The Syndicate

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:21 am Doc Wilgy seemed to be soft claiming M Bison, saying he wanted townie Speedchuck dead, even after he flipped. Eloh was also obvious town. My death hurt her the most. It also hurt Mal, who I would have defended for another day (see my reactions to Fred early in Phenon) but I would have turned on him sooner than later.

Mal and Sloonei both should have been lynched awhile ago. Everybody was suspicious of Mall all game. Sloonei was clearly coasting.

Everyone is always suspicious of me!

You think I could come to another site, but nooooo I'm always mafia here too. But yeah, I knew I might get some heat for your death, but I also knew you would pick up on my scummy nature way too fast.

Serge wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:07 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:05 am
Serge wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:03 am
Also is Elohcin and Simon really related?

Elohcin and I did something a long time ago that resulted in the existence of Simon.
Is this the birds and the bees I keep hearing about?

Thanks for the game by the way, I actually forgot Sloonei was scum and I was surprised when I read his flip. Also when I caught up I didn't realize Simon was a teammate haha.

Did you realize I was a teammate?

Yeah, I kept pressure on Simon a lot since a lot of folks had me as "leans Mafia" and I figured if I did get lynched that would give him cover. I honestly figured I was gonna get lynched but there always seemed to be a more interesting target for the town.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:10 am A number of civilians neglected to vote or use their Night actions. Just pointing that out.

I wasn't sure on the night actions, but you gotta get voting in as a pattern. Of course, I think the timing of this was bad for a lot of people. I wasn't being sneaky-lying or anything when I was missing a lot of time, I genuinely AM moving IRL. But yeah, the lack of activity really hurt in this one.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:37 pm
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:30 pm I gotta say, being mafia in this game was a bit like outrunning a bear.

I don't have to be fast, I just have to be faster than the other person I'm with.
You're a skeleton, like me. That comes in handy sometimes.

I COULDA BEEN A CONTENDAH!

But, since this is a win for me, I'll update the avatar. Hehehe.

I gotta say, being mafia in this game was a bit like outrunning a bear.

I don't have to be fast, I just have to be faster than the other person I'm with.

Very interesting game, and JoH, I totally killed you N1 because you know me way too well. Though of COURSE I'm mafia... it's a running gag at HCRealms that I'm always mafia, and breaking down the numbers... I'm like, two standard deviations MORE likely to be mafia than anyone else. We broke down the stats and everything.

I will say that you guys did force me to up my game, especially MP in that N1 where he put the pressure on me early to provide real stuff. Which just had me "think like a townie" during the day phases. Honestly, I'm really amazed I didn't get serious lynch pressure at least one day phase.

So does your modem twitching out. ARG!

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:48 pm I can get behind an Eloh lynching, but I always feel that she's bad the moment she points out one of her kids being good...

LC, if Simon and I were already dead who would you vote?

ALSO... in the post quoted above, do you think the game will go on after Simon and I are lynched? Why or why not?

[mention]malakim2099[/mention] I have never played with you before have I? do you think I'm sexy?

Oh behave.

Anyway, I think the cable internet port is actually physically damaged or something, it keeps dropping me even with modem changes intermittently. Very weird. Gonna do a bit more packing and maybe some Destiny's Child... er, Destiny 2. Will keep an eye on the thread.

Serge wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:57 pm Scum
malakim - I'm confused. You're supposedly here with JackOfHearts but you don't know WIFOM and someone had to tell you there are more scum than townies?

Gonna address this because um, yeah, WIFOM is not common parlance over at the Realms dude. You don't believe me? Go surf it.

As far as "someone had to tell you there are more scum than townies" is concerned? Um, would you kindly explain what part of your body you pulled THAT out of, because that's a new one on me. I'm pretty sure I can do math, and I never asked ratio of scum to town since it's pretty freaking obvious (and pretty freaking bad at this point). So if you'd be so kind to quote where you pulled THAT from, I'd really appreciate it.

Well, I'm inclined to think Elo is town now, if only because I can't believe she wouldn't just vote out blooper if she were scum. Unless she wants us to think that...

Man, I'm paranoid. Or is it more realistic at this point?

For the record, I only played an hour of D2 last night because well, I'm an adult and had to work today. But it was pretty fun to get through the intro. Basically made it to the "Farm" (which seems to be the main staging area for the players to go out and run missions) and it was pretty nifty. Never played the first one but I knew enough people getting this one that I thought I'd jump in.

Wow, I stayed up way too late last night playing Destiny 2...

*eyes thread*

And so did everyone else, apparently.

Though, I actually feel slightly better about DrWilgy for playing a vote on DFaraday. Though that could always be DrWilgy's intention by putting a vote there.

Also, gonna play some Destiny 2 now. Well, in 4 minutes.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:42 pm I don't think so, Wilgy just likes to be somebody.

And I thought you were referring to a relative of Chun Li.

House Harkonnen is most displeased!

But then they are ALWAYS displeased.

Kan-Li - Vendetta. I adore Dune, just so you know.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:36 pm You guys want to lynch Wilgy or Simon first?

Honestly, I'd be inclined to go for either... I really don't like Wilgy just gunning for speedchuck immediately yesterday, is there some sort of meta/Kan-Li thing there that I don't know about?

Haven't been a fan of Simon all game, though. Arg. I just feel that this is a case where we lynch bad and we lose.

Serge wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:30 pm Forgive me for asking, but what's the difference between mylo and lylo again? Is mylo just a penultimate thing? So what happens if we don't mislynch? Or lynch anyone?

And a Kylo is this:

Okay, I have to admit, I feel really horrible about missing this much time. But, I think I'm still ahead of quite a few people as it is... for a Labor Day Weekend, I had a lot of labor going on. On the bright side, RL is straightened out so I should be good.

