GAME OF CHAMPIONS 2021 Endgame (town and 3p win)

[Urist]

alexa
c4
Creature
ender
falcon
hk
ilario
paopan
sabie
seanzie
urist

there are 0 wolves here

sloonei, nutella, Alison contains min 1 probably 2 wolves

linearpoint is outed mafia

at least one of these people are mafia

[Creature]

I'll probably trust Alison and Mac on LinearPoint. Let's hope they didn't rand wolves together again.

[nutella]

Creature continues to just make weak excuses for his posts and saying "but i do this as town waaa" I literally don't get why anyone is townreading this

Let me repeat I just played with town creature and this is like night and day in post quality

[Alison]

@Alison what are your concerns on mac rn?

We tend to vibe early and our pushes and thoughts make sense to each other when we are both town. That's not happening this game. That isn't a guarantee that he is scum, it has happened before as T/T, but it is concerning at least.

[EnderWiggin]

My towncore is Hollowkatt and EnderWiggin.

I bestow upon thee the duty of finding me 3 more town. They have to be mad kents tho.

That's a lot of responsibility guv

[Sloonei]

alexa
c4
Creature
ender
falcon
hk
ilario
paopan
sabie
seanzie
urist

there are 0 wolves here

sloonei, nutella, Alison contains min 1 probably 2 wolves

linearpoint is outed mafia

at least one of these people are mafia

[Creature]

Creature continues to just make weak excuses for his posts and saying "but i do this as town waaa" I literally don't get why anyone is townreading this

Let me repeat I just played with town creature and this is like night and day in post quality

[Guillotine]

there's a chance she is town it is not exactly a red check i won't know for sure until tomorrow or the next day

How will you know gor sure until tomorrow or next day?

You role-fishing?

She outed her role willingly, im seeking for further info.

[alexa]

hey please answer this - have you played with Paopan before?

this is for everyone

I need an answer

@112
@Alison
@Belzy
@BoKnows
@c4e5g3d5
@DrWilgy
@dyachei
@Dyslexicon
@EnderWiggin
@falcon45ca
@Guillotine
@hollowkatt
@ilario
@Justplayingitcool
@KZA
@LinearPoint
@Marmot
@Master Radishes
@NotAnAxehole
@nutella
@Phil and Gloria
@Porscha
@sabie12
@Seanzie
@sig
@Sloonei
@TonyStarkPrime
@Urist

THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND MAY 100% NAIL A SCUM, PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU'VE PLAYED WITH PAOPAN BEFORE

[Urist]

I'll probably trust Alison and Mac on LinearPoint. Let's hope they didn't rand wolves together again.

i think that one of them is mafia and the other is town. what you choose to do with that information is up to you.

[Urist]

hey please answer this - have you played with Paopan before?

this is for everyone

I need an answer

@112
@Alison
@Belzy
@BoKnows
@c4e5g3d5
@DrWilgy
@dyachei
@Dyslexicon
@EnderWiggin
@falcon45ca
@Guillotine
@hollowkatt
@ilario
@Justplayingitcool
@KZA
@LinearPoint
@Marmot
@Master Radishes
@NotAnAxehole
@nutella
@Phil and Gloria
@Porscha
@sabie12
@Seanzie
@sig
@Sloonei
@TonyStarkPrime
@Urist

THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND MAY 100% NAIL A SCUM, PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU'VE PLAYED WITH PAOPAN BEFORE

just do the work and look it up yourself my god

[Creature]

I'll probably trust Alison and Mac on LinearPoint. Let's hope they didn't rand wolves together again.

i think that one of them is mafia and the other is town. what you choose to do with that information is up to you.

If that's the case, then it's most likely Alison

[BoKnows]

hey please answer this - have you played with Paopan before?

