Street Fighter II Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Sloonei]

Let's vote for ninja blooper because I don't remember anything she's said.

[Sloonei]

Dom is bad, folks. Let's lynch him please. He's flinging bullshit opinions he can't even back up.

lol

You can't summarize your thoughts onto LC into a single sentence. It's because it's a hodgepodge of bullshit that you're going around your ass to get to your elbow to create.

But sure. The person that you, earlier tonight, said was making good points is now bullshitting because they're challenging you.

What specifically seems convoluted about MP's stance on Long Con?

[Sloonei]

I found a thing. [mention]nijuukyugou[/mention]

I'm gonna go write for a bit. I'm looking at people who don't stand out, toeing that line of participating and contributing. Too many Days 1 with voting the weirdo.

Linki - I am Blooper! :waves:

In this post you mention some vague unnamed people at whom you are looking, but you never mention any of these people by name. Can you point to anybody who is or was playing with this particular low-key style?

But then later, this:

Okay, cool.

I don't feel great about lurker voting on Day 1, but it's what I feel most comfortable with at this juncture. I'm still open to being persuaded though.

Whom would you vote if you couldn't vote for Bass or another lurker with me?

Probably either JJJ or speed for the votes on Sloonei for the Dhalsim thing. I'm wary of voting that way for the "look at me, I'm standing out on Day 1!" reasons I stated earlier. I want more info, and I like that playing is happening and want to keep it that way for today.

This seems to be the exact opposite of your previously stated line of thought. Whereas you'd previously stated that you're wary of people who don't stand out on Day 1, here you seem to be saying that you are wary of players for standing out too much on Day 1. Which is it? Or are you just wary of anything with a pulse around here?

also i'll point out again that Jay certainly did not vote for me because of what I had to say about Dhalsim, so it strikes me as odd that you would state a suspicion based on something that didn't actually happen. Could you clarify or elaborate on elaborate on what you mean here?

[Sloonei]

I was hoping I'd have time for more ISOs but my brain is fried and sentences are getting harder to type. I'm intrigued by the sudden developments between Dom & MP and I look forward to some follow up from and about them. I am still inclined to read MP as town, but his strong reaction against Dom stands out a lot. I'd like to hear more from Dom before I offer a read on him. Give me lots of stuff to read over breakfast tomorrow, folks.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Perfect. Tyvm, Daisyb

@Jackofhearts2005

I'm turning at mention off for you specifically until we can get it sorted.

[malakim2099]

[mention]Sloonei[/mention]

Yeah, I admit I'm not used to the level of tagging/quoting you guys use here, so bear with me. (Man, I miss HCR's multiquotes!)

RE: Elohcin

I don't like this voting for someone who doesn't post. I'm not saying MP is scummy because he initiated it, I just think it sucks for all. can't no shows be replaced with other players?

I think this combined with his consumption of most of the day going round and round with LC makes him suspicious. To me at least.

Again, maybe the long-time players can correct me here, but it just seems fishy is all. I could easily be off base.

MP always seems to pick someone to go round and round with in the beginning of games. It doesn't atick out tobme as something to say he's bad.

I liked the meta-helpful post here. At least, it was helpful to me. Also, her posting during night with JoH/MP I thought was useful for the town.

As far as what made me suspicious at first, it was her early posting. Particularly the defense of Simon and then the voting for bass. Now, I admit that initially I wasn't a fan of voting out a non-participator, but in this format where a vote-out is gonna happen... well, in that case you kinda have to without something more solid. Will have to think about the meta implications of that more since I'm not used to that. Regarding Simon...

Hi Blooper!
I'll get the hang of nicknames soon enough

Good luck town! It's 12.40am in Sweden and Monday morning emplloyment awaits.

Ooo, Sweden. I'm fascinated by other places because I've never been off the east coast of the United States.

I think Simon is civ. I agree with MP that his contributions seem solid. I will also say that Simon is right in that we were talking about street fighter costumes for Halloween. We like to dress up as a family sometimes and I was asking who Abigail (my daughter) and I could be. I was unsure of how many girls were in the game. And I brought up how the characters wear almost nothing and we couldn't dress like skanks (well ever!) but specifically at the end of October. Anyway. That's all I'll say about that.

