The Syndicate

aapje wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

aapje wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

aapje wrote:Looks like maybe I was wrong about him

Did you kill him so you wouldn't have to keep trying to get him lynched?

Nope, I was not involved in his death? Were you?

No. Do you think lorab was?

Interesting thought. If LR was bad I can see her wanting to keep Rico around in case the TH stuff doesn't work out. If their earlier back and forth is anything to go by people wouldn't touch their discussion with a 10 ft pole. Therefore I am leaning no.

I'm in agreement here. But at the same time, Rico wasn't going after her anymore either was he? Would she have reason to have killed him?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I get a sense of stagnation today. Unlike many days before today, (most) players are not committing to reads or votes today. This is likely to end badly.

Could be because the talkative players keep getting killed. Rez Jay and I'm sure that stagnation will change.

Never mind, it don't know how I missed the giant green announcement. Ugh, I don't like him being off the poll, but that's fine... I think he shou,die a serious contender for the next lynch.

Linki: I just saw it

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Boomslang/birdwithteeth is out of the question though Spacedaisy.

Oh is he off the poll?

Scotty wrote:

aapje wrote:Since the last recruitment opportunity for the baddies is out of the way all unrecruited player will either stay that way or they will be recruited by one of the baddie teams. So I suggest everyone playing the neutral game to channel their inner civvie

Do you think the hosts would notify us if the baddie teams in fact recruited? Because based on BR's last post, it sure seemed like no one was biting.

I'm currently involved in setting up wedding stuff for my aunt, with events all over this week. Tis why I am not around as much

looking at Wilgy and Synonym interactions and voting patterns might be a good way to start weeding through who might be bad. Especially considering Wilgy's pattern. On phone right now, but he mentioned in one of his last posts to "lynch SVS, llama, possibly Tranq and bea"

To "lynch" someone as opposed to just "suspect" someone is a strong choice of words. He had to have gotten info from his role for at least one or some of those players.

I like this post too, you may be changing my mind about you Scotty.

I would say based on Wilgy and last night's events that my top choices for a vote would be boomslang, llama, tranq or bea. At the moment anyway.

DharmaHelper wrote:I wonder who is bad.

Who do you think is bad?

aapje wrote:Since the last recruitment opportunity for the baddies is out of the way all unrecruited player will either stay that way or they will be recruited by one of the baddie teams. So I suggest everyone playing the neutral game to channel their inner civvie

I don't understand, was the highlighted supposed to be baddie?

aapje wrote:Well so much for Rico

That second Ahriman kill for DH just doesn't make sense at all. I highly doubt he would want to take out DH.

This. I can't see Ahriman trying to kill DH, which is what makes me feel suspicious of Boomslang.

LoRab wrote:One of these things is not like the others:

Roxy wrote:DH - that only says it has been restarted not that we went back to the beginning off the previous night. No where is it stated for you to NOT to use your ability again.Do you think the baddies will not send in a kill target? Do you think everyone else is not submitting night their night action? Do you think it will all remain what it was going to be before the restart? Do you think it would be double targeting if they repeat actions?

Roxy wrote:Also yes isubmitted another night action - didn't you?

Roxy wrote:Oh well I changed mine bc it was a new night.

Roxy wrote:

nutella wrote:Roxy I think you are just plain wrong. It is still night 9. It is not a separate night, although actions have to be re-sent. They can be the same target as they were originally.

Yeah you already said this before and like before I just don't care - I am entitled to my own opinion.
I was told I could not use my power

I also like this post. I feel like Rox is being all kinds of weird over the night 9 stuff.

aapje wrote:People who I am suspicious of:
Boomslang: His last post 5(!) days ago pinged me and it seems I am not alone in that, seeing as Ahriman tried to kill him.
llama: SD made an interesting case on him here. Since then Wilgy has mentioned him in one of his last posts as someone to look into.
Roxy: She sounded frustrated at DH. At this point in the game I expect that the baddies will be a bit annoyed with his knack of survival so I wonder if that was the cause.

People who largely have been missing lately:
Bass
Boomslang
Tranq
Come out and play

I like this post. I'm thinking the two Ahriman kills looks really bad for Boomslang personally.

