The Syndicate

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:36 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:56 pm I totally get it, Epi. It may not be easy to see for everyone especially from different game cultures, but this is different. There is a clash of philosophy at the core of how one may interpret mechanical data. We know how much bullshitting we have seen here over the years with mechanics, and how they can be used to obfuscate reality. So when they’re closer to an objective reflection of the game, it isn’t obvious unless you have been there before.

Games with very tight alignment ratios must necessarily be heavily mechanical in design, or they cannot be balanced. 8 vs. 3 only works if some information really is 100% solid. That’s just the lesson going forward. Epi isn’t alone here either — LC and I could have easily failed in designing this gambit. Hell, maybe we DID fail, and that can be attributed to our relative inexperience too.
I should have been the one to come forward with the plan that Tony did. I predicted it in our chat, and I should have taken it a step further than just knowing it was going to happen.

then I would have been the one to stick with the plan hoping that you wouldn't go along with it

Great game Nanook. I've now been beaten by LC in F3/F4 in two Nanook games in a row.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:24 pm Tony not trying to rag on you ~too much but I will say that in mafia you can't always control everyone's reads, for example epi here tinfoiling was beyond your control. If he was going to lynch you despite being cleared, you can't control that, so it's not something you should be worrying about here. Your original plan was good, but you have got to stick to that in future games. If someone is going to tunnel you and gamethrow despite mechanical evidence that's on them, not you. By that same logic, you have to do your part to stick to the mechanical win.

Reads are subjective and everyone gets them wrong, that's sort of mafia. But mechanics are rigid so getting them is the most important part of the game. If there's ever a mechanical win, go for it, don't back out because you assume someone else will game throw next day.

I think you're right Dusk and I'll take this as a learning opportunity. I'll note that the way this played out also was a mechanical win, but it wasn't as clean as my original option. I just overthought it. Bad!

(I'd hoped as a back up that Epi was telling the truth and would become lovers with you)

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:12 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:04 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:02 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:59 pm what even was LC's plan if he nked epi
Honestly, my plan was for you to second-guess the plan and send it to Epi.
weh. I think you had decent odds if the plan was followed. Epi might've believed a blocked claim
That's what I would have thought, were I in your shoes. The fear that an already-LC-sympathetic Epi would believe you blocked me after Duskfall (the obvious kill choice) died. So I risked that you would try to circumvent that by going off-plan and sending it to Epi.

I tried to kill Epignosis that night... if it had gone through, then we'd be left with Duskfall getting no info from you, and that would be my game. Epi not dying made things more sticky.

alright, I was successfully outwined. there's no need in dealing with the rest of it, LC played this correctly.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:03 pm IIRC Tony’s actions were:

N1 Mac (rnged to Nutella’s role)
N2 Dusk (rnged to Jay’s role)
N3 Epi (rnged to LC’s role)

wait
never mind
epi's fault

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:03 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:45 pm God fucking damn it Epi the evidence was all there and you just fucking ignored it. This could have been an easy win but you refused to think for a second. Grrrrrrr

Anyway everyone bow down to my Jaydar

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:49 pm I nailed both remaining mafia before I died, and Tony had proof LC was lying, but no Epi's ego is too big to reevaluate or consider a dead townie's perspective.

I feel bad for Tony having seen all this through neighbor chat too.
For someone so acutely concerned with how words may cause offense or negatively influence someone's mental state, you sure don't seem to mind dishing out some derogation when it suits you.

love you epi. it's my fault this went south

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:02 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:59 pm what even was LC's plan if he nked epi
Honestly, my plan was for you to second-guess the plan and send it to Epi.

weh. I think you had decent odds if the plan was followed. Epi might've believed a blocked claim

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:01 pm Unironically feel like I just played a maf champs game

Everyone please remember this was not my fault when voting

you should have gone for the mylo vote

me and Nutella chat for if anyone is interested in how I determined that I should not follow my own plan: https://discord.gg/Efq3GK

what even was LC's plan if he nked epi

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:33 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:32 am
Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:30 am @TonyStarkPrime are you actually town that had a mechanical win idea then didn't follow it and hard cleared scum or are you trolling? LOL
town, mechanical win idea, didn't follow it, hard cleared scum. not particularly happy about it.
I actually maintain that it was proper play but maybe I was just too tired to be mafiaing.
Going against a 100 percent town win to hard clear scum as town is never the proper play

lets think this through.
I send you a role. LC kills you. Epi doesn't get anything. LC convinces Epi that he (LC) had been blocked. Epi is strongly predisposed to believe LC. I lose. It's not a 100 percent town win.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:30 am @TonyStarkPrime are you actually town that had a mechanical win idea then didn't follow it and hard cleared scum or are you trolling? LOL

town, mechanical win idea, didn't follow it, hard cleared scum. not particularly happy about it.
I actually maintain that it was proper play but maybe I was just too tired to be mafiaing.

two games in a row to one in threes

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:01 am And the one in three, good golly.