The bolded is initially was what made me twitch. Mainly because it read that she was saying that she agreed with MP that Simon's contributions were solid... which I don't think MP said at all? (And honestly, at that point all Simon said was 'favorite char = role you got' IIRC). But then rereading the post in more detail last night it looked like she was saying that MP''s contribution was solid. Which makes more sense.

RE: JoH

It was just a minor difference. Mostly the fact that he was being a lot more detailed and precise, which I think you have to be here (as I found out almost the hard way!) Not that JoH doesn't do that at HCR, he's one of the more meticulous people at Realms... but here it just got kicked up to 11. But then it feels like you pretty much have to be.

[malakim2099]

Well, unlike most of the Internet, I will admit when I was wrong. After taking the time to go through and read the first two pages, I don't mind MP that much. Maybe that will change (as I haven't hit the meat of the final hours yet), but I'm rethinking some assumptions I made on skimming things. Will keep posting every 2-3 pages of reading so I can articulate thoughts so far (since otherwise people might think I fell asleep or something.)

Simon's comment of "people voting for their role in Day 0" just seems weird to me. I don't like that. It almost feels like some fishing. I know that we can't claim/hint in thread, why would people do that in a poll?

Also not feeling the Sloonei hate in Day 1. Yeah, Dhalsim being an alien is a goofy statement, and you get hate on Day 0 for that. Getting votes and nearly being booted just for that? That feels bad to me. Though I do wish that the votes tracked better during the day phase since they could be changed.

But after going to this point, since we're guaranteed a departure every day-phase with a plurality... D1, I think going for an inactive isn't a bad idea. Normally on HCRealms rules I dislike it, but here, I can see it working.

My self-centeredness has lead me to an observation here. Malakim, you note that it's ridiculous for me to get votes for my "goofy" statement about Dhalsim on Day 0 and, while I appreciate the support, it's not true that I received votes for this. Speedchuck voted me for what amounted to no reason, and Jay and diiny voted for me for perceived meta reasons. None of those people argued that my Dhalsim comment was a reason for suspicion. Really, nobody has done that at any point in this game.

Jay voted for me and suggested I could have used that line of questioning to kick off the game. I took it as a plain and simple pressure vote and was surprised that it stayed on my til the end of the day. I would have been more concerned if he didn't throw a vote my way at any point on Day 1 (he almost always does), I'm just not used to having it stay there. Seeing as he's now had to duck out for a replacement (that can happen?), it is less concerning to me, but I still can't put him (or his spot in the game) as anything better than a neutral read right now. I thought his line of questioning against me was fair and right up Jay's alley, but that's not saying much for him and he was unable to follow up on anything in any meaningful way.

Diiny voted for me and cited a past scum game we played together as his basis. I asked a follow-up question at the time but I don't recall him answering it. Hey @Diiny, how am I playing now?

Well, that was a post I made after going through just the first two pages in detail. In the first two pages it felt a little weird that you were getting pushed on for that (even if the voting was changed off later), but the later voting for you seemed legitimate to ferret out information to me. This is the point where I do miss how HCR does voting (mod posting counts during the day as votes can change) so you can track the count of votes during the day when you go back and look at the flow of voting and see where the pressure was at what point.

[Elohcin]

Simon is a 10 year old aspie for all of you questioning any logic in his posts. He's an awesome kid having fun. And I'm proud of his contributions thus far. I think he's been very insightful, however, I know how to read his posts and understand his meaning. I know that can be difficult for those who don't know him.

[malakim2099]

Simon is a 10 year old aspie for all of you questioning any logic in his posts. He's an awesome kid having fun. And I'm proud of his contributions thus far. I think he's been very insightful, however, I know how to read his posts and understand his meaning. I know that can be difficult for those who don't know him.

Thanks for the clarification! Much appreciated.

[Elohcin]

Now....as for the game, I'm a little overwhelmed. Did Dom just come out of nowhere? Or ia that just me? And sloonei is really starting to make opinions now. But there are atill so many quiet players. We must not forgwt about them.

