still not sure how to feel about it.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:50 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:25 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:14 pm I think you're all thinking way too hard about the whole Speedchuck/Quin fiasco. There's some overwhelming evidence that nobody is even considering.

Spoiler: show

Speedchuck is always mafia

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME I WAS MAFIA YOU MOUTH BREATHER

WHEN

I'LL KILL THE LOT OF YOU

I actually read this post with the Conductor's voice.

That's awesome.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:36 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:25 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:14 pm I think you're all thinking way too hard about the whole Speedchuck/Quin fiasco. There's some overwhelming evidence that nobody is even considering.

Spoiler: show

Speedchuck is always mafia

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME I WAS MAFIA YOU MOUTH BREATHER

WHEN

I'LL KILL THE LOT OF YOU

Megaman.

I WAS A PRO TOWN ROLE

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:14 pm I think you're all thinking way too hard about the whole Speedchuck/Quin fiasco. There's some overwhelming evidence that nobody is even considering.

Spoiler: show

Speedchuck is always mafia

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME I WAS MAFIA YOU MOUTH BREATHER

WHEN

I'LL KILL THE LOT OF YOU

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:09 pm In double checking the actual name of the ID ability just now, I realized there’s a possible explanation to all this night actuon discrepency that hasn’t been brought up yet, or at least hasn’t been a part of the main conversation: Arresto Momentum.

This spell delays another student’s movement. This will make whatever abilities they use have their effect delayed to the following night.

Is it possible that either one of Quin or speedchuck simply had their night actions pushed back a night, so that what they thought they had done on Night 2 actually came into effect on Night 3?

I didn't do anything night 2.

[mention]Quin[/mention] Did you visit Long Con night 2?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:59 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:18 pm Here are the only ways Speed and Quin are both being truthful. Don't look unless you like mechanics talk, which I love dearly.

Spoiler: show

1. Mafia tried to redirect Kara to Sloonei or to Timmer. That redirect hit me instead. (This, of course, depends on whether Imperio has priority over Diricawl or not. Could be that Kara was made to target Sloonei or Timmer with a Diricawl, and the Imperius would have to hit me directly. This is probably not worth asking about, as I consider it unlikely, but go for it if you want to.)
Also Imperio MIGHT have been used to redirect Juliet's Rez, therefore not being able to hit me. (But can you redirect to dead players?)

2. Quin used a patronus on Timmer/Sloonei AND visited Long Con as well. This would require Quin to have a dark arts ability to use on the side. Go figure why he would do all that. Scum anyway, in that case.

3. Mafia has some kind of "piercing redirect" secret. They redirected Quin to Long Con because IDK why.

4. Mafia has some kind of "Passive redirect" secret. They redirected all Timmer's visitors to Long Con because IDK why.

5. More dark arts secret randomness I guess.

TL;DR Quin is either still bad or the mafia is playing nonsensically with secret abilities.

I don’t understand my involvement in #3. Is that a typo, or do you mean to suggest that I targeted Long Con?

Typo. Fixed.

Here are the only ways Speed and Quin are both being truthful. Don't look unless you like mechanics talk, which I love dearly.
TL;DR Quin is either still bad or the mafia is playing nonsensically with secret abilities.

That's as simple as I could make it. Charts wouldn't help. I tried to make one yesterday.

poutanko wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:03 am Also, Speed - Quin my brain can't catch up. If anyone can make a graph that explain it easier that would be helpful

Speed ---Watched---> Long Con, saw Quin and ???
Quin ---Patronused---> Himself, Timmer, Sloonei

Patronus means Quin could not be redirected. Any other options regarding speed getting redirected are nigh impossible.

THEREFORE: Speed saw Quin somewhere. Quin said he was not there.

One of these claims is a lie. (It's Quin's)

All of the other discussion has been "Why would Quin lie?" and "Are there any other possibilities?"
Possibilities have been mostly debunked. The "Why" is still unanswered.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:08 am

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:26 pm

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:25 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:21 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:19 pm Why do you think he didn't?

Night actions. Timmer didn't visit Long Con last night.

This is correct. I assumed that any attempt at using my vig would be tampered with, so I used a different item to avoid having an obvious killshot redirected.

god damn it timmer you wasted my patronus

And then along comes Quin's patronus claim. Looking at it in sequence, this claim seems to have the least going for it, but it also seems like the least sensible lie in the bunch. If Quin is scum and lying here, I see no advantage gained here. Sure he can sow confusion, but in doing so he paints a giant target on his back. The urgency of his questions leading up to this also seem to suggest that he was sitting on some sort of information himself.

There lies the problem.

WHY would Quin claim this at all? Town, scum, doesn't matter. What even is this?

And it's in a precarious situation. Quin may have assumed I had a tracker and not a watcher, but... in this setup, I don't know why he'd do that. It was a risky claim that accomplished nothing.

I would believe it if it made any sense at all, if it was even possible for it to make sense with what I know. But it doesn't.

karavalenge wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:18 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:16 am The two somewhat answerable questions I have coming out of my look at the claims are: 1) What does scum Quin gain by lying about using a patronus on me and timmer?
2) Is there any possible scenario where both speedchuck and Quin are telling the truth?

The unanswerable question is whether or not scum knew INH was coming back.

2:
Scenario where literally everyone has Diricawls because DDL wants us to suffer

Actually if LC used a diricawl on Timmer then I would have ended up at Timmer and Quin would have ended up at LC.

So that one is impossible too.

If I'm right and Quin is bad, that means the other visitor was prolly a town vig with the elder wand.

Who thinks it's a good idea for me to share that info publicly? Answer me, you who have been pooh-poohing my ??? person.

I'm going to bed.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:27 pm I've decided I straight up don't believe speedchuck watched Long Con last night. No convoluted bullshit with multiple diricrawls and redirections.

He lied about his night action. That's it.

There we go. We can drop the maybes and get right to the heart of the matter. I say you lied. You say I lied. That's what it boils down to.

But when I flip town, it's gonna poop right in your bed. To replace what you cleaned up. So you'd better get some corn flakes to go with it.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:12 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:11 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:09 pm I don't see anything in kara's posts that would suggest he suspected speedchuck and be motivated to use a diricrawl on him. Surely he'd have used it on Owner or Glorfiets who he suspected in his ISO.

What's the motivation to use a Diricawl on scum?

(Not arguing, Kara can explain their own motives. Just curious)

Redirecting night kills off of yourself onto someone you suspect.

I wouldn't do it.

Not with the vig kills that have been on point this game.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:11 pm Go on, reveal that you have a town read on DH. Make all the fun even more fun.

Who are you talking to?

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:09 pm I don't see anything in kara's posts that would suggest he suspected speedchuck and be motivated to use a diricrawl on him. Surely he'd have used it on Owner or Glorfiets who he suspected in his ISO.

What's the motivation to use a Diricawl on scum?

(Not arguing, Kara can explain their own motives. Just curious)

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:09 pm Also entirely plausible that speedchuck and kara are both full of poop and there is no ??? -- this is all made up CARP

I could reveal who it is.

Is that an EGS reference?