Even in this world it works most of the time!

If Epi successfully saved Dusk I have no regerts. If Epi didn’t die via concert mechanics then I overthought it.

gonna be complaining about my lot in life until Nanook locks the thread.

weird mechanics brought us into this nightmare, I’m praying weird mechanics can bring us out.

And the one in three, good golly.

though if LC targeted Epi with the kill I just feel outsmarted anyways

if there’s a doctor role this might be not technically over, though I doubt Epi can doctor himself?

and by someone I mean Nanook

someone just end this misery

he’s mafia. you can flame me, I posted a long explanation in my chat with nutella. FPS never pays.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:52 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:01 pm Night 1, I sent nutella's role to Mac.
Night 2, I sent JJJ's role to Dusk.
Night 3, I sent Dusk's role to Epignosis.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:24 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:00 pm Tony, tell me your actions N1, N2, and N3.

LC, do likewise.
Sent a role to Mac, sent a role to Dusk, sent a role to Epi.
So:

On the Night LC sent a specific role to Mac, you sent a random role to Mac.
On the Night LC sent a specific role to Dusk, you sent a random role to Dusk.
On the Night LC sent a specific role to me, you sent a random role to me.

Is that not some insane coincidence?

LC DIDNT SEND ANY ROLES. EPI. PLEASE. Take a step back. Look at how LC interacted with Mac on day 1. Does it look like LC sent Mac a role? Now look at how I interacted with Mac on day 1. Does it look like I sent Mac a role?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:29 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:27 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:26 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:24 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:00 pm Tony, tell me your actions N1, N2, and N3.

LC, do likewise.
Sent a role to Mac, sent a role to Dusk, sent a role to Epi.
Sent "a role?"

Nah.
Literally this is what my power does. I cannot change what my power does.
Why did you leave out who's roles you sent?

My power is send a random role to a player. That's what it is, that's why I've been saying it is the whole time

losing one nanook endgame for lying about my power, losing another nanook endgame for telling the truth.

here's something we can determine: there does not exist a blocker on the scum team. therefore, if we rerun mylo, we can do this again.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:26 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:24 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:00 pm Tony, tell me your actions N1, N2, and N3.

LC, do likewise.
Sent a role to Mac, sent a role to Dusk, sent a role to Epi.
Sent "a role?"

Nah.

Literally this is what my power does. I cannot change what my power does.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:23 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:01 pm Night 1, I sent nutella's role to Mac.
Night 2, I sent JJJ's role to Dusk.
Night 3, I sent Dusk's role to Epignosis.
You sent Dusk's role to Epi? You sent the role of the only person I could possibly kill? Why did you not send my role to Epi?

The only reason you'd claim this is because you know that if Epi had my role or your role you'd have already lost. But the action doesn't make any sense. And it obviously doesn't make any sense.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:00 pm Tony, tell me your actions N1, N2, and N3.

LC, do likewise.

Sent a role to Mac, sent a role to Dusk, sent a role to Epi.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:01 pm Night 1, I sent nutella's role to Mac.
Night 2, I sent JJJ's role to Dusk.
Night 3, I sent Dusk's role to Epignosis.

You sent Dusk's role to Epi? You sent the role of the only person I could possibly kill? Why did you not send my role to Epi?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:41 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:33 pm this now has an arbitrarily high chance of going south because I tried to be too clever and forgot that epi existed
Explain in the simplest terms possible.

I sent you a role. Did you get a role? If you did don’t say which one, LC still has to snipe the one in three.

this now has an arbitrarily high chance of going south because I tried to be too clever and forgot that epi existed

what the hecka

somehow this is going to go south and it's probably my fault here

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:54 pm The less said, the better. That's why I'm still alive. I told Dusk I sent it to JJJ, not the other way around.

wait what

I sent Dusk a role. Therefore, LC did not send Dusk a role. Therefore, LC is bad.
Look how LC meticulously checks to make sure that his claim won't immediately be countered before. He makes sure that Dusk got the role, and then that Dusk got Jay's role, before claiming.
Look how he interacted with Mac on day 1. He said that he had nothing to do with it. That's not "acting confused", that would be flat up lying. Can you imagine sending someone a role and then claiming you didn't do it, that you had no hand in it, and then not interacting with it at all further?