I have a horribly busy day with work, school, an appointment, a play date, and another mafia game I'm in. I will be back later hopefully with an opinion on who I think is bad. For now, I think all the names being thrown around are civ.

[Elohcin]

Simon is a 10 year old aspie for all of you questioning any logic in his posts. He's an awesome kid having fun. And I'm proud of his contributions thus far. I think he's been very insightful, however, I know how to read his posts and understand his meaning. I know that can be difficult for those who don't know him.

Thanks for the clarification! Much appreciated.

No problem . I hate to have to explain him to people and was trying not to have to. But I don't want to see him lynched unreasonably. So that's all Ill say about him in that respect.

[malakim2099]

Simon is a 10 year old aspie for all of you questioning any logic in his posts. He's an awesome kid having fun. And I'm proud of his contributions thus far. I think he's been very insightful, however, I know how to read his posts and understand his meaning. I know that can be difficult for those who don't know him.

Thanks for the clarification! Much appreciated.

No problem . I hate to have to explain him to people and was trying not to have to. But I don't want to see him lynched unreasonably. So that's all Ill say about him in that respect.

I prefer reasonable lynches, myself.

As far as Dom goes... it wasn't just you. Still trying to caffeine up for today, between work and the game.

[speedchuck]

JoH was killed by the mafia. Thus:

MP is most likely town. If he were on a scumteam that was planning to kill Jack, he wouldn't have wasted a scumread on the guy. Rather, MP would have townread Jack and agreed with any wrong assumptions jack made until he died. I'm not even assuming optimal play here. MP wouldn't waste the time looking for a scumread on a guy he's going to kill.

Eloh doesn't look good from this, though it could be a framing job. JoH was the only player who really questioned/suspected Eloh. To kill him is either exactly what it looks like (mafia Eloh shutting him up), or someone who wants us to think that.

Malakim could be Eloh teammate.

Rainbow incoming.

[speedchuck]

speedchuck
Bass_the_Clever
Jackofhearts2005

MovingPictures07
Long Con
Diiny
Simon
dunya
DFaraday
Dom
DrWilgy
Sloonei
JaggedJimmyJay
nijuukyugou
Elohcin
malakim2099

This isn't as distinct a rainbow as I'd hoped, and I feel like it's being influenced too heavily by my Eloh/malakim theory. Bah. I need to read more. I am feeling pretty darn good about my top read, though.

[Elohcin]

Frame job for sure.

[Sloonei]

I appreciate the clarification RE: everything, [mention]malakim2099[/mention], thank you. Care to share your top 2 or 3 suspects with us all?

[Sloonei]

Frame job for sure.

Who framed you?

[Long Con]

JoH was killed by the mafia. Thus:

MP is most likely town. If he were on a scumteam that was planning to kill Jack, he wouldn't have wasted a scumread on the guy. Rather, MP would have townread Jack and agreed with any wrong assumptions jack made until he died. I'm not even assuming optimal play here. MP wouldn't waste the time looking for a scumread on a guy he's going to kill.

Just to put forth an alternate opinion, since you seem very sure of this one: when I'm on a bad team, especially night 1, deciding on who to kill is usually something that happens after the lynch is done. If MP07 is bad, then I doubt that he crafted his posts around who was going to be killed night 1. I don't agree with your clearing of him, based on that.

[Diiny]

JoH was killed by the mafia. Thus:

MP is most likely town. If he were on a scumteam that was planning to kill Jack, he wouldn't have wasted a scumread on the guy. Rather, MP would have townread Jack and agreed with any wrong assumptions jack made until he died. I'm not even assuming optimal play here. MP wouldn't waste the time looking for a scumread on a guy he's going to kill.

massive wifom though.

will join in properly later but need to get this irk off my chest: is it just me or did jjj in his final big post before asking for a replacement not have any opinions about anyone? seemed to just encourage town giving jjjesque advice. surely in your last big post you'd mention SOMEONE giving you bad vibes or something.

He's back to neutral for me i think

[Sloonei]

JoH was killed by the mafia. Thus:

MP is most likely town. If he were on a scumteam that was planning to kill Jack, he wouldn't have wasted a scumread on the guy. Rather, MP would have townread Jack and agreed with any wrong assumptions jack made until he died. I'm not even assuming optimal play here. MP wouldn't waste the time looking for a scumread on a guy he's going to kill.