Mafia killing blooper?!? That just seems so weird since she was likely on the chopping block today. Still not sure WHY they would do that.

At this point, I'm thinking Speed and Diiny are in the clear. Regarding voting today goes... I'm leaning heavily towards Wilgy for reasons speedchuck outlined.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:28 pm Sppedchuck, I agree that it got very quiet once sloon died. Serge is my top suspect. No kill, replacement right before night ends, and a niju kill makes me think serge replaced baddie sprit and made a quick decision on who to kill. What do you think ofbthis theory?

This is an interesting idea. I kinda like it, but I'm not entirely sure though. It almost feels like the mafia is trying to WIFOM...

Gotta admit, I love the neat abbreviations.

I think Elohcin is downgraded on her threat level to me... I'm pretty sure she's town. Just playing town in a way I'm not really used to seeing. Of course, this entire game is pretty nuts to me. In a good way, save for the lack of activity that is.

[rant]So yeah, as it turns out, my friend that was going to help me move is sick, and the other friend (whose truck and trailer I was going to use)
is out of town. Now, she loaned me the keys, but this is a 90 mile drive and it would be by myself. So I'm just postponing the move to next weekend.
Arg. I mean, I have the window to do this since I'm doubled up on the old lease and new lease, but it's still annoying to put it off.[/rant]

On the bright side, signed the lease today, got my new state registration (MN, yeah!) and even got the customized license plate I wanted. (OWLBEAR!)

And thanks to my diet I've been on the past 5 months, I have lost 6 inches off the waistline in addition to 66 pounds. Whee!

tl;dr? I'm very much scatterbrained right now and visiting family for the weekend instead of worrying about moving anything. Will try to be active for this day phase but I honestly don't know how responsive I'll be.

Diiny wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:44 am
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:53 pm
Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:27 pm I already stated that I believe at least one pwrson from the other site (new-to-the syndicate) is probably mafia. Seeing as a new-to-us member has now been killed so early, it only reinforces this theory. Syndicaters havw nwvee been very comfortable with killing of new people this quickly.

I know diiny is new. Is malak also from the other mafia site and playing here for the first time?
Um, if you had been reading my posts, I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it repeatedly. Seriously?

Diiny wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:32 am this theory strikes me as ridiculous.

"the most unanimously town-read player gets nightkilled by the mafia and flips town, and she had clear reads against some people that can lead to wifomy goodness on the event of her death and town reveal. There's no WAY mafia would kill her!"

I don't see a townie bothering to make a post this baseless. this is faux-scumhunting, and it's an attempt to throw shade at people for nothing.

btw I've never played with dunya either lol.
See, if you want to get meta on me and go read a bunch of games on the other side that I've played in? I'd buy that meta. But just saying, "well, player X is probably mafia because RNGesus is gonna make sure one person from that other site is mafia" is lazy thinking to me.
I still don't understand what you're saying here on the bottom segment. Are you agreeing with my analysis of elo's point?

Yes, I agree that relying on RNG on that is just invalid/lazy thinking, to me. I think that's what you're saying? Because that's what it sounds like to me?

I have been adulting all day when this was allegedly a day off. I'm very tired.

I wish I could say I missed the excitement, but I narrowly avoided hitting a deer in the road tonight and thus having a microwave try to decapitate me. Ouch.

Still, great job by Honda. I owe you a bottle of sake. The good stuff.

JJJ and Wilgy are "No Idea" on my list because JJJ is absent and looking to be replaced, while Wilgy hasn't been on to post anything until today. If I'm right about my other reads, I think one of those two might be the last scum. Anyway, off to do more packing and a lot of driving. Will try to be back before the phase ends, but no promises.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:05 am Can you make a strong (or just detailed) case on someone you suspect?
If Eloh is scum, who do you think is scum with her? Other than maybe Simon?
What class do you play in Pathfinder?

malakim

Moderate Townies:
Speed
Diiny

Slight Townies:
Long Con
Sloonei
nijuukyugou
MP

No idea:
JJJ*
Wilgy*

Moderate Mafia:
DF
Simon
Elohcin

Eloh is being way too defensive for my tastes. Reiterating my point, I know, but I don't like townies that are more concerned (to me) about staying alive than finding scum. Examples:

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:06 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:54 am
Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:48 am Frame job for sure.
Who framed you?
Someone who is reading enough of the thread to be able to know JoH thought I'm bad. But also someone who thought it was a possibility that other players would believe the frame job as true. Who could that be?

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:37 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:10 pm Night kill analysis is not my forte. I've been scum twice in like three years. But I am intrigued by your suggestion that you were framed, Eloh. Do you feel that you were definitely framed, or are you merely suggesting it as a possibility because somebody else brought it up?
Its what I immediately thought when reading the results last night. But I didn't say anything because I figured people would shoot down the idea and just claim I was bad.

But... then elo just said it? This really reads like the "No I'm not silly enough to nightkill JoH night 1 I was framed!" thing. And to this point no one had really accused her of anything from what I could see.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:44 pm Thats the shortest nap I've ever seen.

And then there's the Napping Blooper thing. (BlooperNapGate?) I understand people like to read the meta, but this is just a REALLY big stretch to me. I mean, what, Blooper is suspicious because... they couldn't really do more than a catnap for 15 minutes if that? It just seems like this is really reaching to me. I mean, other people are going about posting styles and the like... but the short nap is a clincher?

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:19 pm Go find her posts. Have you heard of anyone taking a nap, catching up on over 24 hours of mafia, and writing a post in about 40 minutes?

Don't like the fact that she said "go find the posts" and didn't quote them. It's not that hard to quote it to help your case.