I'm paying attention, not paying attention. Autocorrect... auto incorrect

DharmaHelper wrote:Who do I know that hasn't been paying attention at all?

If you are referring to me, I think it should be clear I wouldn't target you. Despite some stupid things I've said, I am actually passing attention.

If you referring to someone else you will have to be clear who you mean.

nutella wrote:Maybe she submitted her changed action and was then told it didn't go through? But that would just mean she was blocked or something. I think she is going to need to elaborate on what she is talking about here.

If she meant she was blocked why wouldn't she simply say that?

Looked over the roles and this is what I came up with:

Warden, which TH mentioned. My question is regarding the way this role works, absorbs a power? What does this mean? He has different position that steals a power, so they are obviously two different things.

Other thoughts:
Jilted lover in position 4 has a coupler effect with ?

Highborn assassin has a NK immunity in position 4, but that doesn't explain why there were two kill attempts by Ahriman, only might explain why some of these people may have survived.

The Immortal in position 4 chooses three people that nothing can happened at night. Again explains why some of these kills failed, but not some of the other weirdness.

Turnip Head wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:omelette au rip Rico. I don't think Ahriman is a civvie with the way he has played his role.

But he literally is. He's a civ recruiter. Clearly one who makes questionable decisions but I can't imagine him somehow being bad.

That should have been in satiric silver.

Two Ahriman kills makes me think the Warden absorbed his power.

Apologies, I just got to this. I'm quoting and responding as I go. So you were not serious about Ahriman I see. Interesting theory, I'll have to go look over the roles I think.

Roxy wrote:

nutella wrote:Roxy I think you are just plain wrong. It is still night 9. It is not a separate night, although actions have to be re-sent. They can be the same target as they were originally.

Yeah you already said this before and like before I just don't care - I am entitled to my own opinion.
I was told I could not use my power

This makes zero sense. No one else experienced being told they couldn't use their power. What are you up to?

nutella wrote:Why the heck would Ahriman try to kill DH what rock is he living under?

Bye again Rico.

Either it is someone not paying attention, like at all, or it wasn't Ahriman that did it. There were two attempted Ahriman kills last night, why?

Turnip Head wrote:omelette au rip Rico. I don't think Ahriman is a civvie with the way he has played his role.

Ahriman is a team leader, there is no way he would not be a civ.

Yes?

I apologize for missing the vote yesterday. I was reading, keeping up and everything. Just for some reason I believed I had another day to poll end. I honestly don't know how I managed that.

For what it is worth, bwt did apparently change his vote sometime in the last ten or fifteen minutes, because his vote registered as being the last one on syn even though I was the last one who actually said I was voting for syn. It really confused me at first. Apparently he changed his vote and then changed it back. I don't really get why though. Or why he waited until after the vote was over to say so.

Rico, I'm sorry if your found my last line insulting it wasn't intended as such. All I meant by it was most people work first shift and then fit their mafia in sometime when I am stuck working second shift. I am able to fit in mafia before or on breaks, it limits the amount of time I have. It was not meant to pass judgement on anyone else and their use of their time.

I voted position 4

Oh, I almost forgot, you took my Nutella back and forth out of context. I said her attitude came across relive her baddie playstyle than civ. she replied that it was because of the neutral factor. She was saying it affected how she played. As in she isn't as cautious as she would have been if it were just straight up civ, where she tends to be more blends seeming because she flip flops a lot, is very unsure of herself. Because of her claiming neutral alignment she is saying there is not as much at stake for her so it isn't such a urgent need for caution for her, she can pursue suspicions freely. The point is not that she was saying it is more like LMS, just that the neutral affiliation she found herself in to be affecting how she was playing.

Nothing at all like Canuck's early assertions that this is a LMS game and everyone should see it like that and not like the normal civ vs baddie format. Which I do disagree with.