Just to put forth an alternate opinion, since you seem very sure of this one: when I'm on a bad team, especially night 1, deciding on who to kill is usually something that happens after the lynch is done. If MP07 is bad, then I doubt that he crafted his posts around who was going to be killed night 1. I don't agree with your clearing of him, based on that.

Do you have any thoughts that aren't about MP?

[Long Con]

Not yet, but I'll be sure to let you know when I do.

[Diiny]

people i distrust: sloo, eloh, squid, mp.

will elaborate when home from work.

[speedchuck]

JoH was killed by the mafia. Thus:

MP is most likely town. If he were on a scumteam that was planning to kill Jack, he wouldn't have wasted a scumread on the guy. Rather, MP would have townread Jack and agreed with any wrong assumptions jack made until he died. I'm not even assuming optimal play here. MP wouldn't waste the time looking for a scumread on a guy he's going to kill.

Just to put forth an alternate opinion, since you seem very sure of this one: when I'm on a bad team, especially night 1, deciding on who to kill is usually something that happens after the lynch is done. If MP07 is bad, then I doubt that he crafted his posts around who was going to be killed night 1. I don't agree with your clearing of him, based on that.

Well, here's another way at looking at it: If MP is bad, he knows JoH is good. For him to suspect JoH like he did would mean he has some hope of making JoH look bad, I.E. making him a mislynch.
If MP thinks he can get JoH mislynched, why would he kill JoH?
I am leaving out some factors. Perhaps teammates drove the decision. Perhaps JoH shone so brightly on night 1 that MP gave up on the prospective shade-casting and just killed him. But I don't think so.

MP isn't cleared, for sure. But I'm not voting him today barring some change in circumstances.

linki: This isn't really an argument I'd shoot down with "but wifom, though." Scum isn't going to base their entire nightkill on some weird backward motive play based on the day's previous posts.

[Sloonei]

people i distrust: sloo, eloh, squid, mp.

will elaborate when home from work.

Not yet, but I'll be sure to let you know when I do.

I look forward to both of these things.

[malakim2099]

I appreciate the clarification RE: everything, @malakim2099, thank you. Care to share your top 2 or 3 suspects with us all?

Just had a whole ton of work dropped on me IRL (I finished my work, but someone else didn't so I got all her leftover work now). And I'd rather take the time to back things up with quotes instead of saying "so and so" is suspicious to me, considering last night's discussion. Just didn't want you thinking I was ignoring you.

Yeah, maybe I'm taking this a little too seriously, but I want to make a good impression.

Though, the recent flame up between MP and Dom/LC was interesting to me. Will dig a bit more into that and get back to you.

[Elohcin]

Frame job for sure.

Who framed you?

Someone who is reading enough of the thread to be able to know JoH thought I'm bad. But also someone who thought it was a possibility that other players would believe the frame job as true. Who could that be?

[Sloonei]

Night kill analysis is not my forte. I've been scum twice in like three years. But I am intrigued by your suggestion that you were framed, Eloh. Do you feel that you were definitely framed, or are you merely suggesting it as a possibility because somebody else brought it up?

[Tangrowth]

I won't be around until the early evening Central/Eastern time at the earliest.

I haven't caught up but I want to emphasize that I'm still feeling strongly about Dom. Since I know I won't be around until closer to the deadline, I wanted to take a handful of minutes here to clarify as clearly as possible why I suspect Dom as strongly as I do. So here's my interpretation of the exact train of events as it went down, and I want some outside opinions on this (barring they haven't come already and aren't going to anyway) to see what you all think -- and significantly, make sure I'm not just tunneling because it's about me, so I'm curious as to whether any of you all agree that (1) this is indeed how it went down and (2) this is suspicious, because I feel that it's important.

Dom: I believe MP is being dishonest about his feelings re: LC. (He said this not only here but again here in a very assertive/strongly worded fashion.)

MP: I request that you explain how you came to this conclusion -- because I cannot discern how you did so and this is important as to make a determination as to whether you are lying or not. (I said this here after he made the assertion twice as referenced above.)