In regards to DFaraday getting upgraded to moderate mafia on my list... I would be okay with them voting for Dom by mistake I think. But then they pretty much do the exact same thing to Blooper. Didn't quote those posts because they haven't posted that much just yet aside from "voting for this person."

Folks that want Blooper out? Please explain the logic behind it without citing naps. For now, voting Elohcin because I'm thinking she's the most logical target. To me anyway. I don't know if I'll be back with moving stuff and driving tonight before the day ends.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:27 pm I already stated that I believe at least one pwrson from the other site (new-to-the syndicate) is probably mafia. Seeing as a new-to-us member has now been killed so early, it only reinforces this theory. Syndicaters havw nwvee been very comfortable with killing of new people this quickly.

I know diiny is new. Is malak also from the other mafia site and playing here for the first time?

Um, if you had been reading my posts, I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it repeatedly. Seriously?

Diiny wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:32 am
Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:27 pm I already stated that I believe at least one pwrson from the other site (new-to-the syndicate) is probably mafia. Seeing as a new-to-us member has now been killed so early, it only reinforces this theory. Syndicaters havw nwvee been very comfortable with killing of new people this quickly.

I know diiny is new. Is malak also from the other mafia site and playing here for the first time?
this theory strikes me as ridiculous.

"the most unanimously town-read player gets nightkilled by the mafia and flips town, and she had clear reads against some people that can lead to wifomy goodness on the event of her death and town reveal. There's no WAY mafia would kill her!"

I don't see a townie bothering to make a post this baseless. this is faux-scumhunting, and it's an attempt to throw shade at people for nothing.

btw I've never played with dunya either lol.

See, if you want to get meta on me and go read a bunch of games on the other side that I've played in? I'd buy that meta. But just saying, "well, player X is probably mafia because RNGesus is gonna make sure one person from that other site is mafia" is lazy thinking to me.

Diiny wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:46 am
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:36 pm * Elohcin, I think, is my primary candidate for scumminess. I don't like her dedication to self-preservation. I mean, if I'm reading the rules correctly, specifically rule #4?
As much as I don't like elo atm (hopefully more on that soon) this doesn't make sense. And elo actually responded to this well iirc.

Malakim, townies *know* they're town. It's a 100% chance. They die, that's a townie out of the game and the mafia win condition lurches closer. Now, even if you *really think* the guy on an alternate wagon to yours, who'd survive if you don't vote for him, is town, that's still a less than 100% chance of keeping a townie in the game. It always makes sense to preserve yourself.

I'm worried that your shunning of self-preservationist tactics is a symptom of you being scum. You're not in a mindset of "i KNOW i'm town, in elo's situation I would save myself too."

Let me clarify this point. Yes, a townie knows their town and should keep themselves alive. However, it seems like Elo is ONLY doing this. They are playing far too defensively with "Oh this is a total frame job!" after N1, and just feels like they aren't seeking out scummers so much as trying to avoid getting lynched. And that really bothers me.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:26 am Im here. Someone catch me up.

Glad you're okay!

Lemme explain... wait, no, there is too much. Let me sum up. Actually, I'm sure someone else got to that by this point...

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:38 am Players Dunya suspected: LC, Blooper, and malakim
So if there's silencing motive in there, it's with these.

I really hate that I wasn't around for dayend yesterday. And that I didn't vote when I thought I did. Hrg. I currently want to place a lynch between Eloh or malakim, and to a lesser extent, MP and Blooper.

Why those four? Because we can lynch and get some freaking information. Dom and Bass weren't linked to anybody in any way. Their reads/actions were basically isolated. Our lynches have sucked this game. I'm going to do some ISO stuff today. Nothing big to put in thread, probably, unless I find a case to make. I just want some better reads.

Speedchuck gets it. I like that.

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] I am answering your request in a separate post because this is Wall of Text enough as it is.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:02 pm
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:00 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:51 pm EBWOP: Don't ISO MP
Work and moving makes for my brain being tapioca. Give me some time to catch up.

Also, Pathfinder I currently play a rogue.
Sounds fun. Using Path of War? Or just vanilla?

Vanilla. Actually, it's not the core Pathfinder setting but a different campaign world the GM has. Though right now my favorite RPG game would have to be a Force and Destiny FFG game where I play a Sith during the SWTOR timeframe. I do a LOT of RPGs.

Work will be over soon for the week. Then I shall do some packing and read the thread in more detail after some cat cuddlng. Right now everything is looking like Wingdings in this game to my stressed and lightly-baked-and-seasoned-with-herbs brain.

Or to quote Machine Man.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:51 pm EBWOP: Don't ISO MP

Work and moving makes for my brain being tapioca. Give me some time to catch up.

Also, Pathfinder I currently play a rogue.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:13 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:40 pm Also, malakim's misinterpretation of context, intentional baddie move or innocent Civ mistake?
Not certain.

Depends on how good malakim is at scumhunting. Or, moreso, how much he/she thinks like I do. I could see it either way.

Scum mindset is looking for mistakes. So any apparent mistake, like contradicting yourself, is a gold mine for suspicion. But some town people hunt like that as well.

Malakim is a he, just to clarify.

Admittedly when I first saw that post I just saw the initial 'clearing' part and didn't take the context into account.

Anyway, hope I'm doing this right here. First rainbow list!

malakim

Moderate Townies:
Speed
MP
LC

Slight Townies:
Dunya
Diiny
Sloonei

Slight Mafia:
JJJ*
Wilgy*
DF
nijuukyugou

Moderate Mafia:
Simon
Elohcin

Explanations!

* I like how Speed has been posting. He seems pretty consistent, theorizing (even if the theory is wrong, as I am not connected to Elohcin, but I can see how it looks that way) and providing insight.

