The Syndicate

I'm somewhat struggling to find wolves

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:43 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:37 pm Here is my case on Creature.

All of Creature's posts so far can be divided into one of three categories: useless fluff, attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons, and "flame fanning".

Category 1: Useless Fluff
Spoiler: show

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:22 pm Why does the game always start when I'm the most low energy?

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:32 pm Wow this got intense so quick

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:33 pm Is this game by any chance bastard? I didn't check before joining

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:11 pmWho is Neeko?

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:12 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:11 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:49 pm Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games
I think you are.
I'm not mafia and this makes your push on me even more annoying
These posts go beyond the usual RVS horsing around (although we are well out of RVS now). These are posts that show a clear lack of interest in the progression of the game. His questions are flat, shallow, and in many cases could have been easily answered by glancing at the OP. He is more interested in looking like he is around and engaging with the game than actually being around and engaging with the game. He had a ripe opportunity to engage with me about my push on him, and he responded by going "I'm not mafia, I'm annoyed now, go away". I don't get the sense that he cares whether or not I am town misreading him or scum trying to get him killed, and this is especially concerning because in my last scum game I tried to get him killed early on.

I believe him when he says he is low energy. Take note that being low energy and unable to meaningfully engage with the game is a classic Creature scumtell.

Category 2: Attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons

Spoiler: show
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:51 pm I want the guilty on nutella to be legit

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:34 pm Is soup kill a thing?

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:49 pm Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:06 pm Wait I think the existence of a mafia captain should almost clear me from ever being picked as mafia this game

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:07 pm Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:15 pm If I was mafia captain I would choose players tbh even if it is not mechanically optimal. I would much rather have an enjoyable team to play with.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:15 pm I know I'd never be picked by the mafia captain if they chose players over roles

Creature makes an excessive number of posts attempting to insinuate that he is town, or in some way get people to "angleshoot" him as being town due to his lack of knowledge about the game mechanics or the inner workings of the mafia ("is there a soup kill?"). But a town Creature who genuinely wanted to know would just check the OP; asking in thread serves no purpose except to try to get people to falsely read him as town. He is aware that he struggles to gain the trust of the town when he is mafia, and he is cheaply attempting to earn this towncred through derptells and "townslips".

Take note that he is trying to convince the game repeatedly that the mafia captain chose players rather than roles. If he is town, he has no reason to believe that the mafia captain chose players over roles. I, personally, have reason to believe that the mafia captain chose roles. I think nutella is much townier than her scum self would be, and as I have argued, a town nutella implies a town Alexa. I know I am town, and I do not think a mafia captain who picked players would pass over both me and Alexa. So this attempt to convince the town - with no evidence whatsoever - that the mafia captain picked players reeks of agenda-pushing to me.

Finally, I want to highlight this line: "Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first." Nobody has accused him of being 3P. It comes completely out of the blue, and reads almost as though he is self-aware of his own scumminess and is trying to hang a lampshade of it. I don't think it's a line that would flow naturally from a townie's mouth.

Category 3: Flame Fanning
Spoiler: show
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:33 pm lol if nutella is salty alexa caught her n0

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:07 pm lol if the alexa/nutella w/w theory is right

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:18 pm
112 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:17 pm early take is that Seanzie is probably wolfing imo
Thought I was the only one seeing it

LinearPoint has been accused of fanning the flames. I think Creature is even more guilty of this sin. In his ISO of 19 posts (at the time I wrote this case), Creature utters provocative lines, egging on the suspicions of townies towards each other, three separate times. They are quoted in the spoilers above. Note that he first eggs on the "Alexa has a red check on nutella" narrative, then switches to "Alexa and nutella are wolves together". These narratives are contradictory. Creature does not have an opinion of his own; he just encourages whatever happens to be the prevailing opinion or thread sentiment at the time. This is strongly opportunistic, and this opportunism is exemplified even further by his agreement with 112 that Seanzie is wolfing. How is Seanzie being wolfy? Why has he not brought up this scumread on Seanzie before, if he thought he was the only one seeing it? In fact, if he thinks Seanzie is a wolf and fooling everyone except him, why would he keep quiet about it until someone else brings it up, at which point he eagerly jumps on the bandwagon? Answer: because he is nakedly taking advantage of 112's suspicion to push Seanzie.