Dom: Restate your feelings on LC (succinctly, specifically in 10 words or less) so that I can better explain myself. (He said this here.)

MP: You avoided answering my question, and I feel that is suspicious. I will not acquiesce to your request to summarize because you made the assertion accusing me of dishonesty, therefore it is your responsibility to expand on how you reached that conclusion. reference

Dom: I refuse to acquiesce to your request and I double down on my assertion that you're bullshitting. reference

MP: You STILL haven't answered the question. This is suspicious. The burden of proof is on you to explain why you think my LC thoughts are disingenuous. reference

Why would a townie not make any effort at all to clarify? I admittedly have a long history with Dom (he played my first game ever 7 years ago and we consistently butt heads because we approach things differently), but I see absolutely no reason why Dom would behave this way at all if town. Literally everything is textbook scum. Dom makes an assertion that I'm full of crap, but he can't explain it. And now I feel as though, now backed into a corner because I called him out on it, Dom is doubling down on his original assertion that I'm full of shit re: LC, and instead of even briefly trying to explain where he was coming from, he refuses to, and therefore I have every reason to believe he is the one full of shit, and is trying to turn this into a one vs. one argument so that he doesn't have to explain himself -- because he can't. Because he fabricated his opinion. Townies don't care about consistency; they care about getting to the truth. Baddies are much more apt to be consistent in my view; at least when townies are consistent they are able to explain their train of thoughts -- which is EXACTLY what Long Con did when I went back and forth with him over and over and precisely why I'm town reading him. Because LC seemed genuinely interested in convincing others of that fact and in engaging me. Dom doesn't seem concerned with ANY of that at all; instead, he falls back into consistency because it's all he has to play at this point, and he's not trying to convince anyone, he just keeps barking his opinion with little persuasion.

This is important because I feel extremely strongly about this, but I am aware of how I easily can go down rabbitholes as town and lose sight of something to a fault and mislynch a townie, so if you all aren't seeing any of this, I feel as though I need to know why. Because I feel as though we have a 98% chance of lynching a scum in Dom at this moment.

I'll be back later to investigate other things because I feel as though I've taken this as far as I can -- for now I really need to refocus on the PhD. Thanks to everyone else who has contributed other discussion thus far. Let's make this as productive a D2 as possible.

[Sloonei]

I don't object to your interpretation of events, [mention]MovingPictures07[/mention], but I need to hear Dom explain himself a bit better before I put him on the chopping block. He's made an assertion which has gone unsubstantiated to this point. It's certainly possible that you're a liar. I'd like to hear how he came to this conclusion.

That said, I'm not sure I'll be around when the time comes. I am once again working tonight, so I'll miss the deadline. I swear I'm going to be here for a deadline eventually.

I'd also still like to hear from Niju, or any thoughts people might have about this post I made last night.

[Sloonei]

A loose rainbow

MovingPictures

dunya
Speedchuck
diiny
Elohcin
Long Con

JJJ
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Simon

malakim
Dom
niju

MP is my top town read and dunya's not far behind. I like what I've seen from speedchuck and diiny but I need to see more of it, especially in diiny's case. He got off to a hot start but has faded a bit. I'm eager to hear his expanded thoughts later. Eloh and LC are GTH reads. I never read them as well as some of the more seasoned Syndicate veterans, but for the moment I don't feel like either of them are lying to me.
I lumped Jay and Simon in with our two silent players because . Jay did standard Jay things when he was here, but that doesn't tell me anything, and I'm not sure how to read Simon.
malakim has answered my first round of questions well enough, but in the absence of any stronger suspects he makes it to the light orange part of my rainbow. His initial read of Elohcin struck me as a fine bit of waffling. Dom needs to answer some things, and I've shared my little bit of thoughts on ninja blooper already, awaiting response.

[Elohcin]

Night kill analysis is not my forte. I've been scum twice in like three years. But I am intrigued by your suggestion that you were framed, Eloh. Do you feel that you were definitely framed, or are you merely suggesting it as a possibility because somebody else brought it up?

Its what I immediately thought when reading the results last night. But I didn't say anything because I figured people would shoot down the idea and just claim I was bad.