* MovingPicture07 and Long Con I'm pretty solid on right now as well after re-reading that whole exchange they had. Definitely feels like townies chasing each other around D1 to me. Plus I'm pretty sure if MP was scum he'd take advantage of my laziness and run me up the flagpole.

* Sloonei has been putting pressure on me as the new guy, so I respect that.

* Dunya I'm still a bit peeved at the stealth vote after she decried stealth voting, but I think that was an honest mistake. Still, a bit weird to do that.

* Diiny I honestly haven't gotten a good feel for yet, so I just threw him in the leaning town for now.

* JJJ and Wilgy I'm throwing in slight mafia as they... just haven't said anything. I mean, JJJ did some posting D1 but then he said he needed to be replaced, so I'm just a little uncertain of that. I know Realms the mafia can submit actions for missing players, is that the case here?

* DF, you have a great avatar (go Bifur!) but it just bothers me that your first real move this game was tossing a vote onto Dom. Now, admittedly, Dom was acting really fishy going into D2, so it could be an innocent move... or it could be a mafia 'hey a townie is under pressure let's slip the iocaine powder in their drink' move too.

* Nin... er, njin... er, okay, I see why you say "Blooper" now. Anyway, I think she should be participating more, but the fact that Elohcin is the one bringing a lot of pressure onto her is giving me some pause. Putting her in the slightly fishy category.

* Simon, I'm still not a fan of. He hasn't been on that much, and I understand the RL considerations. Even so, it just strikes me that he could be coasting a little.

* Elohcin, I think, is my primary candidate for scumminess. I don't like her dedication to self-preservation. I mean, if I'm reading the rules correctly, specifically rule #4?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:18 pm 4) All players on the side of the winning faction will win.

I'm taking that to mean that the all the players of the winning faction, alive OR dead, will win. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that how it sounds to me. I mean, yes, it does suck that you aren't playing anymore, but when you say things like this:

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:28 pm Well...less thank 10 minutes left and I am ties with dom. Voting him. I'm not only trying to save myself but I think he may be bad.

(Emphasis mine.) Well, it just feels a bit odd to me, particularly when combined with her proactively saying that JoH was a frame job. It reminded me of a time when I had a vendetta against a player on HCRealms, and I was scum and he was town in that game. So I murdered him N1 and then protested loudly D2 that "OBVIOUSLY I wouldn't kill him N1 because then I'm the prime suspect! Geez, give me some credit!*"

Her self-preservation drive seems a bit too pronounced for a townie. Or maybe I'm just too much of a socialist. Anyway, that's where I stand right now. I'm sure that'll change.

* For the record, it worked.

Hey gang, back!

Sorry, between work and packing today and Pathfinder last night been VERY busy this night phase. TBH, if I knew how in depth you guys were I would probably have not signed up since my RL is crazy with the pending move. Not looking to be replaced yet though, I'm enjoying this a lot!

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:34 pm Also, just so you and malakim and everyone else knows, but dunya is female.

Sorry! I just defaulted since you can count the number of women players at HCR on one hand. Literally.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:38 pm Really sorry I missed the vote. I'm in three Mafia games right now, and I failed to schedule my vote correctly.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:01 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:58 pmI don't buy that MP totally thinks you're civ for a second.
Why not? I'm in the elite green of his list, and he's stated more than once that he doesn't think I'm bad, if I recall correctly.

malakim2099 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:56 pmThis is the post that caught my eye, really. Been thinking about this. I highlighted LC's response because I really don't like that defense of "well, I'm cleared by MP!" ...

[snip]

Long Con (the defense highlighted above, it just seems like "MP gave me a clean bill of health!" without really proving a defense)
Just want to say that your analysis is unwarranted. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but you have ignored the context and made up your own interpretation that doesn't accurately understand what happened.

You are reacting like I was defending myself by invoking MP's trust of me, when it was a response to Dom's suggestion that... that MP doesn't think I'm Civ, I think? (To be honest, I didn't quite get what Dom meant by it, maybe that MP and I are teammates?) Anyway, you see what I mean? I agree that it would not be a worthwhile or convincing defense for me to use, you are right about that. But I wasn't using it as a defense. I was offering evidence that MP does indeed think I'm Civ.

-snip-

LC, re-reading that, you are quite correct. That was my mistake, and I offer an apology.

I'm working on a rainbow chart to rate my feels of people right now. Will be a bit off and on the next phase, but if I don't post at all, silenced.

malakim2099 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:06 pm
Anyway, rethinking Elo's comments about the "frame job" and now I'm suddenly thinking she's a bit hinky again. It just seems like you're protesting too much/being defensive. I mean, I thought she was pretty helpful with explaining a few things about the local meta. However, there's also the "Boo mafia!" post right after the night ended, and the posting about how she was getting framed (which seems a bit defensive).

Really, if I were a scummer looking to do a framejob (puts on the evil hat for a second for that POV), I'd probably try to frame you MP by killing Dom. Or vice versa.

Elo, I feel that in an OT sense she's being very helpful and I think that's messing with my read of her. But now that MP posted the other observations, particularly her lack of reads... I'm inclined to Vote Elohcin as well. It feels like she's coasting a bit. Maybe I'm crazy.

And by 'you're protesting too much' I mean Elo's protesting too much.

Did I mention I had some nice Moscow Mules with dinner?

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:46 pm
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:43 pm
Diiny wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:10 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:26 pm
linki: This isn't really an argument I'd shoot down with "but wifom, though." Scum isn't going to base their entire nightkill on some weird backward motive play based on the day's previous posts.
what if that's what they want you to think
welcome to wifom hell.
Noob question: What is wifom?
WIFOM stands for Wine in Front of Me -- it's a reference to a scene in the movie The Princess Bride spoilered below:

Spoiler: show
Mafiascum's wiki defines it as "the circular reasoning that results from trying to determine the choices of an opponent who acted with full knowledge that their behavior would be subject to scrutiny."