NO

[alexa]

hey please answer this - have you played with Paopan before?

this is for everyone

I need an answer

@112
@Alison
@Belzy
@BoKnows
@c4e5g3d5
@DrWilgy
@dyachei
@Dyslexicon
@EnderWiggin
@falcon45ca
@Guillotine
@hollowkatt
@ilario
@Justplayingitcool
@KZA
@LinearPoint
@Marmot
@Master Radishes
@NotAnAxehole
@nutella
@Phil and Gloria
@Porscha
@sabie12
@Seanzie
@sig
@Sloonei
@TonyStarkPrime
@Urist

THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND MAY 100% NAIL A SCUM, PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU'VE PLAYED WITH PAOPAN BEFORE

just do the work and look it up yourself my god

i barely can use the syndicate system it's much easier for me if people can answer me and i am literally doing the work @ing people

[Creature]

Damn was I useless with college stuff today

[Phil and Gloria]

guys have you played with paopan?

[BoKnows]

@112 @falcon45ca @KZA

What we thinking?

[Guillotine]

Alison is prolly scum

Ur probably right

Inb4 you are mac trolling me

[Guillotine]

guys have you played with paopan?

I have

[BoKnows]

Damn was I useless with college stuff today

I was. Homework can wait for another day

[Phil and Gloria]

alexa
c4
Creature
ender
falcon
hk
ilario
paopan
sabie
seanzie
urist

there are 0 wolves here

sloonei, nutella, Alison contains min 1 probably 2 wolves

linearpoint is outed mafia

at least one of these people are mafia

oh yeah who tough guy?

[LinearPoint]

Mac's entrance is unimpressive. He remains firmly in my suspect pool.

@LinearPoint What is your opinion on my Creature case? You've been very absorbed with the alexa/nutella stuff. I'd like your view on other parts of the game.

OK, lets start from the top and break this down then.

Spoiler: show

Here is my case on Creature.

All of Creature's posts so far can be divided into one of three categories: useless fluff, attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons, and "flame fanning".

Category 1: Useless Fluff

Spoiler: show

Why does the game always start when I'm the most low energy?

Wow this got intense so quick

Is this game by any chance bastard? I didn't check before joining

Who is Neeko?

Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games

I think you are.

I'm not mafia and this makes your push on me even more annoying

These posts go beyond the usual RVS horsing around (although we are well out of RVS now). These are posts that show a clear lack of interest in the progression of the game. His questions are flat, shallow, and in many cases could have been easily answered by glancing at the OP. He is more interested in looking like he is around and engaging with the game than actually being around and engaging with the game. He had a ripe opportunity to engage with me about my push on him, and he responded by going "I'm not mafia, I'm annoyed now, go away". I don't get the sense that he cares whether or not I am town misreading him or scum trying to get him killed, and this is especially concerning because in my last scum game I tried to get him killed early on.

First thought is that fluff posts in RVS are pretty much always NAI. There is a pretty common thread in the posts that suggests a person who just doesn't want to play meaning they got a role they disliked. This I don't really see as Mafia and is more likely a 3rd Party who doesn't need to worry about screwing over their team or a player who is Town and just got a bad role. You have a point about the backoff "i'm not Mafia" line, but that alone I wouldn't consider enough to warrant saying Creature is Mafia especially when I think the lack of interest in the game would be unlikely to come from Mafia.

Category 2: Attempting to derpclear himself for silly reasons

Spoiler: show

I want the guilty on nutella to be legit

Is soup kill a thing?

Would much rather just be mafia in bastard games

Wait I think the existence of a mafia captain should almost clear me from ever being picked as mafia this game

Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first.

If I was mafia captain I would choose players tbh even if it is not mechanically optimal. I would much rather have an enjoyable team to play with.

I know I'd never be picked by the mafia captain if they chose players over roles

Creature makes an excessive number of posts attempting to insinuate that he is town, or in some way get people to "angleshoot" him as being town due to his lack of knowledge about the game mechanics or the inner workings of the mafia ("is there a soup kill?"). But a town Creature who genuinely wanted to know would just check the OP; asking in thread serves no purpose except to try to get people to falsely read him as town. He is aware that he struggles to gain the trust of the town when he is mafia, and he is cheaply attempting to earn this towncred through derptells and "townslips".