Player	Recruit odds	Mafia odds - Ubzekistan	Mafia odds - Azurenka
Spacedaisy	Could be?	Unsure	Unsure

ISO:

Spoiler: show

D0 - finds Caelia/Ahriman civ aligned, but with grey areas; Terras followers def neutral
D1 - stance on civ-bad mentality, eyeballs those painting it as LMS
D1 - dislikes voting low contributers angle
D1 - doesn't think either Golden or Epig are bad, dislikes people nominating recruit pref
D1 - suspects BWTfor pedalling on Golden, based on JJJ's case
D1 - reiteration of anti-LMS stance, doesn't like TH's post (or MP, Tim, Rox)
D1 - votes Canuck for her neutrality stance
D2 - approves of Golden's rogue move
D2 - big post: disses complaints on Golden, MP recruiting debate, outcry at Typh's death
D2 - votes Bass for wanting to deflect attention
D3 - case on unfurl, votes her
D3 - wary on nutella, but for "switch meta" reasons; feels better afterwards
D3 - not warmed up by unfurl's rebuttals, but hopes for more input
D3 - reads rey and SVS sincere in Golden hunt, votes DH for stirring the pot
D4 - catch-up, votes Sorsha for suggesting a civ vigi pushed Epig's kill
D4 - still wary of unfurl's attitude, but swayed by others' dismissal of her case
D4 - surprised llama is suspected, doesn't find Boom suspicious, likes Scotty and Wilgy
D4 - switches to DH, because of a Sorsha rebuttal reading genuine
D4 - doesn't see Bubbles suspicious for indecisiveness
D5 - dislikes Bubbles' reaction to the switch, finds her trying to act innocent, votes TB
D5 - finds Wilgy's defense of Bubbles curious (in content and amount)
D6 - case on Llama, votes him
D8 - doesn't like Scotty's latest posts, doesn't reason
D8 - wouldn't have voted Wilgy
D8 - considers SVS's vote (due to Wilgy's case)
D8 - votes Syn, doesn't like BWT voters

Notable moodswings:
-- picks on Canuck, but nut Nutella
-- activity gone cold

Meta notes: would recruit in balanced way

Really unsure about her, her activity has gone real cold, with only moments of jumping on a case or stance and keeping pressure on that for the entire Day. Neither this, nor her previous "big posts", make me comfortable, because she really has an unlucky meta this past year of doing that as a blendy, but focused baddie (Death Note, Guess Who). Overall, if people are looking into under-the-radar players, I think they should read and make up their mind about SD in particular.

I think both her and LoRab's "playing for the civ cause" angle and demands are a bit twitchy, I think her big stance to treat this as a "civ vs bad" only refers to how the view will look in the end of the game, yet she eyeballed (and even voted) players like Canuck or timmer for their neutrality credo. Later on, she understands, instead, nutella's choice of keeping the distance. She wobbled re: Sorsha as well, from calling her "civ vigi killed Epi" ideas far-fetched to taking her off the hook for a one-liner rebuttal to SVS sounding genuine. Similarly, she never criticises Bubbles for her indecisiveness, but the next Day I think she was among the first to call her lynch reaction off.There is a part of that that makes me wonder if Bubbles wasn't her teammate and she had to readjust real quick to the lynch switch and to buss TB.

D8, considers voting SVS why? Voted Syn why? Mirrored Wilgy reluctance why?

Idk, these are kinda real pinges and not being able to give a verdict on her gameplay sort of unsettles me. Her sink in activity could be a recruited moodswing or a desire to stay low as unrecruited.

First of all, my gameplay is pretty much the same regardless, people just remember me fooling them in Death Note. In Guess Who I died like Day 2 or 3 when I was lynched. oh yeah, I really flew under the radar then. I did not find bubbles indecisiveness weird, I did find her reaction after her lynch save to be very weird. That is all there is to that, I'm not her teammate and I wasn't bussing her. I truly found her suspicious. I have reasons for not explaining my suspicions about Scotty. I think anyone with a civ minded outlook would understand why without me explaining what he said that was so suspicious. my activity has gone quieter because I have had a busier schedule of late, that's all. Working more second shifts which is when most of the rest of you guys are at home, playing mafia.

I voted for Syn, I don't trust some of those BWT voters, and if BWT is Uz, he won't die anyway.

DharmaHelper wrote:Well a Syn vote is off the table, so.

Did I miss why?

Lol, I'm an idiot. I had read it before too, I just forgot. Well good, lol

Yes. I would say yes.

Wait for what?

I think aapje is the one making sense here, and I think it gives creedance to the idea that Bubbles was recruited by Uz later, which would line up with llama's change in how he treated her if he is on that team, which I still believe he is.

