Ziggy Stardust Mafia

[Long Con]

what even was LC's plan if he nked epi

Honestly, my plan was for you to second-guess the plan and send it to Epi.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

IIRC Tony’s actions were:

N1 Mac (rnged to Nutella’s role)
N2 Dusk (rnged to Jay’s role)
N3 Epi (rnged to LC’s role)

[Epignosis]

God fucking damn it Epi the evidence was all there and you just fucking ignored it. This could have been an easy win but you refused to think for a second. Grrrrrrr


Anyway everyone bow down to my Jaydar

I nailed both remaining mafia before I died, and Tony had proof LC was lying, but no Epi's ego is too big to reevaluate or consider a dead townie's perspective.

I feel bad for Tony having seen all this through neighbor chat too.

For someone so acutely concerned with how words may cause offense or negatively influence someone's mental state, you sure don't seem to mind dishing out some derogation when it suits you.

[TonyStarkPrime]

what even was LC's plan if he nked epi

Honestly, my plan was for you to second-guess the plan and send it to Epi.

weh. I think you had decent odds if the plan was followed. Epi might've believed a blocked claim

[TonyStarkPrime]

God fucking damn it Epi the evidence was all there and you just fucking ignored it. This could have been an easy win but you refused to think for a second. Grrrrrrr


Anyway everyone bow down to my Jaydar

I nailed both remaining mafia before I died, and Tony had proof LC was lying, but no Epi's ego is too big to reevaluate or consider a dead townie's perspective.

I feel bad for Tony having seen all this through neighbor chat too.

For someone so acutely concerned with how words may cause offense or negatively influence someone's mental state, you sure don't seem to mind dishing out some derogation when it suits you.

love you epi. it's my fault this went south

[TonyStarkPrime]

IIRC Tony’s actions were:

N1 Mac (rnged to Nutella’s role)
N2 Dusk (rnged to Jay’s role)
N3 Epi (rnged to LC’s role)

wait
never mind
epi's fault

[nutella]

God fucking damn it Epi the evidence was all there and you just fucking ignored it. This could have been an easy win but you refused to think for a second. Grrrrrrr


Anyway everyone bow down to my Jaydar

I nailed both remaining mafia before I died, and Tony had proof LC was lying, but no Epi's ego is too big to reevaluate or consider a dead townie's perspective.

I feel bad for Tony having seen all this through neighbor chat too.

For someone so acutely concerned with how words may cause offense or negatively influence someone's mental state, you sure don't seem to mind dishing out some derogation when it suits you.

Hypocrisy blah blah etc. For an educator you sure can display an astonishing lack of critical thinking.

The mechanical bullshit didn't even need to happen. This isn't Tony's fault. All the evidence was in the thread already.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Gang, I understand if things are frustrating. Let’s please try to treat each other decently though. Remember that we still have a moderator on duty in juliets.

[dunya]

let's all remember this is just a game, we lose some and we win some. there's no blame game, we win as a team and we lose as a team. i wouldn't have wanted to be in anyone's shoes this mylo/lylo

[Duskfall]

God fucking damn it Epi the evidence was all there and you just fucking ignored it. This could have been an easy win but you refused to think for a second. Grrrrrrr


Anyway everyone bow down to my Jaydar

I nailed both remaining mafia before I died, and Tony had proof LC was lying, but no Epi's ego is too big to reevaluate or consider a dead townie's perspective.

I feel bad for Tony having seen all this through neighbor chat too.

For someone so acutely concerned with how words may cause offense or negatively influence someone's mental state, you sure don't seem to mind dishing out some derogation when it suits you.

Bro you had the role pm to resolve the 1v1, what was the logic in voting tony??

[Long Con]

what even was LC's plan if he nked epi

Honestly, my plan was for you to second-guess the plan and send it to Epi.

weh. I think you had decent odds if the plan was followed. Epi might've believed a blocked claim

That's what I would have thought, were I in your shoes. The fear that an already-LC-sympathetic Epi would believe you blocked me after Duskfall (the obvious kill choice) died. So I risked that you would try to circumvent that by going off-plan and sending it to Epi.