Take note that he is trying to convince the game repeatedly that the mafia captain chose players rather than roles. If he is town, he has no reason to believe that the mafia captain chose players over roles. I, personally, have reason to believe that the mafia captain chose roles. I think nutella is much townier than her scum self would be, and as I have argued, a town nutella implies a town Alexa. I know I am town, and I do not think a mafia captain who picked players would pass over both me and Alexa. So this attempt to convince the town - with no evidence whatsoever - that the mafia captain picked players reeks of agenda-pushing to me.

Finally, I want to highlight this line: "Unless you want to argue that I'm 3p here? But would be better to seek for the seven mafia first." Nobody has accused him of being 3P. It comes completely out of the blue, and reads almost as though he is self-aware of his own scumminess and is trying to hang a lampshade of it. I don't think it's a line that would flow naturally from a townie's mouth.

This makes sense. But a lot of people right now are pushing their own opinions on what the Captain chose. Neeko does believe some Mafia will be trying to push the opposite of their choice, but right now everyone is guilty of doing so. It's also hard to tell real derptells from fake derptells. To Neeko this reads more of a 3rd Party than Mafia overall. Neeko did point out when Creature made the post about being a 3rd Party that they seem like a 3rd Party with that post, but right now 3rd Party is just not a big concern imo. Creature also doesn't seem to be distancing from anyone or buddying with anyone so Mafia seems a bit unlikely.

Category 3: Flame Fanning

Spoiler: show

lol if nutella is salty alexa caught her n0

lol if the alexa/nutella w/w theory is right

early take is that Seanzie is probably wolfing imo

Thought I was the only one seeing it

LinearPoint has been accused of fanning the flames. I think Creature is even more guilty of this sin. In his ISO of 19 posts (at the time I wrote this case), Creature utters provocative lines, egging on the suspicions of townies towards each other, three separate times. They are quoted in the spoilers above. Note that he first eggs on the "Alexa has a red check on nutella" narrative, then switches to "Alexa and nutella are wolves together". These narratives are contradictory. Creature does not have an opinion of his own; he just encourages whatever happens to be the prevailing opinion or thread sentiment at the time. This is strongly opportunistic, and this opportunism is exemplified even further by his agreement with 112 that Seanzie is wolfing. How is Seanzie being wolfy? Why has he not brought up this scumread on Seanzie before, if he thought he was the only one seeing it? In fact, if he thinks Seanzie is a wolf and fooling everyone except him, why would he keep quiet about it until someone else brings it up, at which point he eagerly jumps on the bandwagon? Answer: because he is nakedly taking advantage of 112's suspicion to push Seanzie.

At no point does he contribute to the conversation. He does not add evidence to support any narrative. He does not refute the evidence or points that others have brought up. He does not, in fact, engage with the theories and accusations that have been thrown around the thread. He merely fuels the fire with provocative one-liners and moves on without explaining them.

OK, admittedly was a bit jaded being falsely accused fanning the flames for jumping to conclusions with Alexa v Nutella to just write off this part, so Neeko will give it a serious read.
A lot of this makes sense for Creature being scum, so Neeko can see where you are coming from. It's not really giving reads and more a lot of just agreeing with hot takes which are shots in the dark from townies trying to scum hunt.

Neeko'll also provide another look into Creature since she had to review his posts for this and might as well.

overall they continued a lot of what you (Alison) pointed out.

Spoiler: show

Is Scotty a good wolf?

This one is another just questioning someone's credibility by probbing others to look into their meta.