[Sloonei]

Night kill analysis is not my forte. I've been scum twice in like three years. But I am intrigued by your suggestion that you were framed, Eloh. Do you feel that you were definitely framed, or are you merely suggesting it as a possibility because somebody else brought it up?

Its what I immediately thought when reading the results last night. But I didn't say anything because I figured people would shoot down the idea and just claim I was bad.

Why was it your first thought?

[dunya]

im so sorry for my lack of contribution today, but i have a migraine and high fever and have been sleeping it off and working from home when i could work. i will post more asap.

[dunya]

leaning town
MovingPictures
sloonei
speedchuck
Elohcin
Simon
dom
JJJ
diiny

leaning scum
niju
malakim
Long Con

not sure...havent read any real posts from either user? inactive?:
DFaraday
DrWilgy

[dunya]

Dom is bad, folks. Let's lynch him please. He's flinging bullshit opinions he can't even back up.

lol

You can't summarize your thoughts onto LC into a single sentence. It's because it's a hodgepodge of bullshit that you're going around your ass to get to your elbow to create.

But sure. The person that you, earlier tonight, said was making good points is now bullshitting because they're challenging you.

both reactions from this exchange as someone neutral to both parties strikes me as frustrated townies going at each other. Can definitely understand dom's concerns, but I feel like MP reacted defensively out of frustration to not being able to get his point through (he really has written a lot about LC, and I daresay summarizing doesn't seem to be his forte ). I do think MP mirroring and basically calling dom scum because he called him scum first is defensive frustration, and exactly what scum team wants. let's not get tunnel vision and remember there's more than one target so as strongly as you think you feel about one person, don't waste ALL focus on that person.

This has leveled you both up as town reads to me, tbh. There's more to why I feel dom is town, which I'll get into separately.

[dunya]

can we perhaps ask all players to post itt when they cast a vote or change their vote. I find it very useful and important to see the order and patterns of voting when catching scum. I feel very confused when I just see a tally up there.

That said, I have cast an initial vote on blooper

[dunya]

Hence part of my suspicion of MP and his accusations of LC falling flat.

As MP may or may not tell you, he actually defended me.

To avoid misinterpretation or whatever: I believe this is mild buddying.

Just to be clear: You believe what is mild buddying, what JOH is doing or what I am doing or something else?

Sorry, my friend, but I meant you. You like direct references, I've noticed, so I'll pull some instances up.

That said, I hesitate to scumread LC. I see your point, dunya, but I'm just not sure it means we're seeing scum!LC here.

Sometimes, when I'm trying to discern someone's motivations, I like to play a little game. I imagine the worst thing they could do, and then see if their actions support that conclusion. In this post, baddie MP applies nice mild buddying, while supporting the point that dunya made and was suspicious of. Further discussion of the topic also matches the profile of a baddie MP who, on one hand he kept the idea of my lynch in people's minds by discussing it a lot, and on the other hand he thought I was town and would say "RIP LC. I thought you were town."

To reiterate/clarify a point I made earlier: I don't think Jack was being serious about his desire to vote for me. His temptation to vote for me boiled down to a "That's racist, man!" joke. I read nothing into it. That it was then picked up, apparently, by speedchuck and Long Con is something worth pursuing in the absence of anything more substantial.

Linki x100: Stop posting so I can post!

I think I agree, but I simultaneously also hesitate to scum-read speedchuck or LC for doing something so brazen. Again this is anecdotal, but in my mind more often than not, most people who play scum roles try everything possible to get the spotlight off of them on Day 1, not put it on them. And what speedchuck and LC did was risky if they're scum.

Again: Agree, but also they're not maybe not scum. But it was brazen and risky.

MP POE Rainbow List #1 - Day 1
dunya
Jackofhearts2005
Simon
Sloonei

Bass_the_Clever
DFaraday
Diiny
Dom
DrWilgy
Elohcin
Long Con
JaggedJimmyJay
malakim2099
nijuukyugou
speedchuck

I won't vote for any of the four green players today.

I could theoretically vote for any of the grey, but I'm feeling hesitant about voting LC or speedchuck. I can't call them town reads but I'm not jumping to eliminate them either.