I tried to kill Epignosis that night... if it had gone through, then we'd be left with Duskfall getting no info from you, and that would be my game. Epi not dying made things more sticky.

[TonyStarkPrime]

what even was LC's plan if he nked epi

Honestly, my plan was for you to second-guess the plan and send it to Epi.

weh. I think you had decent odds if the plan was followed. Epi might've believed a blocked claim

That's what I would have thought, were I in your shoes. The fear that an already-LC-sympathetic Epi would believe you blocked me after Duskfall (the obvious kill choice) died. So I risked that you would try to circumvent that by going off-plan and sending it to Epi.

I tried to kill Epignosis that night... if it had gone through, then we'd be left with Duskfall getting no info from you, and that would be my game. Epi not dying made things more sticky.

alright, I was successfully outwined. there's no need in dealing with the rest of it, LC played this correctly.

[TonyStarkPrime]

(I'd hoped as a back up that Epi was telling the truth and would become lovers with you)

[dunya]

what even was LC's plan if he nked epi

Honestly, my plan was for you to second-guess the plan and send it to Epi.

weh. I think you had decent odds if the plan was followed. Epi might've believed a blocked claim

That's what I would have thought, were I in your shoes. The fear that an already-LC-sympathetic Epi would believe you blocked me after Duskfall (the obvious kill choice) died. So I risked that you would try to circumvent that by going off-plan and sending it to Epi.

I tried to kill Epignosis that night... if it had gone through, then we'd be left with Duskfall getting no info from you, and that would be my game. Epi not dying made things more sticky.

alright, I was successfully outwined. there's no need in dealing with the rest of it, LC played this correctly.

you did your best! <3 thanks for trying. your plans were good, and had they worked, would have been legendary. gotta keep cracking at them

i got pretty excited when i saw Epi was unkillable.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Tony was a huge reason why we found ourselves in a position to gambit in the first place. He blew up everything we had tried to design with POE. This group was ours to eliminate:

Tony himself
Mac
Jiwon
nutella

So, Tony sends nutella’s role to Mac. Mac neighbors with Jiwon.

ALL FOUR OF THEM could clear each other. Tony deserves a ton of credit for that. It definitely ruined the game state I was working toward.

[Duskfall]

Tony not trying to rag on you ~too much but I will say that in mafia you can't always control everyone's reads, for example epi here tinfoiling was beyond your control. If he was going to lynch you despite being cleared, you can't control that, so it's not something you should be worrying about here. Your original plan was good, but you have got to stick to that in future games. If someone is going to tunnel you and gamethrow despite mechanical evidence that's on them, not you. By that same logic, you have to do your part to stick to the mechanical win.

Reads are subjective and everyone gets them wrong, that's sort of mafia. But mechanics are rigid so getting them is the most important part of the game. If there's ever a mechanical win, go for it, don't back out because you assume someone else will game throw next day.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Tony not trying to rag on you ~too much but I will say that in mafia you can't always control everyone's reads, for example epi here tinfoiling was beyond your control. If he was going to lynch you despite being cleared, you can't control that, so it's not something you should be worrying about here. Your original plan was good, but you have got to stick to that in future games. If someone is going to tunnel you and gamethrow despite mechanical evidence that's on them, not you. By that same logic, you have to do your part to stick to the mechanical win.

Reads are subjective and everyone gets them wrong, that's sort of mafia. But mechanics are rigid so getting them is the most important part of the game. If there's ever a mechanical win, go for it, don't back out because you assume someone else will game throw next day.

I think you're right Dusk and I'll take this as a learning opportunity. I'll note that the way this played out also was a mechanical win, but it wasn't as clean as my original option. I just overthought it. Bad!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Thanks for the game [mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention]. It's a jarring return to the kind of mechanical game construction I haven't seen as much since my time on RYM and a few games on HCR. I knew Tony was a major threat here because of his background. Us no-claim-accustomed Cindy Kates are in a tough place adapting to this kind of game, and I'm glad you gave us something to chip off the rust Nanook.