Can we just kill someone like guillotine d1 pls

Why aren’t you voting him then?

i forgot i had Sloonei in my gut pool of maf

Mafia:
Sloonei
LinearPoint
Paopon
Guillotine

that is probably 0/4 or 1/4 based on my early game accuracy but #yolo

I think only Sloonei and Paopan can be wolves here aorn

why?

ftr i am least confident on guillo here but i think linear is probably a wolf

LinearPoint is at that limbo where I think their actions are more likely to come from town but lots of players are saying they're wolf and I'm afraid of being the wrong one here

This personally doesn't feel right. A lot of people have given varying reasons for scum reading Neeko, while Neeko disagrees that any of them are remotely grounded in reality, having no opinion seems a bit odd. Neeko doesn't really like in gneeral when people don't read her as it reads like someone trying to balance between if they want to go for the easy wagon or avoid it with the knowledge it'll not be a red flip.

Is there a red on nutella too? I really did miss a lot.

alexa seems to have info on nutella's role that seems wolf-indicative for the latter but not conclusive.

This is basically just echoing Neeko's read on the Alexa V Nutella, but also not commiting to either side, probably after seeing the backlash Neeko got for the opinion that Alexa V Nutella was Mafia.

Also I maintain being provocative is something I do as town to the feel over players' alignment based on their responses. Looks like unnecessary attention for me to do as wolf.

Mmm defense of “I do this as town” no bueno

It's just that the "fanning the flames" thing can just be town being provocative just like this case. I honestly felt the same about DrWilgy last game when they started asking me useless questions and bugging me into responding them which I thought was wolfy but in reality they were being provocative.

Lastly, this is just blatantly saying they were trying to fan the flames and get people to scum read others without doing so themselves.

Neeko will say she doesn't like Creature. You can read the spoiler for quotes and thoughts on quotes.
Create is probably either a 3rd party who doesn't have partners to spew, or is mafia actively avoiding forming reads on any player to avoid spewing.

[Phil and Gloria]

Alison is prolly scum

Ur probably right

Inb4 you are mac trolling me

[nutella]

112 had a really spot on assessment of you that brought to words everything I was thinking about you, even if I’m misreading you and ur actually town I don’t think a scum would take this approach on you

C4 has a snarky critical vibe, doesn’t feel like they’re playing to be townread and the evaluations I’ve seen from him so far show a good depth of thought that i haven’t seen him replicate as scum yet outside of when he’s bussing. they had that one post we both liked as well

Creature is a hard one to explain. I just think he’s lhf bait, I think the way he’s handled your push is towny, he isn’t being appealy or anything and the way he’s assessed your push is towny. His insistence that he things he’s gonna be a universal tr by eod is towny since last time I saw him as a wolf he got outed and buried d1 as one of the best roles meanwhile everytime I’ve seen him town he’s been a universal tr. so I think that confidence is town for him

Alexa is too derpy and all over the place to be scum. The way she handled her claim was way too over eager and messy in a way that’s towny for specifically her.

How do you think Creature would handle this push by me if he was mafia? (Keeping in mind he has 6 teammates that could potentially coach him?)

I think the rest of your explanations are okay. 112's read is wrong, but you're just saying it's a mindmeld, so sure. I found myself agreeing with that evaluation of C4. I am townreading Alexa for different reasons but I don't think townreading her for her handling of her claim is unreasonable at all.

Some mixture of flailing and appealing like when he got cases by ladd

Show me where tf he's doing anything besides "flailing and appealing"

All his posts are empty excuses

[112]

hey please answer this - have you played with Paopan before?

this is for everyone

I need an answer

@112
@Alison
@Belzy
@BoKnows
@c4e5g3d5
@DrWilgy
@dyachei
@Dyslexicon
@EnderWiggin
@falcon45ca
@Guillotine
@hollowkatt
@ilario
@Justplayingitcool
@KZA
@LinearPoint
@Marmot
@Master Radishes
@NotAnAxehole
@nutella
@Phil and Gloria
@Porscha
@sabie12
@Seanzie
@sig
@Sloonei
@TonyStarkPrime
@Urist

THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND MAY 100% NAIL A SCUM, PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU'VE PLAYED WITH PAOPAN BEFORE

i don't think so

[112]

@112 @falcon45ca @KZA

What we thinking?

i don't know if i'm allowed to post it here...