LC is.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:12 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:35 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:30 pm
Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:23 pm It is possible there are multiple mafia teams and/or 3p i think, my role power is knowing when it is lylo or mylo. When i die the amount of scum alive is also revealed. Might as well claim that now I'm a pr that can probably die and not matter
Shouldn't your role power refer to KYLO?

Multiple scum teams would surprise me in an 11 player game.
weirdest slip of all time.

The fact that the power exists puts me on 3 scum
Weirdest slip of all time!

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:35 pm Given three scum, leetic not one of them
Three huh?

I'll continue if you want. Tony is mafia.

yes continue

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:53 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:44 pm Okay here's a mechanical clear. I'm not losing to LC in another FC.

I am going to target Duskfall with my action tonight.
LC is going to target Epi with his action tonight.

If Duskfall is the target of the night kill, then if LC is telling the truth then Epi will receive my role and the game will be solved. If LC is not telling the truth, Epi will not receive a role and we kill LC.
If Epi is the target of the night kill, then if I am telling the truth then Duskfall will receive a random role and the game will be solved. If I am not telling the truth, Dusk will not receive a role and we kill me.

sound good?
See, I don't give a shit about mechanics. Duskfall showed initiative and cared enough to lynch JJJ.

You came in like

I was asleep are we policing sleep now

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:47 pm Nobody even gives a SHIT about my Night action. How wild is that?

does it disrupt this plan or otherwise affect it?

*F3.

I have like three back up plans if this goes south somehow.

Okay here's a mechanical clear. I'm not losing to LC in another FC.

I am going to target Duskfall with my action tonight.
LC is going to target Epi with his action tonight.

If Duskfall is the target of the night kill, then if LC is telling the truth then Epi will receive my role and the game will be solved. If LC is not telling the truth, Epi will not receive a role and we kill LC.
If Epi is the target of the night kill, then if I am telling the truth then Duskfall will receive a random role and the game will be solved. If I am not telling the truth, Dusk will not receive a role and we kill me.

sound good?

there's a mechanical clear strategy here this game is won for town, give me a few seconds to work this out. It will require LC's participation and does fall apart somewhat if LC has like an RB or whatever but I don't know if we can do anything about that

no dusk I choose a player and they get a role of a random living player

But I think duskfall/LC would be throwing a victory celebration already and might've been around for a quick hammer earlier

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:25 pm
Duskfall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:23 pm Gl if you're alive tomorrow epi
By the way, if you're a civilian (and I believe you are), I admired your play here. Well done.

If you're mafia, well, bravo even more.

If it's like duskfall/LC and they just made everything up today that would be amazing

it's not lc/epi cause that slow play was completely unnecessary

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:15 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:08 pm I am rather confused by something.

I've received a message that seems to be a role that's a rolecop that doesn't get their own info but has to send it to other people.

The role that I received was definitely not the person who sent it. The role I received seems very likely to be a town role. The mafia sending a town, another town's role seems weird. It wasn't sent by Dunya either.

The thing that confuses me the most is that everyone who it could be has suggested I am in the POE/suspect. So someone has sent it to me regardless of me being a suspect to them, or it was actually sent by mafia?
I am not involved in that strange situation. You got a role, right... not a player? As in, you can't clear anyone off this, but merely have the knowledge that there is a rolecop?

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:18 pm
Duskfall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:37 pm Not revealing till role cop claims, this is also my last post until rolecop claims. In the event anyone posts after this without claiming rolecop I'll assume you are not, so town rolecop if you withold your claim the odds are I will end up voting you today and we will lose. There's no reason to withhold here
I sent you JJJ's role last night.

yeet all liars?

okay so you were "playing dumb" about it and you wonder why I didn't get killed. That's totally believable. Well one, Nutella was pretty much confirmed town and had to be killed. They didn't have the option to pick

But this can be mechanically solved, I think. I haven't quite figured out how yet.

link: Apparently LC just hammered jay.?

Okay I just read a lot of confusing stuff but this is really simple. It's just JJJ/LC, Nutella was right all along. uhh, I have a post to quote but I don't think I'm going to come close to post count so give me a second to go find it.

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