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

-

Please vote Creature.
You have my sword.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Ender might be one for being this late

Guillotine wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:52 pm Wait hold on, this might be a multiball so…

No?

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:51 pm
alexa wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:25 pm ok uhh read through alison's stuff on creature

i think some of the things alison is casing creature for are like, not scumtells for him at all and more like "ok classically wolfy" things that don't make him a wolf/are stuff i've seen pretty consistently from pressure. so yeah, i don't agree but i won't put him in my towncore rn out of respect for her as i do believe she is a villager. i think the way she's framing/arguing the case is villagery for her, like the "i think a mafia captain picked roles, i don't think a mafia captain would pass over me and alexa" part. registers at least as mindmeldy because i felt a little bad seeing people say there was a captain, that i wasn't picked (even though i wouldn't have really wanted to mafia this game still), but then i saw it could be roles and it made me feel a bit better and yeah.

Town:
Alison
c4e5g3d5
falcon45ca
hollowkatt
ilario
TonyStarkPrime
Urist

~nutella probably

Mafia:
Sloonei (this is gut based on his opening)
LinearPoint
I've played with Creature a few times. I don't think this fits with his slanky town play. nutella has also testified that he is nothing like his town game.

Pretty sure this is no longer my slanky play

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:56 pm TBH has Creature played like more than three games with Alison

I think I played plenty. It's just that anyone who plays with me tend to wolfread me at first until they don't.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:58 pm I mean I think probably nutella is not town and is trying to get creature chopped and therefore we can’t trust what nutella says (?)

So nutella overreacted at alexa possibly catching her from a night action? Though, alexa later said her action makes nutella seem town

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:00 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:59 pm Mac's entrance is unimpressive. He remains firmly in my suspect pool.

@LinearPoint What is your opinion on my Creature case? You've been very absorbed with the alexa/nutella stuff. I'd like your view on other parts of the game.
you remain firmly inside my butthole

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:02 am Mac is spewed clear by the sheer number of people who don't realize he's even in this game

40% serious take

I think two players are more likely to be forcibly paired into one town slot than into one wolf slot so yeah

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:03 am
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:02 am Mac is spewed clear by the sheer number of people who don't realize he's even in this game

40% serious take
I think two players are more likely to be forcibly paired into one town slot than into one wolf slot so yeah

Or like mafia captain never picks that role

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:03 am
Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:27 pm I have a bad feeling the mafia captain just picked the boring role selection though.
Why? I would pick players and the best players there are. Players ein games not roles.

but mafia get to pick stronger roles if they choose to pick roles over players

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:09 am except for the point about his low energy.

Do I look low energy now?

Also I maintain being provocative is something I do as town to the feel over players' alignment based on their responses. Looks like unnecessary attention for me to do as wolf.

What the hell? I'm not flame fanning on Seanzie, I think they have wolf equity and I took 112's post as an opportunity to express my read on them.

Category 1: Fluff is normal for any player

Category 2: I genuinely didn't read the Various mechanics quote (because I missed it until then) and you can see why I started talking about a mafia captain straight after asking about the soup kill thing

Category 3: Seanzie is a read I have on my own, it's not fanning the flame

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:16 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:13 am Also I maintain being provocative is something I do as town to the feel over players' alignment based on their responses. Looks like unnecessary attention for me to do as wolf.
Except you can't furnish any receipts for actually getting info about people's alignment.

I don't need a solid thesis, I only need to hit the right players and any hint of where to go or not to go is helpful.

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:17 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:13 am Also I maintain being provocative is something I do as town to the feel over players' alignment based on their responses. Looks like unnecessary attention for me to do as wolf.
Mmm defense of “I do this as town” no bueno

It's just that the "fanning the flames" thing can just be town being provocative just like this case. I honestly felt the same about DrWilgy last game when they started asking me useless questions and bugging me into responding them which I thought was wolfy but in reality they were being provocative.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:17 am Is there a red on nutella too? I really did miss a lot.

alexa seems to have info on nutella's role that seems wolf-indicative for the latter but not conclusive.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:20 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:15 am What the hell? I'm not flame fanning on Seanzie, I think they have wolf equity and I took 112's post as an opportunity to express my read on them.
Why didn't you express that scumread before 112 came along? Why must someone else say Seanzie is scum first before you call him out? For that matter, what did Seanzie do that was scummy in the first place?