Essentially, an example of WIFOM could be as follows:

- Elohcin was the player who killed JackofHearts because she is the sole player who was the subject of his suspicion.
- However, the mafia could want us to think that Elohcin was the player who killed JackofHearts, which means Elohcin is clearly not the killer!
- However... and repeat.

HA! Love it! Just bought that movie on digital streaming too.

Anyway, rethinking Elo's comments about the "frame job" and now I'm suddenly thinking she's a bit hinky again. It just seems like you're protesting too much/being defensive. I mean, I thought she was pretty helpful with explaining a few things about the local meta. However, there's also the "Boo mafia!" post right after the night ended, and the posting about how she was getting framed (which seems a bit defensive).

Really, if I were a scummer looking to do a framejob (puts on the evil hat for a second for that POV), I'd probably try to frame you MP by killing Dom. Or vice versa.

Elo, I feel that in an OT sense she's being very helpful and I think that's messing with my read of her. But now that MP posted the other observations, particularly her lack of reads... I'm inclined to Vote Elohcin as well. It feels like she's coasting a bit. Maybe I'm crazy.

[mention]MovingPictures07[/mention]

Specifically this response, which I didn't include in that text. Apologies for not being clear.

Dom wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:21 pm
Nah.

This is a pretty good reason to think you're bullshitting.

Where you provided a pretty good rationale in your response, they responded with this. It bothers me.

Dom wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:47 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:24 pm Dom is bad, folks. Let's lynch him please. He's flinging bullshit opinions he can't even back up.
lol

You can't summarize your thoughts onto LC into a single sentence. It's because it's a hodgepodge of bullshit that you're going around your ass to get to your elbow to create.

But sure. The person that you, earlier tonight, said was making good points is now bullshitting because they're challenging you.

Again, just basically the "I know you are but what am I" defense. Not liking this a bit. Maybe Dom is just a conflicting style with you, but as an outsider looking in, it just feels off to me.

Diiny wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:10 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:26 pm
linki: This isn't really an argument I'd shoot down with "but wifom, though." Scum isn't going to base their entire nightkill on some weird backward motive play based on the day's previous posts.
what if that's what they want you to think
welcome to wifom hell.

Noob question: What is wifom?

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:19 pm Just popping in on phone for a second to respond to this as I stay caught up:

Dom wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:05 pm
MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:34 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:31 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:01 am
Dom wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:58 pmI don't buy that MP totally thinks you're civ for a second.
Why not? I'm in the elite green of his list, and he's stated more than once that he doesn't think I'm bad, if I recall correctly.
I don't see that as genuine for a second.

Can you explain what specifically leads you to that conclusion? I need to try to figure out whether you're just painting me with a mafia brush opportunistically or whether you genuinely believe I'm being dishonest, and I can't do that if all you say is you don't find my read of LC to be genuine and don't elaborate.
Perhaps you could answer some questions for me about it to better explain myself.

In ten words or less (TEN WORDS OR LESS): why is LC good?
No. You're not deflecting this back onto me. I've spoken about LC at length and you're the one who made the statement accusing me of dishonesty. You made an assertion and stated it more than once that you don't buy my read of LC to be genuine. That means the burden of proof is on YOU to substantiate that claim, because you already apparently read what I said enough to make a strongly worded judgment that you think I'm lying. Therefore it's your responsibility to explain yourself, otherwise you're just slinging mud baselessly and that's incredibly suspicious.

(The broken quote was bothering the #### out of me there. Had to fix that.)

This is the post that caught my eye, really. Been thinking about this. I highlighted LC's response because I really don't like that defense of "well, I'm cleared by MP!" It just seems akin to the cop hitting a person that has a town cloak and them going, "Hey, look, I'm town because so-and-so proved it!" You aren't saying you're town because of what you've done, but rather because what other people are presuming. Honestly, this reads to me like both Dom and MP are town, though I'd say Dom is moreso than MP in THIS post, if only because MP gets defensive about speaking at length. HOWEVER...

MP does follow up today with this post.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:16 pm I won't be around until the early evening Central/Eastern time at the earliest.

I haven't caught up but I want to emphasize that I'm still feeling strongly about Dom. Since I know I won't be around until closer to the deadline, I wanted to take a handful of minutes here to clarify as clearly as possible why I suspect Dom as strongly as I do. So here's my interpretation of the exact train of events as it went down, and I want some outside opinions on this (barring they haven't come already and aren't going to anyway) to see what you all think -- and significantly, make sure I'm not just tunneling because it's about me, so I'm curious as to whether any of you all agree that (1) this is indeed how it went down and (2) this is suspicious, because I feel that it's important.

Dom: I believe MP is being dishonest about his feelings re: LC. (He said this not only here but again here in a very assertive/strongly worded fashion.)

MP: I request that you explain how you came to this conclusion -- because I cannot discern how you did so and this is important as to make a determination as to whether you are lying or not. (I said this here after he made the assertion twice as referenced above.)

Dom: Restate your feelings on LC (succinctly, specifically in 10 words or less) so that I can better explain myself. (He said this here.)