Again, that dual opinion. A lynch candidate, and a "but I'm hesitant". Do you see the theme here, MP? Do you think I would find more if I keep looking?

somehow, I have a feeling LC wants us to lynch MP. if we do, there's no way he could be scum attacking a player that's defending him right?
reverse psychology and all that.

Man I've been in games where one member of the scum team publicly named another member of his scum team and got him lynched to win the game. Merciless players, and the whole Littlefinger method doesn't help me see you in a better light LC

[dunya]

you will notice i've moved jjj and diiny down my list, because I haven't had a chance to see new contributions of JJJ to new developments and I get wishy washy feelings towards diiny which I'll investigate further to make sure I haven't missed anything major.

[Elohcin]

Night kill analysis is not my forte. I've been scum twice in like three years. But I am intrigued by your suggestion that you were framed, Eloh. Do you feel that you were definitely framed, or are you merely suggesting it as a possibility because somebody else brought it up?

Its what I immediately thought when reading the results last night. But I didn't say anything because I figured people would shoot down the idea and just claim I was bad.

Why was it your first thought?

Because JoH has been after me.

[dunya]

JoH was killed by the mafia. Thus:

MP is most likely town. If he were on a scumteam that was planning to kill Jack, he wouldn't have wasted a scumread on the guy. Rather, MP would have townread Jack and agreed with any wrong assumptions jack made until he died. I'm not even assuming optimal play here. MP wouldn't waste the time looking for a scumread on a guy he's going to kill.

Just to put forth an alternate opinion, since you seem very sure of this one: when I'm on a bad team, especially night 1, deciding on who to kill is usually something that happens after the lynch is done. If MP07 is bad, then I doubt that he crafted his posts around who was going to be killed night 1. I don't agree with your clearing of him, based on that.

Well, here's another way at looking at it: If MP is bad, he knows JoH is good. For him to suspect JoH like he did would mean he has some hope of making JoH look bad, I.E. making him a mislynch.
If MP thinks he can get JoH mislynched, why would he kill JoH?
I am leaving out some factors. Perhaps teammates drove the decision. Perhaps JoH shone so brightly on night 1 that MP gave up on the prospective shade-casting and just killed him. But I don't think so.

MP isn't cleared, for sure. But I'm not voting him today barring some change in circumstances.

linki: This isn't really an argument I'd shoot down with "but wifom, though." Scum isn't going to base their entire nightkill on some weird backward motive play based on the day's previous posts.

this is a exactly why MP seems town to me too. plus he's really been putting his balls out there. I think he's a very defensive player though, and takes being called scum when he's town as an attack. it's because he's put so much effort and emotion into it, and frustrates him even more. i've been there, i've been in games where i knew for a fact who a scum was and everyone else was pointing fingers at me so i started getting offended and rude to them, because JFC i'm doing everything a Townie should why can't you see that?!

so basically, that's the sort of effort and exasperation MP's posts are to me. Townie seal of approval from dunya.

[nijuukyugou]

Shit, I nearly forgot I was playing this. I need a nap and gotta get several things done before I can catch up. Sorry for practically disappearing for a day or so - work was stupid busy yesterday and today.

[nijuukyugou]

I found a thing. @nijuukyugou

I'm gonna go write for a bit. I'm looking at people who don't stand out, toeing that line of participating and contributing. Too many Days 1 with voting the weirdo.

Linki - I am Blooper! :waves:

In this post you mention some vague unnamed people at whom you are looking, but you never mention any of these people by name. Can you point to anybody who is or was playing with this particular low-key style?

But then later, this:

Okay, cool.

I don't feel great about lurker voting on Day 1, but it's what I feel most comfortable with at this juncture. I'm still open to being persuaded though.

Whom would you vote if you couldn't vote for Bass or another lurker with me?

Probably either JJJ or speed for the votes on Sloonei for the Dhalsim thing. I'm wary of voting that way for the "look at me, I'm standing out on Day 1!" reasons I stated earlier. I want more info, and I like that playing is happening and want to keep it that way for today.