[Phil and Gloria]

@nutella wot alignment is sloonei?

[sabie12]

Why so focused on paopan? My phone keeps wanting that to be propane. I don't even remember if I've ever played with them. Trying to keep up. I don't remember ever seeing a role that can get a check on someone day 1 is that a thing even? I know people like to randomly say that for funzies

[112]

i'm usually able to interpret village nute really quickly btw and i'm not getting the interpretation here yet

[Paopan]

Yeah... Alexa is scum

[Guillotine]

Paopan is the son of gavial and NotAnAxehole with all their features on steroids.

[BoKnows]

@112 @falcon45ca @KZA

What we thinking?

i don't know if i'm allowed to post it here...

Best place in town! Bartenders are amiable and the dj plays a different genre of music from AC/DC to House & Hip-Hop, dancers are good on the pole will be back for some more!!!

[Paopan]

[VOTE: Alexa] aubergine

[Creature]

Paopan is the son of gavial and NotAnAxehole with all their features on steroids.

I thought it was their profile picture making them seem disturbing

[TonyStarkPrime]

I mean I think probably nutella is not town and is trying to get creature chopped and therefore we can’t trust what nutella says (?)

Exactly my thoughts

Actually

Wait I just voted you.

Wait

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine

Nutella isn’t someone we chop on D1, tho, right? Feel like she’s a definite cheat code if she’s town. Or a festering boil if she’s not. But we can live with a boil right?

Yeah IDK what I’m doing

[Guillotine]

A bit late to the party no?
And Neeko cares not for the name of Alexa's role.
Alexa said they peaked Nutella's role was not one that would be Town and Nutella confirmed that.
That's all that matters, and that is a rolecop which is likely Mafia.

how do you arrive at that conclusion?

OK Neeko may have jumped to conclusions assuming Alexa was a Mafia Rolecop.
Neeko has since realized there may be a few other more townie roles they could be.
Still though Neeko doesn't like the vibe, but whatever not like anyone cares.

that's fine to not like the vibe I just don't understand how you're so hung up on the role itself. Like alexa straight up said it's not RC and straight up said her info may not be alignment indicative. Whether or not you buy into that is up to you, but your dogged pursuit of it has me thinking "Linear is a wolf and latched onto this as a thing they can push" instead of "Linear is town and trying to understand how alexa says the things she says, and how nutella replies the way they did"

i've played with linear before and they were nothing like this (as V/V... or i was 3P idr but i was playing like V and they were V)

which is why i think their lack of logic irt this makes them a wolf

I would not characterize LP as lacking logic. Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

I think their logic is flawed, but it is there.

the whole "alexa/nutella W/W" argument they've been expressing does not make any sense to me if you read our interactions. why do i out a red on my partner then go back on it and say it's because i thought their role was mafia? and nutella clearly was shook in reaction to me/thought i was a wolf at first so the whole thing/jump does not make sense for me from a villager fully reading the game.

Because i claimed vig with the intent to shoot her?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I mean I think probably nutella is not town and is trying to get creature chopped and therefore we can’t trust what nutella says (?)

but creature hasn't done anything? so why go ham and why blame nutella and not alison?