MP: You avoided answering my question, and I feel that is suspicious. I will not acquiesce to your request to summarize because you made the assertion accusing me of dishonesty, therefore it is your responsibility to expand on how you reached that conclusion. reference

Dom: I refuse to acquiesce to your request and I double down on my assertion that you're bullshitting. reference

MP: You STILL haven't answered the question. This is suspicious. The burden of proof is on you to explain why you think my LC thoughts are disingenuous. reference

Why would a townie not make any effort at all to clarify? I admittedly have a long history with Dom (he played my first game ever 7 years ago and we consistently butt heads because we approach things differently), but I see absolutely no reason why Dom would behave this way at all if town. Literally everything is textbook scum. Dom makes an assertion that I'm full of crap, but he can't explain it. And now I feel as though, now backed into a corner because I called him out on it, Dom is doubling down on his original assertion that I'm full of shit re: LC, and instead of even briefly trying to explain where he was coming from, he refuses to, and therefore I have every reason to believe he is the one full of shit, and is trying to turn this into a one vs. one argument so that he doesn't have to explain himself -- because he can't. Because he fabricated his opinion. Townies don't care about consistency; they care about getting to the truth. Baddies are much more apt to be consistent in my view; at least when townies are consistent they are able to explain their train of thoughts -- which is EXACTLY what Long Con did when I went back and forth with him over and over and precisely why I'm town reading him. Because LC seemed genuinely interested in convincing others of that fact and in engaging me. Dom doesn't seem concerned with ANY of that at all; instead, he falls back into consistency because it's all he has to play at this point, and he's not trying to convince anyone, he just keeps barking his opinion with little persuasion.

This is important because I feel extremely strongly about this, but I am aware of how I easily can go down rabbitholes as town and lose sight of something to a fault and mislynch a townie, so if you all aren't seeing any of this, I feel as though I need to know why. Because I feel as though we have a 98% chance of lynching a scum in Dom at this moment.

I'll be back later to investigate other things because I feel as though I've taken this as far as I can -- for now I really need to refocus on the PhD. Thanks to everyone else who has contributed other discussion thus far. Let's make this as productive a D2 as possible.

Now, to me, this is a pretty persuasive argument, and he does a lot of citations. If he's a scummer, he's a very INVOLVED scummer, and I don't know his scum vs town style, as I haven't had a chance to review past games. However, I feel that he's town from this and previous posting, as I think that if he was scum, he'd have worked harder to put my feet to the fire.

So [mention]Sloonei[/mention] to answer your question of who I'm leaning towards as scum! Hah, see, I get there eventually.

My main suspects right now (and keep in mind these are suspects, if they post and give me answers, I can go through and rethink things):

Simon (though there are valid RL concerns, but I'm not completely convinced with him)
Long Con (the defense highlighted above, it just seems like "MP gave me a clean bill of health!" without really proving a defense)
Dom (Don't like their side of the argument back and forth with MP. It felt like MP was giving examples and their response was "whatever")

Also, a little tweaky about dunya, just because I think he either missed the vote button or he's being passive-aggressive to me.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:18 pm can we perhaps ask all players to post itt when they cast a vote or change their vote. I find it very useful and important to see the order and patterns of voting when catching scum. I feel very confused when I just see a tally up there.

That said, I have cast an initial vote on blooper

But you put the vote on me.

Which is fine, it's still 4 hours-ish in the day, but I think it's a little goofy that you said that we should be clear on where we vote and everything... and then you place the vote elsewhere without posting that you changed it. I'm guessing that you placed the vote by mistake since Blooper (seriously, blooper? where do you get these names?!?) is right next to me on the list and you're feeling migrainey?

Going out to dinner now, will be back in about 60-90 mins.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:53 am I appreciate the clarification RE: everything, @malakim2099, thank you. Care to share your top 2 or 3 suspects with us all?

Just had a whole ton of work dropped on me IRL (I finished my work, but someone else didn't so I got all her leftover work now). And I'd rather take the time to back things up with quotes instead of saying "so and so" is suspicious to me, considering last night's discussion. Just didn't want you thinking I was ignoring you.

Yeah, maybe I'm taking this a little too seriously, but I want to make a good impression.

Though, the recent flame up between MP and Dom/LC was interesting to me. Will dig a bit more into that and get back to you.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:43 am
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:39 am
Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:32 am Simon is a 10 year old aspie for all of you questioning any logic in his posts. He's an awesome kid having fun. And I'm proud of his contributions thus far. I think he's been very insightful, however, I know how to read his posts and understand his meaning. I know that can be difficult for those who don't know him.
Thanks for the clarification! Much appreciated.
No problem . I hate to have to explain him to people and was trying not to have to. But I don't want to see him lynched unreasonably. So that's all Ill say about him in that respect.

I prefer reasonable lynches, myself.

As far as Dom goes... it wasn't just you. Still trying to caffeine up for today, between work and the game.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:32 am Simon is a 10 year old aspie for all of you questioning any logic in his posts. He's an awesome kid having fun. And I'm proud of his contributions thus far. I think he's been very insightful, however, I know how to read his posts and understand his meaning. I know that can be difficult for those who don't know him.

Thanks for the clarification! Much appreciated.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:29 am
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:54 pm Well, unlike most of the Internet, I will admit when I was wrong. After taking the time to go through and read the first two pages, I don't mind MP that much. Maybe that will change (as I haven't hit the meat of the final hours yet), but I'm rethinking some assumptions I made on skimming things. Will keep posting every 2-3 pages of reading so I can articulate thoughts so far (since otherwise people might think I fell asleep or something.)

Simon's comment of "people voting for their role in Day 0" just seems weird to me. I don't like that. It almost feels like some fishing. I know that we can't claim/hint in thread, why would people do that in a poll?

Also not feeling the Sloonei hate in Day 1. Yeah, Dhalsim being an alien is a goofy statement, and you get hate on Day 0 for that. Getting votes and nearly being booted just for that? That feels bad to me. Though I do wish that the votes tracked better during the day phase since they could be changed.