I'm considering a vote for SVS myself. Despite not trusting llama, I think more solid evidence after the wilgy lynch points to SVS.

Scotty wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:Scotty I don't like your current posts.

I apologize for not voting. I would NOT have voted for Wilgy though. That lynch train stunk from the start.

I am considering voting for one of the following (in no particular order):
TH
Scotty
Synonym

Thoughts folks?

How oddly non-specific. Care to comment on which ones?

Also, we share the same suspicion of TH and Syn, so...uh...is it my tone or something you don't like?

Spacedaisy wrote:Registering a vote for Llama

Since this was your last post...4 days ago...what happened to this case from you? Is Llama no longer a suspect? And if not, why?

No, I do not care to comment.

I still suspect llama. I would be comfortable adding him to that list.

I should clarify, the thread was locked so I COULDN'T vote... *grumblegrumble*

Scotty I don't like your current posts.

I apologize for not voting. I would NOT have voted for Wilgy though. That lynch train stunk from the start.

I am considering voting for one of the following (in no particular order):
TH
Scotty
Synonym

Thoughts folks?

Ok, I don't know why no one is talking about this, but I will. Llama, the Bubbles lynch flip makes you look incredibly bad. You came out of the gate on Bubbles for something ridiculous. And yet when it came down to her lynch you didn't vote for her. Not only did you not vote for her but you made two separate posts talking about how Uzbarg would have no reason not to use his power, one time saying that we learn zero information from the switch. The last time you said anything negative about Bubbles was in Night 4 and all it said was everything bubbles said read insincere to you. That is it. So you go from being after her hard at the start and then you barely say anything about her lynch? Then after her flip you come out yelling about how you knew it and you were right, etc. taking credit for a lynch you played absolutely no part in at all. Your only explanation about why you didn't vote for her was to say you didn't think your vote would matter so you put your vote somewhere else. And if that was why you were doing it, why wouldn't you say that in your vote. Why wouldn't you express your approval of the lynch train that was forming? Instead you tried to convince people who were waffling to vote for DH instead. I think you are Uz and you recruited Bubbles. I think today's dog and pony show about looking for Bubbles teammates is your way to hopefully direct attention anywhere but you.

I voted 1. I am curious why no one is going for 3?

Turnip Head wrote:So you don't think it's at all possible that Uzbekistan switched the lynch just to fuck with us? It had to be saving a teammate?

Yes I think it is possible. I just don't think that is the case when you take Bubbles response into account. Looking at both together makes me feel confident about bubbles being on that team.

Unfurl had some suspicion on her, they may have suspected her of being recruited by another team. Unfurl being the target has no bearing for me on whether or not I suspect Bubbles.

Ok Wilgy, here is my response to this: It's not specific words,it's the whole thing. When someone is confused about why they survived, it is normal to say, "I don't know why I survived, kind of confused" or something of that nature. But Bubbles was like, "I don't know what happened! I'm so confused. I'm sending a message to the hosts," etc. It went on for a long paragraph. That is my definition of overkill/exaggeration. It's not hard to use the same words you normally would. The response was one of exaggerated innocence in my eyes.

As to the emotional investment thing, I never commented on it because I have no opinion of it. I think emotional investment looks different for different people, I don't doubt Bubbles emotional investment. Additionally, I never had a problem with her waffling about Golden and I said as much.

The entirety of my suspicion of her is because her response to the lynch switch feels like it is not genuine. I believe it was probably Uzzie who switched the lynch so the fact that her response to it feels so off to me makes me believe she is on that team. I am comfortable leaving my vote where it is.

What I find interesting is how strongly you came out swinging in her defense. That's probably the longest post I've seen from you all game.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Devin the Omniscient wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

Devin the Omniscient wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Or the lynch was switched to make us lynch Bubbles again

If that's the case, why not just let her be lynched the first time?? I'm with SD on this one.

Because if you have a lynch switch power, why not use it?

I guess.

I think it's clear cut honestly -- that lynch switch gets used regardless of Bubbles' alignment. If she's bad, it delays her death. If she's not on the team responsible for the switch, then it ensures someone else dies instead AND Bubbles remains a highly likely lynch after that. Two for the price of one.