I like to express reads when I have someone to mindmeld with instead of just throwing them whenever I get them.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:20 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:19 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:16 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:13 am Also I maintain being provocative is something I do as town to the feel over players' alignment based on their responses. Looks like unnecessary attention for me to do as wolf.
Except you can't furnish any receipts for actually getting info about people's alignment.
I don't need a solid thesis, I only need to hit the right players and any hint of where to go or not to go is helpful.
What hints did you get?

I no longer think alexa has a reason to claim this info as wolf here. Maybe if I get less lazy I can look for more reactions.

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:23 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:18 am
ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:13 am 112 had a really spot on assessment of you that brought to words everything I was thinking about you, even if I’m misreading you and ur actually town I don’t think a scum would take this approach on you

C4 has a snarky critical vibe, doesn’t feel like they’re playing to be townread and the evaluations I’ve seen from him so far show a good depth of thought that i haven’t seen him replicate as scum yet outside of when he’s bussing. they had that one post we both liked as well

Creature is a hard one to explain. I just think he’s lhf bait, I think the way he’s handled your push is towny, he isn’t being appealy or anything and the way he’s assessed your push is towny. His insistence that he things he’s gonna be a universal tr by eod is towny since last time I saw him as a wolf he got outed and buried d1 as one of the best roles meanwhile everytime I’ve seen him town he’s been a universal tr. so I think that confidence is town for him

Alexa is too derpy and all over the place to be scum. The way she handled her claim was way too over eager and messy in a way that’s towny for specifically her.
How do you think Creature would handle this push by me if he was mafia? (Keeping in mind he has 6 teammates that could potentially coach him?)

I think the rest of your explanations are okay. 112's read is wrong, but you're just saying it's a mindmeld, so sure. I found myself agreeing with that evaluation of C4. I am townreading Alexa for different reasons but I don't think townreading her for her handling of her claim is unreasonable at all.
Some mixture of flailing and appealing like when he got cases by ladd

It was like me trying to explain I was trying a playstyle change but then I just didn't bother to post at the end of the day at fear town would see any further post I make as wolfy.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:24 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:22 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:20 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:15 am What the hell? I'm not flame fanning on Seanzie, I think they have wolf equity and I took 112's post as an opportunity to express my read on them.
Why didn't you express that scumread before 112 came along? Why must someone else say Seanzie is scum first before you call him out? For that matter, what did Seanzie do that was scummy in the first place?
I like to express reads when I have someone to mindmeld with instead of just throwing them whenever I get them.
So if nobody ever expressed suspicion on Seanzie, how long were you going to sit there letting him go about doing wolfy things without saying anything?

I don't know. Maybe I would have expressed it eventually, but 112 posting about Seanzie gave me the incentive to express it earlier.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:26 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:24 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:22 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:20 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:15 am What the hell? I'm not flame fanning on Seanzie, I think they have wolf equity and I took 112's post as an opportunity to express my read on them.
Why didn't you express that scumread before 112 came along? Why must someone else say Seanzie is scum first before you call him out? For that matter, what did Seanzie do that was scummy in the first place?
I like to express reads when I have someone to mindmeld with instead of just throwing them whenever I get them.
So if nobody ever expressed suspicion on Seanzie, how long were you going to sit there letting him go about doing wolfy things without saying anything?
I don't know. Maybe I would have expressed it eventually, but 112 posting about Seanzie gave me the incentive to express it earlier.

Also just had this feeling Seanzie's entry felt a lot different than last game and they were unsatisfying since then

I think I'm only staying up at 1:30 am to finish listening to a podcast

I was unproductive all day

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:30 am I think I'm only staying up at 1:30 am to finish listening to a podcast

At least it's good enough to keep me interested.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:32 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:30 am I think I'm only staying up at 1:30 am to finish listening to a podcast
At least it's good enough to keep me interested.

Damn I think I'm not paying attention enough

I'm at EnderWiggin and Seanzie as mafia

Am I missing something?

Phil and Gloria wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:34 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:28 am Mac if you tunnel LP I will townread you.
this reminds me of your wolf game we just lost tbh

Urist wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:35 am wait did someone claim cop or something?