But after going to this point, since we're guaranteed a departure every day-phase with a plurality... D1, I think going for an inactive isn't a bad idea. Normally on HCRealms rules I dislike it, but here, I can see it working.
My self-centeredness has lead me to an observation here. Malakim, you note that it's ridiculous for me to get votes for my "goofy" statement about Dhalsim on Day 0 and, while I appreciate the support, it's not true that I received votes for this. Speedchuck voted me for what amounted to no reason, and Jay and diiny voted for me for perceived meta reasons. None of those people argued that my Dhalsim comment was a reason for suspicion. Really, nobody has done that at any point in this game.

Jay voted for me and suggested I could have used that line of questioning to kick off the game. I took it as a plain and simple pressure vote and was surprised that it stayed on my til the end of the day. I would have been more concerned if he didn't throw a vote my way at any point on Day 1 (he almost always does), I'm just not used to having it stay there. Seeing as he's now had to duck out for a replacement (that can happen?), it is less concerning to me, but I still can't put him (or his spot in the game) as anything better than a neutral read right now. I thought his line of questioning against me was fair and right up Jay's alley, but that's not saying much for him and he was unable to follow up on anything in any meaningful way.

Diiny voted for me and cited a past scum game we played together as his basis. I asked a follow-up question at the time but I don't recall him answering it. Hey @Diiny, how am I playing now?

Well, that was a post I made after going through just the first two pages in detail. In the first two pages it felt a little weird that you were getting pushed on for that (even if the voting was changed off later), but the later voting for you seemed legitimate to ferret out information to me. This is the point where I do miss how HCR does voting (mod posting counts during the day as votes can change) so you can track the count of votes during the day when you go back and look at the flow of voting and see where the pressure was at what point.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention]

Yeah, I admit I'm not used to the level of tagging/quoting you guys use here, so bear with me. (Man, I miss HCR's multiquotes!)

RE: Elohcin

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:22 pm
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:39 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:04 pm I don't like this voting for someone who doesn't post. I'm not saying MP is scummy because he initiated it, I just think it sucks for all. can't no shows be replaced with other players?
I think this combined with his consumption of most of the day going round and round with LC makes him suspicious. To me at least.

Again, maybe the long-time players can correct me here, but it just seems fishy is all. I could easily be off base.
MP always seems to pick someone to go round and round with in the beginning of games. It doesn't atick out tobme as something to say he's bad.

I liked the meta-helpful post here. At least, it was helpful to me. Also, her posting during night with JoH/MP I thought was useful for the town.

As far as what made me suspicious at first, it was her early posting. Particularly the defense of Simon and then the voting for bass. Now, I admit that initially I wasn't a fan of voting out a non-participator, but in this format where a vote-out is gonna happen... well, in that case you kinda have to without something more solid. Will have to think about the meta implications of that more since I'm not used to that. Regarding Simon...

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:57 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:40 pm Hi Blooper!
I'll get the hang of nicknames soon enough

Good luck town! It's 12.40am in Sweden and Monday morning emplloyment awaits.
Ooo, Sweden. I'm fascinated by other places because I've never been off the east coast of the United States.

I think Simon is civ. I agree with MP that his contributions seem solid. I will also say that Simon is right in that we were talking about street fighter costumes for Halloween. We like to dress up as a family sometimes and I was asking who Abigail (my daughter) and I could be. I was unsure of how many girls were in the game. And I brought up how the characters wear almost nothing and we couldn't dress like skanks (well ever!) but specifically at the end of October. Anyway. That's all I'll say about that.

The bolded is initially was what made me twitch. Mainly because it read that she was saying that she agreed with MP that Simon's contributions were solid... which I don't think MP said at all? (And honestly, at that point all Simon said was 'favorite char = role you got' IIRC). But then rereading the post in more detail last night it looked like she was saying that MP''s contribution was solid. Which makes more sense.

RE: JoH

It was just a minor difference. Mostly the fact that he was being a lot more detailed and precise, which I think you have to be here (as I found out almost the hard way!) Not that JoH doesn't do that at HCR, he's one of the more meticulous people at Realms... but here it just got kicked up to 11. But then it feels like you pretty much have to be.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:31 pm I highly suspect I'm going to be silenced, which is why I wanted to keep current with this thread until deadline. Pursue and interrogate everyone. I won't be back until the Day and hopefully I'll be able to post, but I'm not holding my breath.

malakim, I also wanted to say I appreciate your elaboration and recent efforts to get grounded into the game. I'd move you up to neutral because for now you've addressed the concerns I've had.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

I freely admit that at HCR, we have a way too heavy reliance on night powers as townies, and I want to shake off those bad habits. Which is why I decided to give this a try.

Really, I should run a vanilla game over there to try and mix things up a bit. Haven't had one of those in a LONG time.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:19 pm Yeah, Simon and Mal in particular need to give me more.

Okay, I think I'm honestly not understanding what you mean. Because MP called me out (rightly) for being vague when I skimmed the previous day phase. So I read it more in depth, got some better impressions, posted those impressions...?

I mean, do you just want me to multi-quote where I'm getting that from? It'll take some time since I'm multi-tasking right now, but I can...

Actually, I wasn't kidding. Is there a multi-quote button, or not so much?

Okay, caught up! Read a lot deeper here, and these are my impressions, based on what I've read.

Diiny - I liked his vote for Sloonei, and I liked his bulldogging around on D1. Pretty sure he's a townie or civ or whatever you call them here.

MP - Actually, in retrospect, I take back what I was saying about him. Reading it closer, the posts appear pretty well reasoned (or are meant to look reasoned, but then that's the I know that you know that I know that you know game). Overall, scaling back the suspicious thoughts of him. Pretty sure he's townie/civ too. I do appreciate the elaboration that yes, this is his normal play.