Alison’s allowed to do that Nutella will be townier if I keep denying it

[Creature]

@alexa

This is Paopan's only two games in this site:

viewtopic.php?t=2232
viewtopic.php?t=2248

Also clearly not Gavial

[alexa]

Paopan has literally played with me before 1 time with i was 3P and left the game early. I'm focused on them because I think they may be outed wolf. They said they would draft me for a scum team/expected me to be drafted for a scum team when we've never seriously played before

@Paopan literally all i want is an explanation for this? obviously i want to find you if you are town but it makes no sense to me

[TonyStarkPrime]

hey please answer this - have you played with Paopan before?

this is for everyone

I need an answer

@112
@Alison
@Belzy
@BoKnows
@c4e5g3d5
@DrWilgy
@dyachei
@Dyslexicon
@EnderWiggin
@falcon45ca
@Guillotine
@hollowkatt
@ilario
@Justplayingitcool
@KZA
@LinearPoint
@Marmot
@Master Radishes
@NotAnAxehole
@nutella
@Phil and Gloria
@Porscha
@sabie12
@Seanzie
@sig
@Sloonei
@TonyStarkPrime
@Urist

THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND MAY 100% NAIL A SCUM, PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU'VE PLAYED WITH PAOPAN BEFORE

No pls stop

[TonyStarkPrime]

I mean I think probably nutella is not town and is trying to get creature chopped and therefore we can’t trust what nutella says (?)

Thank you very cool

Creature could improve but I really felt like Alison simply caught him

Ok fine I believe you (I do not)

[nutella]

Mac if you tunnel LP I will townread you.

this reminds me of your wolf game we just lost tbh

This is creature's first townie post but it's borderline

[TonyStarkPrime]

Creature’s meta has come a long way but he’s still like an easier read than nutella imo and I’m still not seeing it

[nutella]

i don't know why but sloonei's posts are really resonating with me right now. it's like he's in my head.

Tell me Jeremy-chan, do you like salad

[alexa]

@alexa

This is Paopan's only two games in this site:

viewtopic.php?t=2232
viewtopic.php?t=2248

Also clearly not Gavial

OK SO THEM MAKING WHATEVER POST THEY MADE MAKES 0 SENSE WHATSOEVER UNLESS THEYRE IN A SCUM CHAT TALKING ABOUT IT

THIS ONE: viewtopic.php?p=890859#p890859

LIKE HOW THE HECK DO YOU GET TO THIS IS YOURE NOT A WOLF AND ITS BEING DISCUSSED AND YOU DONT KNOW ME? it makes 0 sense whatsoever to me and this is a huge part of why

[TonyStarkPrime]

@alexa

This is Paopan's only two games in this site:

viewtopic.php?t=2232
viewtopic.php?t=2248

Also clearly not Gavial

TBH I thought it was a gav alt playing in his own game

[Sloonei]

I have never played mafia before.

[Creature]

@alexa

This is Paopan's only two games in this site:

viewtopic.php?t=2232
viewtopic.php?t=2248

Also clearly not Gavial

Host: Gavial

NotAnAxehole
DrWilgy
Ruri
MafiaMenace
falcon45ca
Jackofhearts2005
LinearPoint
Michelle
LimeCoke
Marmot
Paopan
MightyQ
Scotty
sig
MacDougall
Alexa
Son of Anarch

Host: Alison

sig
MacDougall
Lime Coke
Paopan
CRichard
Miss Carousel
DrWilgy
falcon45ca
Gavial
Porscha
MightyQ

[Sloonei]

(i think i went as far as i could in urist’s iso while still resembling sense-making)

[Creature]

@alexa

This is Paopan's only two games in this site:

viewtopic.php?t=2232
viewtopic.php?t=2248

Also clearly not Gavial

OK SO THEM MAKING WHATEVER POST THEY MADE MAKES 0 SENSE WHATSOEVER UNLESS THEYRE IN A SCUM CHAT TALKING ABOUT IT

THIS ONE: viewtopic.php?p=890859#p890859

LIKE HOW THE HECK DO YOU GET TO THIS IS YOURE NOT A WOLF AND ITS BEING DISCUSSED AND YOU DONT KNOW ME? it makes 0 sense whatsoever to me and this is a huge part of why

You played one game with them, no?