I'll repeat here that I suspect get not only because the lynch for switched but because her response to it seemed exaggerated. I would expect her to be all, "I don't know why" but now a paragraph of her going on about how she is so confused and she doesn't know what happened and she em pmed the hosts, etc. It is overkill. It don't feel like a natural civilian response. I think She knows why the lynch got switched, in fact I think it was her teammate that did it.

Her response to the lynch switch is what makes me feel this is not the case. It was an exaggerated innocent, "I don't know what happened" response that didn't feel genuine to me.

nutella wrote:I'm not really following the Rico/Lorab ping-pong match. They've had this same back-and-forth going just between the two of them for a couple days now but it appears that everyone else is pretty much ignoring it I'm going to stay out of it until further notice/unless something sways me to one side or the other.

I'm pretty comfortable with a Bubbles vote today. I was hesitant at first because of her meta/history of being lynched as a civ, but the lynch switch would fit with being on a baddie team (both Ubzargan's and Azura's Position 2 abilities could have caused the result) -- there are other possible explanations for sure, but combining that reason with her unsatisfactory posts, I'm inclined to think she's likely bad. Placing my vote on Bubbles.

I'd also be down to lynch DP or Devin. And I'm still suspicious of DH, but he said he had a big case brewing and I am VERY much looking forward to seeing that.

I agree with all of these sentiments. Bubbles response to the lynch read to me like someone trying to act innocent. Most likely reason the lynch was switched was to save her. I'm voting bubbles,

I voted position 4

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:I am not feeling the bubbles lynch, she is usually a low posting player, I haven't played with her that much but I don't see the inconsistency that others are claiming. That's why I went with DH instead.

I'm not super comfortable lynching Bubbles either, but you don't think she was inconsistent in her dealings with Golden?

Yep, I can see how she went back and forth. However, it looks more to me like someone who felt indecisive about it, first one way then another. If she were bad she would do either one or the other I would ink. To me she reads like normal Bubbles, what little I know anyway. you looked at Sorsha's posts and said you didn't have trouble seeing a neutral/civ mind set in it, try looking at Bubbles with the same detachment and tell me if you don't find the same with her posts?

Sorsha wrote:SVS- if I suspected you I wouldn't dance around naming you. You used to be really good at reading me but your not here....

This post reads genuine to me. This may seem silly, but when I am civ and someone is going after me that should be able to read me well, up it makes me all kinds of nervous. This is the vibe I got from this post. Makes me think Sorsha might not be bad. I'm moving my vote off of her and onto DH. I didn't like the part you played in the golden saga, and I don't care for your thoroughly unhelpful play style. You have pretty much ignored me too, which hurts my feelings so there. (I'm kidding about the last part, but I am still voting for you for the other reasons listed.)

Registering a vote for DH

I am not feeling the bubbles lynch, she is usually a low posting player, I haven't played with her that much but I don't see the inconsistency that others are claiming. That's why I went with DH instead.

So I was reading along, catching up, and this post catches my eye and sets off alarm bells:

Sorsha wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Sorsha wrote:Thats a good question Wilgy.. was it a frame or was it the result of a redirect (Ahriman), target switch (Master of Ancient Arts), switching three roles powers (Chaos Dancer) or a repel of kill to the Magnetarch?

Do you think Golden was framed Wigly? And why did you vote for me? Also, what are your thoughts on the day ending early and no night?

Also, good dance around my question here, I feel like you slipped though. If Epig's death was simply a frame, I think you would be pursuing those who were going after him. I also think you wouldn't have voted Tiny when the votes were so stacked on Golden. You rose the question of if it could be a redirect. The only peole that can answer that question are the people that cast the kill and the person who caused the redirect. Which one are you Sorsha?

Like I said before, I'm not sure that he was framed. There are a few roles with powers that could have led to epis death and those so adamant that golden killed epi didn't seem to be talking about/ taking those into consideration. Unless I missed it.

A player says he will kill another player the first NK he gets his hands on and the next night that player is killed and you don't think someone was framing him? I get there are potential manipulations, but why would a civ want to frame someone? I think we have all pretty much agreed that no one seemed to think the back and forth between Golden and Epi was anything more than neutral on neutral, so why would you think Ahriman would redirect a kill onto Epi? No, thi post read like someone who wanted people to keep moving along because they're hitting too close to home.