This seems to be the exact opposite of your previously stated line of thought. Whereas you'd previously stated that you're wary of people who don't stand out on Day 1, here you seem to be saying that you are wary of players for standing out too much on Day 1. Which is it? Or are you just wary of anything with a pulse around here?

also i'll point out again that Jay certainly did not vote for me because of what I had to say about Dhalsim, so it strikes me as odd that you would state a suspicion based on something that didn't actually happen. Could you clarify or elaborate on elaborate on what you mean here?

Nap complete. Saw votes on me, then saw a post referring back to this, so I shall respond in this bit of time.

First point: I was referring to no one specifically at the time - my plan was to wait and see who would pop in and out of the water throughout the day, but then my vote ended up on Bass because I wanted to feel out MP's vote and because I didn't like the votes on you and wasn't gonna vote that way.

Second point: you misunderstand my meaning in that sentence, but I see where the ambiguity lies in my wording - I was referring to my desire not to vote for players who stand out, twice. I didn't like their votes on you because they voted precisely the reason/way I DIDN'T want to vote. And I am aware JJJ didn't vote bc of the Dahlsim matter - once again, I was referring to voting for a stand out, but it looks as though I lumped them both together for the same voting reason.

I hope that makes sense, but I can explain it differently if my thoughts need clearing up.

[dunya]

were you town or scum on that romance of the three kingdoms, [mention]nijuukyugou[/mention]

[Elohcin]

Thats the shortest nap I've ever seen.

[speedchuck]

While I follow your train of thought, Blooper, trust me on this: I'm not doing wacky crap to show out on D1 just because you were looking for the opposite. I don't WIFOM for just one person.

I do it for everyone. I am the WIFOM master.

[dunya]

i'm sorry i cant contribute more, i really am sick. i read a few old games in hopes of getting a gleam into people's playstyle and it's been useful but im dying

[Sloonei]

Thats the shortest nap I've ever seen.

Apparently squids are much more efficient sleepers than us humans.

[speedchuck]

i'm sorry i cant contribute more, i really am sick. i read a few old games in hopes of getting a gleam into people's playstyle and it's been useful but im dying

Don't die.

And don't despair about your contributions. I'm pretty sure you've done a lot today.

[speedchuck]

I could vote Eloh to try my luck with nightkill analysis, or Dom. I'll vote before dayend, but I don't think I'll be around for it. Considering.

[Sloonei]

Blooper's response does address the points that I was concerned about and I can see where my misinterpretation stems from. I feel slightly better in that regard, but there's nothing she said that compels me to read her as town. She's closer to neutral than scum than she was earlier, at least.

Instead I'll place my vote on Elohcin. Her reaction to the nightkill is not sitting well with me.

Boo Mafia!!!

Her initial reaction is a hollow "I don't like this, mafia are jerks!" comment. This sort of post always rings false to me. The she makes a few other posts about unrelated game things, and when Speedchuck presents his thoughts on the kill, speculating on how Elohcin may or may not be implicated in it, Eloh hops on it with a rather strong stance:

Frame job for sure.

I pressed her on this, and her responses were not particularly illuminating and as I've thought about it I've been feeling less inspired by it. It strikes me as if she is trying to share as little of her thoughts as she can get away with, and I don't like that:

Spoiler: show

Who framed you?

Someone who is reading enough of the thread to be able to know JoH thought I'm bad. But also someone who thought it was a possibility that other players would believe the frame job as true. Who could that be?

Night kill analysis is not my forte. I've been scum twice in like three years. But I am intrigued by your suggestion that you were framed, Eloh. Do you feel that you were definitely framed, or are you merely suggesting it as a possibility because somebody else brought it up?

Its what I immediately thought when reading the results last night. But I didn't say anything because I figured people would shoot down the idea and just claim I was bad.

Seems like backtracking. There is no evidence of her thinking this until someone else brought it up long after her initial reaction to the kill

Why was it your first thought?

Because JoH has been after me.

The vaguest answer possible, reducing the nightkill down entirely to an issue of her position in this game. Seems a bit paranoid to me.

I have to go in a half hour now (jeez it took longer to make this post than I wanted), so I'd like to hear some thoughts on this before I go. What do people think of Eloh?