[Duskfall]

Tony not trying to rag on you ~too much but I will say that in mafia you can't always control everyone's reads, for example epi here tinfoiling was beyond your control. If he was going to lynch you despite being cleared, you can't control that, so it's not something you should be worrying about here. Your original plan was good, but you have got to stick to that in future games. If someone is going to tunnel you and gamethrow despite mechanical evidence that's on them, not you. By that same logic, you have to do your part to stick to the mechanical win.

Reads are subjective and everyone gets them wrong, that's sort of mafia. But mechanics are rigid so getting them is the most important part of the game. If there's ever a mechanical win, go for it, don't back out because you assume someone else will game throw next day.

I think you're right Dusk and I'll take this as a learning opportunity. I'll note that the way this played out also was a mechanical win, but it wasn't as clean as my original option. I just overthought it. Bad!

True true lmao

[dunya]

yeah this was a really fun game [mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention] and i'm excited for your next hosting.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Thanks guys, I’m glad you enjoyed the game!!

[TonyStarkPrime]

Great game Nanook. I've now been beaten by LC in F3/F4 in two Nanook games in a row.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Honestly going into f4 I thought it for sure was a town win. LC did a great job keeping LC on side.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Whoops, I meant LC did a great job keeping Epi on side. My poll joke crept in apparently!

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

By the way tommy you got probably the worst thing this game, even the vanillas were either scum or got picked as a lover, you’re welcome

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I guess this makes DS and I 2-0 as teammates.

[Duskfall]

By the way tommy you got probably the worst thing this game, even the vanillas were either scum or got picked as a lover, you’re welcome

You suck

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This game is also a nice study in balancing mechanisms that many Cindy Kates aren't accustomed to. Given the style of games that have most-often been played here, 8 vs. 3 is never fair. With that in mind, I understand Epignosis's doubts about that, for instance.

But I think the balance here was quite reasonable. In a game of this build, the ratios must inherently tighten because mechanical clearances abound. This is similar to what the folks on HCR know best -- their ratios tend toward this tighter formation as well.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm also super pleased with the way our first two Racket games have gone.

[juliets]

[mention]Long Con[/mention] you remain one of the most dangerous players in my world. Been that way for what, 10 years maybe?

Congrats to the Apocalyptic Naysayers!

[Long Con]

@Long Con you remain one of the most dangerous players in my world. Been that way for what, 10 years maybe?

Congrats to the Apocalyptic Naysayers!

Thanks, Jules. I do have my moments, now and then.

[leetic]

Wow, I was right on two of the three mafia on D1 and took down the other one with my role. Too bad nobody listened to me...

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hall of Fame updated.

[Epignosis]

God fucking damn it Epi the evidence was all there and you just fucking ignored it. This could have been an easy win but you refused to think for a second. Grrrrrrr


Anyway everyone bow down to my Jaydar

I nailed both remaining mafia before I died, and Tony had proof LC was lying, but no Epi's ego is too big to reevaluate or consider a dead townie's perspective.

I feel bad for Tony having seen all this through neighbor chat too.

For someone so acutely concerned with how words may cause offense or negatively influence someone's mental state, you sure don't seem to mind dishing out some derogation when it suits you.

Bro you had the role pm to resolve the 1v1, what was the logic in voting tony??

The role PM I got had a title that wasn't on the album and the wording of the role PM looked phony to me, as though a player hastily wrote it and not the host. I compared the wording the Mac's role description which contained a reference to the song title and the wording of the role PM I got looked forged. Eventually Nanook did correct the song title, but I was still not convinced it was real. There were other scenarios I was entertaining too.

One reason I said several days ago that I don't like "mechanical" clears is because I (as a host myself) am fond of incorporating elements to keep players from being 100% sure sometimes. In turn that has made me increasingly mistrustful of things like that role PM.

And I don't know if it was mentioned (hell, maybe I mentioned it) that I had BTSC with Long Con during that last phase, and he (eagerly, I'm sure) helped me buy into these ideas.