It's pretty vague and I don't think we should push it further because of soup kill

Try to read nutella on your own

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:36 am
ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:34 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:31 am Can we just kill someone like guillotine d1 pls
Why aren’t you voting him then?
i forgot i had Sloonei in my gut pool of maf

Mafia:
Sloonei
LinearPoint
Paopon
Guillotine

that is probably 0/4 or 1/4 based on my early game accuracy but #yolo

I think only Sloonei and Paopan can be wolves here aorn

Is Scotty a good wolf?

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:40 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:38 am
alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:36 am
ilario wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:34 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:31 am Can we just kill someone like guillotine d1 pls
Why aren’t you voting him then?
i forgot i had Sloonei in my gut pool of maf

Mafia:
Sloonei
LinearPoint
Paopon
Guillotine

that is probably 0/4 or 1/4 based on my early game accuracy but #yolo
I think only Sloonei and Paopan can be wolves here aorn
why?

ftr i am least confident on guillo here but i think linear is probably a wolf

LinearPoint is at that limbo where I think their actions are more likely to come from town but lots of players are saying they're wolf and I'm afraid of being the wrong one here

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:42 am hey please answer this - have you played with Paopan before?

Is this directed to me?

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:42 am hey please answer this - have you played with Paopan before?

No, I don't even know who they are

Guess if I'm mafia captain choosing players over roles I'm very unlikely to pick Paopan here

I'll probably trust Alison and Mac on LinearPoint. Let's hope they didn't rand wolves together again.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:45 am Creature continues to just make weak excuses for his posts and saying "but i do this as town waaa" I literally don't get why anyone is townreading this

Let me repeat I just played with town creature and this is like night and day in post quality

Urist wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:47 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:45 am I'll probably trust Alison and Mac on LinearPoint. Let's hope they didn't rand wolves together again.
i think that one of them is mafia and the other is town. what you choose to do with that information is up to you.

If that's the case, then it's most likely Alison

Damn was I useless with college stuff today

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:54 am Paopan is the son of gavial and NotAnAxehole with all their features on steroids.

I thought it was their profile picture making them seem disturbing

@alexa

This is Paopan's only two games in this site:

viewtopic.php?t=2232
viewtopic.php?t=2248

Also clearly not Gavial

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:56 am @alexa

This is Paopan's only two games in this site:

viewtopic.php?t=2232
viewtopic.php?t=2248

Also clearly not Gavial

Host: Gavial

NotAnAxehole
DrWilgy
Ruri
MafiaMenace
falcon45ca
Jackofhearts2005
LinearPoint
Michelle
LimeCoke
Marmot
Paopan
MightyQ
Scotty
sig
MacDougall
Alexa
Son of Anarch

Host: Alison

sig
MacDougall
Lime Coke
Paopan
CRichard
Miss Carousel
DrWilgy
falcon45ca
Gavial
Porscha
MightyQ

alexa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:58 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:56 am @alexa

This is Paopan's only two games in this site:

viewtopic.php?t=2232
viewtopic.php?t=2248

Also clearly not Gavial
OK SO THEM MAKING WHATEVER POST THEY MADE MAKES 0 SENSE WHATSOEVER UNLESS THEYRE IN A SCUM CHAT TALKING ABOUT IT

THIS ONE: viewtopic.php?p=890859#p890859

LIKE HOW THE HECK DO YOU GET TO THIS IS YOURE NOT A WOLF AND ITS BEING DISCUSSED AND YOU DONT KNOW ME? it makes 0 sense whatsoever to me and this is a huge part of why

You played one game with them, no?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:58 am
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:56 am @alexa

This is Paopan's only two games in this site:

viewtopic.php?t=2232
viewtopic.php?t=2248

Also clearly not Gavial
TBH I thought it was a gav alt playing in his own game

and multiaccounting another

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:00 am I will say if I recruited I would pick Alexa but I also wouldn’t recruit

I would almost always have MacDougall on my wolfteam

Let's do drafties then:

TonyStarkPrime:
1. alexa
2. MacDougall
3.
4.
5.
6.

Creature:
1. MacDougall
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

[VOTE: Paopan] aubergine

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:04 am Alexa Alison dizzy mac creature and a sixth, probably like NAA or Guillo or Urist

Would try to be a bit less obvious with my wolf choices but maybe would probably have picked alexa too. Would rather have her on my wolfteam even if she gets caught easily than have her on the town team.

Oh right, Happy might've been a good choice to pick as wolf too

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:07 am But we should assume they chose roles (as they should have) until that point

Yeh. It was just a fun LAMIST exercise

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