JoH - Fairly confident in his play here, but it's different than his Realms play to a degree.

Sloonei -Seemed to keep it low-key despite the pressure he was under, which this early seems to be civ-ish to me.

Elochin - Having trouble getting a read. She was helpful, but then that's a great way to seem civ-ish too.

Long Con - I don't know if this is a thing, but I know I've gotten really defensive when accused early in a game when I was a scummer elsewhere. And... well, I'm not familiar with the player. But it feels like he's reacting the way I did in those situations, which makes me feel a little twitchy.

Simon - Considering LC had enough on him to merit a vote, I don't like Simon's fixation on the poll and E Honda-hating D0 to vote for LC. Especially when there was the split between Sloonei or Bass, and this feels like a random vote when you could go one way or the other.

Anyway, that's the general impressions I have so far after taking the time to take a deep read. I need to figure out multiquoting on here, or do you just do it the old-fashioned way with lots of copy/pasta?

Well, unlike most of the Internet, I will admit when I was wrong. After taking the time to go through and read the first two pages, I don't mind MP that much. Maybe that will change (as I haven't hit the meat of the final hours yet), but I'm rethinking some assumptions I made on skimming things. Will keep posting every 2-3 pages of reading so I can articulate thoughts so far (since otherwise people might think I fell asleep or something.)

Simon's comment of "people voting for their role in Day 0" just seems weird to me. I don't like that. It almost feels like some fishing. I know that we can't claim/hint in thread, why would people do that in a poll?

Also not feeling the Sloonei hate in Day 1. Yeah, Dhalsim being an alien is a goofy statement, and you get hate on Day 0 for that. Getting votes and nearly being booted just for that? That feels bad to me. Though I do wish that the votes tracked better during the day phase since they could be changed.

But after going to this point, since we're guaranteed a departure every day-phase with a plurality... D1, I think going for an inactive isn't a bad idea. Normally on HCRealms rules I dislike it, but here, I can see it working.

Also YAY for tagging actually working now!

Not ignoring. Reading. And re-evaluating some suspicions based on what I'm seeing now that I'm reading the thread when it isn't 1) right before bed and 2) when I'm at work. Give me a little bit.

Though [mention]MovingPictures07[/mention], I can't remember the last time I was in a game that had a dozen pages+ before Day 1, so I think rethinking my expectations is in order.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:39 pm
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:36 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:34 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:33 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:12 pm My ats aren't red.
When you type the @ symbol before the name of the person you are mentioning, a drop down with their name will appear, you have to click their name in order to turn it into a mention.
@Spacedaisy

we don't get that
Actually, I'm not seeing it either.
your reputation precedes you...

Well, then I'm gonna die tonight.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:34 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:33 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:12 pm My ats aren't red.
When you type the @ symbol before the name of the person you are mentioning, a drop down with their name will appear, you have to click their name in order to turn it into a mention.
@Spacedaisy

we don't get that

Actually, I'm not seeing it either.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:23 pm

You cannot use certain BBCodes: [mention.

Your reputation clearly proceeds you.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:22 pm
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:39 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:04 pm I don't like this voting for someone who doesn't post. I'm not saying MP is scummy because he initiated it, I just think it sucks for all. can't no shows be replaced with other players?
I think this combined with his consumption of most of the day going round and round with LC makes him suspicious. To me at least.

Again, maybe the long-time players can correct me here, but it just seems fishy is all. I could easily be off base.
MP always seems to pick someone to go round and round with in the beginning of games. It doesn't atick out tobme as something to say he's bad.

_________________________________________

So, wow! I don't think I've ever been analyzed this much in a game before. Please keep talking. I love hearing what you guys think my mera is. I honestly don't know if I have a specific civ or acum meta. I think I pretty much play the same either way and it's just a crapshoot whether players think I'm good or bad as well as whether I turn out to be good or bad despite their thoughts on me.

I'm just enjoying trying to figure out where everyone is coming from in this new (to me) way of doing things. It's fun!

I mean, I could be totally way off base (and thanks for the clarification on MP's style), but this is something I want to do where I start reading the posts and seeing what's there instead of relying on night powers to save us. Which, admittedly, I can get lazy about at the home place. Figured this is a good way to get that out of my system.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:07 pm
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:00 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:42 pm
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:39 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:04 pm I don't like this voting for someone who doesn't post. I'm not saying MP is scummy because he initiated it, I just think it sucks for all. can't no shows be replaced with other players?
I think this combined with his consumption of most of the day going round and round with LC makes him suspicious. To me at least.

Again, maybe the long-time players can correct me here, but it just seems fishy is all. I could easily be off base.
Hey, Mal.

Who is bad?
Not me?

Seriously, leaning towards MP and Eloh at this point. And maybe you, because you're posting.
Why MP? Why Eloh?

MP's devouring the entire day going after LC, then breaking off and voting for an inactive instead just... I dunno, it rubs me the wrong way. Maybe that's just a town style for him, but to me it just feels off. Especially since that can really just drown out other possible suspects. I mean, it is Day 1, so I don't necessarily believe it for certain, but if you asked me which direction I was leaning, that would be one.

As far as Eloh is concerned... I find the logic of "vote out the non-participating" in Day 1 to be a bit suspect. Now, admittedly, I'm not used to a 'plurality vote' style of game, but where I'm from it's a great way to winnow out the town before they can be replaced with active players. And then you have the shield of "well, I didn't know they were town because they didn't say anything!"

That's why I find them both suspicious at the moment. JoH I find suspicious because I always find JoH suspicious. It's just how we do things.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:00 pm @malakim2099 sorry, I should have realized you were talking about MP from pronouns, but it wouldn't be the first time someone confused me as a male on the internet.

No problem, I saw how that post could be confusing.

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