Then I read on and saw Scotty's case, and previously had seen Wilgy's case... I have to say Sorsha, you are not looking good to me right now.

I am Registering a vote for Sorsha

Unfurl, while I wouldn't go so far as to say I trust you, I don't feel as strongly about you, based primarily on the fact people who have played more with you than I have are dismissing my suspicions. But frankly the biggest concern to me is that your attitude in this game seems so vastly different to me than I recall from the few games I have played with you before. I would never have characterized you as snarky or dismissive that I can recall before this. You have always eked very nice. I understand language barrier at times and so forth, but I have just felt like you had a different attitude this game.it is the big thing keeping you on my list right now. But you are not in danger of getting a vote for me immediately, I want to try to keep my mind open.

DH, you ignored me. You have played a very weird game so far that doesn't sit well with me at all. I can relate to how Nutella feels about you, as well as others.

Someone suspected llama and it surprised me, any other opinions on llama at the moment? I have found him to be pretty reasonable in my mind this game. I'm worried there is something wrong with me!

MM, where are you? Will you come join in the fun if I offer you a beer? don't make me vote for you to pull you out of the woodwork my friend. It would make me sad.

Boomslang, I had angry orchard for the first time tonight. I really enjoyed it. Just thought I would share. my only thing about all this Jay/Golden/Boo,slang stuff is that Golden was clear he didn't know Epi was bad, he didn't want to end up on a tea with him though or didn't think there was a good chance of it. So the case loses its logic when you remove that one assumption. But I don't think it makes you bad.

Jay, see my above regarding Boomslang. He could be bad, but I don't think your disagreement with him right now proves anything. You seem to be getting very nit picky in your arguments, is this the norm for you? I've only played one game with you and my concern is that I know of your reputation, you would be considered a prize recruit.

I could be wrong, but I feel pretty confident in my ability to read MP, and I believe he is either civ or unrecruited. Just my two cents for those gunning for him. Again, could be wrong because no one is perfect, but I don't think he is bad from what I am seeing. Yep he went crazy the other night, I can think of a couple reasons he would, neither of which includes him being bad. He is a better baddie tha to play like that tbqh.

Nutella, I just can't handle confident Nutella. I find it all kinds of scary, but it doesn't go away. I'm still feeling good vibes from you and it scares me.

I like Scotty, I have not found Scotty to seem bad, but I barely know the guy and probably haven't paid enough attention to him. The same goes for Dr.Wilgy, though I have paid him more attention.

More thoughts tomorrow perhaps. Night thread!

I have to leave for work shortly and likely won't get a chance to check back in before the poll closes. So I am looking at the Golden uproar and I still believe Golden is telling to the truth. So that leaves me believing that someone who is bad wants to keep discussion on him rather than baddie hunt. Looking at SVS, I think she is sincere, but wrong. I think she has a major case of tunnel vision. But I don't think that makes her bad.

Looking at Rey, I think the same sort of thing, he seems sincere. I was back and forth until his self vote, now I think he is truly frustrated and really believes his suspicion. I disagree with him, but I won't be voting him either.

The person I am looking at is DH. He has stayed just close enough to the edge of the fray to not draw too much attention to himself. Enough to keep himself from being too under the radar, and too civ looking, but not enough to get himself implicated in anything. I believe he is stirring the pot and letting the passionate players do the work for him. As I have read his posts he keeps saying things about golden not answering questions when even I can clearly see golden did. He is looking really bad to me.

Registering a vote for DH.

Two things unfurl.

1. I will keep this in mind about you regarding contradictions. I have limited knowledge of your game play,we've only played a handful of games together I believe. I will freely admit to not feeling like I read you well for this reason.

2. You keep going on about how you are just you, it's how you play but then you turn around with snarky jokes about other people's suspicions. Well, I play the way I play. Making fun of the fact I find contradictions suspect doesn't make me feel good about you. In fact it grates me really wrong and kind of pisses me off. Make fun all you want, most people do find them suspicious.

I'm leaving my vote where it is for now, but I'm open to hearing input from people who have played more with unfurl than I have. I would prefer to get a baddie than a neutral personally. They aren't bad lynches but they aren't good ones either.