My mind may not always function the same way as everyone else's when it comes to Mafia. Sometimes that works in my favor and sometimes it doesn't, but I won't apologize for that, and I certainly don't believe my intelligence should be insulted over a game on the Internet, but I wanted to squash any notion that this was an attempt on my part to throw the game. I don't do that.

I am sorry I did not get you the victory. I can only do better next time.

Thanks for the experience, Nanook.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

(I originally sent you Star as the role title by accident, that was Jay’s role not LC’s. But, uh, it is a song on the album, and it flipped as Jay’s role name already.)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I totally get it, Epi. It may not be easy to see for everyone especially from different game cultures, but this is different. There is a clash of philosophy at the core of how one may interpret mechanical data. We know how much bullshitting we have seen here over the years with mechanics, and how they can be used to obfuscate reality. So when they’re closer to an objective reflection of the game, it isn’t obvious unless you have been there before.

Games with very tight alignment ratios must necessarily be heavily mechanical in design, or they cannot be balanced. 8 vs. 3 only works if some information really is 100% solid. That’s just the lesson going forward. Epi isn’t alone here either — LC and I could have easily failed in designing this gambit. Hell, maybe we DID fail, and that can be attributed to our relative inexperience too.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Another interesting bit from this game:

LC and I had no BTSC on Day 2 or Night 2. We had to separately submit N2 kills, and if they didn't match Nanook randomized.

I sent a kill on Tony. I figured he was the rolecop thing and wanted it gone. I also wanted to try to egg nutella into thinking Epi and I are the team and maybe snag a quickhammer on Epi.

LC sent a kill on nutella, which is what ended up happening. Obviously it worked out. I wonder how the game changes if that randomizes differently.

[Long Con]

I totally get it, Epi. It may not be easy to see for everyone especially from different game cultures, but this is different. There is a clash of philosophy at the core of how one may interpret mechanical data. We know how much bullshitting we have seen here over the years with mechanics, and how they can be used to obfuscate reality. So when they’re closer to an objective reflection of the game, it isn’t obvious unless you have been there before.

Games with very tight alignment ratios must necessarily be heavily mechanical in design, or they cannot be balanced. 8 vs. 3 only works if some information really is 100% solid. That’s just the lesson going forward. Epi isn’t alone here either — LC and I could have easily failed in designing this gambit. Hell, maybe we DID fail, and that can be attributed to our relative inexperience too.

I should have been the one to come forward with the plan that Tony did. I predicted it in our chat, and I should have taken it a step further than just knowing it was going to happen.

[DS.]

YALL GOT SO FUCKIN LUCKYYYY

[JaggedJimmyJay]

SHO DID

[DS.]

Well y'all also

But I meant town on accidentally sniping me lmfao

[Long Con]

Well y'all also

But I meant town on accidentally sniping me lmfao

[MacDougall]

This one's on me

[Long Con]

This one's on me

Well, you were one vote away from the hammer anyway. Likely didn't change the game.

[MacDougall]

This one's on me

Well, you were one vote away from the hammer anyway. Likely didn't change the game.

Oh was I.

Still on me for not doing better. No way I should have been suspected here lol. I should have towned better.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I totally get it, Epi. It may not be easy to see for everyone especially from different game cultures, but this is different. There is a clash of philosophy at the core of how one may interpret mechanical data. We know how much bullshitting we have seen here over the years with mechanics, and how they can be used to obfuscate reality. So when they’re closer to an objective reflection of the game, it isn’t obvious unless you have been there before.

Games with very tight alignment ratios must necessarily be heavily mechanical in design, or they cannot be balanced. 8 vs. 3 only works if some information really is 100% solid. That’s just the lesson going forward. Epi isn’t alone here either — LC and I could have easily failed in designing this gambit. Hell, maybe we DID fail, and that can be attributed to our relative inexperience too.

I should have been the one to come forward with the plan that Tony did. I predicted it in our chat, and I should have taken it a step further than just knowing it was going to happen.

then I would have been the one to stick with the plan hoping that you wouldn't go along with it